Bogus "Illegal" Stamps on Delcampe - with a twist

brcStamps · **Posted:** Wed Jul 07, 2010 05:42:32 am

There is a seller on Delcampe selling all kinds illegal stamps:

http://delcampe.com/seller_sales.php?language=E&nickname=barcik

The twist is that he describes them as being bogus in the title. Does that now make them legal to sell? The stamps were certainly illegally produced, including some from such areas as South Georgia (complete wirh Queen Elizabeth's head), which normally did not fall pray to this racket.

Topical (Thematic) collectors are still flocking to buy these issues, check the feedback of the seller.

iomoon · **Posted:** Wed Jul 07, 2010 08:16:05 am

That seller may have bitten off more than he can chew.

British royalty do not take kindly to having reproductions of themselves being used for financial gain.

Plus they have a rather large wallet and a big police force.

Neglecting the possible influence over Interpol.

brcStamps · **Posted:** Wed Jul 07, 2010 13:38:59 pm

Iomoon, I reported many of the items from Delcampe, including the South Georgia stamps and others with illegal use of the World Wildlife Fund logos and nothing happened, not even a no-reply type email in return.

However, last week I wrote directly to Delcampe, acting on behalf of the Tuvalu Philatelic Bureau and explained that the Tuvalu stamps were illegal bogus issues, and suddenly all of that dealer's items were all marked with "account suspended".

However, a few days later, the suspension was lifted, but all the bogus Tuvalu stamps were no longer available, yet the other countries were NOT affected, and continue to be made available.

During this time, however, I never received ANY response from Delcampe.

fromdownunder · **Posted:** Wed Jul 07, 2010 14:58:30 pm

brcStamps wrote:

Iomoon, I reported many of the items from Delcampe, including the South Georgia stamps and others with illegal use of the World Wildlife Fund logos and nothing happened, not even a no-reply type email in return.

However, last week I wrote directly to Delcampe, acting on behalf of the Tuvalu Philatelic Bureau and explained that the Tuvalu stamps were illegal bogus issues, and suddenly all of that dealer's items were all marked with "account suspended". However, a few days later, the suspension was lifted, but all the bogus Tuvalu stamps were no longer available, yet the other countries were NOT affected, and continue to be made available.

During this time, however, I never received ANY response from Delcampe.

Regarding misuse of the WWF logo, the better people to contact would be the WWF, who wield a very big stick and are very protective of their property.

They even managed to win a case against an American Multi-Million Dollar Corporation for simply using the initials WWF. It was the World Wrestling Federation,and had been around for 20 or so years (now, WWE - World Wrestling Entertainment.

Norm

fromdownunder · **Posted:** Wed Jul 07, 2010 15:12:06 pm

BTW, Mr Delcampe is a member of this Board, so that gives you further options:

You can Board email him personally from this thread:

Collectors: You can help Delcampe Online Auctions
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11768&p=553454&hilit=delcampe#p553454

or alternatively bump that thread, by copying your post to there. After all, Mr Delcampe specifically asked how to help his Auction, and was very appreciative of positive criticism in that longish thread.

Or perhaps do both, probably the best option, while also giving him a link to this thread.

Norm

Norm

brcStamps · **Posted:** Wed Jul 07, 2010 15:52:37 pm

Thanks Norm, I will bump the thread. As for the WWF, I know other collectors who have reported the bogus stamps on Delcampe directly to them. WWF has added this on their stamp section:

Quote:

We have informed for quite some time on our Website about illegal stamps with the WWF Panda Logo. Unfortunately, there are still illegal stamps produced and sold. These illegal issues are neither postally valid stamps, nor are they authorised by WWF International and Groth AG. They are not taken up in the leading stamps catalogues Groth, Domfil, Gibbons, Michel, Scott and Yvert.

Our advice is, that collectors should not purchase these illegal issues. They are not worth more then the paper they are printed on. We are working together the UPU (Union Postale) and with WWF International to publish a press release that will be sent to all Philatelic Newspapers.
Link: http://www.wwfstamp.com/oxid.php/sid/x/ ... 658/lang/1

Bogus issues have also been reported to Rotary International and the International Olympic Committee.

Brian

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Wed Jul 07, 2010 16:10:37 pm

brcStamps wrote:

Iomoon, I reported many of the items from Delcampe, including the South Georgia stamps and others with illegal use of the World Wildlife Fund logos and nothing happened, not even a no-reply type email in return.

