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Pete, 1000 is just 'M', 1100 is just 'MC', in the original issue; 1200 is 'MC' on top - with 'C' underneath.

If you want to throw an image up here, I'll do what I can to help identify it....I hope

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Thanks mcgooley, I cannot find that stamp for the life of me, been searching for hours.. I will find it eventually, but as you know I have about 1,000 + of them now and only X amount are sorted.. I have been giving them all a bath, so now I have a table full of stamps in my Den, sorted, to be sorted, know, don't know.. Just hope the cat doesn't decide to jump up there for a snooze, then I'll have stamps all over the house.. He did that on my jigsaw once and a few pieces stuck to his fur and I found them over a period of a month or so in various places.. I wasn't game to vacume until I found them all !!

Here is one on my "don't know" list, I can see the M clear enough, but what is after it ??? Also it looks like 77 underneath, but strange looking 7s.. I turn it over and I can see 22 without the full top of the 2.. The bottom looks like a 2 should be with a bit of a tail, but then the M would be upsidedown..
I think it's more likely MD 77, what do you think ?





Thanks Pete

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Pete, my first reaction is that your image is MD37 of Telford. The digit under the "M" doesn't appear to have the right shape for a "7" (the head is thinner than the 7 beside it.)

Dunno why, but cats seem to love being in places they know shouldn't - worse; often they'll have a hissy-fit when you tell them off

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Thanks mcgooley, looking at it again I can see a difference, much thinner, so it is definately a 3..

I just bidded on some stamps and a post card in USA and won.. The stamps I have but a couple of interesting BNs, one is rated S, need to have the others in front of me..

Here is the post card with an interesting BN from 1883, what does TPO stand for ? Something Post Office I assume..



Thanks again
Pete

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Pete, T.P.O. refers to travelling post offices, or in your case a particular Train. Below is a link to Les Molnar's fantastic site regarding these items;

http://www.stampsofvictoria.com/tpo.php

It is a great reference site to bookmark

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Thanks mcgooley, excellent site, I found my cancel straight away.. Now that gives me something else to look out for, not to mention that I now have 1 and being a Cancer the Crab, 1 is the beginning of a collection.. Now I will have to go over all my stamps again to look for TPO cancels.. I had another look at the stamps and I actually have 2 rated S, so it was worth the bid..

Thanks again
Pete

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Hi mcgooley, got a few more for your detective skills..

1st - 255 or 253 ? Probably 255, but there is a difference if you look closely at the what you can see of the last numeral.. I know they didn't have computer operated lasers back then, so perhaps the difference is to be expected..

2nd - 764 ROCKBANK .....Rated SS, do you agree ?

3rd - 37 ? I can see a small black ink line which runs up 3 perfs, which would suggest a 3 with two straight lines then the "sideways reversed C" if you get my meaning..

4th - 307 ? It has been struck twice but the bottom of the strike is not really there



As always, thanks for you time and help
Pete

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It's better to have them and not need them
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Pete, your first stamp is 255 of Snake Valley. By the time this stamp had been issued, Framlingham's 253 (for whatever reason) had already had the side-bars removed.

Note: those original issues of BN with side-bars which were removed, generally had them done before 1870. As you are probably aware, this stamp wasn't issued until 1873.

2nd is a good example of Rockbank's 764. One more for the album

I agree with you about Darlington's '37'. This is the second issue for the office, and the height of the '7' is the give-away.

I'm going with my first reaction to the last strike - that it's Apollo Bay's 807. As common as muck, but I've yet to see a really clean strike from that office - particularly in the 1890s. Makes me wonder what they got up to down there

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Hi everyone here are a couple more to check out.

I think it is Caramut, going by the letters on the left. No. 27

438 very Bold type numbers, to much ink maybe.

317

4

Couple different '2'



I am not sure but I am hoping for a RRplus from one of these lovely stamps and thank you for looking.

Micky

Here is another I missed I think it is a MC 9?? that is all I can understand sorry.



Thank you
Micky

Micky, I'll start with the last one first.

