Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

Announced today, going into effect on June 19, at least on U.S. eBay:

"A provision has been added stipulating that in some cases we may refund part of the cost of an item to the buyer, and receive reimbursement from the seller, to cover differences between the item described and the item actually received, such as items received with small parts missing or minor repairs needed. Buyers may be asked to provide written proof from an authorized third party detailing the cost of such repairs. In these cases, we will not require the buyer to return the item to the seller."


So the seller loses out on both the merchandise AND a portion of the original sales price... at eBay's determination. This is as bad as eBay's "if we decide the item is fake, we'll have the buyer destroy it at the seller's expense" policy.

I hope to heck that the seller has the option of saying "return for full refund ONLY". Otherwise, what if eBay, or this supposed "authorized expert", which presumably the seller will not even have access to, decides that the damage/missing parts/shortfall in condition is a much higher proportion of the original sale price than the seller does? Does the seller have any recourse?

eBay is yet again overstepping its bounds, especially in the world of collectibles.

I can think of no other venue that interferes between buyer and seller as much as eBay does. In what other world does the venue and the buyer get to determine what the seller's merchandise is worth and completely nullify his or her sale?

-Dan

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www.revenue-collector.com - Member APS, ARA
Click here to see my U.S. revenue wantlist.

I agree with you Dan.

Ebay will do what ebay wants. I've been trying to get sense from them on a couple of issues and just get generic gibberish as a response.

With a bit of luck, they will make things bad enough that no-one will use them. They simply don't understand that serving the needs of their users is good for business.

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A man might as well marry ... if he finds a good wife he will be happy ... if not, he will become a philosopher.
Collecting Greater New Guinea & Macropods (Kangaroos & Wallabies).

Dumb.

So if someone buys a $100 UV lamp off me, that costs me $80, claims it does not work well and gives ebay an alleged account for $30 to 'fix it', from their local expert dealer, I get a $30 sting AFTER the first $10 sting for FVF ad paypal screw?

So I get $60 in my pocket for an item I assumed had sold for $100.

And folks ask me why I do not bother with ebay.

Glen

Time will tell of course, but my guess would be that different legislation in different countries will govern what ebay can impose in terms of a returns and repair policy, especially if you sell something which is 'new'.

In the UK, I'm not sure for example that ebay.co.uk could impose conditions that directly conflict with statutory rights or the EU Distance Selling Regulations (when you sell something 'new').

This sounds like a policy more directed at things like electrical goods.

You can but hope when it comes to stamps, it could incentivise sellers to list stamps with accurate descriptions, scans of the reverse as well as front..... well, you can hope!

Brian

The sooner Stamp Goods disappear from Ebay the better. There are better places to get stamp stuff.

D.

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Visit my Website - http://WWW.DJMSTAMPS.COM for Australia & World Stamps, Collections and Accessories

Sounds like a good topic for a topic - alternatives to ebay. What has been your experience? I've found other places that give better service but ebay still seems to attract the sellers with the material I want and the bulk of the buyers when I'm selling.

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I'm John. I collect Italian, particularly the Mussolini years.

I'd love to sell somewhere other than eBay, but it isn't a realistic option currently and I'd don't think it will be for a while... it's one thing selling a few spare stamps, but selling stamps for a living (which is what I do now) you really need lots of buyers and worldwide scope.

I do like Delcampe but I find the site too cumbersome and overwhelming - the problem is that you can list on there and leave your sale running forever which means there's thousands of everything - and then there's all the different languages!

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Looking for revenues and unusual stamps?
Weekly auctions on eBay with over 300 curious new lots every week ... Website: http://www.ibredguy.co.uk/main.php

There are no alternatives to eBay that have the same amount of buyers, reaching the same amount of countries. I've tried three other sites including Delcampe and Stampwants and my sales have been pitiful, as well as the time I have put in making those listings being a complete waste of effort.

ditto,

David B.

Try New Zealand's TradeMe.

