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Hi everyone,

Just been sorting through some old stockpiles of reds and came across this rough paper with a dramatic flaw in the SW region which under high mag. appears to be a "Tin Shed".

At first I thought it was a surface abrasion or paper mite attack but under high magnification the paper surface appears intact. If the paper was smooth there would be NO problem,it would be a nice 'Tin Shed'.

However is a rough paper print of 1918 and according to the ACSC all accounted for supplies of the rough paper were locally gummed AFTER printing which meant 'Tin Shed' Flaws from rough paper were not possible. What do the experts say??

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The Best Shades Are Red

ACSC says "the sheets were gummed before printing".

Page 4/40, just over half way down the page.

Cheers
Chris

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Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.

Thanks Chris,
I appear to stand corrected on this issue. It happened that I was not reading the latest and correct? version of the ACSC; which is of course the 2007 issue. The 1998 ACSC issue certainly states this ( the paper was gummed after printing),see page C20 if you have this catalogue.

However in the article by Dr Geoff Kellow( Philately In Australia,Sept 1998 "The Rough paper Of 1916-1918") and the later issue of the ACSC 2007, both do now state that the best conclusion is that J.B.Cooke must have gummed the paper before printing printing but there are no archival records available to prove this statement of fact.
I am still confused as up until 1998 the ACSC states that NO examples of rough paper have been seen with "Tin Shed' Flaws.

Have they ( Rough Paper 'Tin Shed' Flaws )now been seen and accepted as varieties of the 1d Red and are they now a common and accepted flaw as readily seen as on the smooth paper? I certainly haven't seen one like this before. What value would one place on this item?


regards and many thanks for the input

heldo1

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The Best Shades Are Red

A few random thoughts....

My info is from the 2007 edition, so I'll assume it's correct till I hear otherwise.

I don't have a Tin Shed on rough paper, nor have I ever seen one.

I've seen a lot of Tin Sheds, none have ever taken the form of a diagonal series of blotches. They seem to come in 3 distinct forms. Thin vertical streaks, wider horizontal streaks (as you have shown above), or irregular patches.

Value? Who can say?!

Cheers
Chris

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Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.

Found a few of these in the recent weeks and was wondering what anyone else had.

For those of you that don't know how this happens when the glueing of the reverse of the stamp is coated some glue is transferred to the front of the stamp and dries.

The stamp is printed and purchased and then soaked of the envelope at this point the glue comes of the front of the stamp taking with it what ink it had on top with it. And any postmark too.

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I AM ALWAYS IN THE MIDDLE
Post your KGV faults on the stampboard wiki.

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I AM ALWAYS IN THE MIDDLE
Post your KGV faults on the stampboard wiki.

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I AM ALWAYS IN THE MIDDLE
Post your KGV faults on the stampboard wiki.

_________________
I AM ALWAYS IN THE MIDDLE
Post your KGV faults on the stampboard wiki.

_________________
I AM ALWAYS IN THE MIDDLE
Post your KGV faults on the stampboard wiki.

How can you tell if it is a tin shed flaw and not scratched, etc?

Good question
Maybe someone else can add to this

But I look for

no paper damage

Odd shapes (post 1+3+5)

Left over ink (post 2+3+4)

No listed flaw (all)

Post 2 was on paper when I got it and I actually watch the ink come off in the bowl couldn't get it out quick enough

_________________
I AM ALWAYS IN THE MIDDLE
Post your KGV faults on the stampboard wiki.

Here are a couple that I've always thought were tin shed flaws, but never had verified. They started life as a pair (the cancel matches perfectly between them) but someone split them up before they got to me.

(Nice compartment lines on them, even if they aren't tin sheds





Cheers.

Craig

One more: Is it coincidental with the watermark?

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Anyone else accumulating NWPI material for research?

Hello OpusMcN, nice stamps
These are rough papers.
So no thin shed

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Found the O.S. 1/- 2nd watermark roo

Here's a 'tin shed' flaw in the making - unfortunately not a 'KGV' example.

Although this is a mint stamp, the gum? has partially fallen off, removing part of two adjacent shade lines. You can see the residual gum? around the edges.

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Anyone else accumulating NWPI material for research?

_________________
Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.

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Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.

Good information to know. Thanks!

(I'll keep looking for tin sheds

Cheers,

Craig

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Why on earth are these referred to as "tin shed" flaws? Why not "glue remnant" flaws, or some such?

It is a very old name. The 'argument' went that the building used by the Note and Stamp Printer in Melbourne was an old tin shed that was in bad condition. In truth, the building was brick and sound, it really is just a case of gum having gotten onto the printing surface of the paper.

