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Hi, a friend recieved this Chinese coin in the mail from China. He has no idea who it's from. Custom declaration on the back just said gift!

I was able to track the basic design to a Shensi Province dollar coin. Very similar to an 1898 pattern coin and as far as I know was never minted in China as "the dies and machinery never reached Shensi, having been diverted to Hupeh Mint". As quoted from the Standard Catalogue of World Coins by Krause and Mishler...1976 Edition





It has to be a replica coin doesn't it? There are too many differences from the original! Or was it issued at any time that may be listed in a later issue?

Any help would be appreciated! Would it have any value other than a curio? He'll never find out who sent it to him but at least he'll have some information on it.

Thanks, Anne

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I am having fun collecting WW and Indian States.

I think you will find that it's a forgery or as you suggest, a replica. The Chinese have a thriving business forging valuable silver coins. For instance you can buy US Trade Dollars dated 1871. They are worn like a used coin would look like but still retain enough of the detail to show its value and date.

Unfortunately in this particular case they overlooked one basic fact about Trade Dollars.

They weren't actually made until 1873!

But not a lot of people know that, except coin collectors, auctioneers, dealers and market sellers. So every now and again and again and again someone buys a "rare" 1871 Trade Dollar for an astronomical sum that probably contains very little silver.

Thanks for that Selvedge. I was pretty sure, but my world catalogue is so old you never know what's been released.

It's quite amazing though that someone has sent him this! He didn't buy it or even bid on it. It just arrived in the mail with no return address, invoice or anything...just the coin!
He has no idea if it was meant to go to someone else or not but can't return it either.

I shall let him know the "bad" news. But I don't think he'll be suprised either.
Thanks, Anne

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I am having fun collecting WW and Indian States.

Counterfeiting is a big business in China.

When I was there you could buy literally hundreds of different designs, all copied very well.

This link will shed some light on the scale of the operations.

http://coins.about.com/od/worldcoins/ig/Chinese-Counterfeiting-Ring/

I bought heaps, at just under $1 AUD each, 600Yuan per 100 assorted.

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That was fascinating! Thanks fletches1. Bit scary isn't it? Who do you trust now? But why would you bother faking a coin that was obviously never minted?... Oh DUUH, as Homer Simpson would say...because there is always someone out there who hasn't done their research and is willing to buy anything.

I'm no expert, but even I got a feeling about it straight away! I told my friend I would look into it for him and I did. As soon as I saw the original picture in the catalogue I knew. The beads around the rim on the coin were spaced but the original was not. Dead giveaway...but, I still had to ask if it was later altered and minted just in case.

I think he'll keep it as a curio (well, can't do anything else as he doesn't know who it came from anyway!) and he probably won't look into the silver content..if there is any! Thanks again for that.

Anne

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I am having fun collecting WW and Indian States.

Speaking of Chinese counterfeits, here is a photo of a bucket of several thousand US large cents, Indian Head cents, and half cents; I'm told they are reasonably deceptive. In Europe, where buyers know less about US coins, they are used to "salt" auction and estate lots.

Everybody knows one or two things about most subjects. Most Americans will probably have heard/recognize the name "Morgan dollar". They might even know the portrait on it. But for non-collectors/investors/etc, thats where the knowledge ends.

Mr. Average Joe goes to a flea market. They see a bric-a-brac seller has some coins on the table mixed in with the 'tat', the Diana Wedding souvenir mug, the Niagara Falls teaspoons, etc. Joe espies a Morgan dollar with an old date. "Ahh, I know those can be worth thousands" he thinks to himself. Its a snip at the dealer's asking price of $20, so he buys it.

If the dealer is a shady character, he has a roll of Chinese counterfeits under the table, and next day puts out another one on the table, ready for the next "lucky finder" to come along.

Of course, there is the world's largest flea market, oops "online marketplace", eBay. What % of coins on there are authentic, versus how many are offered by fly-by-night sellers who will withdraw buyers payments to their bank account and be gone by the time buyers find out their "silver coin" has as much silver as a nickel.

I heard recently that some experts estimate that 90% of all Civil War antiques of the Confederate Army "out there" are fakes. The original production facilities were not great, so the output is simple and relatively easy to fake, while many people are interested in artifacts of that period.

All-in-all, it makes buying from knowledgeable sellers all the more important nowadays. Anyone offering antique coins or many other things online "found in deceased grandpa's attic" need to be taken with not just a grain, but a whole pillar of salt.

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Thanks Aethelwulf and Doug, all just confirms my belief that there are a lot dodgey people out there!

It's very interesting. One of my hubby's pride and joy is a $5.00 Confederate note bought off the fleamarket a few years ago. What would be the telltale signs of a fake?

We have no idea. He just tends to buy what he really likes. I'm more into coins and stamps, so have no idea! And I'm very careful! Still get caught out though



For some reason, the other side of the note refuses to download from photobucket. I shall try again tomorrow but maybe this will be enough for you to tell.

