Share Your Britain Used In Ireland Stamp and Cover Images

chavander · **Posted:** Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:17:39 pm

Jay...with reference to the Irish Diamond Duplex Type Cancellations obliteraters or cancelers as they are sometimes called wore out or got lost or broken they where replaced by new ones not always of the same type as the ones they replaced.They fall into quite a few different category`s

Thick Bars and Thin Bars and these are further sub-divided into Tall or Squat diamonds and by a type that is Equal in height and width, the tall type is taller than it is wide and the squat type is wider than it is tall and a further sub-division is by the number of Bars above and below the numeral usually the same amount and by the number of Bars centrally opposite the numeral on each side again usually the same amount. Also there are thick and thin and and large and small numerals

That`s only the diamond numerals part of the duplex there are many variations on the c.d.s. part as well!!!

I will post some scans of the different types when i sort my new computer out...chavander

kerailija · **Posted:** Wed Apr 13, 2011 16:28:59 pm

Some nice cancellations here

Here's one from my misc worldwide collection:

Because of "box" shape I've always thought this as a parcel postmark. Am I correct?

Flying Tiger · **Posted:** Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:58:12 am

kerailija wrote:

Some nice cancellations here

Here's one from my misc worldwide collection:

Because of "box" shape I've always thought this as a parcel postmark. Am I correct?

I do not know what it is. I am sure that someone will have the answer though.

It is an interesting post mark

Flying Tiger · **Posted:** Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:59:57 am

chavander wrote:

Jay...with reference to the Irish Diamond Duplex Type Cancellations obliteraters or cancelers as they are sometimes called wore out or got lost or broken they where replaced by new ones not always of the same type as the ones they replaced.They fall into quite a few different category`s

Thick Bars and Thin Bars and these are further sub-divided into Tall or Squat diamonds and by a type that is Equal in height and width, the tall type is taller than it is wide and the squat type is wider than it is tall and a further sub-division is by the number of Bars above and below the numeral usually the same amount and by the number of Bars centrally opposite the numeral on each side again usually the same amount. Also there are thick and thin and and large and small numerals

That`s only the diamond numerals part of the duplex there are many variations on the c.d.s. part as well!!!

I will post some scans of the different types when i sort my new computer out...chavander

Sounds quite complex. What reference material is there describing and listing them?

I look forward to seeing the scans.

CMJ · **Posted:** Thu Apr 14, 2011 19:49:03 pm

kerailija wrote:

Some nice cancellations here

Here's one from my misc worldwide collection:

Because of "box" shape I've always thought this as a parcel postmark. Am I correct?

Amiens St Depot was the original name for the main railway station in Dublin, so I would assume that this was part of a parcel postmark applied at the station.

Chris.

CMJ · **Posted:** Thu Apr 14, 2011 19:58:48 pm

Quote:

Sounds quite complex. What reference material is there describing and listing them?

Jay,

I have a book called "The Postmarks of the British Isles 1840 to 1876" by John G Hendry published in 1909 in PDF format and this has a chapter on Ireland (10 pages). It gives examples of the various types but not necessarily dated.

The book is stated to be free of copyright restrictions (in the USA at least). Being new here, I wouldn't want to derail this thread (too much) by posting the scans. Should I start a new thread for that purpose or is it OK to add them here ?

Chris.

Flying Tiger · **Posted:** Thu Apr 14, 2011 23:00:26 pm

By all means, please feel free to add here!

tallanent · **Posted:** Thu Apr 14, 2011 23:26:53 pm

cmj wrote:

kerailija wrote:

Some nice cancellations here

Here's one from my misc worldwide collection:

Because of "box" shape I've always thought this as a parcel postmark. Am I correct?

Amiens St Depot was the original name for the main railway station in Dublin, so I would assume that this was part of a parcel postmark applied at the station.

Chris.

This postmark was used on parcels and larger packets. It is a roller cancellation designed to make the task easier on these larger items that usually had multiple stamps affixed..

CMJ · **Posted:** Thu Apr 14, 2011 23:58:30 pm

Flying Tiger wrote:

By all means, please feel free to add here!

Here goes then.

The book is entitled "The History of the The Postmarks of the British Isles from 1840 to 1876 compiled chiefly from official records" by The Late John G Hendry (curator of the record room General Post Office) and published in 1909.

Chapter 15 deals with Irish postmarks and has 10 pages....

