Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

That is a lovely strike of Enniskillen, Asmodeus.

Unfortunately, I have not had any new acquisitions to share.

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Regards, Jay

A Gem!

Did you add that to the "socket on the nose" thread?

Yes, I´ve added it to the "socket on the nose" thread.

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Truth is the daughter of time

Here is a cover I picked up recently.



It was sent from Kilrush to Limerick on 7 August 1844 and bears an 1840 2d blue (from plate 2), cancelled with the 285 barred numeral of Kilrush.

Chris.

Beauty, Chris.
I'm sure that you know that finding a 1840/1 blue on cover with an Irish 1844 numeral cancellation is quite an accomplishment. There ain't many of them out there. Well, now everyone else reading this also knows it!

Here's one I recently picked up:
Dungannon to London. February 11, 1848. Green-blue “193” of Dungannon. Two line “Tullyhogue / Dungannon” receiver.

...here's the page in the album where that cover lives:

Now the cat's out of the bag !

I had better keep where it came from a secret as that dealer had a few more - but none with a CG on.

I seem to recall that the Irish ones are the commonest (relatively speaking) and English numerals are the rarest.
Now to find a 1d black used on cover with an Irish cancel - I do like a challenge.

That's a really nice blue shade to the numeral and it shows up well - quite often those described as "blue" are difficult to see in scans. The receiving house mark is a bit feint, but is that in the same colour ?

Chris.

Nope. Black Under magnification, I can see some of the grains of black pigment, but very faint.

(Actually, feint would be something applied to possibly show a misdirection, faint would be the right direction, but very pale).

Oops busted by the dictionary police and there was me, all these years, thinking that the two were inter-changeable.

I suppose I had better post a nice image to make amends.



This is a Spoon duplex cancellation, dated 14 October 1855, in blue ink including the 345 numeral of Mullingar. It is cancelling a plate 157 1d red.

Chris.

and this, picked up at the York fair last week.



1841 2d blue, plate 3, block of six cancelled with the 371 numeral of Parsonstown.

Chris.

Those are some beautiful examples, especially CMJ's block of six 2d Blues. Nice margins all around.

I have a general question regarding Irish postal cancels. Is there a "rarity factor" reference for the Irish cancellations?

_________________
Regards, Jay

Jay,
Not that I am aware of, but if someone else knows of one, I would dearly like a copy.

I use a crude method of assessing the relative scarcity by reference to the population of an area from Lewis' Topographical Dictionary of Ireland. Hardly scientific, I know, but in the absence of anything better, it serves a purpose.

But it does allow me to assess that 11 Arthurstown (Co Wexford) with a population of 170 should be a much scarcer cancel than 10 Arklow (Co Wicklow) with a population of 6,309.

Chris.

Army officials used in Ireland. Here are five stamps used by Victorias Army in Ireland. In the first row;
The left hand stamp is SG041 used in Dublin City. The centre stamp is the same, but used Fermoy which is in County Cork. The right hand stamp is SG042 used in Killmallock which is in County Limerick.

In the second row the left stamp is SG043 used in Cork City. The right stamp is the same, but used in the northern town of Enniskillen which is in County Fermanagh.





Huanga.

GB Victoria used in Ireland. In the top row the left hand stamp is postmarked 186 which I believe is either Dublin City, or the H&K packet which sails from Dublin or Dun laoghaire. The right hand stamp was postmarked at the Curragh camp. That was the main British base in Ireland.

In the second row the left stamp is Dublin City. The remaining two are 186, being either Dublin or the packet ferry.





Huanga.

Here in my opinion is a nice clear stamp with a Dublin p/mk SG194.



Huanga.

Two GB/QV stamps used in Ireland, in the north. The first is SG156 and has the diamond cancel of Enniskillen. The second, SG162 [6d on 6d] has been cancelled in Belfast.



Huanga.

ps. Now that it is up and in view. I failed to notice the right side perfs on sg162. I suspect that at one time there would have been a little more to that side, than there is now.

That is a really nice example of a Dublin "spoon" duplex cancel on the left stamp and, appropriately, in green ink as well.

Chris.

18X9 ? Cork cancel. Shame they did not take better care when opening letters back then....

_________________
"Life is a tough Teacher, it gives you the test first and the lesson later"
Anonymous

I agree it was a shame, but I guess when the only contact you have, and are ever likely to have with home is the arrival of a letter. Then the hunger and the anticipation of family news means a gentle opening is seldom thought off. Bit like the annual sales in ladies fashions! Now in the case of stamps of cover and piece. Well that is fashion!

Meanwhile back to the Dublin p/mk. I never noticed it was green Chris. I just assumed that the dye of the cancel ink had begun to leach out. Perhaps you could tell me if a green cancel have any significance? I gave up on GB Blacks and Reds years ago, and if I attempt to study more than two together in front of me, I get totally confused. I have only a vague idea of what the plate and SG numbers are on the two you have highlighted. Could you enlighten me them?