New Zealand is the only country in the world where eBay comes a distant second regarding online auctions.

There is loads of stuff available on TradeMe - not just stamps. Have a look and see what is on offer.

David.

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David Smitham
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Upper Hutt 2013 Stamp Show 13 - 15 September 2013 Upper Hutt, NZ.

David ebay will of course buy them - they always do, to any competitor that gains traction.

There was a start up in Australia called gumtree.com that many were using as an anti-ebay venue.

ebay bought them out.

So many folks have said to me 'we use gumtree now as that avoids supporting ebay".

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Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

So if you receive a stamp with a short perf and want it restored, or send it to Germany to be regummed, that will be paid by the seller for you?

The "fake" violin that eBay ordered the buyer to destroy was the most bone-headed fleaBay story I've ever heard (well, that and the Bible autographed by Jesus ).

Whenever I've filed a "not as described" dispute, I've been told by eBay/Paypal (same people of course): "send it back to the seller, with tracking proof, provide us the number that we can check online so we can prove to ourselves you returned it, then we'll order the seller to refund you."

Obviously this new policy is aimed primarily at sellers of electronics, mobiles, etc., but the Big Brother, "we call all the shots" mentality, and the sketchiness of the idea, "a 3rd party will decide the problem and the repair cost" rings a lot of alarm bells. Who chooses this 3rd party? When you apply to immigrate, the government will tell you "you need a medical cert, and here's a list of doctors we will accept a medical exam from". No going off and having your cousin/friend write up and sign whatever you want said.

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

feebay is convenient. feebay is 24/7 shopping, anywhere, any time. IMHO, feebay is the "Bill Gates" of shopping malls. And Praypal (deliberate spelling mistake) is credit-card mania gone mad.

Having said that; "caveat venditor" is as true as "caveat emptor" in on-line marketing, just as anywhere else.

Street-front shops get robbed. Buyers from street-front shops get the run-around. Physical addresses - whether on the ground or on the internet - can be, and are, traceable. feebay is a discomfort (okay, maybe 'agony') in the rectum?? ABSOLUTELY!

As Gustave Flaubert would have said; "you choose your poison, and the dose, you feel comfortable with".

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FORESTS OLD, PASTURES NEW
(An expert is one who knows more and more, about less and less)

Did you mean PreyPal?

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A man might as well marry ... if he finds a good wife he will be happy ... if not, he will become a philosopher.
Collecting Greater New Guinea & Macropods (Kangaroos & Wallabies).

There is a great and much cheaper for the seller alternative to Ebay. That is Delcampe. I personally left the money grabbing Ebay and joined Delcampe just over 2 years ago, and haven't regretted it.

It depends on what you collect. When it comes to U.S. revenues, the only stuff on Delcampe is overpriced garbage or misidentified material. I've been checking Delcampe once every 2 weeks for several years now... I've only ever bid on 1 item in all that time.

For my needs, Delcampe ranks well below Bidstart... which ranks well below eBay. It's not even close.

And therein lies the rub. eBay sucks, and sucks hard... but there's nothing out there even remotely at the same level, for either buying or selling.

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www.revenue-collector.com - Member APS, ARA
Click here to see my U.S. revenue wantlist.

Nail,head

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When a man comes to me for advice, I find out the kind of advice he wants, and I give it to him

The root of the problem is our respective governments. If they chose to, they could severely restrict the antics of EBay.

The points made earlier are also valid, EBay can say anything they want, but consumer law in whichever country they are trading in takes precedence.

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With kind regards, Jim

With all the complaints about Ebay has no one actually thought that if every sensible person closed their material on Ebay and put it on sites such as Delcampe and Bidstart, then there wouldn't be the comments such as those regarding US Revenues. The more items on Delcampe & Bidstart, the more choice we will have and the happier we'll all be.
Every day Ebay prove to us more and more that they don't want us.

Of course people have thought of that. But just how do you intend to force "every sensible person" to remove their wares from eBay, given the absolutely dismal sales numbers elsewhere?

