Will the Scots vote to be Independent from the UK this time?

mrboggler · **Posted:** Tue Feb 21, 2012 07:41:07 am

Yeh But, Yeh But, think of all the GREAT new Stamps we would get

PeterS · **Posted:** Tue Feb 21, 2012 07:59:15 am

mrboggler wrote:

Yeh But, Yeh But, think of all the GREAT new Stamps we would get

Yet another reason to want it to not happen!

mrboggler · **Posted:** Tue Feb 21, 2012 08:27:55 am

But thats what would help prop up the Country for the next 100 years,

Britcollector · **Posted:** Tue Feb 21, 2012 09:38:41 am

The start-up costs would be tremendous:

- Hundreds of new embassies and consulates to rent and staff
- Command and control functions for the armed forces
- Endless treaties to negotiate. Postal agreements to fishing quotas. Extradition treaties
- Import duties and restrictions to decide and publish. Customs and Excise to set up. Border posts too.
- Military academies to train officers
- Joining the UN and EEC and setting up offices

North Sea oil or not, That sound like $$$$

BIGANDYN · **Posted:** Wed Feb 22, 2012 08:00:47 am

Britcollector wrote:

Something else occurred to me after reading the whole topic from the start. If my understanding is correct:

- Mr. Cameron's Conservatives enjoy little support in Scotland, while Mr. Miliband's Labour party has significant support in Scotland.

Very true

Britcollector wrote:

- The Labour support in Scotland is large enough that its loss would hurt the British Labour Party badly and perhaps diminish its ability to contest elections in the future.

No bad thing in my view

Britcollector wrote:

- But independence for Scotland would have little effect on the Conservatives but be deadly to Labour.

Very true

mrboggler · **Posted:** Wed Feb 22, 2012 08:14:13 am

Britcollector wrote:

The start-up costs would be tremendous:

- Hundreds of new embassies and consulates to rent and staff
- Command and control functions for the armed forces
- Endless treaties to negotiate. Postal agreements to fishing quotas. Extradition treaties
- Import duties and restrictions to decide and publish. Customs and Excise to set up. Border posts too.
- Military academies to train officers
- Joining the UN and EEC and setting up offices

North Sea oil or not, That sound like $$$$

I don,t think it would be as expensive as one thinks,

Every city in the World has many PUBS all we would need would be a small corner from which Embassies could be set up.and from the same corner.all treaties would be negotiated over a jar or two.

The central command for the Armed Forces already function out of similar buildings,all over the World as it is,so no change there,

all training has been held in these premisies over the last 400 years, so again no change,

As for the UN and EEC they can have the other corner and should be able to work hand in hand with our Lads quite well, as long as they rememeber whos round it is,

PeterS · **Posted:** Wed Feb 22, 2012 08:31:43 am

That will work really well with Muslim countries, Ron, really well.

mrboggler · **Posted:** Wed Feb 22, 2012 09:17:48 am

ah weel thir either wi or agin us :lol:

PeterS · **Posted:** Wed Feb 22, 2012 09:27:48 am

There goes any chance of joining OPEC. :lol:

douglas5102 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 22, 2012 13:38:12 pm

As a outsider non-scotsman or Britain wasn't Scotland a independent nation prior to 1712? (the union) Can't Scotland send the bill to England for all the abuses England did prior to 1700's in Scotland?

Edward longshanks king of england in the 1300's comes to mind (I think I got that correct?) I think they will vote to be independent, as they were not happy to unite with England in 1712.

jjarmstrong47 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 22, 2012 19:36:49 pm

What I wonder is whether, like Canada, Scotland would become an independent republic but stay in the Commonwealth in which case the Queen, as head of the Commonwealth, would still have a role.

Or will they stay as a monarchy but get rid of the Battenburgs all together and reinstate the Scottish pretender (I believe one still exists).

As for worrying about an army, why bother. Nobody who has been to Glasgow on a Saturday night would think of invading.