CMJ · **Posted:** Fri Apr 15, 2011 00:02:10 am

CMJ · **Posted:** Fri Apr 15, 2011 00:02:42 am

CMJ · **Posted:** Fri Apr 15, 2011 00:04:02 am

CMJ · **Posted:** Fri Apr 15, 2011 00:04:48 am

CMJ · **Posted:** Fri Apr 15, 2011 00:06:41 am

joelk · **Posted:** Fri Apr 15, 2011 08:40:35 am

This one appears to have been used in Cork:

Flying Tiger · **Posted:** Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:57:31 am

cmj, there is a lot of information and history in those few pages. I found it quite interesting.

Flying Tiger · **Posted:** Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:58:18 am

joelk wrote:

This one appears to have been used in Cork:

Another nice example, Joel.

CMJ · **Posted:** Fri Apr 15, 2011 19:14:17 pm

joelk wrote:

This one appears to have been used in Cork:

A lovely example of the 156 Cork numeral and on a wing margin stamp that, thankfully, hasn't been cut down and re-perfed.

I was looking for a "156" to carry on the chain but couldn't find one. The best I can do is a Cork Maltese Cross.

I could, however, find an example of the 157 numeral from Cove on a pair.

Again a single cancel (a bit smudged) cancelling two stamps - this pair has been partially separated before use (I think).

Chris.

Flying Tiger · **Posted:** Mon Apr 18, 2011 01:13:52 am

½d Jubilee used in Cork

Flying Tiger · **Posted:** Mon Apr 18, 2011 01:27:13 am

Another ½d Jubilee. This one was used in Limerick.

joelk · **Posted:** Mon Apr 18, 2011 03:13:10 am

OK, this one was used in Middelton. Quite topical, with the Royal wedding coming up... :lol:

Flying Tiger · **Posted:** Mon Apr 18, 2011 03:29:28 am

joelk wrote:

OK, this one was used in Middelton. Quite topical, with the Royal wedding coming up... :lol:

I like it

joelk · **Posted:** Tue Apr 19, 2011 05:24:04 am

Thanks Jay!

Here's a cover I found, sent from Dublin to India in 1881. It was posted on Jan 6 (or 8, hard to read), and arrived Jan 25. It probably would not be that much faster today...

honza · **Posted:** Tue Apr 19, 2011 07:33:33 am

Ahoj there!

I am going to put this scan into Allan's postmark database, but it fits in here as well.

Honza

joelk · **Posted:** Tue Apr 19, 2011 07:49:34 am

Gorgeous cancel Honza! It also belongs in Tooler's SOTN thread!

Flying Tiger · **Posted:** Tue Apr 19, 2011 08:00:07 am

That is a great cancel, Honza.

Joel is correct, it also belongs on the SOTN thread

Flying Tiger · **Posted:** Tue Apr 19, 2011 08:04:31 am

joelk wrote:

Thanks Jay!

Here's a cover I found, sent from Dublin to India in 1881. It was posted on Jan 6 (or 8, hard to read), and arrived Jan 25. It probably would not be that much faster today...

You are probably correct regarding the time to get from Ireland to India. I am suprised that it made the journey that fast.

I can't read the handwriting, but the cover looks like it is addressed to someone associated with a railroad.

Nice cover, by the way. You post nice material.

joelk · **Posted:** Tue Apr 19, 2011 08:14:00 am

Thank you Jay! It seems this cover was address to a Richard Spring, Resident Engineer at that railway.

CMJ · **Posted:** Wed Apr 20, 2011 01:48:02 am

Two examples of the 105 numeral cancel used in Carrick on Suir, Co Tipperary with different coloured inks - only black ink was supposed to be used for cancelling stamps, whilst the date stamp that also had to be applied to the cover could be in any colour. Many offices not surprisingly found it easier to use only one ink pad (the coloured one) for both purposes.

The first in dark blue

and the second in a greeny blue

Chris.

joelk · **Posted:** Wed Apr 20, 2011 06:44:48 am

This one is nice. Linus (my cat, on the right in my avatar) was kind enough to jump down from my knees as I'm posting this, so I can get up and look it up in the Whitney.

Amazingly, it's a new world rarity: number 981 does not show up in the Whitney!

Then I just realized it's upside down... :shock:

Dublin it is then... :oops:

A little bit less exotic I'm afraid. Still, a nice stamp with a great cancel.