However, last week I wrote directly to Delcampe, acting on behalf of the Tuvalu Philatelic Bureau and explained that the Tuvalu stamps were illegal bogus issues, and suddenly all of that dealer's items were all marked with "account suspended".

However, a few days later, the suspension was lifted, but all the bogus Tuvalu stamps were no longer available, yet the other countries were NOT affected, and continue to be made available.

It seems to be a matter of policy compliance...if a formal complaint (ie. acting in an official capacity as a gov't rep, rather than just a 'concerned collector') is received, action will be taken. But then once the seller has eliminated the detail that created the complaint, on the face of it all is good.

Thus does something official need to come from every stamp-issuer concerned? Do they even have internet access in South Georgia so that they could be made aware of the situation? (:wink:) What about places that are not even real, ie. the Russian 'republics' that issue rubbish wallpaper. Would the complaint have to come from Russia or Georgia or whichever country the purported territory lies within?

Granted, its in Delcampe's interests to have as many sellers as they can, to attract buyers and earn sales commissions. Taking a heavy-handed approach and saying "we'll ban anyone who lists an illegal" could catch innocent people in the net who post up 1 or a few illegals not knowing their status. On the other hand, if this seller has a large volume of them, from a range of countries/'countries' and themes, he must know what he's doing.

brcStamps · **Posted:** Wed Jul 07, 2010 16:33:25 pm

Quote:

On the other hand, if this seller has a large volume of them, from a range of countries/'countries' and themes, he must know what he's doing.

Absolutely. And that means Delcampe is also profiting on the sale of illegal goods, some with stolen logos.

I can't speak for the either countries, but in the eyes of the Tuvalu government these are stolen goods, just like pirated software, designer clothing or any items that have legal copyrights.

As for South Georgia, I would assume it would be the British Government or the Crown Agents who would handle the task of investigating.

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Wed Jul 07, 2010 16:48:40 pm

brcStamps wrote:

Quote:

On the other hand, if this seller has a large volume of them, from a range of countries/'countries' and themes, he must know what he's doing.

I can't speak for the either countries, but in the eyes of the Tuvalu government these are stolen goods, just like pirated software, designer clothing or any items that have legal copyrights.

The IOC for one has had a lot of press the last few years regarding its licensing of the Olympic Rings symbol. IIRC it requires countries to submit their proposed stamp designs to IOC HQ for approval.

And its not only stamps they go after, the IOC takes copyright protection very seriously in the production of any kind of product:

Quote:

Olympic rings stamped on ecstasy tablets in Vancouver bust
Thursday, December 10, 2009, http://www.cbc.ca

Police answering a 911 call about a home invasion in East Vancouver Wednesday found no break-in suspects when they arrived but did find 107,000 ecstasy tablets, some imprinted with the Olympic rings.

Some of the tablets were stamped with peace signs and some with the Olympic rings.

Vancouver's Olympic organizing committee has vigorously pursued unlicensed use of the Olympic rings symbol in the past and a spokesman said it was aware of the Vancouver police seizure.

"This illustrates that there are and will be unscrupulous uses of the Olympic marks," said Bill Cooper, VANOC's director of commercial rights management. "Like the Vancouver Police, we will continue to be diligent in our surveillance and rigorous followup."

admin · **Posted:** Wed Jul 07, 2010 19:46:13 pm

brcStamps wrote:

As for South Georgia, I would assume it would be the British Government or the Crown Agents who would handle the task of investigating.

These days it is Pobjoy Mint in London.

A very long term friend of mine runs the stamp operation .. I'll pass this on to him, for what action he deems fit.

Member here Sebastian Delcampe will take action too I feel almost sure, if he is personally aware of this con man.

Glen

gavin-h · **Posted:** Wed Jul 07, 2010 22:41:09 pm

MODERATOR COMMENT:

I have sent Seb Delcampe a Board Email with a link to this thread.

Hopefully, he will respond in due course...

Gavin

brcStamps · **Posted:** Thu Jul 08, 2010 04:20:26 am

Here is a list some of countries that Barcik is selling illegal stamps with their names inscribed (there may be others). I do not include the Russian regions as they are not stamp issuing authorities and I am not sure what status these would fall under. Those who collect from these areas below may be interested in contacting the authorities.