Britcollector · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 01:41:18 am

Mr. Boggler,
Scots cannot use pubs for Embassies - The Republic of Ireland is already set up there.

jj,
There are plenty of pretenders to the throne of Scotland, according to Google.

Everyone,
Should Stampboards run a contest for future stamp designs?

Global Administrator · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 01:57:45 am

Britcollector wrote:

jj,
There are plenty of pretenders to the throne of Scotland, according to Google.

I feel sure the first KING OF SCOTLAND for a few 100 years will be either Billy Connelly or Sean Connery or Mr Boggler ... flown in from Exile in Melbourne .. it makes sense. :mrgreen:

gavin-h · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 05:47:54 am

douglas5102 wrote:

Can't Scotland send the bill to England for all the abuses England did prior to 1700's in Scotland?

Yeah, and we'll send them the bill for the welfare/benefits they've claimed ever since.

And Scotland will end up owing England money :wink:

PeterS · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 06:38:16 am

jjarmstrong47 wrote:

What I wonder is whether, like Canada, Scotland would become an independent republic but stay in the Commonwealth in which case the Queen, as head of the Commonwealth, would still have a role.

Canada is not a Republic, still has a Governor General last time I looked. India is a republic, though, and remains in the Commonwealth.

The question is, if the ungrateful wretches were to choose independence, would we want to be associated with them in the Commonwealth??

rob1962 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 07:02:13 am

I think it is right that the Scots have the final say on this, although I expect them to reject independence this time.

Although I am English I do think of myself more as British (and even more so as "Londoner"

.

Britcollector · **Posted:** Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:34:50 am

I wonder if the other areas of GB could weary of this endless wall of noise from the north and vote to sling them out?

I have little knowledge of the Act of Union, but surely if one of the component members can vote to secede, the other can vote to separate from them. (?)

Highlander · **Posted:** Wed Feb 29, 2012 22:40:06 pm

As a "local" I honestly thought Donald Trump ran things up here and had final say :lol:

douglas5102 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 15, 2012 09:00:21 am

Didn't Sir William Wallace fight for Scotland to be free of England? I believe he was drawn and quartered for freedom. Isn't it time to end English rule? Although as the colony that threw out the Birtish in 1776, I think William Wallace if he were alive would invade England again.

PeterS · **Posted:** Thu Mar 15, 2012 09:07:32 am

Hollywood has so much to answer for!! :roll:

gooner · **Posted:** Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:53:14 am

I am pretty much in tune with Gavin-H's response back on Feb 17th but would go further:
My two wishes for ENGLISH referenda questions over the next couple of years:

1. Do you want to leave the European Union?
2. Do you want to expel Scotland from the UK?

Both would get a resounding YES from me.

I know I'm living in dreamland but at least I can hope that the Scots vote to leave in 2015.

PS I have nothing against Scots people in particular or in general - but if they gain independence from us I see my taxes going down by about 20%

BIGANDYN · **Posted:** Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:08:19 am

gooner wrote:

1. Do you want to leave the European Union?

Now that would get a resounding YES from me.

Global Administrator · **Posted:** Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:12:12 pm

PeterS wrote:

The question is, if the ungrateful wretches were to choose independence, would we want to be associated with them in the Commonwealth??

Look we make graciously tolerate NEW ZEALAND, so the Scots are not too much worse surely? :lol:

Both difficult to understand of course due to their primitive dialects, so the cost of sub-titles at Conferences will not be small. :mrgreen:

PeterS · **Posted:** Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:16:18 pm

True, but at least New Zealanders speak a form of English! :lol:

Global Administrator · **Posted:** Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:21:23 pm

PeterS wrote:

True, but at least New Zealanders speak a form of English! :lol:

Well I am flying there tomorrow, and take my English/Kiwi dictionary each time.

It is hard going in many places. Simple sign language often works well.