Oh, and Linus is back!

chavander · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2011 09:01:59 am

S.G. 43 1d. red plate 166 lettered S-C Irish Post Office numeral 5 for Ardee County Louth Republic of Ireland.

1 of over 1100 (yes eleven hundred ) images of S.G.43/44 1d. red plates i have just uploaded to photobucket not all different offices for instance 400 odd dublins 70 odd belfasts 1s and 2s and 10`s of other offices but well over 300 different offices represented, rare scarce and common postmarks and plates and also a fair amount of stamps with obvious irish diamond duplex`s but numerals unreadable/incomplete

i will drip feed a few of the better ones also some penny blacks and surface printed irish stuff ,all this stuff is from my own collection.

Chavander

chavander · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2011 09:20:08 am

S.G. 43 1d. red plate 225, the rare one especially used in Ireland, with P.O.numeral 214 for Enniskillen County Fermanagh lettered Q-L

said to be 1 of only 5 examples known used in Ireland although it is well off centre `tis a rare beast ,plate number 225 can be read down left hand side

Chavander

chavander · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2011 09:44:02 am

1d. red plate 224 P.O. numeral 62 for Belfast lettered O-K

nowhere near as rare as 225 but still a difficult plate to find used in Ireland...and JAY note the thick bars this type is known as THICK TALL 434 that is thick bars and whole postmark is taller than wide and there are 4 bars, only 3 are showing in this example but there is a tiny 4th bar showing as a small triangle in better examples, above and below numeral and 3 bars to each side...plate number 224 can be seen clearly down right hand side.

Chavander

chavander · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:14:47 am

i was looking through a dealers list when i came upon this...

with this description...

THE RARE DISTINCTIVE WESTPORT MALTESE CROSS IN RED ON 1d MULREADY ENVELOPE; 6/7 July 1840 usage of the 1d Black Mulready envelope (Stereo A182; some creasing at top just clear of MX - unusually with original contents) from "Westport" to Stowmarket cancelled by a very fine and distinctively thin-lined orange-red Maltese Cross, having a mainly very fine black "WESTPORT" c.d.s. on the reverse. This special Maltese Cross is recorded by Alcock and Holland and Rockoff/Jackson record only 3 examples, none in red.

hmm..very interesting...because i have this penny black on piece in my collection (see my next post)...Westport by the way is in County Mayo Republic of Ireland

Chavander...see next post

Flying Tiger · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:16:14 am

chavander wrote:

1d. red plate 224 P.O. numeral 62 for Belfast lettered O-K

nowhere near as rare as 225 but still a difficult plate to find used in Ireland...and JAY note the thick bars this type is known as THICK TALL 434 that is thick bars and whole postmark is taller than wide and there are 4 bars, only 3 are showing in this example but there is a tiny 4th bar showing as a small triangle in better examples, above and below numeral and 3 bars to each side...plate number 224 can be seen clearly down right hand side.

Chavander

Those are very nice Chavander.

When I was at the stamp fair 2 weeks ago, one of the dealers had a nearly complete Penny Red plate number collection. I say nearly complete because it was missing 4 or 5 plate numbers, with 225 being one of them. The interesting aspect of that collection was all the stamps had Irish diamond cancels. Unfortunately I had to pass because at $500-ish, it was beyond my budget.

I do not know what the current Gibbons pricing is for the plate 225, but the 2010 Scott lists plate 225 at $750 used. I think it is safe to assume that your example with the rare Irish cancel would command that price, even with the centering and perforation issues.

Flying Tiger · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:22:08 am

chavander wrote:

1d. red plate 224 P.O. numeral 62 for Belfast lettered O-K

nowhere near as rare as 225 but still a difficult plate to find used in Ireland...

