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Hello Guys.

I had a question with regards to an exit strategy.

When it is all said and done, what do you guys plan or do you guys plan on what will happen with your collections?

Does your family continue the collection or do they sell it off?

Do you guys inform or educate them on what you have?

Cheers!

My will has explicit instructions as to what to do with my collection. None of the kids are interested in collecting at all, and think that my obsession with bits of paper is a bit crazy. They are probably right.

My view is that we have a hoarders fixation (ever see the show?) who were fortunate enough to limit our hoarding to small pieces of paper and not everything that ever entered the house.

Anybody who has watched Hoarders will know exactly what I mean,

Norm

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Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

Leaving clear instructions in your will would be imperative, otherwise,

at best your family will call in a dealer such as Glen who knows their stuff' and will give a fair price;

at worst they'll chuck anything that looks like a stamp randomly in a box/suitcase and trundle it to the local estate clearance auctioneer or second-hand shop and get a pittance for the collection

(at very worst they'll give it away to a charity shop; or at extreme worst they'll bin everything, though they know you've been spending money on the collection so that last is unlikely, often people take the other tack and think they're sitting on a goldmine).

Even with the 'best' scenario, they might still throw everything in a box randomly. A dealer won't sit and sort out the mess, they'll give it a glance-over to get a 'sense' of the overall value. Maybe a rarity on a stockcard was tossed by your family into your 'junk box of duplicates' and gets overlooked in the dealer's assessment.

On the other hand you can pay for a full valuation, where the dealer goes through everything page by page, but that can be pricey, and people often balk at the idea of having to pay to sell something.

I know nobody in my family is interested in my collection, and don't want to see ie. covers that cost a few hundred dollars each end up in a box lot on eBay.

_________________
Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

Roughly half of all Australians die intestate. That is, they die without leaving a valid, Legal Will.

I have no doubt similar figures apply to British and American readers etc. Naturally, none of us wishes to die unexpectedly - but we are all mortal, and accidents happen every day.

Less than 50% of Australians prepare a legal Will, often in the mistaken belief that all their worldly goods and chattels will automatically go to their next of kin.

Without a Will, the Government may levy death duties and the Government Public Trustee also decides on the distribution of the assets.

Below is a small Part of an article I wrote on this matter that I urge ALL members to read in full -

http://www.glenstephens.com/sndecember03.html

====================

Often a collector will spend many thousands of hours over a lifetime buying, mounting, studying, sorting and enjoying their stamps.

It really does seem odd to me that they can't bother taking just an hour of this time to briefly outline instructions for their eventual disposal.

EVERY large dealer anywhere in the world can tell you stories of buying material 'for a song' from a bric-a-brac type dealer, when they in fact have supplied a good part of it themselves, at their normal retail prices.

Why not take some time this winter to think a little about your own situation, and ask 'what will happen to my stamps if I pass away unexpectedly?'

I'm darn sure no-one reading this would enjoy the thought of a lifetime of collecting being 'given away' to a local second hand dealer simply because your family has no idea of a reliable person or firm to approach.

In my long experience 95% of collectors are MALE, and they often advise their families, and wife in particular, that stamps are a low cost pastime, with little or no "real" money ever being spend on them.

These same clients quietly spend $1000's a year with me, and goodness knows what with other dealers and auctions.

The number of orders I ship Registered mail to business addresses, and get paid by business credit cards for this precise reason, would astound many readers!

I'm just as often paid in 'cash' via Money Order or bank transfer using cash, for the same reasons.

The buyers go to great pains to ensure the 'good lady' doesn't realise that each month a $250 CTO 5/- Sydney Harbour Bridge, or a 1988 Year album, set of 1994 P.N.G. overprints, or a 'Penny Black' etc, is being quietly purchased.

I'm certain EVERY large dealer and Auction house in the world will have many clients doing precisely the same thing.

This is WHY absurdly low 'bric-a-brac Man' offers are frequently accepted by widows and families. 'George did say he never spent any money on them, so I suppose $200 is a fair enough offer' scenario.

For a lifetime they have heard George stress: 'the stamps are of little value', or: 'I only collect the cheap ones, for the fun of it' etc.

LEAVE INSTRUCTIONS:

In view of the above, please give some serious thought to leaving a precise note among your personal papers, or with your Solicitor, or better still in your Will.

Simply advise precisely how you wish your material disposed of in the event of your death.

If you are lazy, why not at least tear out this page, and leave that with your papers, which will serve as a warning to the family not to accept the local second-hand dealer's offer at least!

