Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

This photo is from an ebay listing for the blue Ross Smith vignette, the original of which is worth I suspect around $6-8000.

It had a startiing price of $8.90, which is probably not unreasonable for what it is.

But nowhere in the description does the advertiser say that it is a reprint/facsimile. To me, personally, this is at best deception, and at worst an outright lie by omission.

Fortunately, nobody has been silly enough to bid on this (at the time of my post)

Is one allowed to do this sort of thing on e-bay?

Norm

It is of course the common reprint - of which there are many types.

The genuine is a much deeper Indigo/Steel blue and has a WATERMARK! A MUH example sells today for about $25,000.

Someone may want to send seller a direct link to this thread to put him in the picture he is selling a 5c item.

http://www.glenstephens.com/snmarch05.html


Ross Smith Vignette

The other high priced 'Local' item many think of immediately is the 1920 Ross Smith 'Vignette'. This is more a semi-official issue than a 'Local' or 'Cinderella'. It was ordered by the Prime Minister's Department (by no less than PM 'Billy' Hughes!) via Treasury and printed by the Note Printing Branch on watermarked paper - the same wide crown watermark as we find on 1914 KGV heads or 'Second' watermark Kangaroos.

For the dozen hopeful folks who ask me each year if their 'rare' vignette is really valuable ....... just hold it up to the light. If there is no watermark you have one of the many types of reprints done over the years. Some are crude, and some were far better productions.

Some are so roughly printed virtually none of the perf holes are punched out. And in ALL cases, the colour is quite wrong, not being the deep steel blue of the genuine as you can see in the photo nearby.

It is not a 'Local' or a 'Cinderella' strictly speaking, but in my view is an officially printed label and should be more correctly termed a 'semi-official' production. All the same a lot still exist as mint or used stamps, or on cover. A fine MUH sheetlet sells for about $A20,000 and a really superb cover was auctioned in recent times in the region of $A50,000.

There are still quite a number of these existing, either as mint sheetlets as illustrated nearby, or on covers. Dealer Simon Dunkerley once told me when he was working at an auction house lotting up the Sir Hudson Fysh collection, he recalls there were at least a dozen flown covers bearing this 1920 'stamp' carelessly dispersed among it. Most dealers agree the present price of this item is highly over-inflated.

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Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

Glen is right, I GIVE THESE AWAY FOR FREE ON MY WEBSITE:

go to wwww.kevinmorgan.com.au

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A dealer at our fair last year had half-a-dozen on a page and couldn't sell them at 50p each...

Well it has a bidder now.

And the seller DOES say in fact

ON OFFER IS A STAMP USED FOR MAIL ON THE FIRST FLIGHT FROM ENGLAND TO AUSTRALIA. THIS IS A BEAUT,

This junk was not used in 1919 indeed was not even printed until the 1980s.

Has anyone emailed seller and the bidder (sale has 8 hours to run) and given them a link to this thread, which is:

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=460

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Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

Just checked the listing...

Someone has asked the following question:



I have emailed the seller and pointed them to this thread.

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Peter

Here is the response I got from the seller...

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Peter

Well if you are reading Mr Genius ebay seller ... how about changing your totally misleading wording of:

ON OFFER IS A STAMP USED FOR MAIL ON THE FIRST FLIGHT FROM ENGLAND TO AUSTRALIA. THIS IS A BEAUT

to read:

ON OFFER IS A VERY CRUDE MODERN UN-WATERMARKED REPRINT OF THE STAMP USED FOR MAIL ON THE FIRST FLIGHT FROM ENGLAND TO AUSTRALIA.


Or you may find your brain dead buyer tom4076 will mess up your 100% feedback score if he too ever sees this thread, due to vigilant ebayers altering him.

He bid BEFORE the question was asked so has every right not to pay as your description as it stands is totally false.

If tom4076 cares to contact Kevin Morgan or myself he can have one free - for our postage cost, as that is all these crude reprints are worth.

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Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

And here is another example, appropriate to the heading of my OP - appropriately by somebody whose nom de plume is "old bills junk"

Mod - Dead link deleted

Price $A100 starting.