You make an interesting statement. Are there rarity ratings for the different plate numbers on that issue (and others) which would have been used in Ireland? It also makes me wonder if there are rarity ratings for other Great Britain stamp issues used in Ireland.

chavander · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:32:43 am

i have this in my collection...

if the description of the Mulready is correct and the quotes from Alcock and Holland and Profesor David Rockoff are correct then my 1d. black on piece is the second one known with a red Westport maltese cross and the only one known on a penny black. i will have to send a scan in an email to Prof.Rockoff to get him to confirm this.

i have had this piece for donkeys years and i can`t remember where i bought it or how much i paid for it, would not have a been a lot because stamp is only 3 margin and has a nasty vertical crease through the stamp

Chavander

Stampoutloud · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2011 13:28:53 pm

Does anyone know what was the legal status of GB stamps used in the Republic of Ireland? Obviously if done during times when Ireland was under British control, it would make sense. There must have been a time after Ireland gained its independence, that they no longer legally could use GB stamps. What's the history behind this? Did some slip through (I've seen some very odd things slip through the USPS over the years)?

europhil · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2011 14:32:01 pm

Southern Ireland was granted independence by the terms of
a treaty signed on Dec. 6, 1921. Formal transfer of power
occurred on Jan. 16, 1922. The first Irish stamps (overprints)
were issued on Feb. 17.

Unoverprinted British postage stamps could be used through
March 31. Ditto for most postal stationery.

Since the first Irish postage due labels were not issued until
Feb. 20, 1925, British labels continued to be used. Mostly
the labels with the simple cypher watermark were used, but
the 1925 printing of the 2d label on block cypher paper was
also supplied to Ireland.

The 5d and 2/6 values were never used in Ireland. The 1½d
label issued in 1923 was supplied to and used in Ireland.

Mixed frankings of British and Irish postage stamps exist and
are highly desirable. So far, no non-philatelic mixed frankings
of postage due labels are known to exist.

CMJ · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2011 20:17:22 pm

chavander wrote:

i have this in my collection...

if the description of the Mulready is correct and the quotes from Alcock and Holland and Profesor David Rockoff are correct then my 1d. black on piece is the second one known with a red Westport maltese cross and the only one known on a penny black. i will have to send a scan in an email to Prof.Rockoff to get him to confirm this.

What a fantastic find.

Chris.

CMJ · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2011 20:18:11 pm

Here's an example of the numeral from Westport (447) that replaced the Maltese Cross in June/July 1844

Just in case the colour doesn't show up, the cancellation is in a deep blue.

Chris.

joelk · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2011 21:35:07 pm

cmj wrote:

Here's an example of the numeral from Westport (447) that replaced the Maltese Cross in June/July 1844

Just in case the colour doesn't show up, the cancellation is in a deep blue.

Chris.

Very pretty stamp and cancellation. Congratulations, Chris!

asmodeus · **Posted:** Fri Apr 22, 2011 07:14:48 am

156= Cork

joelk · **Posted:** Fri Apr 22, 2011 07:33:50 am

A simple CDS on a line engraved 2d blue:

Flying Tiger · **Posted:** Fri Apr 22, 2011 09:31:12 am

There have been some really nice examples posted lately. I am pleased at the interest shown and the knowledge shared by the Stampboards members.

This one is a Scott #33, plate 122 with a Cork 156 cancel.

honza · **Posted:** Sun Apr 24, 2011 03:27:39 am

Ahoj there!

I can just about make out CORK on this one. Would T.O be Telegraph Office?

and this one is a bit of a cheat because the British stamp had been appropriated by means of an overprint. Used in Sligo this set was still the high values for the Free State 13 years after Home Rule.

Honza

tallanent · **Posted:** Sun Apr 24, 2011 03:38:26 am

honza wrote:

I can just about make out CORK on this one. Would T.O be Telegraph Office?

Honza .. yes .. the letters T O at the base of the stamp are for Telegraph Office

ALLAN

Flying Tiger · **Posted:** Sun Apr 24, 2011 04:04:13 am

honza wrote:

Ahoj there!

and this one is a bit of a cheat because the British stamp had been appropriated by means of an overprint. Used in Sligo this set was still the high values for the Free State 13 years after Home Rule.

Honza

It may be a bit of a cheat, but I always had a fondness for the Seahorses, overprinted or not. Technically it is a British stamp and it was used in Ireland, although after independence. By the way, nice Sligo cancel.

Your example is from the 1934 Waterlow printing. You can tell because the lines behind the portrait of the king are crosshatched.

The Waterlow printing was overprinted by Harrison & Sons and issued in Ireland in 1935.

Ireland Scott 93. Catalog value for used $62.50

joelk · **Posted:** Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:41:23 am

A nice Dublin cancel on a line engraved 1½d:

Flying Tiger · **Posted:** Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:10:57 pm

joelk wrote:

A nice Dublin cancel on a line engraved 1½d:

I see that it is plate #3.


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