Until Bidstart and Delcampe get MUCH better sell-through rates, sellers will not leave eBay, but Bidstart and Delcampe will not get better sell-through rates until sellers leave eBay.

It's a chicken and egg scenario.

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www.revenue-collector.com - Member APS, ARA
Click here to see my U.S. revenue wantlist.

When I left Ebay for Delcampe and Bidstart about 2 years ago, I sent an email to everyone who had bought from me in the 3 years I was on Ebay telling them where I could now be found.
Within 48 hours my buyers had come to find me on the new sites.
Tell them where you are and they'll continue coming.

Or they will block your email because of the spam you've sent them.

The problem with Delcampe and Bidstart is the fact that they let you list for free. When you are allowed to list for free the site gets clogged with tons and tons of junk 1c - 10c stamps that makes it virtually impossible to find the decent material.

I think what is lost here is that a very small percentage of "collectors" equate "decent material" with $$$$$. Many of the collectors that we encourage (here or through clubs and other online forums)to join the hobby, are thrilled when they can fill a gap in their album, complete a short set or simply start a new country inexpensively. They are not high-end philatelists or in it for the investment. They are simply collectors who enjoy playing with their stamps. They are very active on those other sites and have been removed from *Bay by virtue of the size (quantity) of the offerings or the minimum dollar values.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to get the hard to find stamp that catalogues at pennies, so you can complete a page in your album. Eventually these collectors look at the better quality material to add and that is when they buy a single stamp or set, rather than the grab bag of "stuff" and are thrilled when that add something like that to their collection. To you, the addition of that stamp or set may not be exciting, but for many "collectors" ..........they love it!

Each venue has it's own market to feed, but BidStart and Delcampe at least have real people that you can communicate with and they take action (sometimes immediately)............not something you can ever say about the big kid!

John A

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Armstrong'sStamps**http://www.armstrongsstamps.ca
Knowledge is Key.....Libraries work!

My experience with Ebay is indeed bitter sweet as about 2 years ago they slapped a penalty on my account accusing me of selling an item (not philatelic I hasten to add....) that wasn't real. Having bought it as the 'real thing' in all faith then I reasoned that there wouldn't be a problem listing it.

Not only did they delist the item but they then stuck me into Dante's 7 layers of hell as I tried through progressively obscure emails to get any sense from anyone as to what I had done wrong. At first they wouldn't even say that they thought the item was fake, never mind asking to inspect it or see proof of purchase.

They skirted round the issue for about a week without ever saying 'we think it's fake' using more and more obscure language until I got to the point where I seriously believed that I was dealing with an automated script and no human beings were involved.

The upshot was that they stuck a big warning on my account and three years of unblemished trading was shot by their decision that I was trying to sell a fake. No right of appeal. No one to actually talk to. No clear language. It really was frightening as it was 'Big Brother' there in my own home.

I've tried alternatives such as Delcampe and eBid in the UK but none of them seem to have the reach of the big bay, so I'm stuck with whatever they decide and whatever rates they want to put on it if I choose to list on their site.

This latest change seems quite draconian and whilst we may assume it only applies to FMCG and small consumer electronics, how long before the first story appears here about a dealer shafted on a key stamp from a set which a punter claims has a perf missing and has their account debited by big bay to recompense the buyer???

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G.B, Barbados, Line Engraved, Intaglio & Recess printed stampshttp://www.barbadosstamps.co.uk

Allowing a buyer to claim an item is "broken" or "needs repairs to work" obviously is aimed at the electronics categories. You can't say that "a stamp with a short perf needs to the perf replaced before it can 'work'--be displayed in an album".

The other policy change, discussed elsewhere on SB--that 90% or some-such of your items sold and shipped have to have a tracking number added to the "my eBay" info page on the US site to keep up Top Seller status--is more worrying. So if you sell 99 cent lots, you're supposed to charge $5 or somesuch for Certified Mail? What about international buyers, you'll tack on $11.95 for registered on top of regular postage? That's fine if you're dealing in 3-figure+ items, but what about the 90% of items that sell in the $1-20 range?

