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It struck me when making some comments in another topic that we don't really have a single topic devoted to stamp forgeries

My intent here is for members to list reference websites that provide this information to members and that this topic should be used to ask other members whatever questions you want on those "dodgies" lurking in your collection or on something you are about to buy that just doesn't look right.

Remember that many of our members are experts in their collecting fields or have access to reference books or material that aren't widely available.

I'll kick the topic off with some reference websites I've found:

FFE Journal (click "Search articles" tab) - http://www.ffejournal.com/index.php

Comparative Stamp Forgery Identification Site - http://www.geocities.com/claghorn1p/

Stamp Forgery Guide - http://www.filatelia.fi/forglinks/index.html


Now show us the lurker's you have in your collection

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Tony

I made a lot of money about 20 years ago selling the then current GB machin letter rate postal forgeries. A rare thing from the UK - only a few fakes have ever been made there - best known being the 1/- "Stock Exchange" ones of the 1880s.

Some spivs had made these, and walked around small newsagents and corner shops saying: "psst want to buy a load of current stamps cheap that fell off the back of a truck" type offers. Of course they sold heaps -- all forged.

A UK dealer bought a few 100 from an Indian newsagent friend, but was nervous about UK Police clobbering him if he offered them, so he asked me to sell them.

He paid for MY ads in the UK stamp magazines to offer them. As a non UK resident, no offence for me to sell them as collectibles at £25 each or whatever they cost back then, and I sold them all. Most went to the UK.

I think this block is all I have left of them now.

WOW! They are so good. How can you tell they are forgeries?

With the GB Machins the most obvious way is the perfs which are a wider guage than the genuines.

Are any of these for sale now Glen?

Tony

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If no one else collects Heligoland or UPU how come I have to pay so much ?????

Tony .. no just that block 4 fakes left, and the genuine blocks 6 as per photo. SG lists and notes the forgeries and from 1993. It is priced $A200 the lot .. unusual piece these days I'd guess.

The perforations are different, the print quality is very poor, there is no phosphor, the edges are rough because the paper quality is poor.... where shall I stop?!

Used on cover are, in my view, even more attractive than mint blocks, and they are not uncommon. I have one on piece. I also have the 2nd class blue 'forgery' used on cover (I'll find it sometime) and it is much better - could almost be a trial print from Questa but nobody has ever got to the truth.

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Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics GB stamps info: http://www.norphil.co.uk - also /catalog for our ecommerce site, blog.norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk and Ian_norvic on twitter

Perfs are line on the forgery, but comb on the real thing - the "weak" corners of the stamp are the giveaway.

You're good Norvic, I couldn't see that from the block, they looked good to me

If I bought them to stick on an envelope it wouldn't have dawned on me they were fake, as I suppose many didn't

Hong Kong Forgeries made to deceive the collector have come a long way since the Spiro forgeries,

from ebay:

Mod - Dead link deleted

I have these below as reference material,

Mod - Dead link deleted

Kiungchow CDS & "D28" Postal usage of the 12c on $10 Rose Revenue / FORGED

Swatow "S2" used on 96c 1863 cc wmk / FORGED

French Shanghai "5104" used on 96c 1863 cc wmk / FORGED

If these were real, as a group £20,000 easy.

Very dangerous.

An interesting point, guess what the catalogue value of these three woulod be for unused as a group?

.

Just as a by the way and sorry if it is not quite the topic.

Many years ago, now, about the time that colour printers had become avaialble, but when they were still expensive and not many people had one in their home; a friend of mine, who did have a co,our printer, just for fun and not for fraudlulent purposes, photocopied a sheet of first class stamps.

At a glance you could see no real difference.

He then psoted a letter to himself and it went through the postal system and was delivered to him. it had a very slight tear in it which looked as though it had been examined but then was allowed to continue on its journey!

(My son put a £20 note into our printer/copier recently and it came up on the computer screen that it was illegal to copy money)

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Bonfiregirl
I'll always remember the fifth of November

Funny story. I tried to scan these superb Unc UK notes below a few times to list them for sale here last year, and my scanner stopped processing half way through -

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5482

I got annoyed, fiddled, cursed, and even re-installed the scanner software. There was no message .. it just stopped scanning at around mid point.

No go.

THEN I scanned another hagner of stamps to see if SIZE of Hagners was the issue - and no problem.