Either way, you owe it to your family to do something positive. Often the dealer or Auction house from whom you mostly purchase will be precisely aware of the special value of any unusual or specialist items you have.

Often your wife or husband will have met or spoken to your most usual suppliers, which makes the process a lot easier after a bereavement, rather than dealing with a totally unknown person or firm selected from the local Yellow Pages or whatever.

etc , etc

I am annoyed Channel 9 did not pay me royalties after their crew invaded my place for 6 hours.

However, the place is pristine now -

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=3636

I too believe, it is very important to have an exit-plan.
My children and grand children have no interest in Pop's fetish with perforated useless labels
My wife will be ( I think) happy to convert my "holy room" into a additional shoe and handbag storage chamber
Gaby might call Glen and will get some cash.....and for that, he most likely can take my SCHNAPS collection with him as well ......as a bonus

Me think....I make a will !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just had a read of the newest "Pelican Itch" Budgewoi Edition March 2011
and came across this:




So there you go, make sure where your collection goes ..........while you can!Peter

Probably they only planned to stay 1 hour, but then they got lost inside and it took 5 hours to find the front door again.

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

Mine will be left to my Son, which he will then take and sell for a new Nintendo game.....

_________________
"Life is a tough Teacher, it gives you the test first and the lesson later"
Anonymous

By the time the day comes that your son is inheriting your collection, there will probably be something light-years ahead of Nintendo. Not to mention that hopefully your collection is worth more than just the price of 1 game.

You never know, he might have a wife interested in collecting, or the grandchildren offer 'another chance to hook a convert'.

_________________
Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

Hello Everyone.

About three or four months ago I responded to an ad offering a huge stamp collection for sale. From past experience, these huge collections are about ten albums worth of material, so I did not think much of it. However, this collection was the largest that I have ever seen around here. A storage area, of approximately 10x12x8 feet, was filled from floor to the ceiling with boxes containing albums and loose stamps. In addition to this, there were boxes that were being stored at home since they did not fit in the storage.

The owner had told me that the collection was his father's and since he passed away he wanted to sell it. He did not want to continue the collection, as he had no interest. He said that started to go through it to arrive at a price but, he had no patience.

Someone had made him an offer of $35,000 for the contents of the storage area. He did not accept it because he felt that the guy was trying to cheat him. I told him that I can't offer him anything close to that because I don't have that kind of funds and if I did my wife would have kicked me out of the house and I would have to move into storage with my new acquisition.

Anyway, my reason for posing a question about an exit strategy is related to the above story. The collector did not leave a will or instructions as to what is of value or what to do with the collection. His son did not know what to do. He did not want to continue the collection, did not have the time to sell on e-bay or even locally. I told him that perhaps he should consider an auction house but they will charge him a large percentage.

From that point on I thought that a will is a necessity for collectors. If my kids don't show any interest in stamp collecting they can be stuck in a similar situation if I don't leave instruction. However, I am not worried right now because I am just returning to the hobby and I don't have anything of significant value. But everyone of us should think about this, as mentioned by Glen.

Cheers!

But, you would have had some fun

A couple of years ago, one of my mother's sisters died. She did have a will, but left no instructions regarding her stamp collection

The executor asked my Mum (knowing she is also a collector) to dispose of the stamps. Some of the family members were in favour of just sending the whole lot to an auction house as is, but - as has already been pointed out by Glen - that would have been a very inefficient way to go.

It took over 12 months for Mum to go through and catalogue the entire collection (some 200 stockbooks and albums), and a few more months to dispose of it. Some went to a dealer, some went to auction, and some went to feebay.

The estate was very pleased with the end result, and the family was shocked that their Mum's "junk room" yielded in excess of $10,000. They would have been happy with one-tenth of that.

My mother has clear and explicit instructions regarding her own collection, and so do I.

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FORESTS OLD, PASTURES NEW
(An expert is one who knows more and more, about less and less, until they know absolutely everything about nothing at all)

That's a great story mcgooley.

For sure, I would have a lot of fun going through it all.

Cheers!

I'd tell them to mail everything to Glen.

Though if he, um, beats me, I'll ask them to split up the collection and mail sections to collectors who are interested in that stuff.

(Downey heads to Shawn; Postmarks to Waroff; Scottish rubbish to Mr Boggler ; island stamps to Jacob , etc etc etc..)

I have a will, all of my property goes to my wife and then to my kids. What they want to do with my stamps, or any of my other property is up to them, I'll be dead, I won't care.

I have a will and am leaving my collection to my grandson. I'm sure he will try to sell it and buy a car. Not many left in my family and those that are could care less about stamp collecting. Hope he gets a nice car.

