Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

World's No#1 place to discuss STAMP COLLECTING and PHILATELY!
 

ZERO cost to ANYONE  -  NO annoying ads everywhere!

It is currently Tue May 21, 2013 18:47:32 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 01:01:51 am 
Offline
PLATINUM Star Mega Stamp Poster
PLATINUM Star Mega Stamp Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 20:13:05 pm
Posts: 457
Location: Cumbria, UK
I have a number of US Parcel Post stamps with imperf sides:

Image

Searching around the internet, ebay, delcampe, etc the vast majority of these stamps are perforated on all sides, and I found examples with the perforated selvedge attached on all four of the sides.

So where have these imperf sides come from?

Thanks for any info - Dave.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 01:40:18 am 
Offline
I was online for our Birthday Number 3!
I was online for our Birthday Number 3!
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 02:36:16 am
Posts: 2665
Location: Surrey, UK
DaveR wrote:
I have a number of US Parcel Post stamps with imperf sides:

Image

Searching around the internet, ebay, delcampe, etc the vast majority of these stamps are perforated on all sides, and I found examples with the perforated selvedge attached on all four of the sides.

So where have these imperf sides come from?

Thanks for any info - Dave.

I've read that these stamps were printed in sheets of 180 which were then cut into four panes each of 45 stamps for delivery to post offices.

There are horizontal and vertical guidelines showing on some of the straight edges on stamps in this set so I wonder if the stamps were imperf next to the guidelines and the guidelines were where the panes were guillotined (or if not imperf on this side next to the guideline maybe there was a wing margin that was cut off with the guillotine).

_________________
Nigel


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 02:02:46 am 
Offline
BLUE Shooting Star Posting MADMAN!
BLUE Shooting Star Posting MADMAN!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 02:27:15 am
Posts: 774
Location: The People's Republic of Illinois
The term used over here for those is "natural straight edge". I personally do not mind them, but most collectors consider them a negative.

_________________
www.revenue-collector.com - Member APS, ARA
Click here to see my U.S. revenue wantlist.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 02:48:43 am 
Offline
PLATINUM Star Mega Stamp Poster
PLATINUM Star Mega Stamp Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 20:13:05 pm
Posts: 457
Location: Cumbria, UK
Looks like Nigel's spot on.

Here's a parcel postage due sheet found with more googling -

Image

I too read about the sheet of 180 being cut into four panes of 45, but I envisaged a sheet of four separate perforated panes. The two diagonal lines seem to indicate that they were printed as four separate panes, just not fully perforated :?:

And it's another nice example of line perforations.

revenuecollector wrote:
The term used over here for those is "natural straight edge". I personally do not mind them, but most collectors consider them a negative.

I like the GB wing margins as well - it's how they were printed. Particularly if the check letters indicate that there should be one :!:

Thanks - Dave.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 06:34:19 am 
Offline
RED Shooting Star Posting MANIAC!
RED Shooting Star Posting MANIAC!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:59:28 am
Posts: 1147
Location: Garden City, NY, USA
DaveR

These natural straight edges are often referred to by philatelic professionals (dealers, etc.) as "rarities of the future," since so many here are being reperforated to satisfy collector requirements for fully perforated stamps. I particularly like the one you scanned showing the two straight edges. I like to call these "doubly straight."

Kindest regards

Richard Debney


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:10:03 am 
Offline
GOLD Shooting Star Stampboards LEGEND!
GOLD Shooting Star Stampboards LEGEND!
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 03:15:22 am
Posts: 7703
Location: Columbus, Ohio. USA
Learn something every day. In 60 years of collecting, I never knew that these were printed in panes of 45. Good trivia question!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 20:28:57 pm 
Offline
PLATINUM Star Mega Stamp Poster
PLATINUM Star Mega Stamp Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 20:13:05 pm
Posts: 457
Location: Cumbria, UK
capetriangle wrote:
These natural straight edges are often referred to by philatelic professionals (dealers, etc.) as "rarities of the future," since so many here are being reperforated to satisfy collector requirements for fully perforated stamps. I particularly like the one you scanned showing the two straight edges. I like to call these "doubly straight."