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

In plain simple English, Ebay is not the slightest bit interested in sellers who have items going at less that $1000.-.
So, get all your stamps off there. If we all know that our regular sellers have left Ebay and joined Delcampe, Bidstart, or any other site which respects its customers, we'll all see the same turnovers that were on ebay, but costing the seller a lot less in fees.

Might allow a buyer to 'nit pick' and say that the $50 stamp they bought has x wrong with it, and so should get a $20 refund.

D.

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Visit my Website - http://WWW.DJMSTAMPS.COM for Australia & World Stamps, Collections and Accessories

I've quoted from the blog listed below, with additional editorial comments by me - you can get much more information there about ebay. In essence, the sales trends on eBay do a lot to explain their relative lack of interest in collectibles. We are small potoatoes.

http://ebaystrategies.blogs.com/ebay_strategies/

That being said, here is the eBay category results for the first quarter, sorted by fastest growing category to lowest.

-- The Table doesn't copy to this message but the interesting part is that in first quarter 2012 the Coins & Stamps category sales were $376Million, which is near the bottom of the list of categories, and was DOWN 9% from the previous year. In contrast, the Home & Garden category sales were $2494Million and UP 22%. Also notable is total Fixed price sales were way up and auction sales way down. All of this suggests eBay is moving strongly in the direction of a fixed price marketplace for larger ticket products

eBay's March y/y SSS 22.4% growth is a new record growth rate for the eBay marketplace and is sure to generate some questions as to what's going on inside of eBay. To help understand what's driving the growth, here are three additional 'interior' data points for eBay's SSS data->
• eBay auctions - down 20.7% y/y
• eBay fixed-price - up 30.2% y/y
• eBay Motors (parts and accessories) - Up 37.4%
This is a record growth-rate for the fixed-price format and suggests that eBay's continued focus on trust, large merchants, daily deals, duplicate removal, and merchant quality continue to deliver results. The eBay Motors category slowed down a tad which is more of a seasonal change vs. anything to be concerned over. Even at 37.4%, it is a very rapidly growing category and a standout amongst other categories.

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Stamps on eBay: USA & worldwide. Lots of Dr. Who, Star Trek & Star Wars comics, too. Do Advanced search for Seller ddaannv and Keyword the country you collect (or leave Keyword blank).

Apart from stating the evident that we are inconsequential to ebay, and the quicker we leave the better, what exactly do you want to say. "That unless an item is over $1000 , then ebay isn't interested". Well, we've known that for ages.

Well, I'm not saying that exactly. I don't think they "want us to leave" rather we are such a small part of their business profitability that we don't have their attention. This is really short-sighted as even a small but profitable category merits attention. Unfortunately, eBay is not giving us that needed attention.

Does anyone know if coin and post card sellers are of the same opinion that we stamp buyers and sellers have? I would suspect so.

Until eBay recognizes that $376 Million per quarter is real money, they will continue to lose sales there.

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Stamps on eBay: USA & worldwide. Lots of Dr. Who, Star Trek & Star Wars comics, too. Do Advanced search for Seller ddaannv and Keyword the country you collect (or leave Keyword blank).

And many SB members say "I use eBay to buy cheaper material, but wouldn't pay 4-figures there for something."

Remember ye olden days of eBay, the late 1990s...their marketing pitch was "clean out your attic and sell those bits-n-pieces here! Turn your 'junk' into cash!"...then the BIN function was introduced, eBay motors category...The % of items available as auctions v. the % that are BIN would be interesting to know.

For some searches I do, I get a couple pages of auctions then a massive wad of BIN items, a lot of it overpriced, and some things that have been running for so long I've seen them for longer than many of the items I own. No wonder the prices for those are so high, the seller has to pay the fee for the listing over and over.