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I buy too much, can't sell enough - but the information here is priceless.

Better make your will Erik because once MR B reads that you are gone ...

_________________
Here to learn
Here to enjoy

It's too bad that a lifetime of enjoyment will not continue with the next generation.
But, I am sure he will be happy with a car. If I were a teenager again, I would be.

Cheers!

Reading all this makes me wonder WHO will be collecting stamps in 100 years? Anyone?

I don't think there will even be stamps in 100 years, maybe not even in 20. Like all things, everything must end.

My stamp collection of the past 43 years will be going to Glen [if he's still alive !!!], either that or the local rest home for the elderly residents to droll over & count/sort etc. as they very rarely have such 'fun' in one of those joints !!!!!!

Problem is 99.9% of the time when you kick the bucket it usually brings the worst out of people even with a valid will..such is the reliance on greed nowadays...........

I hope not.
I think there is a lot of interest in the BRIC countries.


True words wolseley16/60.

Cheers!

In India,exit strategy is very simple.The collection is passed over to next of kin-son/daughter/wife/son in law/daughter in law etc.

With help of newspaper articles which states that stamp collecting is an excellent investment and stamps are being sold for hundreds and thousands of thousands Rupees -every stamp collection heir think he has a goldmine in his possession.

If you go to them for buying they will either say they don't want to sell or will quote an exorbitent price.

Only last week i was offered a collection for Rs. seven hundred thousands which was hardly worth Rs. seven hundreds only.

So if you want to exit your collection you must settle in india and then your heir will enjoy your collection for lifetime because they cannot dispose of their collection at their asking price.

opkedia

I wish that was the case in here.

I will introduce my son to stamp collecting but, I don't know if he will show any interest.

Cheers!

The best exit strategy is deal with it yourself, especially the boxes and boxes of junk that worth just a few pennies.

For those valuable collection that you don't want to sell in your lifetime, write down clear instructions as to how to deal with them. Things such as approx valuation on a certain date, and ways to sell down, names of friendly dealers and auction houses. Once the person who inherited the collection knows its value, it is unlikely to be deposed of by way of a garage sale.

I am in the process of doing just that, getting rid of stamps that has no future but still worth a few pennies and reuse the money to buy stamps that offers more potential. In terms of volume, my valuable stamps probably occupy less than 10% of total stamp storage.

Thre is one word that will save stamp collecting.

ASIA.

Enormous in China (population 1 billion plus) and heavily promoted in Singapore and Malaysia etc.

And in India, also a massive population, growth is huge.

INDIA.

I do agree with him.

Three setenents issued in 1991/1992-Mahadevi Verma,Airforce and Bridges are selling at 250-400 times the face value in mint condition.

Isn't it wonderful for philately?

opkedia

Mine is auction off the collection - half will go to the World Society for Protection of Animals the other half to the Lupus Research Institute.

I wish my aunt had thought like this!!!!!! But, like most people, she never thought of getting sick; and, for her, her collections - and all those kiloware lots - were company.

It was this experience, of having to deal with her main collection as well as the accumulations, that convinced both my mother and me about the importance of leaving instructions that are both easy to understand, and easy to carry out.

Curiously, in this age of the internet and all that jazz, the one factor that has continued to come up - both on this thread and in general conversations - is the importance of the personal contact. Both Mum and myself have very specialized collections (frankly, her collections scare the bejeebers out of me - then again, she feels the same way about mine ) and our nominated contacts have already been notified that if, and when, we kick the bucket they will assume control; for the simple reason there is no-one in the family willing or able to do so, and neither of us have the knowledge necessary to deal with the other's collection.

_________________
FORESTS OLD, PASTURES NEW
(An expert is one who knows more and more, about less and less, until they know absolutely everything about nothing at all)

Now I am interested mcgooley.
What does your Mom collect and what do you collect?

Cheers!

My interest is fairly well broadcast here on Stampboards - Victorian Barred Numerals as well as datestamps, etc, for the Victorian Post Offices which were opened during that period. Given many of the offices closed or were reduced to LPOs by the 1970s, most of my target area is in the QV or KGV period

Apart from that, there are two Victorian cds which are the 'holy grail' for me.

My mother, on the other hand, has two main collections - both of which have been going now for over 60 years. Her specialized KG V1, and her Full Commonwealth collections.
(She has others, but she considers these two her 'babies'.)

It's a laugh when we get a junk lot of early Australian - I don't see the stamps and she don't see the postmarks but fortunately there's only been a couple of times we've actually disputed a stamp. Seniority wins every time, but if she predeceases me, there's a couple of 'roo and KGV flaws that will be coming my way Too bad, I don't know, or care, what they are.

