In 48 hours, Australia could save one million square kms of

nieves · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:59:04 pm

the Coral Sea.
This is going around on the internet now: http://www.avaaz.org/en/save_the_coral_sea_4/?sbc. I was just wondering what you Australians were thinking on the subject???? Is the measure really in danger of not passing?

compoundperf · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 13:25:07 pm

I would sincerely HOPE NOT , Try Telling the People who live daily on what they Catch to Eat they can`t fish any more.

Also I think Australia has enough restrictions in this area and more are planned , this is GREEN MADNESS once again a TOTAL joke in my opinion and some thing like Bob Brown and HIS band of clowns would come up with

C . P .

huanga · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 13:30:33 pm

Incorporated in the state of Delaware, with offices in Broadway, NY. Plus a mountain of conditions and reasons why you cannot get very far into who they are. However its not my sea!

Huanga.

Allanswood · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 14:37:14 pm

Well the site didn't explain much and what they call the "Coral Sea" we would understand more as the "Great Barrier Reef" which already has major areas protected.
Some of their 1 million sq km may even fall outside our borders as that is a huge area of sea.
Their not very specific as to what they mean by the area and the protection asked for.

The Marine Park/World Heritage Area sits on 348,000km sq already.

We would be fools to risk damaging a world heritage area and a major source of tourism income - so exactly what are they asking when we already do protect that area? :roll:

And if you want to protest and put your point across, you don't wait until there are just 2 days to go on something that has been in the pipeline for over a year! :shock:

By the way, it may be unrelated, but when I tried to look up a bit of their backround "about us", my internet "crashed" for about 20 minutes and shut the whole office down. Do I don't know about the buttons to click. :?:

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 16:52:36 pm

Wait until 48hours before a public consultation ends to advocate, brilliant. :roll:

The group supporting this motion, Avaaz, was profiled by The Guardian,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/20/avaaz-activism-slactivism-clicktivism

as being a group of 20 core activists scattered around the world who endorse "clicktivism", people thinking they're doing something to change the world through a couple mouseclicks.

Then there's more general feedback:

Quote:

Don’t sign Avaaz.org petitions

That's the headline of a blog entry written in 2007, with a lot of follow-up comments from other users that they started being spammed after joining something on avaaz.org.
http://verbo.se/dont-sign-avaazorg-petitions

And how big are they talking about when they say "1 million square km"? Countries of the world and their area:

Egypt 1,002,000
Venezuela 912,050
Pakistan 796,095
Turkey 783,562
Ukraine 603,500
Madagascar 587,041
France 551,500
Spain 505,370

Tassie_Stamps · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 16:58:00 pm

Here is a something GJ50 said in another thread - This has been sent around in chain emails I think, but it really gets you thinking about the environment.

GJ50 wrote:

BEING GREEN

Checking-out at the store, the young cashier suggested to the older woman that she should bring her own shopping bags because plastic bags weren't good for the environment.

The woman apologized and explained, "We didn't have this green thing back in my earlier days."

The cashier responded, "That's our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment for future generations."

She was right -- our generation didn't have the green thing in its day.

Back then, we returned milk bottles, fizz bottles and beer bottles to the store.
The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over... so they really were recycled.
We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

We walked up stairs, because we didn't have an escalator in every shop and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.

But she was right. We didn't have the green thing in our day.

Back then, we washed the baby's nappies because we didn't have the throw-away kind.
We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy gobbling machine burning up 220 volts -- wind and solar power really did dry our clothes back in our early days.
Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing.

But that young lady is right. We didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house -- not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of the county of Yorkshire .
In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us.
When we packaged a fragile item to send in the post, we used wadded up old newspapers to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap.
Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn petrol just to cut the lawn.
We used a push mower that ran on human power.
We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.

But she's right. We didn't have the green thing back then.