They are heavily inbred. They all call each other "bro" - which is VERY bad for the genetics. Bit like the Highlands really. One reason they migrate over here to open up the gene pool a lot.

PeterS · **Posted:** Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:48:52 pm

Global Administrator wrote:

One reason they migrate over here to open up the gene pool a lot.

The main reason they come over here is because we actually have an economy that (despite the best efforts of the current government) is strong and works. And the dollars they send back to the 'Bros' are worth 30% more

gavin-h · **Posted:** Fri Mar 16, 2012 06:05:47 am

Global Administrator wrote:

Look we make graciously tolerate NEW ZEALAND, so the Scots are not too much worse surely? :lol:

Easy for you to say - you've got a THOUSAND miles of water between you and NZ.

The Scots are JOINED ON to us. And the wall's not holding :wink:

locakart · **Posted:** Fri Mar 16, 2012 06:12:33 am

gavin-h wrote:

Global Administrator wrote:

Look we make graciously tolerate NEW ZEALAND, so the Scots are not too much worse surely? :lol:

Easy for you to say - you've got a THOUSAND miles of water between you and NZ.

The Scots are JOINED ON to us. And the wall's not holding :wink:

I do get very annoyed by this kind of Daily Mail / Sun little Englander cr@p!

gavin-h · **Posted:** Fri Mar 16, 2012 06:16:17 am

locakart wrote:

I do get very annoyed by this kind of Daily Mail / Sun little Englander cr@p!

Oh, for goodness sake, loosen your stays :!:

It's called humour :wink:

PeterS · **Posted:** Fri Mar 16, 2012 06:27:37 am

gavin-h wrote:

Global Administrator wrote:

Look we make graciously tolerate NEW ZEALAND, so the Scots are not too much worse surely? :lol:

Easy for you to say - you've got a THOUSAND miles of water between you and NZ.

The Scots are JOINED ON to us. And the wall's not holding :wink:

The trouble is, our navy is all in the northwest, intercepting other boatfulls of refugees! So the refugees from those 2 big islands to the southeast of us get through every time.

Global Administrator · **Posted:** Fri Mar 16, 2012 06:38:36 am

Well NZ sold their Navy on ebay.

They have 3 canoes and a jet-ski left. They figured no-one was even going to want to breach THEIR borders, so think of the savings. :mrgreen:

ivqii · **Posted:** Fri Mar 16, 2012 06:39:58 am

locakart wrote:

gavin-h wrote:

Global Administrator wrote:

Look we make graciously tolerate NEW ZEALAND, so the Scots are not too much worse surely? :lol:

Easy for you to say - you've got a THOUSAND miles of water between you and NZ.

The Scots are JOINED ON to us. And the wall's not holding :wink:

I do get very annoyed by this kind of Daily Mail / Sun little Englander cr@p!

Jeeez -when did you have the bypass? :roll:

PeterS · **Posted:** Fri Mar 16, 2012 07:05:56 am

Global Administrator wrote:

Well NZ sold their Navy on ebay.

They have 3 canoes and a jet-ski left. They figured no-one was even going to want to breach THEIR borders, so think of the savings. :mrgreen:

I used to work at Williamstown Naval Dockyard here in Melbourne (more years ago than I care to remember!). We had just finished building the FFG class Frigates and were waiting to start the ANZAC class.

NZ had committed to 2 ships in the class. Then they tried to wriggle out and cancel them. They had to be strong-armed by the Australian Government, from memory, into living up to commitments.

If those 2 ships had not been built then the cost of the 6 being built for the RAN would have had to absorb all the additional costs.

Britcollector · **Posted:** Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:38:38 pm

Are you drifting away from the subject ?

Britcollector · **Posted:** Sun Apr 15, 2012 02:20:32 am

The Economist weighs in

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ndent.html

Scotland's leading independence campaigner Alex Salmond has lambasted a top financial magazine for claiming the country will end up like Greece if it leaves the United Kingdom.