As you can see, completely disparate areas of interest.

_________________
FORESTS OLD, PASTURES NEW
(An expert is one who knows more and more, about less and less, until they know absolutely everything about nothing at all)

To each his own mcgooley.
That's the beauty of this hobby.

Cheers!

I am working on an exit scheme.

My children are scattered, and not interested in my collection for themselves, and have no philatelic knowledge.

My plan involves a collector friend (who will be known to the kids as "Mr 10%" taking charge, and arrangeing for the collection to be sold at an Auction ( Gary Watson at Prestige comes to the front of my mind).

I know that this will involve costs, 10% plus commision, but realistically, the kids know nothing.

"Mr 10%" will have his enthuisiasm maintained, and has a detailed knowledge of my interests, so I trust that better items will not be overlooked.

The auction will determine their value, and allow other collectors the to opportunity to restock, without a dealer having to make a profit on the costs of acquiring the collection.

It is clean, simplifies the interstate travel for the kids, when distressed, and money is divided equally.

The auction delay will not be an issue, and allow time to better assess the collection, than a dealer having a brief look, and coming up with a figure on the spot, when the kids have no idea of what there is, and having to cart it around.

Just my present plans.
regards

Just a slight correction here.
First there are currently no death duties imposed by any jurisdiction in this Country and haven't been since the late 70's (in Victoria). (However, don't hold your breath that this will be the case forever. Everything is being taxed these days)
Second, although it is true that the State Trustee in each jurisdiction usually winds up administering an Intestate Estate, there is nothing stopping a family member for applying for Letters of Administration. The distribution of an intestate estate is set out specifically in Acts of State Parliament - in Victoria the Administration and Probate Act.
Doesn't alter the fact that making of a Will, particularly where there are specific and valuable assets involved, is essential.

Philanthropist, I think that this is a smart idea of having a trusted friend, who knows his or her stuff, looking after the best interest of your family.
Great advice.

Cheers!

Thanks,
It is reassuring to have my ideas receive a seal of approval.
Regards

My little collection will go to my brother or my son, whoever is interested in it (not sure yet). If neither wants it, it will go to my local stamp club where they distribute donated stamps to local kids to nurture the hobby.

Hello.



That is a very good gesture ramanandn.

Cheers!

I have been thinking lately, what is my family to do with my collection after I'm gone. They are not worth a kings ransom, but a good bit of small change. Still I would like my family to reap something from my 60years of collecting. So I would like to leave them a note explaining the best way of disposing of the booty. By the way I don't intend leaving for some time yet, but. I don't like the Idea of handing them over to the first dealer that comes along. I would prefer them to go to auction, but I think that would be too much for them.

So, any suggestions.

I will give you an example of what is in the collection.
Complete PNG to 2007 including all the overprints, including 3rd printing.
Complete - Nauru, Christmas Island, Norfolk Island, Cocos Keeling, Ross, AAT, Australia post decimal. All the above are MNH. Also Australia Predecimal Used minus a few high value watermarks and perforations.
Thanks Ross

Well at the Moment I would be very confidant to leave it ALL in the hands of Prestige Auctions,here in Melbourne,as Gary has dropped his sellers fee down to only 10%,
Also they get great covereage,and often clear over 85 % of the lots.

But depending when you are going to shuffle off,
(if you belive all that is written and reported,, TODAY would be a Good Time.)
10 years from now that could all have changed.

But your dependents could just chuck the WHOLE LOT( Catalogues,Boxes,tweezers,EVERYTHING,) in the boot and drive it to Prestige,

_________________
Nunawading Stamp Fair
Last Sunday of Every Month - Jaycees Hall Silver Grove - Nunawading.

This thread might also give you some ideas (and a chuckle or two)

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26686

_________________
FORESTS OLD, PASTURES NEW
(An expert is one who knows more and more, about less and less, until they know absolutely everything about nothing at all)

Thanks, mrboggler , your suggestion sounds simple enough, and it sounds like you trust this auction. So I will cut and paste your idea into one of my books for prosperity.

How many time have I seen this, AND in my own family.

BTW good name maybe I'll change mine to wolseley4/50 (best car I ever had)

Hello.

There is a lot of different opinions in this thread that you might want to consider thegroup179.

If you want to send your collection to an Auction House. I would get in contact with a few, see what the fine print is, what their fees are, etc...

Also, you should not dismiss dealers, I think Glen will not charge you Auction House fees.

It's good that you are doing this now, since you know what you have in your collection.

Thanks for your question.

Cheers!