If the seller is a legit dealer, then you can "bid with confidence"...but what happens if your thousand-dollar stamp turns out 3 months later to be a reperf--oops, the 45-day deadline for disputes is past. Were you able to examine the item in person pre-sale? Nope, because its all online. Did the seller allow you to send the item off for expertising? Probably not, whereas public auction sales have a clause saying that extensions on sales for expertising can be arranged, and an item returned if it turns out to be "bad".

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

I know y/y is "year-on-year" (this year compared to last year), but what is SSS?

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

I just did a quick and nasty, starting with eBay.au, and expanding the search. At present, there are 3,762,597 items on the search I did, of which only 383,714 (a little over 10%) are Auctions.

I too have noticed that pretty much everything over a thousand dollars or so just keeps getting relisted and rarely sells at all, and stamp related items over $10,000, dare I say never sell. (Well, excepting China)

I really wonder if people having $10,000 or so items for sale, why not not put them up in a decent Auction? They would get something, and not have dead stock laying around, unless it is seen as a lure to "visit my store"

There has been one item (an Indian Banknote) which has been on and off eBay for as long as I can remember with an asking price of USD 20,000,000. Surely Auction worthy, as I cannot imagine anybody ever spending that sort of sum on an eBay item?

Norm

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Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

I definitely agree about high priced stamps - I do not sell those on eBay but at my favorite "real" stamp auction house.

As for extensions, I have always agreed to extensions when they are requested ahead of the purchase. I just did that last week on a classic US used stamp. As a buyer, I would not purchase such a stamp on eBay from a seller who did not agree to an extension pending a certificate, and would not do that in any case with a seller I didn't trust (think stamps-fishing and others).

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Stamps on eBay: USA & worldwide. Lots of Dr. Who, Star Trek & Star Wars comics, too. Do Advanced search for Seller ddaannv and Keyword the country you collect (or leave Keyword blank).

I used to have a couple China items in my Watch list, curious to see if they ever sold...they never did, were endlessly relisted, and finally I tired of the game. One was a Red Revenue item, the seller wanted $299,999, which was probably a few times what an auction would bring. Then there was a suspect-looking 1980 Monkey cover, at $8,000+; even if genuine, that's again several times auction value. Then there was the $69,999 Korean rarity, with Holcombe cert sure, but nonetheless, collectors of Korea are relatively thin in numbers.


That banknote.

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

In the forlorn hope of having a positive impact I have posted the following letter to one of the eBay executives who is responsible for marketing.

Mr. Devin Wenig
2145 Hamilton Avenue
SAN JOSE, CA 95125

Dear Mr. Wenig,

I am writing on behalf of myself and perhaps thousands of other sellers of stamps, coins, and postcards for collectors on eBay. I understand that such collectibles represent a small fraction of total sales on eBay and that your primary focus is on higher priced and higher volume categories such as Home & Garden, Computers, and Vehicles. Nevertheless our categories represent some $400M of sales last quarter, which is not peanuts.

I suspect you are well aware that our collectible categories currently have a negative Y/Y growth rate. I believe I know why this is happening, and hope that you have an interest in reversing this negative trend. Two of the recent changes to eBay policies are negatively impacting sellers of items in collectible categories, and driving some of those sellers to other venues. Having been a satisfied, active, long time seller on eBay, I very much want to stay with eBay

The greatest problems are these:

1a. The new requirement for tracking information. This is a huge problem. Buyers of stamps and postcards want sellers to use postage stamps on our mail. We risk negative feedback if we don't use nice postage stamps. This may be unique to these categories, but merits your attention. Is it at all possible to exempt these categories from the tracking information requirement?

1b. The new requirement for tracking information is also frankly insulting to stamp and postcard sellers because we must choose between annoying our buyer by not mailing with postage stamps versus losing a fee discount (and perhaps favored listings in "best match")

2. EBay can do more to police these categories against fraudulent sellers and shill bidders. As just one of many examples, stamps_fishing is a flagrant violator of eBay rules by selling many kinds of fraudulently altered postage stamps to collectors. I would refer your staff to Stampboards.com for lengthy discussions of this and several other sellers who prey on naive collectors.