Tungamah (MC96) had very distinctive duplexes, with the characteristics of the numerals being shared with Yarragon's M96 duplex. Your (admittedly faint) example is of Tungamah's first duplex, in use from the mid-1880s. The major difference between the office's two duplexes is that the first has an unframed datestamp, while the second (from the early 1900s) has a framed datestamp similar to the commonwealth cds.

You're on the money with Caramut's duplex, in use from the early 1890s.

The second is Majorca's first issue of 438 (there were 2 duplexes issued later which are harder to find) and this is a nice example of a dirty canceller. Somebody was being lazy that morning

Third is a nice clean example of Yandoit's replacement 317. The first issue, with side-bars, is very hard to find (4R), but this one isn't exactly common either.

Your '4' on the tom-thumb isn't Bendigo/Sandhurst, I think. My first reaction was that it's Kilmore's (74) first duplex. This one is a query.

With Geelong; the top example shows all the characteristics of the numeral from the fourth duplex, and your second strike is a perfect example of Geelong's third issue - the A2b, which was received in 1857.

Sorry Micky, your retirement plans have to stay on hold

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Retirement at my age mcgooley, I wish and it's my birthday next week looks like I have to work another 30 years. Thanks for the fantastic information it's like you were there when each stamp was stamped. Tell you something great I got the 1000 plus Victorian stamps today from USA and there are dozens of numeral cancels, I can see a 1977 has 3 bars above and below with no side bars and I have one with a blue cancel 49_ can't quite read the 3rd number, and a MCC over 75. Anyhow I will send scans shortly talk about a Hoard wow, 40 found so far and many more to discover.

Micky is happier and loves the information found right here.

Cheers
Micky

Good Morning and Good Day to all.
Well here is a part of my happy hoard, not sure if I can show all 3 pages anyway here are three scans.
Included is a Blue R and a Launceston - Tasmania cancel on a Victorian stamp a first for me.






Are the Blue numeral cancels rarer? I have maybe 3 or 4 different numbers on the other scans.
I will show more tomorrow, looking forward to the feedback, and no retirement intended or maybe I can just dream.

Micky

Micky, a great lot with plenty of study material in here

You have a few rated items in there; 159 with side-bars (2R), 631 and M4 (both R), but there's plenty of different types here to keep you going for a while.

Respecting coloured cancels; blue, violet, magenta, and red, were generally found in offices with Telegraph facilities. Railway Stations were the worst culprits, and the majority of these cancels are found up to the early 1890s. There was a strong 'cease and desist' notice sent out in 1892; after that the custom dropped off a bit. Red is probably the least common of the colours met with, blue being the most common - particularly during the 1870-1890 period.

I'm quite happy to help with any questions, perhaps a PM might be more appropriate though

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mcgooley a PM is that stamp talk for email? I do have about 4 pages of BN and about 1000 of regular cancels maybe a non BN in there somewhere you might be interested in? Any requests I can do some searching for you.

Cheers for your help this is truly a great thread for me and everyone else interested.

Micky

a PM is SB talk for email

I'm happy to help out where I can. For more accurate evaluations on cds, PPA would be a better bet - I'm strictly an amateur and might give you a bum steer. My "expertise" in Victorian barred numerals, such as it is, stems more from my research in the post offices.

If you still think I can help you - hit the email button at the bottom left of this page

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Hi mcgooley, am in need of you detective skills again and some info on 3 side bars.. In this set of stamps there is a Laureate, 2nd row, 2nd stamp in.. I cannot find reference to a 50 something BN with 3 side Bars.. 1A and A1 are all I have and they don't coincide with that BN.. A1, 1-9 & 11, and what happened to 10 ? So where are the 12 onwards BNs with 3 Side Bars ? I have seen either 1AR or was it A1R or something like that and have no reference to the "R"..
Also what do you think the next # is..



Thanks again for your help
Pete

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Oh!, the fun of it all Kilmore was issued with a type 'A1' (three side-bars) in 1857 (Geelong got a new '2' at the same time), and although faint, what you have there is an acceptable copy. It's possible to find this strike right through to the late 1870s in good condition, and it is noted even later that that.