He is offering bridges in an apparently ignorant manner, describing them as "two cents, three cents and five cents", and it includes two 5/- Bridges.

Now looking at the pictures, the 5/- on the right is an obvious reprint, effectively worthless - I have seen these advertised for from a dollar or so.

The one to the left as shown has about half the stamp hidden.

There is no decent picture of either copy of the 5/-, which to me indicates that if the one of them that may be genuine is probably damaged beyond belief.

Now this person has advertised stamps before, so he must know something about them, and would not be ignorant of the value of the bridge stamp. So, my concluson is... (edited by me, because the statute of limitations has not expired)

Still no bids, so any potential bidder should ask for close up scans of both the 5/- Bridges before even considering wasting $100 on this dog of an offer.

Norm

One of the 5/- is genuine.

He only shows the top of it so goodness knows what the rest of it looks like!

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Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

Kevin, you are obviously a lousy dealer - the latest bid for this is now $18.98!

Norm

Yeah so lousy I only own www.StampNews.com.au, www.21stcenturyauctions.com.au, www.KevinMorganStamps&Coins.com.au, www.Bidferret.com,
a successful hardware store and a late model Rolls Royce!

Yet I give Stamps Away, go figure!

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Let's lay bets .. wlll the idiot ebay bidders take this over $20?

My guess is 60% chance of that.

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Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

I should buy it, just to enhance the value of the 1,000 or so pieces I already have LOL

_________________
FREE sample copy of Stamp News Australasia available on request to all Stampboards members!
Also don't forget to checkout our websites at http://www.kevinmorgan.com.au

17 minutes to go. Place your bets.

I am finalising my 'Stamp News' right now column Kevin.

Can I say you'll mail the buyer 5 free copies if he contacts you? Maybe he will then subscribe to "Stamp News" and actually LEARN something about stamps?

Went for $56 plus amazing

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FREE sample copy of Stamp News Australasia available on request to all Stampboards members!
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But that lets us see this cretin had already bid:

pockers41 AU $55.76

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Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

I know the buyer, he is a regular vendor and purchaser from our auctions.

When I see him next week I shall show him the stash of 1,000 of these that I have.

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FREE sample copy of Stamp News Australasia available on request to all Stampboards members!
Also don't forget to checkout our websites at http://www.kevinmorgan.com.au

Or should I say the underbidder, and he is already a Stamp News subscriber!

_________________
FREE sample copy of Stamp News Australasia available on request to all Stampboards members!
Also don't forget to checkout our websites at http://www.kevinmorgan.com.au

Is "RARE" the most overused word on Ebay?

Here's an example....

EGYPT 1962 J54-J59 POSTAGE DUES COMPLETE SET MNH - RARE

Mod - Dead link deleted

This set has a catalogue value (in my 2004 Scott) of about US$6 yet the item has a starting price of US$39.99 and it will cost you $3.50 to have it posted to Australia

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Peter

pockers41 got pipped at the post by Ferreter4 ??? at AU $56.76


fromdownunder wrote:


I don't think this is a case of ignorance at all - it's a case of OldBill
wanting you to think he is ignorant - His starting price of AU$100 gives him away a bit...
Notice not one of those pics show the right hand corner of the supposed 5/- treasures - ???

Yeah, that's why I wrote "apparently ignorant". He is/was fishing. And he's caught a fish at $A100, after changing it to a three day auction.

Norm

Yeah Norm I missed the word apparently this is theft by deception if these 5/- gems are what I think they are?

It will be interesting to see what they get bid up to - there are bound to be a few clowns out there willing to basically gamble on the fact that they are kosher and he doesn't know what he has on his hands ....
I might ask him for a full scan of just one of these gems - I bet I don't get an answer...

Yes, ask for a scan.

One of the 2 x 5/- is kosher, but all you can see is top corner of it!

