Collecting Palestine

doug2222usa · **Posted:** Tue Nov 01, 2011 13:04:49 pm

The Censor seems to have done something clever; he opened the letter and applied one censor stamping so that part of the marking would fall under the resealing tape, then used the tape, then applied a second censor stamping over the tape, tying the tape to the cover.

Or that's how it looks.

maptrekker · **Posted:** Tue Nov 01, 2011 13:22:27 pm

That is a beautiful cover.

Would you tell me what APOSZ is? I assume it is an army post office of some type.

makielb · **Posted:** Tue Nov 01, 2011 21:20:56 pm

APO = Army Post Office
SZ = Sub-unit of the Alexandria APO (I believe, at least that's what I read in Proud some years back)

The SZ designations were used throughout the Middle East and range from SZ1 to SZ62

makielb · **Posted:** Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:08:36 am

This is an intriguing cover. Deurt Yol has a disturbing history, but more on that later.

This is an example of the 1 piastre EEF used in Cilicia or Hatay. The cancel is the same one used during the Ottoman period. The back-stamp shows that this cover passed through Adana (also the old Ottoman cancel) and was reviewed by censor. Everything is fine and dandy to this point.

The perplexing problem with this cover is the 5 milliemes rate. That's the internal rate, not the foreign rate. The back flap is missing, and there is not gum residue, so it might have been sent printed matter rate, but then it is outrageously over franked. (The rate was 1 millieme). Then again these rates applied to Palestine, Egypt and the Transjordan. Perhaps things were different to the north of Palestine.

So, why is Deurt-Yol a place of interest? In 1915 the great genocide of Armenians occurred in Turkey. This was one of the areas where it was massive. The cover is addressed to an Armenian in North America.

Again, this cover is awaiting re-mounting from collection to exhibit.

makielb · **Posted:** Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:10:21 am

I just noticed that I stated it was a "1 piastre" stamp, what a psychological typo. It "Should have been a 1 piastre" stamp. Sorry for the mistake. :oops:

tonymacg · **Posted:** Thu Nov 03, 2011 00:24:36 am

Marvellous stuff, Mike. You haven't converted me, though ... yet ...

makielb · **Posted:** Thu Nov 03, 2011 03:24:00 am

I'll keep at it Tony.

I realize that they are not quite "Ugly." :lol:

But they are extremely interesting.

Jack · **Posted:** Fri Nov 11, 2011 02:06:31 am

Linked, but not quite the same I know; I point out the article in this month Stanley Gibbons magazine and last month on the 'Palestine National Authority' stamps and postal history; a thorough and scholarly account. First I have seen on the area.

maptrekker · **Posted:** Thu Dec 01, 2011 04:09:02 am

A certificate of posting from the Austrian post office in Jerusalem that I had posted elsewhere.

cable1234 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 07:29:29 am

Hello All
I like Palestine but I have a question. What is the difference between Palestine and the Palestinian Authority? I have Scott catalog but am finding here on the stampboards that am I going to need to go buy some SG catalogs.

Jack · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 07:44:21 am

Palestine was a country before Israel. Now there is Israel and 'controlled' / 'not free' Palestinian Authority areas (the terms have all sorts of emotional / legal implications).

Israel is a legal country inside its 1948 borders, although it claims a lot more land. 'Palestinian authority' is not currently a country according to the UN but is recognised as a country by some bodies (such as UNESCO) and a lot of countries.

Philatically Israel's 'control' of the PNA Palestinian National Authority is why it must not use 'Palestine' on its stamps.

maptrekker · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 07:55:56 am

To confuse the issue there was the Palestine Mandate which started this thread. The Mandate included Transjordan as well as Palestine.

cable1234 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 08:16:27 am

Thank you to the both of you as I had forgotten about the Mandate. Are the PNA stamps allowed to be used outside of the PNA or do you have to use Isreali stamps? I love when I can learn new things about countries and the interactions that stamps can show.

maptrekker · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 09:00:45 am

Here is how I understand the situation. PNA stamps are valid in territories controlled by the PNA and on mail to Israel, Egypt and Jordan.