Afghanistan
Bahrain
Belize
Benin
Brunei
Chad
Comoro Islands
Congo (Democratic)
Dijibouti
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Jordan
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Malawi
Mozambique
Palestinian Authority
Rwanda
Sao Tome & Princip
South Georgia
South Shetland
Turkmenistan
Tuvalu ** Seem to have been pulled off
Zimbabwe

Some of these countries have not usually victims of the illegal trade.

It seems that the illegal Olympic stamps are no longer listed.

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Thu Jul 08, 2010 04:32:37 am

Looking at that list, its a bit wishful thinking to expect a lot of those countries to take any action to protect their name, given that 1) they're government is poorly staffed and/or 2) the government is badly mismanaged and/or 3) they're members of the group IGPC or similar contractors have recruited, which means they pretty much sold away the rights to their name and don't seem to pay much attention to what their name gets put on.

Hmm, maybe dropping a note to these countries pointing out that there's tonnes of material floating around for which a royalty cheque didn't come through the mailslot to them will spur them into action. :roll:

norvic · **Posted:** Thu Jul 08, 2010 04:49:17 am

brcStamps wrote:

Here is a list some of countries that Barcik is selling illegal stamps with their names inscribed (there may be others). I do not include the Russian regions as they are not stamp issuing authorities and I am not sure what status these would fall under.

The Russian semi-autonomous regions are part of the Russian Federation, which provides the postal service. As such these bogus labels are also wrong 'uns and are used money-laundering, drug dealing and terrorism in just the same way as those bearing the names of stamp-issuing countries.

brcStamps · **Posted:** Thu Jul 08, 2010 04:53:57 am

Quote:

they're members of the group IGPC

Actually IGPC control some (not all) of the new Tuvalu stamp issues, and from corresponding with them, they were very concerned and investigating the illegal issues of Tuvalu (and I assume other countries they represent). Of course IGPC are known to put out topical issues that are rather expensive and have subjects with little or no relation to the issuing countries - very similar in subjects and looks to the illegal stamps.

Many collectors may not like these agency issues, but they are in fact legally issued by the (often poor) countries and earn them revenue - topical collectors are buying them. Illegal stamps are a cut in their profits, and gains to the sellers, producers and the auction house.

So dropping a note to the actual philatelic agencies for the countries would be the best bet.

I was surprised, however, to see illegal issues from Brunei and Jordan.

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Thu Jul 08, 2010 05:00:30 am

brcStamps wrote:

I was surprised, however, to see illegal issues from Brunei and Jordan.

Oman had a problem with illegals in the 1970s-80s, IIRC real issues are inscribed "Sultanate of Oman" whilst the bogus items said "Kingdom of Oman" or just "Oman". There might have been a few Qatar illegals too. The rest of the Middle East I thought had remained untarnished (leaving aside the UAE and Yemen), so I'm surprised to see Kuwait, Jordan, Bahrain all on there. And yes, Brunei and South Georgia show the printers are expanding their network, becoming more daring?

brcStamps · **Posted:** Thu Jul 08, 2010 05:17:46 am

Yes I was also surprised about Kuwait - here is one of the sheets:

brcStamps · **Posted:** Thu Jul 08, 2010 05:23:36 am

norvic wrote:

As such these bogus labels are also wrong 'uns and are used money-laundering, drug dealing and terrorism in just the same way as those bearing the names of stamp-issuing countries.

Hmm...interesting in the sellers feedback, a large amount of the "happy" winners have bought large multiples of the stamps...

iomoon · **Posted:** Thu Jul 08, 2010 09:09:56 am

I have to admit I'm sometimes bad and buy illegals to put on my web site, where they are identified as such by "issued by".

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Thu Jul 08, 2010 14:30:48 pm

brcStamps wrote:

Yes I was also surprised about Kuwait - here is one of the sheets:

Atrocious design...

Not to mention a Muslim country would never issue something with a background like that, even if the stamps are covering most of it. :oops:

And "butterflys"? They're skimping on paying not only on graphic designers but also proofreaders. :roll:

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Thu Jul 08, 2010 14:34:39 pm

iomoon wrote:

I have to admit I'm sometimes bad and buy illegals to put on my web site, where they are identified as such by "issued by".

I wouldn't say that's bad at all...that's akin to the FBI's archive of counterfeit banknotes, or the CDC's stockpile of ebola and anthrax...have to have a bit of the evil on-hand to combat it.

