Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

Caveat Lepus! As there is no way to actually stop bunnies from throwing money around, and as the normal rules of Buyer Beware don't apply to them, I don't see that there is much you can do. Whether or not the item is a fake/copy/forgery/thin/torn/repaired/auction-catalogue-cut-out/kids-drawing they will still throw money at it. Putting one small finger in the dyke by stopping Shareman from making his copies won't actually help much.

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Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics GB stamps info: http://www.norphil.co.uk - also /catalog for our ecommerce site, blog.norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk and Ian_norvic on twitter

So we just say it is all too hard, do we Ian? There are others doing it so why not everyone do it? I guess I should just stop reporting forgeries to eBay and let the bunnies suffer for their lack of knowledge and experience?

Some of the faked OS overprints and, more particularly, OS perforations on Australian stamps are quite clever. An inexperienced collector can be (and regularly are) easily fooled. Someone with the right experience and reference copies will eventually tell them they have been had.

The buyer will then, potentially, be hundreds of dollars out of pocket and totally disenchanted with collecting.

Yes, I realise we cannot stop all the fakery and protect all the bunnies, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't at least try!

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

I agree with you. I've glanced through some of the discussions about faked OS perforations and realize that they are very danngerous, being on genuine stamps.

I understood that what Shareman is proposing is something quite different, especially in the light of his latest messages about clear marking that they are copies.

I guess as I don't collect the area(s) that he is making copies of I shouldn't really comment on the subject at all.

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Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics GB stamps info: http://www.norphil.co.uk - also /catalog for our ecommerce site, blog.norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk and Ian_norvic on twitter

Ian, I don't think that not collecting a particular area negates your right to comment. I am concerned that the marks will be 'secret marks', including markings on the reverse. Such marks need to be obvious and overt. The easiest way, as far as I am concerned is a printed postmark that says COPY or FACSIMILE. Makes it obvious to all but the most brainless bunny.

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Peter & Ian,

The forger has stated that he is in it for the money. Any markings that show them as forgeries will ruin his plans for making any.

Slovakia is a poor country and he is only earning 400 Euros a month at honest work and thinks that this plan will make him more.

David B.

p.s. anyone here seen the film Eurotrip.

Of course he is in it to make money: it would be naive to think otherwise. However I am willing to wait for this. Several people here seem to ignore any conciliatory comments that he makes:

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Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics GB stamps info: http://www.norphil.co.uk - also /catalog for our ecommerce site, blog.norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk and Ian_norvic on twitter

p.s. anyone here seen the film Eurotrip.???

I am sorry David Benson but how you can judge country by stupid american movie filmed in Czech Republic??? This is really offensive! Please learn something about our country and then speak something. I appreciate your opinion about what i am doing, even it is strong criticism, because you have a high knowladge in area of stamps, but never judge our country by evidences from stupid movie! thank you

Yes as i said before i do it for money, but it is not only thing why i am doing it. Second one is make something which will be here next generations and i think HQ forgeries of stamps is interesting way which i enjoy.

No, it will not ruin my plans. One of my first works - Forgery of Blue Mauritius Post Office - Limited Edition from plate which was destroyed after print of six blocks of 6 stamps was sold for more than reprints from original plates. Theese 36 forgeries bear logo of our studio on whole reverse.

Shareman,

actually I have been to Bratislava a few times and know it's nothing like the film depicts.

I do not believe that any of your " stamps " contain any secret marks and that we should even be discussing them with you, an admitted forger, this is a Stamp Chat, not a place where admitted forgers should be allowed to participate.

I repeat, the moderators should close this thread,

David B.

You MUST place ''copy" IN BLACK over the front of stamp if you are not trying to incite the gullible from buying your fakes to re-sell as originals after they OBVIOUSLY wash the gum off to remove the word COPY. . . .

The intent of the OP is supposed to be to provide reproductions of valuable stamps to people who can't afford the real thing. Then you don't have those blank spaces in the album eternally staring at you, and a repro is better than nothing, at least you get the 'sense' of what the item looks like, similar to a book on art.