To muddy the situation further, as I like to do, Hamas controls Gaza and issues its own stamps. They are not valid internationally. How mail travels from Gaza to the outside I am unclear.

makielb · **Posted:** Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:52:36 am

So, speaking of the Palestinian Authority, this arrived in the mail yesterday (10 December 2011) - note that the postmark is 27.04.2011 - That's nearly 7 months to get from Gaza, Palestine/Israel to Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA.

Here's the story - I purchased a small lot of 8 3-mil Palestine (1940s) canceled with triangular cancels. When they had not arrived in 60 days I queried the seller. He told me the Israelis were detaining mail and slowing down the postal system. He offered a refund, I declined, opting for patience, and the possibility of an interesting transaction. At worst I was out US$4.20.

Now I have the stamps and a piece of mail that I know passed from Gaza to me (that's the address blocked out). A win-win situation.

Kosters · **Posted:** Mon Dec 12, 2011 17:42:43 pm

makielb wrote:

Now I have the stamps and a piece of mail that I know passed from Gaza to me (that's the address blocked out). A win-win situation.

A win-win if I've ever heard one. I don't know an abundance about this region philatelic-wise, but to get much out from there to here is no small feat. It is not just Hamas governing this area, however they are the dominant ruling force. There are also powerful remnants of the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization), like the Fetah. Fetah was a combatant against Hamas until recently when they both unified into one group. Still remains many who hold the original hatred against each other maintaining high tensions in an already extremely stressed area. Regardless, both forces, separate or unified are still very anti-West and anti-Christian groups. They would likely make getting anything from that area to Western countries rather difficult.

But I digress, none-the-less a great buy for $4.20, even if it did take 7 months to receive it.

-
Kevin

makielb · **Posted:** Sat Dec 24, 2011 03:15:22 am

For Palestine (Mandate) collectors here's a book you need. I believe that most the the Bale numbers are the same as Gibbons. But this is outrageously specialized. It will answer every question that you have regarding 1918-1948 stamps of Palestine.

It contains information on rates, revenues and covers (minimal) as well as blocks and every possible error, as well as plating the early stamps.

The down side, the prices are ridiculously high. But use them as relative.

makielb · **Posted:** Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:44:19 am

So, in an effort to get everybody excited about Palestine I thought that I would work my way through some of the stamps, collecting possibilities and postal history.

Here's page-1 from my old attempt at organizing the stamps:

The first issue is commonly referred to as "The Blues" for rather obvious reasons.

Collecting these can involve as few as four (see above) either mint or used, eight if you want one of each. Not bad so far.

Then there are shade issues with each of the stamps. The first Palestine stamp comes in indigo and shades of dark blue. The other three are shades of ultramarine on several papers.

Here are some examples of Bale/SG 3 and 4 in blocks of four.

But collecting these goes well beyond these simplicities. There are four basic printing plates (B, D, F and G) and overprint plates (A1, C1, C2, C3, and C4). Currently, I have been working on reconstructing the plates (all four) for Bale #3 - the 5 March stamp.

Finally, it is possible to collect Bale #3 used with readable CDS for the entire use period, 5 March until 16 July. I have seen an almost complete run, and it is impressive since most of the CDS strikes were quite clear.

makielb · **Posted:** Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:48:37 am

Now, on to the 1918 typos, which IMHO is the most boring of the Palestine issues.

Pretty straightforward, there are a few shade variants, but otherwise rather simple (ugly, if not to insult Tony) unassuming stamps.

The interest comes in their uses outside of the region to become known as the Palestine Mandate, or just Palestine. I will post some of those uses later in the week.

makielb · **Posted:** Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:09:42 pm

OK, so here is a little one-frame exhibit that I hastily threw together for a friend who was organizing a show and needed another frame.

makielb · **Posted:** Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:11:14 pm

Please excuse any typos - I am rather bad at that.

makielb · **Posted:** Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:12:25 pm

makielb · **Posted:** Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:15:51 pm

OK, so the second one here is obviously philatelic, 9 piastres was an enormous postal fee, but aside from the cancel, which is legit and it was indeed posted, I have no other example of the 9 piastre on cover.

maptrekker · **Posted:** Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:36:04 pm

A magnificent 1-frame exhibit. I loved it.

tonymacg · **Posted:** Sat Dec 24, 2011 14:59:36 pm

makielb wrote:

Pretty straightforward, there are a few shade variants, but otherwise rather simple (ugly, if not to insult Tony) unassuming stamps.

