Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

Cinderellas are not my forte, but I found this amongst some Tasmania Pictorials recently.

Does anyone have any knowledge of same.



Thanks in advance

_________________
We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

Looks for one for pres when the show is out of his hair.

Looks 19th Century .... and would have a nice value I'd guess.

I can supply all sort of info about AP Miller but not about the cinderella. The Auspostalhistory.com site has a couple of covers addressed to Miller which are dated 1903 and 1905.

The building was constructed in the 1890s so it may be late 19th or early 20th century.

Seeing Pres is floor manager you may have to run to keep up with him

_________________
Here to learn
Here to enjoy

I have given this a bump now that the show is over. But I'll bet the work continues.

_________________
We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

When I first saw this I thought it might have been used to pay for an delivery of goods within Hobart by a Miller employee, because it had what appeared to be a 1/3d written on the stamp. The post card below tends to back up my hunch.



In this months Stamp News, Rod PERRY has illustrated a post card with the same stamp which is cancelled by a 'curious itaglio obliterator'.



The article is on page 15 of this months (August) Stamp News. The article isn't on Rod's website as yet so I will have to make do with a scan of the image in the article.

Rod finishes with 'I've not seen this particular item before'. Obviously he doesn't read Stampboards.

_________________
We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

Yes, but Rod assured me once that stamps would never be sold via computers, so he does catch on - eventually.

I have just read Rod Perry's article regarding the postcard with the Miller & Sons label and would like to offer the folllowing comments:

1) there is no record of the handstamp "cancelling" the label on the card (pictured above) being in use at the GPO (which was only two blocks away from Miller's Pharmacy and in the same street) or at any other Hobart post office.

2) Miller & Sons was on the corner of Elizabeth and Liverpool Streets .... I am not certain where "W. Livingston" resided or had business premises but if it was more than two blocks away in either direction along Liverpool Street I'd be very surprised.

3) I recall having seen a similar handstamp used to apply fake cancels to St George & Dragon postal/fiscals that had pen cancels chemically removed. I still have the image(s) somewhere and will post when found.

Therefore, I think it is unwise to declare that this card is commercially used in the sense that it has been received by and delivered to the addressee using the services of the P.M.G. Dept.

If it can be ascertained that Miller & Sons ran their own local courier service using these labels to denote prepayment for carriage, I guess that one could then say that the card has been commercially used but there is no primary evidence that I can find indicating that such a service existed in 1906 or at any other time for that matter.

I also think that it is unwise to assume that the example with "1/3" written in pen denotes that a delivery cost of 1/3d has been charged by Miller & Sons for the delivery of some goods.

As these labels were often applied to bottles and boxes containing patent medicines to indicate the supplier, the "1/3" could indicate instead that it was affixed to one of three items dispensed to a customer.

It may have also been the price of the goods to which is was affixed ,,,, both more pausible explanations in my opinion.

I am of the opinion that this item was not delivered by the post office nor by a messenger working for a local post service but was produced "just for fun".

I would however like to have it in my tiny collection of Tasmanian cinderellas and think that Rod's valuation of $150 (but as a cinderella item) is pretty close to the mark.

_________________
For information about Tasmanian stamps, postal history, postmarks, revenues, postcards, etc. visit the Tasmanian Philatelic Society Website at http://tps.org.au

You have seen a lot more Tassie postmarks than me and I've never seen anything like that - and most especially on a local postcard in Hobart city, who had endless circular date stamps on hand.

It looks vaguely like an intaglio bag sealer impression, that we know got used now and again as emergency cancellers, (wording in reverse) but with no crown or town name, does look "home made" to me.

1/3d (15 pence) in an era of 1d post seems implausible for local delivery to me.

Yes, Tassie locals or Cinderellas are VERY thin on the grounsd.

I put this into stock a while back ... from 1864, but sadly GERMAN, not Tassie! Have seen a few mint since, but not another used one.

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=206075

Re point 1. I don't think Rod was ever implying that it was used in the 'official postal system' He states it is a cinderella and commercial use would apply to it's use as a cinderella similar to the Cycle Mails or Boyd's Messenger Service.

The card was written late at night long after the post had closed. The writer may have wanted it delivered post haste.

1/3d is not out of the realms of possibility for messenger deliveries, just look at the cycle mails. 1 Shilling and 2/6 for the first issue.

Many Chemists delivered drugs, medicines and orders. My first part time job was at Peppin's Pharmacy in Footscray and part of the job was to deliver prescriptions by bicycle. (Should have made my own bicycle courier stamps)

Millers seems a quite large establishment and it wouldn't surprise me at all to find they created a delivery service as a side line to their pharmaceutical deliveries.

This all happened over 100 years ago and I don't think we will ever know for sure unless records from Millers surface proving the existence of their messenger service.

I still think it is a distinct possibility that there was one.

New discoveries are being made every day and more recent items than these are being discovered.

_________________
We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

I would say remotest possibility!

I would also say that the fraction "1/3" denoting a charge for delivery rather than the usage I suggested previously (i.e. one of three items dispensed) is only a remote possibility as well ...... firstly as it is written as a fraction rather than on the horizontal plane as an amount of cash would usually have been and secondly, if it were a charge for delivery, the sender would have probably added a "d" to the sum (i.e. 1/3d).

I don't think the "'1" would have been written much smaller than the "3" either if it were meant to indicate "1/3d" ... it is more likely that the relative sizes of the numbers would have been the reverse.

It's not impossible that Miller had a delivery service where a charge was levied on customers (although I am as close to certain as one can be that they didn't) but I don't think this cinderella is a contender for listing as a Tasmanian/Australian local post stamp just yet without some primary evidence being forthcoming.

Here's an image from 1904 featuring the magnificent A.P. Miller & Son Druggists Emporium on the corner of Elizabeth and Liverpool Street ...just one and a half city blocks away from where I am typing this post. This was was the second building that they occupied on this site and the one featured on the label.



Just after WWII it was replaced by this .........


............... (words fail me!!!)

_________________
For information about Tasmanian stamps, postal history, postmarks, revenues, postcards, etc. visit the Tasmanian Philatelic Society Website at http://tps.org.au

To cycle 100 miles across the burning hot WA Goldfields deserts in mid summer, in 120 degree temperatures, (and back again!) I'd want 1/- and 2/6d as well.

Now as for walking a few city blocks in chilly Hobart ..................

In that era you paid junior office/store boys a couple of shillings a WEEK.

9/- a week was a milk-woman's wage

16/- was the top wage of a woman operating a sewing machine

£1 per week was what the average coffee-stall keeper, general labourer or female copy clerk in the City earned

http://fascinatinghistory.blogspot.com/2005/08/salaries-wages-in-victorian-times.html

I'm on a train at the moment heading to Geelong for a meeting of the Geelong Philatelic Society, and although I've got a lot of 'stuff' with me, not a lot of catalogues.

What were the small parcel rates in Tasmania at the time?

_________________
We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

The ACSC states the the 1/- QV "Tablet" covered small parcels within Tassie.