The other numeral looks very much like Dunolly's first issue of 239.

A rather nice lot of stamps, BTW.

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Thanks again mcgooley, I don't own those stamps, I have bidded on them so we'll just have to wait and see..
I bidded on this Lot a few days back then the bidding started to go higher.. So I sat back to see how high it was going to go and in the last secs I threw a high one in as what I think is a RRR rated stamp, I hope it was worth it.. Also I cannot see people bidding into the $40s for this Lot if there wasn't something in there that was worth it Ah !!

From what I can deduce I know there is an R and an S rated stamp in there, but I think there is a RRR stamp here..
2nd row, 5th stamp, brown 1d - 560 SAILOR'S GULLY (renamed NERRING) ..... Rated RRR




Go ahead mcgooley, "make my day"
Thanks again for your expertise
Pete

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Oh Pete, with two side-bars it can't be Sorry, it's a very nice example of New Gisborne's '360' which is unrated.

Actually, this is quite a nice selection, even with the number of partial strikes, and there's a couple in there which could bear closer scrutiny - but nothing really scarce.

Sorry

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Thanks mcgooley, it must have had 2 other Bidders fooled as well .. I put it in my pictures and blew it up, looked at from all angles until I finally decided it was a 5 not a 3 .. But not knowing all the technicalities I blew it.. There are 2 S rated that I know for sure, 617 & 713 and a possible R, but until I can get them in front of me with my 5 different magnifing glasses and a clear look the iffy ones remain just that.. One day I will buy some sort of program that will take the distortion out of the pics that are scanned on ebay and be able to look at the stamp blown up but in perfect clarity.. There must be a program that does it, you see it all the time on those TV crime shows !!

Ok thanks again, back to my search... Oh the other day I bidded on a 5R stamp, then someone bidded higher (2 days later), then about 24 hrs later the Seller withdrew the stamp.. I still have the pic and another stamp which had a 4R rating by the same Seller went for $105.00, of course I was out of the bidding early.. He had 3R, 2R, 1R, SS & S and a swag of unrated.. I don't think he knew what he had and then someone clued him in.. Pity he didn't have a Buy It Now Option, or I would have had the lot of them !! I did manage to get one R rated stamp from him though - M 7...

Thanks once again Pete

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It's better to have them and not need them
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Unfortunately that 5R stamp.....wasn't. If you still have the pic, turn the image upside-down. Castle Reef (616) closed in 1875 - many years before the 1d pinks were issued. As it happens I know the seller and alerted him to his mistake, which is why it was pulled.

His field is cds, not BN, but he manages to get some beautiful strikes. You weren't the only one drooling over that 4R

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Hi mcgooley, I'm still on the look out but I am only getting low rated stamps, but to me, just to have a rating is enough.. Perhaps one day I'll spot one and pounce on it in a Buy It Now situation before anyone else spots it, gotta think positive Ah !!
Just 3 stamps here.. I would like you to varify before I squirrel them away..
216 MYRTLE CREEK (MYRTLEFORD) .....Rated S type 2A. (And yes the Cancel is Blue)
91 (BO) ?, (BN) ALBERTON ..... Rated S
1007 FAWKNER (renamed HARSTON) ..... Rated R

Also what do the "1"s look like in type A1h & type A1 c-g, as I have seen a ((1)) but have no idea whether it is either of these types ..





Thanks for you time, again
Pete

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It's better to have them and not need them
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Three very nice, clear, strikes; and spot on with the descriptions. I particularly like the Mytleford's blue

Regarding Melbourne's A1 series; there really is very little difference between c,d,e,f and g; there are two side-bars, and the only real difference is a very slight variation in the length of the serif.

On the other hand, A1h has single side-bars, with only two bars at the bottom instead of the usual three. It's a very 'chunky' looking obliteration - almost clumsy compared to it's brethren.