That's OK. I rarely pursue copyright infringements on the word 'ugly' these days :lol:

Besides, an interesting run of stamps. Do keep it up!

makielb · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 02:07:24 am

Tony - This one is for you, as it has a connection to India.

makielb · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 02:20:45 am

Now, to finish the above post, as I hit the submit button rather than the preview :oops:

Anyway, the cover is from the India Expeditionary Force in Palestine, 1920.

Again, nice postal history for a mundane issue.

I also have a number of covers that passed from Jerusalem to S. Kabanoff, Alma Cigarettes, Cairo, Egypt. At first, I thought them to be purely philatelic in nature, but on close inspection were hardly. The covers were roughly opened and most covered the correct rates. Here are some examples.

And the one that appears to be philatelic, but I am not sure.

More to come

makielb · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 02:23:38 am

Here's a comparison of a Philatelic (?) registered and a regualr letter rate. Both are rather nice.

2 piastre foreign registered letter

1 piastre foreign letter

makielb · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 02:26:23 am

And finally (at least for now) a nice censored cover to Switzerland with EPC (Egyptian Postal Censor) and Milano, Italy transit

More as I get to them. And we're only in the early 1920s.

doug2222usa · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 02:30:37 am

W. T. Wilson was a famous collector of foreign covers. I have four or five examples into the 1940s. I recall reading that he produced thousands of Commonwealth-area covers. I don't know if he was a dealer.

billys · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 02:42:10 am

Hi all,

Mike these exhibition covers & stamps are fantastic and really interesting.
I have never seen this profusion before, I guess that they are all rare items, wonder how you got them?? I am jealous.

I have a question about these covers, these are Palestine stamps, why they were used on covers sent from Alep, Damascus, Beyrouth etc. These cities are not in Palestine? they were under French occupation and had their own stamps of Syria & Grand Syria or Grand Liban for the same period.

Best wishes from France.

Billys.

makielb · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 02:54:42 am

Doug- Thanks for the info on Wilson.

Billys - You're looking at years of collecting, acquiring 1-2 or a few at a time. I'm not sure that anything in here is rare. Some of it is rather uncommon.

Regarding the use of EEF stamps in Syria, Lebanon and southern Turkey. The French issues for Lebanon started in 1924 and the EEF issues were valid into 1920.

With Syria, the French issues start in late November 1919. There might have been some overlap with the use of EEF.

The Transjordan gets interesting as the early stamps there were EEF stamps overprinted in Arabic. I'll post some of those (stamps) when I get a chance.

makielb · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 03:25:47 am

Here are some examples of the Transjordan overprints of the EEF issues.

Here's a nice multiple from the upper pane of the 1925 1 millieme

Here's a very nice large block from the lower pane of the 1925 1 millieme

Not only are there multiple types in the blocks, there are multiple examples of missing "stops" in the EEF scattered throughout. I guess the printer (Waterlow) got somewhat sloppy.

maptrekker · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 03:30:46 am

Beautiful covers. What is GMI in the registration label?

makielb · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 03:33:42 am

Oops

The last stamps should have been the postage dues. I guess it's time for me to go and start making bread dough for tonight.

birder · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 03:47:20 am

Mike, That is a great exhibit. Thanks for sharing the images.

My collection of Palestine is almost primitive. However I do have representation from the Hejaz Jordan Zone and the British Administration (OPDA) in addition to the Palestine Authority.

My favourite is this example with inverted watermark :

But I do not know much about these stamps.

birder · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 03:48:44 am

I have many from this series of Court Fees stamps issued around 1920.

makielb · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 03:51:07 am

And just to get you ready for the real challenge, the first overprints of the EEF issues in English, Arabic and Hebrew, here is a very nice little cover that I picked up recently. I love the silver O/P .