Writing all over the face of the stamp, who would want it then? Might as well clip the colour plates from an auction catalogue.

The solution to avoid the wording on reverse being washed off is simple: print it onto the stamp before applying gum.

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

We are talking forgeries of very high value stamps. Normally, such forgeries are stuck onto album pages along with low value stamps of the same vintage before they are offered on eBay..

Anything printed or not printed on the back of the stamp becomes inconsequential in such cases.

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http://princelystatecoins.wordpress.com
http://oldindiacoins.wordpress.com

I have been following this thread closely; for the simple reason that in the early daze on feebay I got 'got-beautifully' by one of the early con-artists - thankfully now long-gone.

A replica of a desirable object is sometimes better than the blank space - as a reference only.

This is a valid argument when, and only when, there is absolutely NO chance that punters cannot be confused about the provenance of the item.

Here on Stampboards, we have seen instances of very rare stamps attempting to be passed off as the real deal - when we know it is impossible.

Despite the long and un-illustrious history of forgeries, there are always going to be those individuals who will attempt it.

My own (personal) suggestion to Shareman - if he is that good as a forger - is that he make an honest living by hiring himself out as a detective in the field. "Set a thief to catch a thief" is one saying that comes to mind.

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FORESTS OLD, PASTURES NEW
(An expert is one who knows more and more, about less and less)

This was raised by me and has already been discussed earlier in the thread, and Shareman has already agreed that any future reproductions will have the "copy" or "reprint" or whatever printed under the gum.

Norm

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Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

Again, as immediately above, I have already raised this issue, and Shareman did not have a satisfactory answer. I have enough early duplicated Great Britain material to put up a collection and seed it with one or two very high value fakes and could put it on eBay with the fakes added in a Stock Book or Album and let the Bunnies fight over it.

Shareman's answer was to the effect that it was not his problem and that eBay should change the listing rules, which is actually a complete nonsense!

I am moving from the centre, and moving more and more towards the cease and desist making fakes point of view.

Norm

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Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

I don't think anyone who considers themselves to be a stamp collector would disagree that in a perfect world, no forged material would exist (please correct me if I am wrong). If I could wave a magic want and stop all historic and contemporary forgeries from having existed, I would.

However, that's clearly not possible. I can't control what changes people make to real stamps (forged OS perfins, regums, whatever) nor can I stop people printing whatever they want on bits of paper

What therefore are my options? As far as I can tell, if I want to buy a high-value (to me) item, I have to go to a reputable dealer or perhaps a trusted collector/stamp club member and procure the item from them. Ideally I'd also have enough knowledge of my area of interest that I can tell the good from the bad. Not sure that whining that I don't like the fact forgeries exist or are being made achieves anything practical.

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Norbert

Norm, i see myself in position of seller of knifes. Knifes can be used and are used for injuring and killing people, but they can be also used as a protection, sport equipment or hunt equipment or our mams use it for cutting of vegatable.
Should we judge sellers of knifes because they sell things which can be and are abused every day?

So are you suggesting that enough publicity that has resulted in getting eBay sellers of forgeries banned, or an APTA member getting removed fron the APTA for creating forgeries and selling them for huge sums over and above their real value is a bad thing?

That is one of this Boards real achievements, as has been the SCADS webpage.

Or do you think that Stampboards members should just let this go and say Oh, Well, it's part of our hobby, and ignore the whole thing?

Norm

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Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

Knives are real, made of a substance which can cause any life form to be seriously damaged when used to cut into something alive. You have made an utterly lousy analogy. Try harder.

Norm

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Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

No, I'm not. But I don't consider that whining, I consider it taking positive actions...

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Norbert

Why lousy analogy?

My forgeries are things which serve to people as a spacefillers. My intention is good.
But my forgeries can be abused for cheating people. - Bad result of my work.

Knifes serve to people for e.g. cutting of vegatebles. Their intetion is good.
But their knifes can be abused for injuring people. - Bad result of their work.

Why abused good thing vs. abused good thing is bad analogy?