I thank you in advance for your time and attention, and hope that my letter is of some help to improve eBay as a wonderful marketplace for collectors of stamps, coins, and postcards.

Sincerely yours,
Daniel Van Dyke
ddaannv on eBay - a top-rated seller of collectibles with >$5,000 in sales in May, 2012.

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Stamps on eBay: USA & worldwide. Lots of Dr. Who, Star Trek & Star Wars comics, too. Do Advanced search for Seller ddaannv and Keyword the country you collect (or leave Keyword blank).

It a US driven phenomenon - take the example of "too big to fail" and many of the telecommunications giant's attempts to purchase another. eBay interferes with commerce in the United States like the government, and has extended this hand's reach to a worldwide marketplace.

The answer to this conundrum is to vehemently demand return of the item for a FULL REFUND. Stipulate something in your listing saying "Satisfaction 100% guaranteed with no questions asked refund." Cut the intentional/unintentional manipulators off at the pass. If you sent the item with tracking, refund them full purchase price with tracking once they provide you a tracking number. Then INSTANTANEOUSLY block the buyer.

I think it really stinks when a buyer fails to pay by Sellers allowed by Ebay correct method which is stated in their sellers terms and conditions. So called Non Paying Buyer then leaves a Negative and the honest seller who has done Nothing wrong gets marked down in ratings.
Ebay gets worse forces Paypal and exchange rates to gain more fees which do not reflect Real Exchange rates.

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Collector of Australia and UK plus too many other bits and pieces. Look for me on Delcampe and Ebay also as Queenslander for my Stamp offers

I cannot see how this would be a problem beyond requiring a payment method beyond PayPal. If you sell on eBay, you have to accept PayPal. They are the same company.

What with their demands concerning sole method of payment (Paypal), refunds policy, tracking demands and above all their charges, just who can afford to sell stamps at reasonable prices on ebay.
This is why other sites, much more seller friendly, such as Bidstart, have been established, and are growing all the time possible because they don't charge any listing charges at all.
I have found that with Bidstart, at least, when you ask them a question you get an answer to your specific needs not just a computer generated general response.
One of these days, maybe, Ebay will wake up and decide either to remove items costs less thatn say $100 from their site, or lower their stupid demands

The search engine optimization exposure of eBay to third party providers like Google TOWERS above the punitive efforts, poor programming, and helter-skelther business management of bidstart.

Only the desperate (or ignorant) seller would endeavor to such a venue.

Any website who changes from stampwants.com to bidstart.com has intrinsically failed to invite my most valued philatelic treasures. I will reserve those only for eBay and public auction.

So I guess you're not excited that Stanley Gibbons bought them?

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Greg - Looking for Goulburn Australia Cancels and Grangemouth Scotland Cancels and Covers
Member of the S.T.A.M.P Club for Slightly Twisted And Mad Philatelists - Motto: "Bring back the lick!"

What is it again that Gibbons do better than any one else in the stamp trade


They are still listing on ebay of course so don't think many will be killed in the stampede to bidstart just yet

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Long interest in stamps from Great Britain. Avid collector always after good pre 1930 lots

Historically, Mr Gibbons has been very good at making poor business decisions and losing money as a result, I see the purchase of BidStart as continuation of that fine tradition

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Looking for revenues and unusual stamps?
Weekly auctions on eBay with over 300 curious new lots every week ... Website: http://www.ibredguy.co.uk/main.php

Mr Gibbons passed away eons ago, do you mean Mssrs Gibbons?

They have had a checkered history, haven't they...there was the 11-minute listing on the stock exchange; the short-lived ownership by an offshore mail-order flower-delivery company...

Bidstart? I think I've looked at it before, when I've seen it mentioned on SB...then I don't find anything I want, and never remember to go back.

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/