Here is something a bit more interesting. It's a large block from the upper pane of the 1 millieme. There are numerous overprint types. Here we have in the top row types 3-9 (same types in rows 3-6), but the second row has types 14-21. Oh the complexities. We'll get into that next time

More later...

makielb · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 03:54:36 am

Birder-

All of the revenues are covered in the Bale catalogue (see above post). The current edition is a bit pricy, but you should be able to get something within the past 10-12 years for much less.

The revenues are extremely interesting and as complex as the various overprint issues. I'll try to scan some when I get a chance. I'll can also try to provide catalogue numbers and values for one that you post.

Regards,

birder · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 03:56:13 am

The covers and postage stamps are lovely... I don't know why I have never considered collecting postal material from Palestine.Thanks Mike for this lovely introduction.

Read your Overlapping Post Mike. Thanks a lot for the generous offer. I am going through this interesting thread a second time now and it is making much more sense.

Thanks and regards.

makielb · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 04:02:42 am

Birder-

The revenues that you posted earlier are:

R.OP32 (3rd series revenues) value US$10
R.CF73 (1930) value US$1.50

makielb · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 04:08:42 am

The most recent revenue is (AFAIK) R.HJ26 (Blue) or 27 (Dark blue). Both are valued at US$5 in Bale.

Also regarding the inverted watermark on the OPDA revenue. Bale states that the watermark can be inverted, facing left or right as well as normal. There are no differences in the valuations. I guess the paper was plopped in the press at whatever orientation the printed wanted.

BTW, Doron Waide is a good source of revenue material. He frequently lists on eBay and publishes his own auction catalogs.

Hmm, that reminds me I should make a listing of dealers and auction houses that specialize in Palestine.

More later,

makielb · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 04:36:06 am

Just looked at the Cherrystone January 11, 2012 "Santa Fe Collection of the Middle East" auction catalog.

Here is lot 376 description:

Quote:

BRITISH COMMONWEALTH PALESTINE 1918-42 The award winning collection (last shown in London 2000 where it received a gold), most still on the original pages (16 frames), plus earlier and unfinished exhibits; others unfortunately removed and placed among 14 large stock books, essential forming a huge working stock of stamps and postal history of Palestine, with hundreds of additional singles, blocks, part sheets, used and unused varieties, classified by Scott's, Gibbons and Dorfman. Postal History precedes the issued stamps, with extensive study of E.E.F. Forces Mail (Egyptian Expeditionary Force) Base Army Post Offices , outbound and incoming mail, with interesting censor markings and destinations, French Detachment, Indian Expeditionary Force, New Zealand Mounted Rifles Brigade mail, Light Horse Australian Imperial Force, Prisoner of War Mail, Internee correspondence, Civilian mail (to Chile, Switzerland, United States, Egypt etc.), The first Interim Period, First Stamp of Palestine 1pi blue, indigo, study with 37 unused (five "A 18" control blocks), 36 used including block of four, used on pieces and coverfronts, seven covers including "only known double rate" (two singles on American Red Cross cover to New York). In addition, there is plate proof on smooth white paper, top sheet margin block of four, single and block of four overprinted Specimen. The "blues" continue with SG 2 sheet of 120 (pos.10 "Millilmes", cat £16,200+), plus additional B18 A control blocks, numerous used singles and six cards to Egypt or USA. There are six full sheets of 120xSG 3, showing various transfers, sheet of SG 4 (pos.11 missing Arabic), control C18B, pane of 53 (one the largest known multiples of this printing), also dozens of interesting usages on cover; extensive Postage Dues, 1923 strips of five, blocks of four, also Madagascar UPU Specimens; 1924 1m numeral, six different perforated trial color proofs, ex-Sacher collection, with Muentz cert. (of the four complete sets believed to exist, two have been broken up and one is in the Crown Agents archives), die proofs of 1928 4m and 13m values (one only reported for each value), also overprinted and perf. Specimen, singles and pairs, 1943 registered cover franked with £1 (plus additional stamps) flown via the South Atlantic to USA (one of very few recorded commercially used covers with £1 franking, Sorani cert.), another cover with 90m bister, registered 23 Dec. 1927 to London (very rare); Zeppelin Flights (three diff.), Palestine stamps "used abroad" in 1918 covers from Adana, Aleppo, Damascus, Tripoli, mixed franking with Cilicia, Beirut, Zahle, Bekaa censor markings "Passe a lata Censure O.E.T.A. Ouest"; original drawing submitted in 1945 for 3 mils stamp (not approved), seven booklets incl. SG SB1,2 (each exploded, contents complete, plus another with stamps removed), SB4 (unexploded, plus another with stamps removed), two 150m "dummy booklets" with General Electric ads (no stamps), coils strips, ribbed paper varieties, rolls. There are hundreds of covers and cards, thousands of used and unused stamps, cancellations, varieties from minor to major, many identified by types (Dorfman handbook listings), signed Muentz and other experts, Specimen overprints, ribbed paper, gutter pairs, postal stationery and revenues. In addition to the gold-medal collection, there are several other holdings incorporated into this lot, with further studies of overprints and settlings, covers, postcards, used and unused errors and varieties, cataloguing up to $1,000. This single lot can be easily written up again and form the basis for a world-class exhibit, with several lesser level entries. A unique opportunity to acquire an immense and fascinating collection n/a