So... please cite posts on this thread that you consider to be "whining" as opposed to simple discussion of the topic raised by the OP.

My personal view is that the whole discussion on this thread has been pretty positive, and considering the subject of the discussion, very passive and mostly polite. I don't see any "whining".

Norm

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Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

OK, I will make this as simple as possible. What if I make fake knives made of rubber?

Norm

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Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

Shareman,

I love the avatar.

Dear Norm,

I am sorry, my post to which you replied must not have been clear. I'm not accusing anyone on this thread of whining!

What I was getting at is what steps I can take in order to avoid getting stung by forgeries if I want to buy a high-value item. I managed to think of a couple that should help:

1) Buy from reputable dealer
2) Buy from a fellow collector you trust, perhaps as part of a stamp club
3) Know your area, so you can spot fakes

I was hoping people could suggest other options open to me that would help. I mused that the options that would not be of any help, should I take them are:

1) Wish things were different and that forgeries never exist
2) Whine about the fact that they do

Please let me know what positive steps I can take to make my purchases of high value items without getting landed with a fake.

All the best,
Norbert

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Norbert

Well, that pretty much covers it all, especially your point 3.

Norm

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Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

I think this is a very unfortunate thread. Possibly because of a language difference.

Unfortunate because the title is wrong.

Shareman is not making forgeries, he is making replicas. Like a print of a painting. The appearance, intent and purpose of the two are entirely different.

Shareman has never indicated that he intended to defraud anyone with his productions, nor that a subsequent owner should be able to do so. Therefore it is NOT forgery.

The best advice he can get from here is an opinion about what would sufficiently identify his replicas as such, so that later fraud is not possible.

If he were indeed making forgeries, with the intention of defrauding someone, why in blue blazes would he advertise the fact on here before doing so?

What I don't comprehend is why there is a market. Personally, I wouldn't bother with a replica. I would print a black and white, or slightly undersize image of the missing stamp directly on my album page, so if I did ever obtain one I could stick a mount over it and insert the stamp. I can't see the sense in paying someone for an item of essentially no value to me ... but that's entirely an individual choice.

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A man might as well marry ... if he finds a good wife he will be happy ... if not, he will become a philosopher.
Collecting Greater New Guinea & Macropods (Kangaroos & Wallabies).

Well, that's an easy one: print the word "Replica" on the front of them

use Shareman's Avatar on each of the forgeries he produces,

David B.

Personally I would never ever purchase replica's. I would rather a blank spot in my collection than a bit of trash to fill its space. "Blank rather than Wank"

As to the question, are you bad for making clearly marked replica's and selling them, I would say no. Clearly there is a market for people who love buying worthless junk.

sandtester,

where does anyone mention,

" As to the question, are you bad for making clearly marked replica's and selling them "

he says,

" I am selling stamp forgeries, am I bad "

(of course he should have said making instead of selling

David B.

Hans, its not NOW but into the Future where the Problems lay.
"A little bit of Knowledge is a dangerous thing" is an old saying that is VERY true here.

Over the years I have had doxens of people come into the shop to sell a collection,telling me. "Oh The BLACK SWAN is in there,thats worth a bit "

EVERY TIME it ends up being the Australia 1954 Comm the 1st West Aust Stamp worth about 5c.

Even Philly got caught a few years back, he came in with a stamp that he thought was worth a few $1000.00.only to be shattered when I showed him the back of the stamp, where it said COPY or something like that, can,t remember exactly.

But this is where the problem lies IN THE FUTURE, when someone on sells a collection,with these sort of things in them.to someone who only has basic knowledge,and who thinks they are buying a 2 Pound Roo.or a mint penny black.

etc,the list can be endless

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Nunawading Stamp Fair
Last Sunday of Every Month - Jaycees Hall Silver Grove - Nunawading.

There was a time in Australia where you needed a license to buy a colour printing machine and even when computers started being commonplace in Australia only license holders could but a colour printer.

Logical reason (for the government) was that it would make it easy for forgers to print banknote. One of the reasons they decided to try out plastic instead of paper.