It is the SECURITY metal logos on these notes that STOPS you scanning them! Took at LEAST an hour to work out the isuse.

==========

Shown here is a Spiro forgery of the 2 shilling Heligoland (Left) and next to it a reprint of the same stamp.


Tony

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If no one else collects Heligoland or UPU how come I have to pay so much ?????

Side by side the difference is quite clear - great examples Tony

2d George V Postal forgery, postally used. Wrongly perforated on unwatermarked paper, this was produced (in 1932, along with 2d bridge) to defraud the Post Office when sending out bogus lottery tickets.

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Philatelic Forgeries: Germany, Soviet Zone Currency Reform 1948.

There were 1,900 different overprints applied at 1,100 different Post Offices in the Soviet Zone over a 10 day period in June/July 1948.

These were done in reaction to the replacement of the Reichsmark with the Deutschmark in the Western Zones - the Russians introduced the "Ostmark" (more correctly Mark Deutsche Notenbank - "MDN") and used these overprints as a provisional measure to denote the new currency until more "formal" issues could be produced.

I've just bought these from Glen, and not received yet, so I'm going purely off the scans here...

On appearance, I believe that the "3 Berlin 7" set are forgeries - the ink is too dark and there is only a "single" overprint on each stamp - normally one would expect to see the "7" of the next stamp on this one, for example.

The "27 Gaschwitz" ones look OK - paler ink, and the "tz" overlaps on a few values.

Of the 5 loose stamps, I'd be suspicious of the "37 Crivitz" one (that's a widely-forged overprint), but the others look OK.

Of course, when I've actually examined them I may change my view on any or all of the above...

The reason for forgeries - the overprints are catalogued much more highly than the unoverprinted issue, hence were widely forged.

The method - some were done using the original equipment; some were completely fabricated with the wrong typeface etc. A giveaway is that if a single stamp was overprinted (not a block), there is only ever a single strike; if a block or full sheet were done, there is overlapping of the ends of the overprint on adjacent stamps (which the forgers would not normally bother with...).

And I hasten to add Gav's "Bezerks" above were described by me as the Berlin set being most likely faked, (and priced by me accordingly!) as Michel indicates that is usually the case.

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=11471&p=460170#p460170

Sorry Glen, I should have made that clear in my posting above - sold and bought with that understanding

Here's a genuine one on cover:



Handstamped overprint "41 Crimmitschau". The stamp is "isolated" by pencil from the postmark, dated 12 July 1948 - 2 days after the stamps ceased to be valid. "Nachgebuhr" mark and large pencil "36" indicates postage due of 36pfg (correct rate + 50% penalty charge).

Hi all,

i have these Nevis stamps which are forgeries (i have included what i believe are originals stamp 3 and 5 for comparison please excuse the condition rather reflects my limited Nevis collection!)

As always if anybody has more info or knows the forger i appreciate the information

Lundy

Hi,

i've these Formosa forgeries:



Roberto.

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Collecting PR China, Israel & South Vietnam.

These arrived yesterday (thanks for quick turnround, Glen).

A close inspection shows our initial diagnosis was correct - the "27 Gaschwitz" and four of the five "loose" stamps are AOK.

The "3 Berlin 7" are definitely fake overprints - added to the other issues, the overprint is only about 75% of the size it should be when I compare to the templates in my book.

The "37 Crivitz" is a better effort, but I'm still treating it as a forgery because they nearly always are!!!

Gav . . yes your tip elsewhere that the "27 Gaschwitz" looked OK from scan, as they were blurry and ink would have oozed through the back seems a good "quick test" way to verify these.

Sure glad I only see these things once in a blue moon!

Forged/Facsimile 2d W.A. Imperf Swan.



(I need a better scanner)

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We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

A 2d Blue would fool no-one of course as issued stamp was orange, but the exact same fake exists in the 1d black and looks VERY dangerous.

The square bottomed U is about the most obvious way to detect them.

For a fun skill test on fake WA swans add your vote to this:

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11115&start=0

Glen

OK - here is a selection of Spiro's work in WA Swan stamps

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If no one else collects Heligoland or UPU how come I have to pay so much ?????

^ these are very attractive in their own right. The Spiros are actually more valuable than the real things, aren't they?!

NEVER. Not from any country AFAIK.

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.
Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

Early forgeries from Brazil, set of January 1, 1850. These are
not the thick-paper reprints of 1910.