We drank water from a fountain or a tap when we were thirsty instead of demanding a plastic bottle flown in from another country.
We accepted that a lot of food was seasonal and didn’t expect that to be bucked by flying it thousands of air miles around the world.
We actually cooked food that didn’t come out of a packet, tin or plastic wrap and we could even wash our own vegetables and chop our own salad.

But we didn't have the green thing back then.

Back then, people took the tram or a bus, and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their mothers into a 24-hour taxi service.
We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 2,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest pizza joint.
But isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the green thing back then?

Please forward this on to another selfish old person who needs a lesson in conservation from a smart-ass young person.

Remember: Don't make old people mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off. And Look-and-Learn... you'll be old yourself before you know it!

PS - Help the environment and don't print this unless you really need to!

I always try to do as much as possible to support the environment. There are a heap of little things everyone can do that make a BIG difference.

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 17:04:31 pm

A good example of how obtuse companies can be towards environmental protection (and also how corporate policies, panicked fears of hygiene, and all the like can take over rational thinking) was reported in the news in Canada recently...

Coffee shops such as Starbucks, and also donut chains, encourage customers to bring their own coffee cup (usually a travel mug). A patron went to McDonald's and handed their travel mug to the cashier, saying they would use that to avoid the need for a paper cup.

What does the cashier do? She fills a paper cup with coffee, then pours the coffee into the mug, and throws the paper cup in the trash. :roll:

Tassie_Stamps · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 17:16:46 pm

aethelwulf wrote:

What does the cashier do? She fills a paper cup with coffee, then pours the coffee into the mug, and throws the paper cup in the trash. :roll:

What idiots. :lol:

I agree that bringing your own cup/mug/travel mug into a cafe is a great idea. Not only is it good for the environment, but it saves the cafe owner some money on cups/lids, and Cafe's often pass a 50c saving onto customers who bring their own travel mug.

Win-Win-Win for everyone.

A lot of cafe's around here use Bio Cup compostable coffee cups anyway.

http://biopak.com.au/index.php

Tassie_Stamps · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 17:26:08 pm

So what else can we do that's good for the environment & reduces global warming?

- Support only certified Ecotourism businesses.

- Use public transport.

- Don't litter. Or sweep any leaves, rubbish or dog poo etc into your street drains.

- Join a conservation group.

- Don't use any chemicals in your garden.

- Plant native plants in your garden.

- Don't water your garden constantly, it's wasteful.

- Install a rainwater tank.

- Have 2 minute showers.

- Recycle! Most councils have kerbside recycling facilities. Buy stamps and receive thick rigid cardboard as part of the packaging? Keep it! Use it when mailing stamps to others.

- All Australia Post Tough Bags and Padded Bags can be put out with kerbside recycling.

- Do you have old towels? Sheets? Curtains? Clothes in poor condition? Call your local charity.

Many charities have a program where they cut up old clothes in poor condition and sell them in kg lots to a mechanic for use as rags.

- When disposing of things such as motor oil, solvents, old paint, and other chemicals, contact your local tip or council as they often have programmes in place for recycling of old chemicals.

- Use organice produce. It's better for you and the environment!

- Buy fish that are being caught sustainably - Many fishmongers will advertise which species are sustainable.

There is always plenty more you can do, just research it.
Hope the above tips help some members.

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 17:40:04 pm

Tassie_Stamps wrote:

- Use public transport.

And when encouraging the person holding the hanging strap whilst wearing a sleeveless shirt and suffering a case of Body Odour to use deodorant, remind them to use a non-aerosol spray. :mrgreen:

Quote:

- Join a conservation group.

Hopefully one that doesn't send out mountains of printed junk mail to advocate saving rainforests cut down for pulp and paper. :roll:

Quote:

- Plant native plants in your garden.

Choose carefully, you don't want to look out the window one morning and say "Uh oh, the natives are restless."

Quote:

- Have 2 minute showers.

"Save water, shower with someone." :lol:

I wonder how well that would go with admin in a co-ed college dorm...