There must be literally 100's of forgers producing colour laser stamp replicas but the problem has been the perforating. Mr Shareman never answered the question about the gauges he is using and whether they are the same as the issued stamps.

Luckily honest and reliable people like Seb Delcampe has realised that this type of crap should not be sold on his site and it looks like Ebay will be banning them too.

It is already banned on the APS Stampstore. The only way these crooks can sell their wares is on their own websites.

David B.

I am looking to buy forgeries of Russian stamps....

PS. Nothing left to collect in genuine issues....

Dare I presume that you are looking for contemporary forgeries or, at least, made some time ago? If not, you might have come to the right place, just give Shareman your order.

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Thank you, i will try to contact him

re.



and that's the reason why this thread should be locked and Shareman banned,

David B.

You would ban Shareman for something that you find distasteful.......

I primised that i will not sell here and i will NOT!
Sorry AFStamps i can not help you, but i believe soon or later you will find my shop.



Perforation is same as a genuine issues or smaller of 0.5 perf.

You could use a totally different perf gauge on the stamps, that would 'help' people from being fooled--a 2-point difference in perfs will look about the same to the viewer, who will be paying most of their attention to the design on the stamp, not the perfs. Of course, that could lead to someone doing a reperf job...now there's an interesting scenario, a reperf of a forgery, its a crime done to a crime.

Coming back to the matter of secret marks on the obverse, which the OP apparently still has not shown us, despite being asked repeatedly.

What about micro-printing? The USA prints a tiny date of issue in the bottom margin; France and other countries used to put the name of the printer in the bottom margin. The seller could put the word "fake" or "reproduction" in 3-point font in the bottom margin, it would be big enough that it couldn't be reperfed off, but small enough that it doesn't distract from the stamp design.

Not to encourage Shareman, but if its going to happen, at least we could try to moderate the outcome.

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

I tried change perforation, but bigger shift than 0.5 perf, totaly change look of stamp if you have it in album side by side with other from same series.

As i said before i will show secret marks in cataloque, but secret marks of stamps what i showed you yet i will show you as soon as i come to home. - Saturday.

Micro-printing on obverse is another great idea, i will apply it on stamps where micro-printing is now, i will change it to mine. Thank you.
It will not change look of stamp, but i can use it only on stamps which have micro-printing.

I've seen similar things from Germany - exhibition sheets etc - which print the word "Neudruck" (= "Reprint") in the margin.

I think that's a good idea - clearly identifies the item without detracting from the "artwork".

Secret marks are NOT a good idea - for the exact reason I said earlier: they will "only" work for those in the know, and will NOT prevent those other than the privileged few from being conned somewhere down the line.

But that is the WHOLE POINT: to make the forgery/fake EASILY identifiable to prevent fraud...

Surely, it's not THAT difficult to grasp what is WRONG with selling fakes which cannot be easily picked out

I was joking - I am too advanced to buy modern replicas. I also not accepting those for free.

PS. My speciality is Russian philately and at my level many Russian collectors just presenting me forgeries free of charge.

I wonder which do more harm to philately and stamp collecting, modern forgeries or bogus stamps from bogus states:

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34186

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Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics GB stamps info: http://www.norphil.co.uk - also /catalog for our ecommerce site, blog.norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk and Ian_norvic on twitter

Both, I think...

Gosh, a few folks here could spark up their sense of humour a tad!

I went to the hardware shop the other day and said to the guy behind the counter 'I'd like some nails please'. He said 'Fine, how long do you want them?'. 'I was hoping I could keep them' I replied.

Hopefully that helps lift the mood!

Back to the topic, today is the day our reprint-making club member will be able to show us some of the 'secret marks'. I look forward to this new input to the debate.

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Norbert

Hello forum,
here is secret mark of Sc 142:

As you can see on strips of genuine and replica stamps are same gaps except 3 locations, because strips are little bit fatter. There are more diffrences but i want some of them keep secret.

I still can't see any difference.


What's the point of having secret marks if only you know about them?

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My wantlist for Malta Revenues