But good luck getting a change in name for these.

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

"Looks like they were printed in an old tin shed"

I get it! ...and I like the name.

Hopefully these are tin shed flaws, please let me know if not!
Second one has a bit of tin shed and a non constant flaw on the emu neck
Lundy

My worst - or best, whichever way you look at it -

Hi everyone,

Did someone say 'tin shed' flaws?.

Here are some of my best or worse examples of tin shed flaws.

As always eternal apologies for the scan quality.

Cheers,

Stampmanalan

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Stampmanalan

Hi Stampmanalan,
Could you please do individual scans (at 600dpi) of the 2nd & 3rd stamps and post them here.

Best regards David

Can somone please explain what 'Tin Shed' flaws are and how they excists, as I realy have no idea what it is

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Knowledge is Power, but it is worthless when you don't share it!

Hello Filajunkie,

Given my psuedonym I probably should answer this

Tin shed flaws are found when soaking stamps off paper. The ink literally lifts off, like a piece of film, and you can stick it back on if you're quick enough. I did this the first time I saw it happen!

The reason for the ink lifting, is that something has gotton onto the paper prior to printing. This has then prevented the ink from bonding with the paper. The ink bonds with whatever is between the ink and the paper and water dissolves this substances, which is why it is thought to be gum that has splashed onto the paper during the gumming process.

Cheers
David

Thanks for answering that question David.

I have only one question left.
Why in the world did they called it a tin shed flaw???

When I think of a tin shed, I think of a small building where they have sheeps in!

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Knowledge is Power, but it is worthless when you don't share it!

Hello Filajunkie,

The presses were operated in a corrugated iron roofed building without ceilings, and it had the nick-name of the 'Tin Shed'.

An alternative to the gum being the agent, is that of condensation dripping onto the paper, or more likely splattered onto the paper as droplets hit nearby surfaces, from the corrugated iron roof above. Hence 'tin shed' flaw.

Whether or not moisture on the paper is a cause for 'tin shed' flaws will have to be answered by someone with a bit of chemistry in their past; gum makes the most sense to me.

cheers
David

aha that explains the sheepsbuilding name then

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Knowledge is Power, but it is worthless when you don't share it!

Hello Heldo1

On your rough paper tin sheds, I found the following in a p/copy from an ASM (page 358 but no month or year on my p/copy but likely to be 7/ or 8/1946):

"Mr Chas. O. Dunn, of Brisbane, Queensland, has sent us three used copies of the 1981 Rough Unsurfaced Paper Penny Red in the Carmine shade. Two of these stamps are the substituted cliches, Dies I and II; the third is a normal specimen except that in all three stamps fine white lines are to be seen vertically down the whole face of the stamps. We have not previously seen anything quite like these specimens, but they do resemble stamps which have been blotched on account of drips of moisture falling from the galvanised roof onto the plate. This happened frequently in the cold weather when stamp printing was done in what was irreverently called 'The Tin Shed.' We are inclined to believe the stamps shown us can be classified as specimens affected by moisture coming into contact with the ink on the plate. All specimens noted by us, and we have examined hundreds, have one feature in common, all the lines run more or less vertically and no two specimens are precisely alike.
It is possible also, that the rough unsurfaced paper helped to produce a different effect (namely, less blotching) than is usually noted in association with the smoother surface papers." [Our Commonwealth Corner--Burchett]

I don't know about the water on the plate causing the flaws, but at least you'll know that you're rough papers are not orphans!

I wonder if the 'tin shedded' substituted cliches have survived?

Great example - who has more of these?

Here are a couple for you Glen, do you have any more boxes of reds you don't have time to sort?

ken

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KGV tragic

Spectacular examples, especially the left hand one.

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

A few Tin Sheds from my collection. I have not cleaned these since I got them, would re-soaking the stamps cause anymore ink to sail away?

Regards Chris

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"Where there's a will, I want to be in it."

I wouldn't have thought so. The initial soaking (to get them off the envelopes) should have lifted all the gum on the face.

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

These are my two tin-sheds

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The more I learn the less I know...

If they came from me, my eyesight is worse than I thought it was.

Glen

Here are 3 of my "Tin sheds"

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Donald.
Aus KGV Head Addict !

I'm going to stick my neck out & say I don't think those are Tin Sheds, they look more like surface abrasions.

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Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.

Any ideas about this 2d? It doesn't seem to be surface damage and extends through the whole left side of the stamp...

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The more I learn the less I know...

That one is definitely a Tin Shed. The proving evidence is that the postmark is missing as well as the red ink at the flaw sites.

_________________
Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.