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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 08:13:19 am 
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I am trying to get a Great Britain Penny Black with my initials. It would complete the set as I already have a 4-Margin Blue, and a 4-Margin Red so all I need now is a 4-Margin Black. I know there are different plates that make pricing a moving target. How much should a nice 4-Margin lower plate value retail for ?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 08:28:49 am 
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Mint or used?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 09:45:27 am 
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A nice 4 margin used without any faults would be about £150.00

I've been keeping an eye out for a nice R-C for you but with no joy as yet.

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31468

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 09:55:36 am 
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stallzer wrote:
...4-Margin Blue...

There are 2 different imperf blues - that of 1840 (no white lines near POSTAGE and value) and of 1841 (white line under POSTAGE and over value). The 1840 one is worth more than the Penny Black.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:08:47 am 
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HalfpennyYellow wrote:
stallzer wrote:
...4-Margin Blue...

There are 2 different imperf blues - that of 1840 (no white lines near POSTAGE and value) and of 1841 (white line under POSTAGE and over value). The 1840 one is worth more than the Penny Black.


I have the 1841 with the White lines. Thanks Iggy, I've seen a few but it must have been the plate position as they were all $300 US +. I'm in the market for a used one to answer the other question, but only if the letters are clearly visible. I suppose I'm overlooking one thing, can certain corner letters only come from 1 or 2 plates ?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:13:28 am 
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Iggy wrote:
I've been keeping an eye out for a nice R-C for you but with no joy as yet.


Iggy



www.mypennyblacks.com currently has plate 8 with broken London points MX for sale at a reasonable price if it is RC that you want.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:18:20 am 
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stallzer wrote:
...I suppose I'm overlooking one thing, can certain corner letters only come from 1 or 2 plates ?

No, all 1d blacks, 1d reds and 2d blues were printed in sheets of 240, in twenty rows of 12. That way a row would cost one shillind, and a sheet twenty shilling, which equalled to one pound.

The first row had these corner letters:
A-A, A-B, A-C, A-D, A-E, A-F, A-G, A-H, A-I, A-J, A-K, A-L

The second row had these:
B-A, B-B, B-C, B-D, B-E, B-F, B-G, B-H, B-I, B-J, B-K, B-L

...and so-on until the twentieth row which had these:
T-A, T-B, T-C, T-D, T-E, T-F, T-G, T-H, T-I, T-J, T-K, T-L

So if your initials are R-C, all stamps with those initials come from row 18, stamp 3.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:27:13 am 
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I am giving away a Penny Black for our FIFTH Birthday on April 1 .. so maybe hold off on buying for a wee while. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:27:51 am 
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iomoon wrote:
Iggy wrote:
I've been keeping an eye out for a nice R-C for you but with no joy as yet.


Iggy



http://www.mypennyblacks.com currently has plate 8 with broken London points MX for sale at a reasonable price if it is RC that you want.


Is that a good price for a plate 8 ? I don't know what plate this one is but I had been considering it but the plate 8 at Pennyblacks is nicer and for only 10$ US more.

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Was only one plate needed for an entire sheet ? Glen, any with RC corner letters ?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:39:35 am 
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stallzer wrote:
Was only one plate needed for an entire sheet ?

Yes. One plate printed a complete sheet.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:49:38 am 
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Wait till I've checked mine Stallzer, I haven't looked for an RC one.
But I've done the same thing for a set of 4 matching letters to my initials. :D

The most expensive is the first 2 penny blue (1840), much rarer than the penny black.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:50:40 am 
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If numbers of sheets printed is any indication of rarity and price:

Plate 1a - 17,000
Plate 1b - 30,000
Plate 2 - 30,000
Plate 3 - 20,000
Plate 4 - 35,000
Plate 5 - 36,000
Plate 6 - 38,000
Plate 7 - 25,000
Plate 8 - 30,000
Plate 9 - 16,000
Plate 10 - 9,000
Plate 11 - 700

These numbers, supplied by Richard Frajola, are for only the black plates.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:57:38 am 
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stallzer wrote:

Is that a good price for a plate 8 ? I don't know what plate this one is but I had been considering it but the plate 8 at Pennyblacks is nicer and for only 10$ US more.


The mypennyblacks stamp is much better than the one you illustrate. The one in the message is tight on the right and is in at the bottom right. The one linked has nice margins all around and a distinctive MX.