Huanga.

I found another three GB posted in Ireland, and they are;

SG92. Posted in Newry in the County Down.

SG124 Posted at Carey's Cross in Cork.

SG142 Posted at Ballymoe in the County Galway.



Huanga.

Happy to oblige Huanga, about the postmark anyway.

Some information, paraphrased by me, from “The Dublin Spoon: 1855-1857” by Dr. C Dulin.

The Dublin spoon itself is much commoner than those from other Irish towns because so much mail was cancelled there but much rarer than the standard numerals because of the short period of use.

So in summary, a rare example of a relatively scarce cancellation.

As a guide to the scarcity, SG catalogue the basic stamp at £17 and a green spoon at £550 (but for both that is for the complete postmark and a well-centred stamp on piece).

As regards plating, I’m afraid my expertise (such that it is) only lies with the early imperfs. But this one was used in 1855.

Chris.

Three more GB posted in Ireland. The first is SG172. Posted in Ferns in the County Wexford. The second is SG201. Posted in Belfast, which I believe is in the County Antrim. The third is also a Belfast posted stamp. SG207a. However it looks untidy because I have not removed the unsightly piece from the back....yet!



Huanga.

GB Edward VII used in Ireland.

SG276 Used in Belfast in the County Antrim, and another 276 used in Crossdoney in the County Cavan.

[I just had an enlarged look at that second 276 and it might be a 463 rather than a 163. In which case the posting would have taken place in Castleisland in the County Kerry.]

SG300 Used in Belfast.



Huanga.

By a strange coincidence, I found this one since my previous post. It has the 11 numeral of Arthurstown:



How spooky is that ?

Chris.

I was going to put this one on the Maltese Cross thread, but here is more appropriate since it is an Irish usage.



Dublin to Tandragee dated 13 September 1843 cancelled with the distinctive Maltese Cross of Dublin.

Chris.

It has been a while since I have had anything new from Ireland, but I have just added this little beauty:



It was sent from Dublin on 15 May 1840 and cancelled with an orange-red Maltese Cross (the Dublin diamond datestamp on the flap matches the colour).

On arrival in London it was cancelled with a second Maltese Cross in a red-brown shade; the London tombstone datestamp matching this colour.

Not only is it an early use from Ireland but it also shows, on a single piece, the differing shades of red ink then in use. At the time, Postmasters were required to make their own ink, following a standard recipe and so wide variations in shade exist.

The stamp is a 1d black from plate 2.

Chris.

Picked up at the York Stamp fair last week.



A nice little cover, dated 22 July 1845, sent from Rosecrea to Sidmouth (England) with an upright strike of the 397 barred numeral of Rosecrea.

Chris.

Here is another addition to this thread. It is similar to one I posted earlier, but I believe this one is nicer.

Dublin

A GB Mulready 2d Cover used in Ireland to add to this thread.

Posted in Dublin to Master Handcock, Belmont House, Stillorgan. Stillorgan was formerly a village, but is now a suburb of Dublin.





The silk threads that run across the cover above and below the design show up really clearly on the scan, and sealed with a blob of black wax.

Can anyone interpret the red stamp on the back - a date stamp?

Dave.

Nice, very late use of a Mulready in Ireland with a numeral cancellation.


That will be a Dublin diamond datestamp applied to all mail leaving, arriving in or travelling through Dublin. There is a clearer impression on one of my images a few posts up.

I cannot make out the date but it is going to be June 1844 or later as that is when the numeral cancellations were introduced in Ireland.

Chris.

Another Dublin strike, rather pleasing to the eye I would think...

Hi Chris.

Thanks for the reply.

I've been doing some research, and found lots of conflicting dates Am I right in thinking that while the Mulready envelope was quickly withdrawn in 1841, the cover (or lettersheet), ie this one, was not withdrawn until 1844

So, about the time this cover was withdrawn was about the time this numeral cancellation was introduced

Also, there is nothing written on the reverse, so it was used as a 'cover' for other pages, not as a 'lettersheet' as such Sometimes these seem to be referred to as covers, sometimes as lettersheets - confusing ...

Thanks again - Dave.

Hi Dave,

I will freely admit that I know only a little about Mulreadies - in fact I don't even have one in my collection but I might be able to help on some of the questions.



You are absolutely correct in that the Mulready envelopes were replaced (by the Penny Pink envelope) in February 1841 but that the letter-sheets were not replaced until April 1844.

However, they were only replaced in the same way as the Penny Red replaced the Penny Black - which is to say that no more were printed and the old versions could still be bought if the local Post Office had any in stock.

All stamps bearing the image of Queen Victoria remained valid for postage until well after her death (until 1915 IIRC) and I imagine the same was the case with the Mulreadies too.