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Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

Just got my answer back :lol:

old_bills_junk
Positive feedback: 100%
Member since: 07-Feb-07
Location: New South Wales, Australia
Registered on: www.ebay.com
Item: HARBOUR BRIDGE GOOD STAMPS 3 SENTS 5CENTS 2CENTS (170111055483)
This message was sent while the listing was active.
old_bills_junk is the seller.
good friend im sorry but im not good with the net or computer yet my girl that put them on the potos has gone away the 2 5 cetas have marks on them still good stamps

I supppose that there may be a language that old_bill is speaking here, although trying to turn it into english is close to impossible. I suspect he is just a ... (not sure I can say what I am thinking).

Norm

Bills comment to me when I asked for scans is similar but a little different

SORRY NO MY GIRL HAS GONE AWAY THAT PUT THEM ON IM NOT GOOD WITH COM OR NET THE 5 2 3 CENTERS USED SOME NOT THANKS

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KGV tragic

Same old story .. if someone claims not to know about stamps or other aspects of their listings ... don't bid with them.

Re the reprinted 'Ross Smith' vignette featured above - these would be the most commonly shown 'gems' that aren't in my philatelic career!

As referred to above, back in 1977 I saw about 12 of these used on cover in one collection - and all were genuine. It was the Hudson Fysh collection of Air Mails and I had the pleasure of lotting it for auction when it was sold by Robson Lowe ... a firm that had offices in London and Melbourne and was later
bought out by Christies, the stamp department of which is now owned and run by Spink in London.

Here is a nice clean and very attractive example of the real thing on cover that recently sold for $8,500 plus buyer's premium (Prestige Philately).



Apart from the watermark, the real ones are always printed in a dark blue and on white quality paper, and never yellow low quality paper nor poorly printed.

As popular as this item is, I do believe that it is really over-rated for a cinderella type item, although it does carry what could be termed a 'semi-official' status. The fact that it is printed on crown over A watermarked paper is also an important factor.

In all there would be approximately 600 covers recorded - although attractive ones in perfect condition are difficult. The one pictured above is about as nice as you will find. The other thing to look for with covers is use in combination with stamps from other countries such as India, and unusual postal markings along the way - some of these have sold for up to about $25,000 on cover.

No one really knows how many mint examples are still extant, however, I guess there would be about 75 to 100 complete sheetlets with full margins in mint condition of various grades, and probably about another 25 or so without margins - which are still worth several thousand $+ depending on condition.

Simon Dunkerley

Great to see Simon is getting the hang of photo loading.

As for Old Bill ... all old BULL it now sounds like to me.

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Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

Simon .. actually I mentioned your Hudson Fysh story on these vignettes in my column in next month's Stamp News:

http://www.glenstephens.com/snjune07.html

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Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

Great advice, Simon!

I'm going to start a new thread called "Ebay Tablets of Stone" and make this the first...

.. and a gamble I suspect will not pay off for the ultimate buyer! (or should that read 'unfortunate' buyer!).

Thanks - that sounds like a great idea!

If you read through my article/paper on eBay, you might want to dig out some more ...

http://www.simondunkerley.com/articles/sn107.html

In this article I have a section on the above and a long series of advice and tips for buyers (and by implication tips for sellers as any good seller will anticipate the possible concerns of buyers).

Simon

And now, with an hour or so to go, the bids for the Bridge set that I linked to above is at $222.50!

One of the two 5/- is definately a virtually worthless reprint as I pointed out in my earlier post on this listing, and there is no clear view of the other. Which as several have suggested, is probably damaged beyond repair.

Is there any legal way, as a non e-bay subscriber, to contact bidders (or the seller), and tell them that this is a pure con? And that they would be just as well off to use that money as toilet paper rather than buying this load of junk?

This is just theft by deception. And it gives our hobby a bad name.

As an afterthought, I will add that it is boards like this and Glen's forthcoming article in Stamp News that may help us minimise the e-bay crooks, because as sure as hell, e-bay seems to think along the lines of the final words of Clark Gable in Gone With the Wind.

Norm

Watch it carefully - I bet it passes $300- easily

This is a huge bone of contention - Unless you are actually transacting business with an eBay member on a particular item it is impossible to get hold of an email address !