The seller thinks "another happy customer" when you buy from them, and then bang, it turns around and bites them. But how many thematic collectors, or even non-collectors who see something that looks 'pretty' or that they think their kids etc will like, don't bother to research whether the item is real, or don't mind/don't care if its illegal...quantity over quality then...

brcStamps · **Posted:** Thu Jul 08, 2010 16:31:04 pm

Quote:

And "butterflys"? They're skimping on paying not only on graphic designers but also proofreaders

No Kidding! And delcampe is still collecting their share.

jcs137 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 01:37:29 am

As soon as I became aware of the 'bogus' stamps of South Georgia and Falkland Islands Dependencies (which was in mid-May), I contacted Delcampe and made them aware of this.

They confirmed that they would suspend seller which they did and the so called stamps were removed.

In addition, I contacted the WWF main stamp marketer and he also complained with the results that all of the WWF bogus stamps were also removed by the seller.

At the end of the day, one can only re-act when one becomes aware of a problem and there will always be somebody without scruples who will issue this bogus material and hope that people are stupid enough to purchase it.

John Smith of Pobjoy Mint

jcs137 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 01:45:44 am

As an aside there have also been bogus South Georgia coins and in that case, I have involved the Surrey Police Fraud Division who are investigating.

All recent genuine stamps from Falklands and South Georgia can be viewed on the Falkland Islands Post Office website http://www.falklandstamps.com and coins can be viewed on the Pobjoy Mint website http://www.pobjoy.com.

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 01:50:41 am

jcs137 wrote:

At the end of the day, one can only re-act when one becomes aware of a problem and there will always be somebody without scruples who will issue this bogus material and hope that people are stupid enough to purchase it. John Smith of Pobjoy Mint

Another aspect of the matter of illegals/bogus issues is the potential damage to the hobby. Some sellers of this material sell it for a dollar or two, others put inflated and rather ridiculous prices on it. How will someone, or their family if its passed on, feel when they decide to sell, and a dealer tells them "sorry these are not real stamps and the market is flooded with them and they're only worth 10 cents each to me"...or worse (or maybe what the collector interprets what they hear as) "these are worthless/fake".

And then there's the overpriced Franklin Mint-type products...souvenir folders or albums sold for 3 or 4 figure sums, that sell now, 20 years later, for 10-20% of original cost. Those you could say are just as 'bad' for the hobby, in some ways even more so as its legitimate issues being sold. Buyers might feel they're being 'ripped-off' or 'over-charged' for the material. The packaging such things are sold in doesn't justify the price...

Global Administrator · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 01:56:35 am

jcs137 wrote:

As soon as I became aware of the 'bogus' stamps of South Georgia and Falkland Islands Dependencies (which was in mid-May), I contacted Delcampe and made them aware of this.

They confirmed that they would suspend seller which they did and the so called stamps were removed.

In addition, I contacted the WWF main stamp marketer and he also complained with the results that all of the WWF bogus stamps were also removed by the seller.

At the end of the day, one can only re-act when one becomes aware of a problem and there will always be somebody without scruples who will issue this bogus material and hope that people are stupid enough to purchase it.

John Smith of Pobjoy Mint

Great to hear you are long ago onto these spivs John.

Was the seller you had banned different to the current one?

Glen

jcs137 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 02:00:35 am

The seller of the stamps was the same as mentioned before.

As far as the coins are concerned, we know who made them but just trying to get evidence so that the proper actions can be taken.

Global Administrator · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 02:13:40 am

Ha! Barcik is now selling them as "bogus".

http://stamps.delcampe.com/page/item/id,69298402,var,South-Georgia-2009-Ships-block-bogus,language,E.html

brcStamps · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 02:25:08 am

Quote:

Barcik is now selling them as "bogus".

He always was selling them that way - that was the "twist" I said in the original post.

jcs137 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 02:29:31 am

Thank you - I'll contact Delcampe again and ask that they be removed again and see what happens.

brcStamps · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 02:35:56 am

jcs137 wrote:

They confirmed that they would suspend seller which they did and the so called stamps were removed.

John, I am glad to see you posting on this board.

Unfortunately the seller Barcik has been "unsuspended" and is back selling the bogus stamps, including South Georgia.

I had not realized that you had contacted Delcampe in May - when I saw that Barcik was temporarily suspended, I thought that it may have been related to my email to Delcampe in regards to bogus Tuvalu stamps. I represent the Tuvalu Philatelic Bureau on the internet.