So if you already had them, you could still use them, hence the numeral cancellation, which for Dublin was used from 22 June 1844.

Another thing, I recall reading, is that hardly any of the letter-sheets used by private individuals were actually written on. Most of them were used to enclose something else. Very strange as they were intended to be written on.

The majority of Mulreadies, anyway, were printed on for commercial advertising.

Chris.

Hi Chris.

Many thanks for the additional info.


Yes, that's one of the things that had me a bit puzzled - they are sometimes called lettersheets, but the advertising on the back meant they couldn't be written on anyway! Plenty about those in the GB Specialised.

I also have a couple of the caricatures (unused), and have found some interesting snippets whilst googling. Rather than derail this thread any more, I'll look to start a new one.

I also found a Penny Pink envelope at the Preston Fair, at Barton, at the weekend.

Cheers - Dave

Below is an imperforate Penny Red which I bought because of the constant flaw under the "D", which is from plate 101.

Upon further inspection there is what appears to be a 385 numeral cancellation from either Rathcoole or Portglenone.

_________________
Regards, Jay

Very nice, Jay. If you ever get bored of it .....

It is a 385 and I am confident that it is for Rathcoole rather than Portglenone.

385 was allocated to Rathcoole in 1844 but was out of use there by 1857 and it wasn't until 1885 that 385 was re-assigned to Portglenone. Also the style of the bars in the cancellation is more like the early (1844) ones than those introduced later on.

I have various references to Rathcoole and its status as a Post Town:

1845 - Post Town
1852 - Post Town, the Post Master was Thomas Senior
1856 (May) - a sub-office under Tallaght
1857 (Jan) - a sub-office under Dublin/Tallaght
1857 - 385 numeral no longer allocated to any office
1868 - Back to being listed as a Post Town
before 1874 - Rathcoole was allocated the 386 numeral

Chris.

Thank you for the information, CMJ!

_________________
Regards, Jay

Here is a GB newspaper wrapper, WP15, with a "Dublin 2 Too Late" cancel addressed to Berlin

_________________
Jan Kosniowski - always seeking newspaper wrappers
http://www.stampdomain.com

Here is a pair of KEVII 1d with Wexford C.D.S. cancels

_________________
Regards, Jay

Below is a cover mailed from Wexford, franked with a Scott #33 with plate 73:

_________________
Regards, Jay

Below is the above cover unfolded, showing its contents:



It looks like an insurance claim form.

_________________
Regards, Jay

These are my only two covers from Ireland.

The first is dated 3 May 1935 from Belfast to NSW.



And this one is an 1849 internal to Cavan.



I haven’t been able to plate the penny red and the numeral cancel is difficult to make out but it looks like it might be 279

There are three backstamps. Two are dated Jan 13 1849 from Belturbet and Killeshandra with the third (very light) cancel being from Cavan on Jan 14.

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The more I learn the less I know...

The numeral is difficult to read but I would agree that it is 279 (for Killeshandra). The cover would have been sent from Killeshandra via Belturbet, arriving in Cavan on the following day.

Chris.

Correction: The date I included for my first cover was wrong it was actually sent on 13 April 1935 but readdressed and forwarded in Sydney on 3 May.

Thanks for confirming the cancel number Chris. I searched a little but wasn't able to find a full listing of numeral cancels for Ireland.

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The more I learn the less I know...

Hillsborough, County Down to Ottawa Canada Mar 15th 1902

I don't think there was a list for Ireland here on Stampboards, but that has been rectified now:

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=40967

Chris.

Would be nice to have this at home guys ?
1864 entire from Ballymena to Mexico with SG 89 in pair , wing margin at left, cover is A-, it is hard to find reference on the web about auction estimates for a similar item, if there are any, i believe so, Somebody can help me out?

The other day, I was trying to decide on my favourite acquisition of 2012 and this one came out miles ahead of anything else. It seems I was remiss in not sharing it on this thread, so I am putting that right.



It is a letter sent from Moate via Liverpool to New York on 26 May 1847 when the transatlantic rate was 1/- (1 shilling). An entire row of a sheet of 1d reds (plate 71) lettered from AA to AL was used on the letter, split into a strip of eight and two pairs.

These were cancelled with the 331 numeral of Moate using turquoise-green ink, rather than the regulation black.

Only six cancellations were applied (one for each pair of stamps) which was also in contravention of the regulations.

Chris.

A recent addition, picked up at the York stamp fair.



2d blue [IB-IL] strip of eleven, plate 4, from Belfast to Dublin, dated 22 May 1854, cancelled with six black Irish numerals (62 Belfast - split)

Chris.

Chris:
As usual, some great items.
Don't know if I posted this before, but in case I didn't, here's a brown Irish numeral (with BPA Certificate):