In an astonishing attack, Mr Salmond, the First Minister of Scotland, said The Economist would 'rue the day' it printed the 'sneering' front-page article.

The piece (see below), which is headlined 'Skintland', tells Scots they will become one of 'Europe's most vulnerable, marginal economies' if they vote for independence in the 2014 referendum.

*****

It warns that Scotland's North Sea oil will start to dry up in the next decade, its borrowing costs will be much higher, and entry to the European will not be automatic. 'After the banking and eurozone crises, Scotland would be far more vulnerable to shocks as a nation of five million people than as part of a diversified economy of 62 million,' write the authors.

'There is an irony here: to preserve a distinctively open-handed Scottish social model, staying in the Union might be the safest choice.'

A spoof map of Scotland renames Edinburgh 'Edinborrow', and twins it with Athens.

Furious Mr Salmond, of the Scottish National Party, told a local radio station: 'It just insults every single community in Scotland.

'This doesn't represent England. Goodness sake, I wouldn't insult the people of England the way The Economist believes it should insult the communities of Scotland. This is a particular strata of London society.

'It's not a very attractive strata. They're not even funny. If it was a decent joke we'd have a laugh at it. This is just plain insults.'

But Scottish Conservative constitution spokesman David McLetchie said 'The SNP would be better advised to answer the important points made in the article.

'Instead, they are manufacturing outrage at anyone who dares to question their perspective that a separate Scotland would be a land of milk and honey.

'Is this is the level of debate we're going to get from them while we wait for their referendum?'

************

That is what the Daily Mail says. The above link contains a condensed version of the article in the Economist.

admin · **Posted:** Sun Apr 15, 2012 02:24:51 am

"Inamess" - isn't that the new UK capital? :mrgreen:

gavin-h · **Posted:** Sun Apr 15, 2012 03:57:26 am

admin wrote:

"Inamess" - isn't that the new UK capital? :mrgreen:

Yeah, they're planning a back-door devaluation of the currency by rounding everything to the nearest five or ten :wink:

Acacia Gum · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2012 23:15:26 pm

Well I have lived and worked all over the place. I moved to Scotland 11 years ago.

Why because housing is much cheaper. I think that Scotland should go alone I am afraid to say that London has become devorced from the rest of Britain.

People feel that we are being sucked dry by London and thats not only the Scots.

The education system is not constantly being messed around with.

My Daughter and husband moved here they are both working and my grandchildren settled in easily. Having lived in Merseyside I had no problem with the Scots dry sense of humour.

So What do the Scots, do well they farm excellent beef and lamb, Whiskey, Fish,cheese,Oil is only a small part of the Scottish economy.

The main thing at the moment is we have water, they complain about the rain in scotland so now whos complaining.

I think the wee Alex should stand outside the houses of Parliament pouring water down the drain!!!!

Jack · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2012 23:54:32 pm

That is what the Daily Mail says...

But no-one believes the 'Daily Mail', let alone reads such Tory trash...

Britcollector · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2012 00:50:10 am

The article was published in The Economist.

gooner · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2012 01:20:06 am

Jack wrote:

But no-one believes the 'Daily Mail', let alone reads such Tory trash...

Wrong on three counts then?
Doesn't originate from the Daily Mail
No-one reads it - you must or you wouldn't have seen the article copied from the Economist
It's Tory trash.

It has a readership of millions .... who believe's what's written in any paper in general.
It is probably better than most of the comics (Sun, Mirror, Star etc ... could call these Labour Trash)
The DM is not so much Tory as ... whinging .. it always seems to present the negative points of everything but it is good for a laugh. They also have the best sport feature writer in the business.

hatter · **Posted:** Fri Apr 20, 2012 01:34:48 am

Quote:

People feel that we are being sucked dry by London and thats not only the Scots

wrong way round !, London and Londoners contribute more Tax than is spent on greater London.