And I suppose this belongs in this thread too.

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If no one else collects Heligoland or UPU how come I have to pay so much ?????

True .. the easy way to tell the Spiro (small photo) is the square U at base whereas on the genuine it is round -






This scammer on ebay : howsthat2194 is running an auction right now with a 1d Black Swan SPIRO forgery (photo above) that he withdrew last week, after he was told it was a Spiro.

He has just listed it again

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/1850-WA-Black-1d-Swan-with-4-Clear-Margins-VFU_W0QQitemZ330377355195

As "NOT a Spiro as all Spiros have large margins". Gee really?
,
All he has listed up for sale right now are also forgeries. Do NOT contact the seller at all, as you are wasting your time, and he thinks all this is a great big fun game.

Same Guy who has been banned by ebay under [b]DOZENS [/b]of different handles selling the same forgeries.

All his auctions are "Private auctions" a near GUARANTEE all stamps in them are forged . .there is no reason to hide ID's of buyers unless you are selling fakes.

http://shop.ebay.com.au/howsthat2194/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340



Can a few folks with ebay accounts please draw this fakery to ebay's attention via the link below so they check into this account and have it too shut down?

Thanks.

===============

As noted by others - ebay now have set up a fast new portal to report suspected sellers of forged stamps at - http://aitaex.notlong.com - there is space for 10,000 characters in your reply, so all the relevant info can be added. Unlike most ebay complaint forms that frustratingly allow 100 characters etc.


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http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-stamps.html

Selling of Stamps

eBay does not permit the sale of stamps that are fraudulent or improperly described. Sellers who knowingly fail to disclose information about the authenticity of a stamp, alterations to the stamp, or other information that might have a material impact on the stamp's value may be reported to the American Philatelic Society.

If the stamp is a forgery, fake, reproduction or facsimile:

it must be clearly and indelibly marked as such

a clear image of this mark must be included

it must be clearly stated in the title and/or description

If unsure of the origin or authenticity of the stamp, please state this clearly in the listing. Do not sell an item "As Is" regarding its authenticity.

Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:

Listing cancellation

Limits on account privileges

Account suspension

Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings

Loss of PowerSeller status

---------------------

As well as this similar but different worded rule

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http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/currstamps.html

Counterfeit Currency and Stamps

All forged stamps, facsimiles, and reproductions may be listed but need to be clearly and indelibly marked as such on either the front or back of the stamp. See "Additional Information" for more details.

Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:

Listing cancellation

Limits on account privileges

Account suspension

Forfeit of ebay fees on cancelled listings

Loss of PowerSeller status

--------------------

Any seller on ebay listing stamps or overprints or perfins that are forged must indelibly mark them thus on front and/or back.

Offering them without such markings can see the sellers removed in hours, if reported citing the above two VERY clear ebay policies.

Mention these two rules when you report them, and the ebay staffer can cancel accounts on the spot, citing these great new rules.

* * * *

I was talking to somebody the other day who - so his story goes - used to work for Royal Mail.

The 24p forgeries were seen quite often. Then a company delivered a large mailing to the sorting office and the stamps were all forgeries. Revenue Protection were alerted and asked the company where they got the stamps. They followed this up with a visit to North London and went off to buy some from the seller. "How many do you want?" - and the back room was piled high with boxes of them!

The same person told me how some of the 1st class golds from the West Midlands were allegedly traced. Apparently a bloke was selling them in a pub - where a postal worker Special Constable - was drinking! He alerted the police who came along and made the arrest. But the bloke selling them had stolen the van (not knowing that it was full of stamps) which had not - of course - been reported stolen. The police visited the address at which it was registered, and found large stocks of stamps there.

Now other people have told me that the stamps originated in Eastern Europe and were (die-cut) perforated there, whilst another story has it that they were perforated on the night shift at the Walsall Security Print works (involved no loss of secure stocks as the 'stamps' were taken in and out).

How much truth there is, and how much urban myth, I don't know. I do know that there are forged stamps around today, still.

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Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics GB stamps info: http://www.norphil.co.uk - also /catalog for our ecommerce site, blog.norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk and Ian_norvic on twitter

Here is a web link to a site that deals with United States postal counterfeits:
http://www.stampsjoann.net/Counterfeit/Counterfeit-main.html

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Regards, Jay

I was interested in the comments about the Bezirk handstamps. I bought a collection of East Germany a little while ago and there were also three sheets of stamps with these handstamps. They are illustrated below and I would be interested in opinions on whether they are genuine or forgeries.