These cancellers appear to have been used mainly in the parcel and ship mail rooms, according to what I've read and seen of their usage, and the 'h' doesn't appear to have been very popular with the staff - it certainly didn't get much use

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Hi everyone, here is some more of my collection of BN and other types of cancels and overprints I scored. Check out my super what you call a killer, I have three but this one is the best looking.





Enjoy I have more to show.
Micky

Hi Micky, nice looking stamps mate.. Your "Killer" is a beauty.. I've only got one myself out of about 1,000 stamps I have aquired in the last few months..
In your 2nd row, 5th stamp in, it is MD (1500) something, I cannot quite work out the #/s below, but a lot of those stamps have a rating I have noticed !! Mcgooley is really good at working out those sort of cancels.. Another for mcgooley is the one next to it, your 19?.. There is enough of the 2nd canceller to see some letters but I'm buggered if I know !! Looks like EO at the top and NE at the bottom.. So my "Detective Skills" just fell in a hole..
I know you weren't asking for identification, but I was just having a go at some detection but couldn't work them out !!

Looking forward to seeing more of your horde..

Cheers Pete

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It's better to have them and not need them
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Hi Bunge, yes it is a ripper 'Killer' , the MD I think reads 22? and I think the 19? is Railto 1977 and I also think the 76 is more of a 761 a bit tricky to read some, I could do some closer scans. Thanks for your help Bunge

Micky

Hi Micky, some very nice strikes in there. Smythesdale's '76' in blue is not uncommon -
but still a good score there. If your MD is 22 then it's Woori Yalloack, a bit hard for me to judge by the scan.

You have an interesting fiscal cancel on the top row which could bear closer scrutiny, and that Swan Hill is an absolute pearler - that should go to the SOTN thread!!!!

On the bottom row, your 67 is actually Caulfield East's 1671; it was probably still a R.H. when this was struck - it didn't become an official post office until 1902. The first stamp on that row is 182? - a better scan might help my eyes, but I would suggest that it is most likely Weerite's 1827.

And now you know why the 'killer' got it's name

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Hi Auzzie Learner, what you have there is 1394 of Glenloth Railway Station (MCCC94)

By the looks of the strike, there were at least two other stamps to keep this one company on the item; but still a useful addition for anyone's collection

Do I detect another possible convert in the making

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Sadly, John Webster's death put a stop to the series. David Wood (PPA) has an excellent on-line reference library on his web-site; for a small yearly subscription you can access an enormous amount of information on Victorian post offices, and the other States. (Hey David, I should start getting a commission soon )

Regarding Glenloth, this is not a very common strike; Hugh Freeman's book gives it an 'S' rating - which means at the time of publication for "The Numeral Cancellations of Victoria" which he co-wrote with Geoff White (R.P.S.V. in 2001) - there were estimated to be up to 300 examples known. Don't worry about the "missing parts" on your copy - it's still very readable

I'll declare here - again - that ratings are probably, ummm, over-rated, particularly in the lower orders. Occasionally I've found it more difficult to get quality strikes of some really common BNs than the 2-3R, and personally I completely disregard the ratings - unless it is up there in the "under 20 examples known" category.

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According to my information, N.S.W. '67' was Muswellbrook. I don't think it would be particularly uncommon.

'19' is Brighton's 2nd duplex, and your '1' is Melbourne's A1a and a very nice example at that

Hope you like camping

There are quite a number of post office sites (and I'm just speaking of Victoria) which are now only accessible by 4WD or by foot; and that doesn't include those which have been submerged in reservoirs or, particularly in the case of Yallourn, dug out of existence.

It's a wonderful way of getting to know your State

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Hi mcgooley, I thank you very much for your help.

Below are the closer scans of the stamps you mentioned, I think your right about the numbers 1671 and 1827, sorry I don't know anything about fiscal so I guessed which stamp you mentioned and added a closer scan of it and the MC one also.
I was also wondering what are the stamp cancels without the outer circle called? Just has the town name and date without circle border, I have maybe 50 of them so far and still more coming out of the pile. Oh and I will also add the stamp to the Sock On Nose Thread it is a super one yes.