Something to do with the higher incomes and excessive Council Tax probbaly.

and No, I don't live in London, but it is becoming an issue in the Boris v Ken stand off on 3rd May - otherwise known as the Mayoral election

stampmogul · **Posted:** Sat Apr 21, 2012 15:01:07 pm

Neil Oliver was the presenter of several thought provoking TV series, including the best one - The History Of Scotland.

My thoughts & feelings are that the Brits subjected these people to famine & war many times. With superior tactics they won most of the major conflicts to dominate the northerners.

My best wishes go to today's citizens of Scotland in whatever they decide. If it was me voting I would separate fully from union with Britain, and am amazed that parts of Ireland haven't been fully reclaimed by the Irish nation, too.
As for the Welsh, today they seem so dependent for mere day-to-day survival on the English handouts that they can't leave the British "union".

Viva la independence !!

Acacia Gum · **Posted:** Sun Apr 22, 2012 00:52:27 am

The Scots in fact have always been independent the papers were never signed.

Britcollector · **Posted:** Wed Oct 10, 2012 00:29:16 am

Daily Telegraph today:

Nine in ten Scots 'living off state's patronage'

Almost nine out of 10 Scottish households take more from the public purse than they contribute in taxes thanks to a “rotten system” of state patronage, the Tory party conference will hear on Monday.

Acacia Gum · **Posted:** Wed Oct 10, 2012 00:47:16 am

My family and I live in Scotland , all the people are hard working this is a rural area.
Scotland is independent its always been so, what they are asking for is fiscal independence.
Its a case of population looking at the numbers more people live in London than the whole of Scotland.This week we have military exercises, which take place often here with troops from around the world, so low flying aircraft is a daily occurance, War ships in the bay, where else will England park its nuclear subs??? in the Thames.Looking at the Tory conference I think they are playing into Alex Salmons hands. I forsee trouble ahead and it wont be the Scots they have to worry about.

Global Administrator · **Posted:** Wed Oct 10, 2012 01:06:50 am

Britcollector wrote:

Daily Telegraph today:

Nine in ten Scots 'living off state's patronage'

Almost nine out of 10 Scottish households take more from the public purse than they contribute in taxes thanks to a “rotten system” of state patronage, the Tory party conference will hear on Monday.

Is there a link to this?

Feebletodix · **Posted:** Wed Oct 10, 2012 01:13:42 am

Global Administrator wrote:

Britcollector wrote:

Daily Telegraph today:

Nine in ten Scots 'living off state's patronage'

Almost nine out of 10 Scottish households take more from the public purse than they contribute in taxes thanks to a “rotten system” of state patronage, the Tory party conference will hear on Monday.

Is there a link to this?

Google'd "Daily Telegraph" & "Scottish" and got a link to this page:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/9593135/Nine-in-ten-Scots-living-off-states-patronage.html

Global Administrator · **Posted:** Wed Oct 10, 2012 03:24:54 am

Britcollector wrote:

Daily Telegraph today:

Nine in ten Scots 'living off state's patronage'

Almost nine out of 10 Scottish households take more from the public purse than they contribute in taxes thanks to a “rotten system” of state patronage, the Tory party conference will hear on Monday.

OK now I actually read the article and not the tabloid headline I see some FACTS and not hype -

According to the most recent figures, Scotland contributed 9.6 per cent of Britain’s tax take and accounted for 9.3 per cent of public spending.

However, those in the top 10 per cent pay £17,205 more in tax than they receive in public services.

Kenny Gibson, a Nationalist MSP, described it as Miss Davidson’s “Mitt Romney moment”. He added: “At least Mitt Romney only insulted around half of Americans, while Ruth Davidson believes almost 90 per cent of Scots do not 'contribute’ to society.”

Britcollector · **Posted:** Tue Oct 16, 2012 09:52:34 am

Some news. It seems that Mr. Cameron has agreed to:

A 2014 referendum date
Voting allowed for 16 years old and up
A simple "yes/no" question


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Will the Scots vote to be Independent from the UK this time?

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