Sigh

I had better start buying some lottery tickets.

makielb · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 05:25:35 am

Here's a list of auction houses. I have used them all with great satisfaction. They all issue "hard" catalogs as well as on-line materials.

makielb · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 09:13:45 am

And in the spirit of the season here are a few items from Nazareth, Bethlehem and Jerusalem.

Happy Solstice!

tonymacg · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 09:56:15 am

Thanks for posting that IEF cover, Mike! And I suppose you noticed that very commercial-looking cover to the infamous Bela Sekula. What a fascinating collection: do keep it coming, please.

birder · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 13:41:44 pm

makielb wrote:

Birder-

The revenues that you posted earlier are:

R.OP32 (3rd series revenues) value US$10
R.CF73 (1930) value US$1.50

Thanks for the catalog numbers and values Mike. I have duly noted these down. I think I will also post the remaining scans (5 more stamps).

For such a meagre collection would it be wise to invest in Bale's or any other pricey catalog?

Thanks and regards.

birder · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 13:46:39 pm

More revenues

birder · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 13:50:57 pm

makielb wrote:

The stamp appears to be different as the two side panels are in a different shade altogether.

Lovely collection Mike. Thanks for sharing.

makielb · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 23:10:31 pm

Merry Christmas to all!

First, it seems that two scans I used yesterday didn't come through as cropped. :evil:

Perhaps these will.

Now, on to comments and questions -

Birder - The side panels ARE different as this is SG4 which is essentially SG3 (1 piastre ultramarine) overprinted as the 5 milliemes, thus giving the appearance of different colored side panels.

As to investing in Bale for a small collection - I would not recommend it. Keep posting the revenues and I will do my best to get numbers back to you.

Tony-

The Bela Sekula cover is interesting for so many reasons. Second, it was indeed a commercial cover sent to him. First though, it has the 8 mils brown (shades and or yellow-brown). This particular 8 mils didn't cover a rate, thus it is always seen as a make-up stamp.

The 8 mils yellow-brown was first printed in 1927 (148,750 on thin semi-transparent paper). In February, 1928 it was printed on vertically ribbed paper (288,250). The post card rate at the time was 7 mils.

The color of the eight mils was changed on 1 June 1932 when the post card rate increased to 8 mils AND the 8 mils scarlet stamp was released.

I would suggest that any Palestine collector should look for good copies of this stamp with both papers, mint and used (nice CDS would be best) as in the future it "should" rise in value.

Getting it on cover is even better. This example is only one of two that I have. I always bid on them - so don't cross me here! :twisted:


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