Fiscal?


Cheers again mcgooley

Micky

Auzzie Learner, Melbourne's A1a is fairly common - but what you have is a lovely example on a very nice early stamp. (If you don't like camping and bushwalking, there are still plenty of towns/hamlets/sites which are readily accessible - you'll just miss out on some of the most spectacular scenery that this little corner has to offer! [Disclaimer; confirmed bushie talking here ])

Micky, we have a highly technical term for datestamps without the outside ring - unframed
The lingo goes something along these lines;
the first datestamps had a crown at the top of the two date lines, with the name of the town at the top and N.S.W./Port Phillip/Victoria at the bottom - called Crowned Ovals (these were also unframed),

then we got the unframed datestamps; office name at the top and Victoria/Vic at the bottom and the date in two lines - same as the Crowned Ovals,

then they decided to squeeze everything into a frame, still with the two date lines (like LAH - VICTORIA, or KORWEINGUBOORA - VIC [and I just love the last one ]),

and then you had the "skeleton" datestamps, which had double outside rings with the name inside the rings - you see them a lot on duplexes, but they were also used on 'Relief' type stamps, because you could change the letters,

and then you come to the Commonwealth datestamps, where there is a single dateline.

And then, the fun begins.

Back to your BN; your MD is 1512 of Bloomfield R.S. (today's Nilma on the east side of Warragul. It's possible to get this in most colours - Railway Stations were great for that. It has an 'S' rating, if you're interested.

That is very definitely Caulfield East's 1671, but there is no way that I could give a positive id on the 182? With the ink splatter on the right, at the top of the '2', I'm inclined to go with 1829 of Lah, rather than Weerite's 1827 - but I'm afraid that if this were mine it would stay in the 'unknown' 1820s pile.

That queried fiscal cancel is exactly what I was talking about. Connell, Hogarth & Co. could bear a bit more investigation as it appears they went public later that year or early in 1892 - first time I've ever seen one of theirs. Well done!

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mcgooley again I thank you and when I find the other Fiscal I let you know and I have a lot for information to add to my book of understanding hehe. Your a great help like everyone is on SB, I don't know if there is a page for unframed I have many to show one day.

mcgooley we all need to shout you to a drink or your very own BN museum

Micky is happy in his new SB home

A few more

Somebody want to try on this Queensland BN?

Yes it`s 392 of Antigua straight from the book

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Growing old beats the alternative -- dying young.

Actually not from the book but from my collection.

Hi every one, here are some of my almost complete 1 to 40 BN some I have shown previously just thought I put them together, I never realised there could be so many varieties, now that gives me an extra incentive to do a lot more searching for the number and not for a particular stamp. Not sure if any R to 4R would be interested to know though.





Cheers
Micky

That's a pretty cool looking Lot Micky.. I would be interested to see what mcgooley says about your first #2 as I just bought one similar from USA.. It appears to have 2 bars on the left and only 1 on the right, also it only has 2 bars top and bottom as opposed to 3.. The left hand side bars are missing from mine but the cancel looks the same !!
I'll leave it for mcgooley to tell you about most of your cancels as she is armed to the teeth with knowledge about this and that duplex.. One I will comment on is your #38..
38 (B) WARNAMBOOL, (BO) KINLOCHEWE, (BN) ELPHINSTONE .....Rated SS
And it doesn't mention a type, so it should have the SS rating, and if I am not mistaken you have a type A2 there..

Thanks for sharing
Bunge

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It's better to have them and not need them
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Hi Bunge, I think I made a boo boo, I just had a close look at 38 i can see the base of another number I am sure, so I guess I am looking for a 38 now , I was going off the shape and size of the bars figuring there was no other number until just now with the closer scan. The No.1 is my favourie thanks to Mackay Stamps for visiting up here in Far Nth Qld, it is good to have some type of fair here for couple days a good purchase I think.
Here is the No.2 close up, a bit rough but it is the only one I have, feel bad with the 38 so no close up