Quote:

- Recycle! Most councils have kerbside recycling facilities. Buy stamps and receive thick rigid cardboard as part of the packaging? Keep it! Use it when mailing stamps to others.

Unless its one of those noob sellers who uses a cut-up cereral box, or a piece of corrugated carton. :evil:

While I do keep a drawer full of cardboard stiffeners received in eBay purchases to re-use, I send the lousy scraps from lazy sellers where they should have gone in the first place (or where the seller dug them out of), the recycling bin.

Tassie_Stamps · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 17:46:27 pm

Love your response.

huanga · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 18:33:29 pm

These days it is difficult to know who and what to believe when it comes to the environment. A couple of years ago one of my two local supermarkets decided to stop packing purchases in the free plastic bags. Instead they offered to sell customers a plastic based 'cloth' bag, or add a charge of 10 cents per their bag to shopping bills.

As I said, we have two supermarkets! NW lost and soon had to reinstate the free bags. However, in between this PR disaster. I had been fishing down south and happened to chat to an angler who lectured at one of the east coast universities, and his subject lecture was..............the environment!!

We got to chatting and at some point I mentioned that I use coal and would normally throw 2 or 3 shovelful into a plastic bag, and then on to the fire. It heats my water and my house. He asked how many I would use. I told him about three bags a day for three month of the year. his answer was.I could double that number and use for twelve month of the year and it would still do less damage to the environment that one fart from a cow!!

Now given the choice of who to believe. An angler or a spotty faced greenie in a beenie? I have to go with the angler.

Huanga.

Allanswood · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 18:54:03 pm

Both the farty angler and the greeenie with the beanie are wrong.
I don't think it's the cows fart, it's their belching. And there are many animals who chew the cud and belch methane gas. There are 7 bilion humans that fart to. :shock:

What else is wrong? Those woven (plastic!) "green" long lasting shopping bags for a dollar. They take longer to break down than the old plastic ones and in most cases have already been recycled once, so processing again is problematic.

They have had for the last few years (!) starch "plastic" biodegradable bags that are made from a plant by product. If they wanted to they could add a touch of fertilizer to them and you could toss them on the compost heap. More pricier than the old bags? No. So where are they?
The local supermarkets though in Canberra now use them as the old bags have been banned from the ACT entirely.

Then there was the guy who invented the fertilising golf ball tee (I think it was made of compressed mown grass). Instead of using wood or plastic. You hit your ball and the tee is designed to break apart when hit. It then fertilises the tee off area. You don't even bother bending down to pick it up and save your back a bit. Expensive? No. Where are they?

I could go on.

Catweazle · **Posted:** Thu Feb 23, 2012 22:17:27 pm

Rain water tanks and solar panels ought to be standard on new houses these days.

Oh, and did someone mention the Greens? I say nothing... :mrgreen:

Global Administrator · **Posted:** Fri Feb 24, 2012 14:25:10 pm

'It's tough being Green.'

Copyright - Kermit The Frog.

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Fri Feb 24, 2012 20:15:18 pm

When it comes to things like the old "paper or plastic?" decision for shopping bags, one can conduct an assessment of the "Eco Footprint", the overall impact on the environment a product has.

Plastic bags are considered 'bad' as they're derived from petroleum, they don't bio-degrade...but on the other hand,

Paper bags are produced by cutting down trees, pulp & paper manufacturing has effluent and water pollution...

Sometimes, there is no 'right' option, rather, one has to find the option with the 'least impact'.

A fee was introduced in HK a couple years ago, $0.50HKD for each shopping bag at the store. This was supposed to reduce the number of plastic bags people use. Results from the "plastic bag manufacturer's association" (yes, apparently there really is such a thing) are that overall production of plastic bags has actually gone up. :roll:

Places like bakeries have started single-bagging each and every bun, which gets around the bag tax, or large bottles of shower soap are sold in supermarkets in plastic bags with a handle in the top--again, that skirted the law against bags.


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