As for whether the price is fair for a plate 8, look at the others he's offering, look at the prices for comparable other plates, and make a decision. The vendor can only put a number on "price." The customer (potential or otherwise) is the only one who can put a number on "value."

To expand on iomoon's comment on relative value, In Edward Proud's book on the penny black, he puts relative values for the different plates and states of the plates. For some of the RC position, plates 1b, 2, 4 and 5 are "N;" plate 6 is 1.1 x N; and plate 8 is 2.2 x N; Plate 5, state 2, is listed as 3 x N.

BTW - Doug of MPB is a nice guy and completely reputable. However, you might ask him to check his plating. RC Plate 9 has the left frame line extending, just like the picture, while RC Plate 8 doesn't have the extended frame line.

Also BTW - don't get sucked into being one of those crazy initial collectors. A loony lot, they are.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:46:58 pm 
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[quote="chipg"]Also BTW - don't get sucked into being one of those crazy initial collectors. A loony lot, they are.

Then I should fit right in :lol: Since my US collection has become a bit stagnant due to the cost of the items I need to tighten up the collection I was looking for a new avenue. Since I found my Blue for very cheap and my Red on cover for $20, I figured I'd go for all the Great Britain stamps with my initials. I'm quite certain I'm not the first to do this.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 14:25:18 pm 
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ROTFLMAO

I wish I could find as many OI's as you did CG's.
Though QVPennies has one I want at the moment.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 01:16:48 am 
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stallzer wrote:
I figured I'd go for all the Great Britain stamps with my initials. I'm quite certain I'm not the first to do this.


If you stick to "design different" stamps, you'll probably have a reasonable number to look for. Once you move to the SG specialized catalog listing, you start looking at plates, perforation varieties, trial things (e.g. Archer perforations, Treasury Roulettes, etc.). That's when you know you've gone over the deep end.

Good luck to you.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 15:07:26 pm 
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I know the Penny Blacks etc don't have AW, but were there any plates
with smaller stamps, revenues or other that used AW? Otherwise
I'll have to go first name middle name!

Andrew


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 18:19:06 pm 
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Andrew, the GB 1870 ½d were printed in sheets of 480 (20 rows of 24 stamps)

The letters would be from A-A to T-X so your A-W is there.

There were 15 different plates used from plate 1 to plate 20. Plates 2,7,16,17,18 not being used.

Plate 13 shown below:

Image

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 18:22:08 pm 
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Cheers, something to look for!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 03:03:37 am 
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Rather than start a new topic, I'm adding my question to this one which is a pretty similar thread.

I cannot understand all the plates etc which mypennyblacks.com refers to :( . This is my wife's treasured penny black. I assume since much of the 'ONE PENNY' is chopped off, it isn't worth much. Any ideas on how I can identify it?

Image

Similar with these penny reds? I know I'm being a bit lazy here but there's no way I'm going to become an expert on these stamps :wink:

Image

Thanks

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 15:33:42 pm 
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It isn't easy to make it out from the photos but for the 1d reds on the left and right, the plate number is in the design on the left and right of the stamp. I THINK the second digit of the stamp on the right is a zero; with a magnifying glass you should be able to read it easily. For the one in the centre and the 1d black you'll need a set of reference works such as Harold Fisher's five volume 'The Plating of the Penny' published for the Great Britain Philatelic Society as only by measuring exactly the position of the letters in the lower corners will you know which plate they come from.
This is no easy task!


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 15:48:04 pm 
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The 1d red in the centre COULD be from plate 55 but there are other possibilities. It is difficult to make out exactly the position of the letters and compare with the illustrations I have of all the OAs from plates 22 to 68 + Reserve plate 17 of die II - but it is certainly one of this group.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 15:55:32 pm 
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I have tried to identify the plate of the 1d black but there is too much missing from the area where the letters are.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 08:17:59 am 
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This red maltese cancel 1d black up for grabs for $100.
Any suggestions as to the plate?

Image

Cheers


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:13:04 pm 
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Difficult to be sure but most likely plate 6


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:29:43 pm 
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At a glance plate 7. I need to grab my books. There is a whole thread just for identifying PB Plates. :idea:
PS for $100 buy it.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 16:50:49 pm 
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Spartacus wrote:
This red maltese cancel 1d black up for grabs for $100.
Any suggestions as to the plate?


I agree with Greg. It is from plate 7


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 23:23:44 pm 
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Thanks for all the info and advice, much appreciated.

PS. I think I will buy it at $100.

Cheers


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