Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

Strips are fatter than on genuine one. There are 3 positions which looks like strips touch one another, gaps on genuine one are same.

Only to time of catalogue.

Ok, but you still didn't answer:

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My wantlist for Malta Revenues

Because then they'd be known as "Open Secret Marks"

Then why does he say that he wants to make a catalogue of them?

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My wantlist for Malta Revenues

Yes, i did. Only to time of catalogue.
I don´t want show more of them now, but i will show ALL of them in catalogue.

I presume so he can sell the catalogue as well and make a bit extra

I must admit I wouldn't touch any of this rubbish, I agree that it cannot do the hobby any good and just seems a waste of time and all a bit pointless, it can't give anyone any satisfaction owning a forgery even if it is of the most expensive stamp in the World.

Catalogue, as i said before, will have free pdf form.
There were thousands of collectors in recent hundred years who are more satisfied with forgery than gap in album.
How many people so many tastes.

Shareman,

Please read the four pages of this thread again and tell me how many people HERE prefer forgeries than blank spaces.

Thanks,

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My wantlist for Malta Revenues

He'll know if anybody is copying is replicas and getting them wrong.

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Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics GB stamps info: http://www.norphil.co.uk - also /catalog for our ecommerce site, blog.norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk and Ian_norvic on twitter

Have any moderators checked this guy's story out, to see if he is really doing as he says? Or, is it possible he is running a joke/hoax on the board?

It seems like the longer this thread goes on, the more free publicity he gets. And, for whatever reason people may be tempted to go search out his site themselves and legitimatize it by adding traffic.

There is a definite line between fun/fantasy philatelic, and fakes and forgery's.

There are two divergent paths to these problems: (though both can work)
Sunlight and exposure / or isolation and starvation.

My best to all lovers of stamps,
pat

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"I don't have a lot - But I like what I got"

What's the use of a secret mark,

IT'S ON THICKER UNWATERMARKED PAPER,

David b.

Post # 1,



This crap is already being sold,

David B.

This is the only secret mark you need.

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Jay Carrigan
http://www.jaypex.com

Superb idea. How can this be made reperf-proof?

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Norbert

Put it across one of the bars of the £ sign

make it an inch high in the centre of the stamp,

David B.

A properly placed cancel would take care of that.

Norm

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Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

If it were reperfed it would make the overall stamp smaller, so that ought to be proof enough; alternatively it could be put in 2/4 margins.

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Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics GB stamps info: http://www.norphil.co.uk - also /catalog for our ecommerce site, blog.norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk and Ian_norvic on twitter

The general concensus is that you are a very, very bad boy and deserve to be spanked.

Go to your room and no dessert for you tonight.

The CCh Macquarie Dictionary of Law - 2nd Edition ;
Forgery -the counterfeiting or alteration of a document , or part of a document , with intent to defraud .

Now the question arises ;
If some person in the future sells one of these "forged" stamps as a genuine one and is caught and charged at law for selling a forgery and or selling under deception , is the origional person who printed ("Forged") the stamp also liable ?.
For any one thinking of forging stamps this I would allege is something to think about .
So are you bad As a forger of stamps , simple answer "YES".
John O.

Good going. I would say its valuable if you have replicas that eliminate the expensive $1,000+ dollar stamps which normal people can't afford. Better have a replica than an empty space glaring back at you.

Make replicas and forget what these old naysayers are saying.

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My wantlist for Malta Revenues

Replicas =/= Forgeries. This point has to be drilled into people's minds.

If they are not clearly marked as replicas then it is easy to see secondary sales being used to separate naive collectors from their money. This is so even if the intent of the creator of the replica has no intention to defraud.

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Oh no! Someone will take money from someone else stupid enough to give them money.

The fact is that through human history people have taken advantage of others. The fact isn't that we need to protect idiots from their own money, but rather ensure that smart collectors know what is a replica and what is not.

A replica on top would suffice but human ingenuity will always find a way to take advantage.

This high reeks of rich retired old dudes complaining refusing to open their minds.

If people are SO concerned about replica's being sold, they should put on the page with black marker "REPLICA" with a couple of arrows pointing to the stamps. Maybe have "WARNING! REPLICA INSIDE! PROTECT YOUR MIND!" engraved on the stock book to warn people.

Are you really as naive as you come across? If a replica is not clearly identified as such then the opportunity to fleece collectors will exist forever. The original buyer may know what it is, maybe even the owner after that. But then what?

If you are against the idea of protecting naive collectors (and , as a result, the hobby itself) then I feel rather sorry for you.

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Oh No! Somewhere, Some time down in history, some replica stamp might be sold as a fake! Won't anyone think of the children?

The fact is replicas are needed to complete a collection. Sure you might have $1000s to throw away on those stamps, but seeing as how the current economy is I don't give a toss at what "the old boys" think.

If a stamp is clearly marked as replica has warning signs that your brain might be damaged by looking at that god awful replica and it is clearly marked as such then its alight by me. Worrying over what might happen 50 years from now or even 10 is a stupid and fruitless endeavor.