Richard

A little off topic ,but worth a mention here,
At yesterdays GOMC meeting Old Harry brought along 3 Albums full of banknotes all from China,
Would have been about 300 all different,,we all looked at them and discussed the best looking ones,and the different number of Banks,that existed,etc etc .
after everyone had seen them.Harry announced that they were ALL FORGERIES

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Nunawading Stamp Fair
Last Sunday of Every Month - Jaycees Hall Silver Grove - Nunawading.

Here I have a genuine "Lauesen" forgery:

I think it is the rare "Chicago Essay".
Seriously, if you placed it on Ebay as some sort of newly discovered essay, you might get a few bucks for it!

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Regards, Jay

Here are some forgeries that I would like to share:

Theresienstadt forgery.


NDH Croatia Storm Division Sheet forgery:


Miscellaneous Forgeries. Some may be Spiros and Fourniers. I don't exactly know for sure.



The one on the left was used to defraud the post office. This is an imperforate example.


Hope you enjoy them!

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Regards, Jay

I see with the 1d Black Swan that the ebay image in his listing can not be enlarged, making impossible to have a good look at the stamp. Similarly the N.Z. 'Stars' Overprint and the 1 Shilling Lyre OS can not be enlarged.

The 1 Shilling Lyre looks a particularly bad overprint and the 2 of the 2d overprint looks weak.

I love his comment about Spiro forgeries having large margins. It would appear he does not own a pair of scissors or scalpel to trim down the margins to make it look better.

Does this seller have something to hide. Take a look and form your own opinion.

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We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

Forged Nebraska overprint on left. Genuine on right

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Regards, Jay

Jay, I've always been amazed; forgers never seem to
bother with getting a genuine copy to see if their work(s)
look anything like the original.

I guess Sperati was the "accurate" forger.

I think Sperati also had the passion of an artist from what I can gather.

I think some forgers realize(d) the ignorance of the collector, and sometimes the dealer. Believe it or not, the Theresienstadt stamp was purchased by a stamp dealer for top dollar. I don't think he was too familiar with that issue. Once it was proved to be a fake, I picked it up for $5. The forged Croatian sheet is easier to spot.

The postal forgery of the 3¢ Jefferson were well executed. I have seen postally used examples on cover and they are difficult to spot.

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Regards, Jay

Just about every famous early forger had a go at this one. But I think this example is a forged cancel applied to a 1894 official reprint. Anyone got a captive expert that can give an opinion?

On the Austrian Zeitungsmarken, Michel-Spezial* describes
Types I, II, and IIa. This stamp is a mish-mash of Types
II and IIa, whereas all the ND (neudrucke) were Type I.

Type I is characterized by a broken uneven font for the
word Zeitungs, with the "i" slanted, not at all like the font
on this copy; its margins also look far too large.

I agree the cancel does not look right either.

There is only one official reprint of the 30 Kr. (rose),
Michel #8ND.

*Österreich 1997

The Austria Netto Specialised list these official reprints for 30Kr pink mercury:

1886 - violetpink
1887 - darkvioletpink
1894 - lightvioletpink
1904 first printing - brownypink
1904 second printing - lilacpink

but as you say, it could also be a complete forgery rather than a reprint with forged cancel. The cancel isn't one of Fournier's or Sperati's so that narrows the field a bit. Maybe it's a Friedl forgery?

Some guy had this on ebay. Ands he reckons it's not a forged overprint.

Here's my paltry selection.... can anybody help me identify which forger is responsible for which stamp, as my knowledge here is spartan, to say the least... the top row are all on paper, as well as the 6d swan repro, and the rest are on thick card. Many thanks for your help.

Wonder why Michel doesn't recognize all those varieties
of ND?

Well actually, my Michel Oesterreich Spezial does list them all at the "back of the book".

Want a scan of that part?

Jay, in the scan below that you posted there's an Orange Free State stamp. I'm interested to know how you determine it's a fake? OFS is one of the territories I collect and was wondering what I should look out for?


Thanks for any help.
John

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In search of the Kingdom of the Schwaneberger Albums....

Italian states from an old stockbook, def fakes.