It is stamped,on the front in red..."SEPT'R, 1863"

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I am having fun collecting WW and Indian States.

With coins its often easy to figure out if its a fake -- weight.

Spanish New World gold, Silver Dollars, they all have precise weights, sometimes to 2 decimal places. Put a coin on a scale, if the weight is way off what it should be (ie. mostly nickel instead of pure silver), then bingo.

Paper money, like stamps, it can be harder to identify sometimes, but there'll be 'mistakes' in the design, or maybe its just of poorer quality.

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

I have Criswell's specialized catalog of Confederate paper money. Your note is Type 60, but all the identifying details are on the front. The date in red represents not the date of printing, but the month and year this note was released into circulation.

Two factors that will not show up on a scan; look for a watermark (just like stamps), and determine if the back printing is inverted with respect to the front.

The building on the front is the State Capitol (of Virginia) at Richmond, which was also the Capitol of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War.

There are no known contemporary counterfeits of Type 60 notes.

I may be wrong, but did the North print counterfeits of the Confederate currency during the war to destabilize it?

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

Yes, they did. Counterfeits have also been widely-produced since the Civil War to defraud collectors, some printed on the original paper(s).

Great, finally worked. What watermark would I be looking for? I know nothing about these.

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I am having fun collecting WW and Indian States.

The bill appears to be Criswell #463/6.

Identifying characteristics are the words at the bottom, "Engraved by Keatinge & Ball, Columbia, S.C." and below that, "Lithog'd by ///// Evans & Cogswell," at left and right.

Also, without "Series No." reading vertically above the word 'No.'" Plain paper with no watermark. Plate numbers A through H at the top (yours is "A").

Catalog value US $90 in 1996. Present value unknown, although you can look on eBay to see what other Criswell #463's sold for, in similar condition, with the same 4 characteristics noted above. That may take a while, to find the exact same note. Total 7.7 million printed, the most common $5 note in terms of quantities issued.

Your note struck me as genuine. There are more varieties of Type 60 than any other Confederate note.

The closest I could find is a similar $10 note in similar condition, with about the same catalog value, presently offered for US $50 buy-it-now. Your key search criteria are Criswell #463.

If you hold the note up to light and see a watermark, we'll start over.

The Chinese are also forging Australian $1 and $2 coins in quantity. Reports from Customs indicate young Chinese are arriving on holiday with up to $15,000 in freshly minted $1 and $2 coins.

I had a chance to examine some recently and on the whole they are pretty good but some were poorly struck and could be best described as damaged.

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First off, thank you Doug for that info about the Confederate note. In regards to the watermark, I still don't know what to look for, or where to find it. When I hold the note up to the light, all I can see are all the old crease marks which I assumed have been 'ironed' out. Not that they worry us. It had been 'well folded' before we got it! ( We didn't iron it just in case you thought that!) Would love to hear some stories from the pockets that note has been in If you could let me know what I'm looking for, I might be able to find something! Thanks again, Anne

And on to Traralgon3844, as I work in a shop, is there any particular characteristics I should keep an eye out for with these $1 and $2 forged coins...or are they being picked up at Customs? Not all of them would be picked up surely! Not humanly possible!

They do a great job but hey! we're talking about very small items here! Items in your pocket (with a few Confederate notes as well ) that are easily overlooked. $15,000 might be a bit hard to hide...the weight alone would be unreal! I would be happy to have a couple of examples in my collection for face value (well, current Aust. value ie. $1.00 or $2.00) just for the novelty of it..and well marked as such in the album!

Do you know if it's a particular year or not?

Thanks again Doug and Traralgon, Anne

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I am having fun collecting WW and Indian States.

If you can't see a watermark holding the note up to light (since they're on such thin paper), it probably doesn't have one; there are seven possible watermarks, all of which boost the value.

You speak of the pockets your note has seen. Here is a poem about Confederate money written by CSA Major A. L. Jonas just after the War had been lost, supposedly on the back of an 1864 $500 Confederate note:

http://www.civilwarpoetry.org/confederate/postwar/note.html

Doug, that was a very touching poem. Makes me think there were probably more tears shed over this $5.00 note than stories! .Thanks, Anne

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I am having fun collecting WW and Indian States.

Quite possibly. Just as in 1920s hyper-inflation Germany, no-one wanted to be 'stuck' with paper money at the end of the day.

Imagine the farmer though who keeps their savings in Confederate notes, stored in a metal box on a shelf. The war ends, and all they're left with are printed portraits of the leading figures in the conflict.

It would have been like a game of "hot potato". Everyone tries to spend their money and get rid of it. Even buying staples like animal feed or yards of cloth, at least you would have something. But go to the store and chances are the shelves are bare.

Its moving away from identification and might sound ideological, but statistics show that nowadays the majority of conflicts in the world are instra-state not inter-state; that is, most wars are fought within a country instead of between countries. A civil war is, frankly speaking, stupid. While one side triumphs and the other is defeated, nobody 'wins'; countrymen fight each other, they destroy the infrastructure of their own country.

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/