You will not be able to protect idiots from spending their money and if they so choose to spend it without figuring it out if it is a replica or without using that mind that both evolution and god (which ever flavor you want) gave then that is entirely their fault not mine. Protecting them is depriving others of a valuable service of replicas NOT forgeries.

I assume then your against the sale of Rembrandt's and other painting as well? Someone, somewhere might sell them as real. Are you on a crusade to eliminate the replicas as well?

Please read carefully and engage brain before typing.

If a replica is clearly marked as such, then I have no particular problem with it. Not my cup of tea, but I wouldn't deprive others. What I object to is a replica made to look very close to the real thing, but not marked as such.

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Same advice to you and your eye sight. I argued from the very beginning that replicas are fine as long as they are marked as replicas.

Where did you say that "from the very beginning", by which you must mean from the time you made your first post in this thread, which in full reads


You show your support for replicas, as a way for average collectors to have valuable items, and go so far as to say that the replicas "eliminate" the expensive items (I assume you mean "a collector is able to cross them off their 'want list'"). But no-where did you add a line saying "however, these replicas should be clearly marked". Even eBay, despite its mountains of stupidity in its operations, managed to think to include the rule that replicas/forgeries must be indelibly marked.

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

Yes, this. The cruddy piece of crap below sold for over $A200 on eBay a few years back as neither the seller or the buyer had a clue what they were doing.



This is not the first time this has happened on eBay - on another occasion (which is still here somewhere, but I can't find it at the moment) somebody had the 5/- replica partly buried under real 2d and 3d Bridge stamps in an attempt to hide what it was. It also sold for over $A200. In this case it was probably fraudulent, but the buyer was too dumb to realise what it was.

The point being that some time "down the track" this sort of material will turn up in the hands of the ignorant, and they will market $2.00 stuff for $100's or $1,000's simply because their buyers are brain dead cretins as well, but who really don't deserve to lose money like this.

Norm

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Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

PeterS, Katchem_ash did say in an earlier post ' if a stamp is clearly marked as replica' so the exchange of harsh words was uncalled for.



What peeves me is the lack of concern within this thread for those who are duped through the sale of replicas/copies/facsimiles of high cost stamps and the subsequent effect on our hobby ( business in some cases).

I collect stamps which have been postally used. Having to wade through CTO and mass-produced pulp from the sand-dune countries, the 'printed for collector' items from the eastern bloc countries in the 1960's and ..70's, and the various other non-postally used items is bad enough without having to be aware of reprints, forgeries, facsimiles, copies and now 'replicas'- most not marked as such.

No wonder there is a 'grumpy old men's' group within our hobby.

As an addendum, as a 'stamp' collector, I would never knowingly put a copy, facsimile or replica in my collection. Replicas DO NOT complete collections as they are NOT genuine postage stamps.

You have obviously not read this thread very carefully. One of the running themes on it has been concerns that replicas/forgeries can be sold by the ignorant to the more ignorant on the "tertiary" market.

Indeed only a couple of posts up from yours, I posted two examples of 5/- Bridge Australia Post authorised "reprints" being sold by people who knew nothing to people who also knew nothing for insanely high prices.

This is one of the banes of collecting. People who waste money on fakes, eventually discover that what they have purchased is worthless, and are lost to collecting forever.

It is a major concern, and one of the reasons why the OP's "reproductions" have been almost universally panned by Board members.

Have you actually read the whole thread?

Norm

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Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

They are not meant to be. Do you have $1,000's to spend on one stamp? I certainly do not have that kind of money lying around in my home. My budget for hobbies is what it is which excludes me from buying the over the top extreme prices for that one stamp.

With this in mind, I rather just spend $10 to get a replica and call it a day. Sure it is not real, I know that, but it is much better than an empty space mocking you for the lack of monetary funds you have.

So be it. I would rather leave a blank space.

To Fromdownunder, yes I've read the thread..and almost every other post on Stampboards ( except that bizarre numbers thread). Your post refers to 'sold by the ignorant to the even more ignorant', hardly a positive call as it ( in my opinion of course) mis-represents the true situation.

From other threads it is clear that many of the sellers are not ignorant, they knowingly and falsely advertise items as being genuine, or 'ssuuuupppeeerb' when in fact they are forgeries or 'enhanced' etc.

The buyers are 'victims', just as all Madoff's clients were victims; or those who voted for Gillard thinking she may have kept her election promises; and so on.

I would not (knowingly) put a replica stamp in my album. I am not opposed to a spacefiller stamp though.
For example, a fiscally cancelled stamp will fill the space and will let me see how the original stamp looked, but at a substantial reduction in price.
I also don't have limitless funds - but there are other ways to fill those empty spaces.