Hello AMark

You specifically asked for an exit strategy, here is one that I have adopted from an elderly collector friend in Sweden.

Starting latest at the age of 70 sell your best collection at auction every year and spend the money on a wonderfull vacation with your spouse (or without her ). I mean, she has endured your stupid hobby for so long, she deserves to reap the benefits.

When I turn 65 I will sell my first collection to finance a 3 months walk-about in Australia, to meet the family I never met, some 60 of them.

To make it even more worth while I shall bring my Australian collection with me so that a 'Glen' can get it sold. Presumably good collections sell best in their homeland, right?

This strategy does not prevent me from continuing my hobby with the remaining collections, there will just be fewer over time.

Another elderly collector friend of mine (75) has put his personal cash evaluation into every album, so that his children will not be hosed by a smart buyer.

Simultaneously he has now started weeding out all the garbage big time. Just sold his English Victoria corner letter dupes for € 4000 at auction. Then, taking my advice, he and his brother went sightseeing in South America for a month.

Premature death? Well I have 3 trusted stamp buddies and the verbal instructions are that they do the selling on behalf of my wife. The same would apply if I am the last man standing, so to speak, on behalf of my children.

A very sensible strategy! You may have spent a lifetime building your collection, why leave it to the next generation. Sell them towards the end of your life and enjoy the rewards that only you should deserve. Also it is an excellent idea to get rid of all the junks yourself.

Just a legal word- assuming you are providing for your collection/s to be disposed of and the monies to accrue to the Estate

If you are specific in a will ( eg My collection to be sold to G Stephens ) and something has transpired in the meantime to make that impossible ( eg G Stephens no longer deals in stamps but specialises in used dishcloths ) your Executor may have a problem.He would then have to seek the agreement of all the heirs to use a different dealer/method of disposal

This is probably not a problem if there is only one or two heirs or only one overall instruction for the disposal.But if you have provided for different parts of your collection/s to be disposed of in different ways ( eg my Penny Blacks to be auctioned by Grosvenor Auctions, my US Postmasters to be auctioned by Shrives etc etc ), or if there are a number of heirs the I can offer the following advice.

In your will just put "My philatelic materials to be disposed of as per my wishes and the proceeds to accrue to my Estate"

Then in a document attached to the will and signed by you give your detailed instructions.The title of the document should be something like My Wishes regarding my Philatelic Material and should be preambled something like - "I express these wishes to my Executor(s) regarding the disposal of .................."

And ended with " Should circumstances dictate that any of the above cannot be done then my Executor may act alternatively in his discretion"

This has a number of advantages mainly that your Executor is not totally hamstrung - and that you can change the instructions at any time without making a new Will

_________________
When a man comes to me for advice, I find out the kind of advice he wants, and I give it to him

Hello.

Happy Stamper:

Thank you for providing your thoughts on this topic.
You might as well enjoy the fruits of your labour.


ivqii:

Thank you for your free legal advice.


Cheers!

From a 4th generation Canadian, American and Boy Scout topical collection. I am putting together 5 collections of American and Canadian, two for my kids and 3 for my niece and nephews, even though they might not care about collecting.

My thoughts in doing this is that it will be a keep sake and may put a spark in one or two of them to continue the collection. However I will also be leaving them information as to the value and what to expect in trying to get rid of them if they choose.

The one of's and Topical Scouts with all the rest of mine and my wifes possesions will be going straight to auction.

When my Grandparents passed, they chose this way to prevent any arguments or petty jelousies, or thoughts of favoritism over material goods (too many grand daughters, easier to split $ than a set of "good" china ).

With an auction the family bid on what they wanted, it just came out of thier share of the estate. The family was very happy with this result because what was kept by family members where momentos they truely appreciated and it was clean, simple and no stress to the family.

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Please learn me.

Hello.

Maddog:

Giving the kids an option can be a good thing, as you never know if they will become collectors.
Also, providing instructions is always a smart thing to do.
Thank you for sharing your ideas.

Cheers!

Don't forget that wills are published in some areas or available to the tax/revenue people who you may NOT want to see the value of any collection. Their power and avarice knows no bounds. Just make sure potential inheritors know.

I am making Microsoft Excel spreadsheets of my collection and putting a copy of the appropriate spreadsheet in each album or box. That is why you have seen me asking some questions here.

Another thing to consider is a donation to charity at catalog value or a percentage thereof where that is an option. You give an album to a charity at retail value and claim it as a charitable tax deduction. Depending on your tax bracket, you might get more than hassling with a dealer or waiting on an auction (both considered income). You get more $$ and the charity gets some $$.