Why on earth reperforate this :?: - it tells an excellent story about how these stamps were printed :roll:

Image

108,153,993 million of these 5 cent stamps were issued. There is only one of these per sheet of 180, and say 1% have survived in collections = there's only some 6,000 of these out there :!:

In fact, given this, it's surprising there are not 'straight edged' ones being made by trimming perforated ones.

Ref - http://www.1847usa.com/ByYear/1912.htm - Also an interesting story around these stamps - they only had a life of 6 months as specifically parcel post stamps.

Dave.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 00:44:45 am 
Offline
RED Shooting Star Posting MANIAC!
RED Shooting Star Posting MANIAC!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:59:28 am
Posts: 1147
Location: Garden City, NY, USA
DaveR

As far as the doubly straight stamps are concerned there are actually four stamps per pane of 180 subjects. As in:

1) s.e. at bottom and right

2) s.e. at bottom and left

3) s.e. at top and right

4) s.e. at top and left


These, of course, were produced as a result of the guillotining of the panes of 180 subjects into four "post office panes" of 45. So 1 in 45 stamps have the two straight edges or 2.22%

You have also increased the number for the quantity sold given by Scott by a million times. The number 108,153,993 (from the Scott Specialized) indicates the actual number of stamps sold which could have resulted in as many as 2,403,422 "post office panes" of 45. (and three stamps over) This, of course, is dependent upon how the stamps were sold and how the remainders from the post offices were returned for destruction.

As far as survival rates are concerned I think a 3% figure is a better one to use, as discussed in other threads. So 3% of 2,403,422 is at most 72,102. in whole numbers. So I essentially doubt your 6,000 number.

However, as far as reperforating these doubly straight stamps, it comes down to pure collector preference. I totally agree with you that they tell an interesting story about how these stamps (and others with two straight edges) were printed.

The well known case of a straight edge being deliberately created is, in my opinion, one of the funniest stories in philately.

A top margin U.S. C3a (the 1918 24c. carmine rose & blue Inverted Jenny) whilst being fraudulently reperforated to improve its appearance was accidentally reperforated 12 instead of 11.

This, of course, at least for a time led to a unique rarity (provided you accept the C3a as a "rarity" and not just a "costly") - one with three sides perforated 11 and the top at 12. The offending top has been trimmed so that it, at least, now looks somewhat like what it should do, even as an artificially smaller fake straight edge rather than a naturally occurring one.

We used to joke about this, at The Philatelic Foundation in New York, where I used to work.

"Wouldn't you just loved to have been in the room when the discovery was made, Schmuck it should be 11 not 12!"

Kindest regards

Richard Debney


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 04:43:14 am 
Offline
PLATINUM Star Mega Stamp Poster
PLATINUM Star Mega Stamp Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 20:13:05 pm
Posts: 457
Location: Cumbria, UK
Hi Richard.

Thanks for your extra info. When the answer as to where these straight edged ones came from, I suddenly realised that for my particular 5 cent - there was only one per sheet - (and 3 more with the 'other edges', all from the centre of the sheet).

The 1% was a wild guess - thanks for the correction that 3% is more reasonable. Still, that's not many out there - less now if they're being reperforated :!:

As for the million million - oops - a cut & paste from the web site I referenced, followed by not reading it properly :!: :oops: I'll see if the site has a contact email.

I find them a nice little set - an interesting history, a short life, nice engraving (http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16852&p=1662701&hilit=US+parcel+post+engraved#p1670523) and an interesting printing.

Thanks - Dave.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 06:35:46 am 
Offline
PLATINUM Star Mega Stamp Poster
PLATINUM Star Mega Stamp Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 20:13:05 pm
Posts: 457
Location: Cumbria, UK
And for completeness, here's the complete set - which won me the single page competition at our club's recent annual competition evening.

Image


Dave.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Brummie, ivqii, manfaefife, nightwatchman, Throgmorton and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


A powerful Google Custom Search Engine for JUST This Site

 

 

Loading
 
          

Click For Our Newest Issues

Click for our Current Auction

Internet Auctions-Buy & Sell Stamps

Melbourne 2013 - May 10-15

        

 
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.151s | 16 Queries | GZIP : On ]