Anyone who spends $10 or more on a replica is silly. Why not cut out stamps
from Auction catalogs, stamps catalogs or magazines which will often look
better? It makes just as much sense, ie none! I've got infinite more respect
for beginner collectors putting 50c stamps in their albums, as that is stamp
collecting. They will learn far more from their real stamps, have greater respect
for them and go on to bigger and better things. Everyone will always have gaps in
their collection, deal with it.

Andrew

PS The argument about $1000 stamps is flawed, when the same stamp can
normally be obtained in used or spacefiller condition for a fraction of the price.
And if anyone says they don't have any gaps that could be filled for $10, they're
dreaming! Support real dealers, not producers of fake grot!

Personally, I would rather spend the $10 on real stamps to fill (quite a lot of) other gaps.

Also gaps on the page are really only there is you are using a pre-printed album. If you design you own pages or use stockbooks, where are the gaps anyway ?

Chris.

Gaps certainly exist even if you use stockbooks or design your own page. Country collections for one are the ones with the gaps for the older material. Thematically may exist as well as well as other areas. As a world collector, I certainly have gaps of entire countries which are not monetarily feasible for myself at present to buy outright.



It is not flawed but your argument is. I only collect postal used/CTO stamps and some of the prices for specific countries are out of my reach. If i get those same stamps (which are of different look and feel of printed paper) as a replica which is clearly marked as such, I'm all for it. I don't have gaps which could be filled for $10 which is why replicas are a god send to me. Supporting replicas is not removing support from real dealers, but of course people in ivory towers fail to see at what normal middle and lower class people have to complain about.

Katchem_ash, you continue to collect what you want and in whatever form you want- that is your right and desire.

Many of us disagree with your 'right and desire'- that's life.

There would appear to be a consensus that a 'stamp collection' can include forgeries and copies that have been produced to defraud the postal authorities and have subsequently been used for postal purposes.

There also appears to be a dismay at including in a 'stamp collection' an item that has been duplicated, replicated, copied but has not actually been entered into the postal system and used for postal purposes.

Surely that is the baseline.

I can go through the various catalogues and photocopy their images, mount them in an album and proclaim that I have a complete collection of ( name a country)

What a sham

As I said earlier. I collect what I can. If I do not have the cash then I leave a blank although as one poster did say, I also consider spacefillers that come into my possession. I know they are not up to scratch, and more importantly when my heirs decide to sell my collection, the appraiser will also understand they are not up to scratch.

I collect stamps, not replicas, photocopies, laser prints or catalogue cutouts.
You don't need to live in an ivory tower to know that having those mixed in with your stamps just nullifies the whole experience.

Do you want to leave a half decent collection to be handed on? Then leave the copies out.

If you want to be selfish and take it with you, then just go buy a colour catalgoue and you have the whole world in 6 volumes already.

As to gaps in stockbooks and hand made album pages, what planet are you on?
You design you own page, leave out what you don't like or can't afford and no one knows it's missing.

As for classic forgeries used as a reference collection they already have a place in album, the "back of the book". That's where they really should be and not mixed in with any real ones.

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Greg - Looking for Goulburn Australia Cancels and Grangemouth Scotland Cancels and Covers
Member of the S.T.A.M.P Club for Slightly Twisted And Mad Philatelists - Motto: "Bring back the lick!"

Katchem_ash.

judging from the questions you ask,

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=36950

could I ask you how many weeks you have been collecting stamps,

David B.

I've been collection since the early 90's. So it would be around 25 years or so. Documentation of the stamps began in last year. Any problem with that?

katchem,

judging by your questions you appear to be a newbie collector with very little philatelic knowledge which may explain the reasoning for your liking of so called " Stamp Replicas " which are despised by the every advanced collector,

David B.

I am not a "newbie collector". As I've said before, I've been collecting for 25 years and I've just started documenting a year ago. I collect world wide not specific collections like yourself. That's why my questions might be too "newbie" for you.

katchem,

there is no graduation period from a " newbie collector " to an advanced collector, sometimes it takes decades, even from the 1990's,

David B.

Sorry, katch.. but I have to disagree with you big time... I'd rather have the hole in my collection reminding me that I have something to TRY to aim for, rather than some fake picture (which is all I consider replicas) taking it's place.

And as noted, all the disreputable persons who will try to sell replicas as the real thing...

(of course, i feel the same way about Giclee's being sold by art dealers.. I refuse to buy one, because i want the real thing if I'm ever able to get my hands on one.)

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Collector of many moons ago... now back in the hobby.
Do I know what I want? Absolutely... anything I can get my hands on

Pakistani Math might be different from the one I was taught.

In 2012 that makes 20 years or less. Not 25 years. No way.



Agree,

I started in 1990. Its around 22 years. Hence my wording "25 years or SO". "SO" does not mean exact. It might be less or more.

David, they are also despised by some of us fledgeling collectors as well.

I inherited a collection from my Grandmother and among it were plenty of fakes that some snake oil salesman duped this honest Woman into believing they were the real McCoy. I shudder to think of what they cost her.

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"Life is a tough Teacher, it gives you the test first and the lesson later"
Anonymous