The simple brilliance of this con lies in the fact that other bidders see interest in the item and it has the effect of more or less validating the item for sale (or certainly going a long way to clouding their judgment)... Old Bill should get a knock on the door from "The Old Bill"

I am just amazed. An average used bridge sells for under $200. This one below might be only a half a stamp for all these idiot bidders know. It obviously is parcel cancelled that much I CAN see.

The 5/- reprint and the others are worth $5-$10 tops as a group.

So TOP price you would want to pay is say $150.

Hope someone emails this thread link to the high IQ top bidder aussie1942 .. who I see has many purchases from joanne620 and stampcollectorboz among his/her past buys.

Well this 5c free giveaway type item sold for ~$56.

ebay buyers never cease to astound me with their lack of knowledge and research.

And ebay sellers are legion who clearly know their description is wrong and misleading who do NOT amend it when advised.

The appalling quality giveway reprint some goose paid $56 for, is shown next to the real thing below.

A fool and his (or her) money are soon parted ... a perfect example of how to blow $56 with the push of a button on your keyboard

This Ross Smith idiot bidder was so spectacular I have immortalised him/her forever!

http://www.glenstephens.com/snjune07.html

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Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

Maybe not so sillyafter all. As I hear it, ferreter4 bought the item simply to avoid the underbidder, apparantly one of his customers, from winning it and so has now ensured that this customer is safely in his pocket so to speak, by alerting him to the error of his ways.

Quite a smart way to spend $56 I would think.

The under-informed underbidder has I am told spent $30,000 on stamps this year alone, and consigns many lots to one of our major auction houses!

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Also don't forget to checkout our websites at http://www.kevinmorgan.com.au

Yep I'd say a very good INVESTMENT in both common sense and decency at a mere $56 ....

If that is all true ... the buyer could get the benefits outlined for free by returning the item as not described, warning the under-bidder to reject any 'second-chance offer' and saving his $56!

OK, I cannot let this one go! To me, it is plain theft of buyers money, even if the buyers may be idiots. Another Ross Smith Vignette, but the write up is that it may be real, or it may not, and the bidding is up to $76.00.

Mod - Dead link deleted

I did not notice this earlier, and there is les than a day to go.

Maybe I should not be angry...caveat emptor applies.

Norm

I am not sure how many times I have typed this in my Stamp News articles over the decades - as recently as last month actually - but here goes for time 100

"THE ROSS SMITH VIGNETTE IS WATERMARKED, WITH THE WELL KNOWN '2ND WATERMARK' CROWN OVER A - - MULTIPLE TIMES ACROSS THE SHEET. A 3 YEAR OLD CAN SEE THEM. IT ALSO CRISPLY PRINTED AND SHARP IN A DEEP STEEL BLUE AND THE ZILLION DIFFERENT FAKES ARE FUZZILY PRINTED, AND ALL A FAR PALER BLUE. THE GENUINE ARE ALSO LARGE HOLE, SINGLE LINE PERF, NOT SMALL HOLE COMB PERF AS THIS JUNK IS. "

AS THIS SALE HAS ONLY 5 HOURS TO RUN MAYBE SOMEONE WITH AN EBAY ACCOUNT CAN EMAIL THIS THREAD LINK TO THE SELLER AND HIGHEST BIDDERS AND SUGGEST SOMEONE HOLDS THIS $1 PIECE OF JUNK UP TO THE LIGHT AND VERIFIES THAT IT INDEED IS NO WATERMARK AND WORTH $1 NOT $75!

THE THREAD LINK TO EMAIL IS:

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=28724

You can clearly SEE the watermark in the scan on the genuine item shown below.

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Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

Glen,

Ebay have blocked all communication between non trading members, how convenient.

So I cannot inform them, poor bloke has also bought from J620.

Cheers, Rick.

I've been following some of this seller's items. They list the smallest fleck on Roos and KGV's as "varieties" without any references, and seem to sell them all!

I had no problem contacting the leading bidder to tell them this is a reproduction. I've included Glen's link.