Fortunately, the Tuvalu stamps have not reappeared yet.

jcs137 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 02:45:17 am

I have now contacted Delcampe and pointed out that the use of the Royal Effigy may only be done with permission and unless the South Georgia are removed for ever, I will alert the regulatory authorities in the UK including Lord Chamberlain's Office.

I think if you just report the stamps, then the report may be ignored, but I have the name of a senior person in Delcampe who appears to take some interest.

The more of us who complain the better it is.

Global Administrator · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 02:57:46 am

Sebastian Delcampe who runs the outfit, is an active member here -

http://www.stampboards.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2037

brcStamps · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 04:55:10 am

Quote:

And "butterflys"? They're skimping on paying not only on graphic designers but also proofreaders.

On the Brunei issue they decided to make it singular, despite showing two butterflies. :lol:

jugoslavija_post · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 05:02:42 am

Global Administrator wrote:

Sebastian Delcampe who runs the outfit, is an active member here -

http://www.stampboards.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2037

Why does it have a dash where it says last visited?

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 05:07:54 am

jcs137 wrote:

I have now contacted Delcampe and pointed out that the use of the Royal Effigy may only be done with permission and unless the South Georgia are removed for ever, I will alert the regulatory authorities in the UK including Lord Chamberlain's Office.

And their Royal Effigy makes HM look atrocious, that should be grounds for treason right there.

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 05:14:42 am

brcStamps wrote:

On the Brunei issue they decided to make it singular, despite showing two butterflies. :lol:

Almost looks like something done on a home computer and printer...the wishy-washy colours, the poor quality design. This is on the level of the famous eBayer atdinvest in Florida, producing wallpaper that was produced using scans of real stamps.

The maker here is either small-scale or just lazy, they haven't perforated the stamps. The South Georgia is a little better, so maybe the seller has various sources?

Whoever makes this stuff, they obviously know something about stamps though, in the Brunei they've included details like the Sultan's image, and they got the currency. So they are at least looking at a catalogue or some real stamps as models.

brcStamps · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 14:40:58 pm

Funny how the seller still gets all those multiple-buyer positive feedbacks...

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 16:27:48 pm

brcStamps wrote:

Funny how the seller still gets all those multiple-buyer positive feedbacks...

The "nice" way of putting it:
"Collect whatever you like"
"Stamp collecting is for fun, not profit"

The "blunter" way:
"A fool and his money are soon parted"
P.T. Barnum's "There's one born every minute"

Maybe people don't read a stamp catalogue, or have a checklist of issues to work from. They go to Delcampe, type the name of the thematic they want in the search box, and buy whatever comes up that they think looks nice. They see one of these pieces and think "Oh, that's colourful; it's from faraway/exotic Kuwait/South Georgia/somewhere-I've-never-heard-of; and its only $2, sure I'll take it".

How many people have for decades bought full sheets of new issues at the post office, tucking them away as an 'investment'? Everyone makes poor decisions sometimes out of naivety or lack of knowledge.

fromdownunder · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 17:02:46 pm

I need to make a point that AFAIK has not yet been made on this thread. There is nothing illegal about selling cinderella stamps unless there is a breach of copyright, AS LONG AS THEY ARE DEFINED AS SUCH.

I could print up a set of "Upper Yickitah" emissions, which would be perforated bits of paper tomorow, describe them as such, and that the country does not exist, put pretty pictures of endangered species on them, NOT use the WWF logo, and it would all be perfectly legal, and legitimate.

I could also describe them as "rare, only 10 copies exist" which also might be true, and am still not breaking any law anywhere. It is ONLY when copyright is breached, that legal action and banning becomes a reality (e.g., including the WWF logo without paying royalties to the WWF).

Hutt River Province in Western Australia has been producing "stamps" for 30 years without any action, and these things are quite collectable, among a small group of people who like even pretend locals, which are not valid for anything, anywhere.

Norm

jcs137 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 19:03:37 pm

I agree that there is nothing wrong with offering Cinderellas but the point of this thread is that someone is deliberately producing product that purports to be something it isn't in order to make financial gain. The fact that it is marked as bogus, doesn't excuse the action and if we were looking at Watches, Music, Clothing etc there would be no question that a fake is a fake.

It's very difficult to police this stuff especially when the seller is based in the Ukraine.

norvic · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 19:08:54 pm

Norm, you're right, as far as you go.

But if you produce your stamps/labels in the style of real stamps, in a range of denominations, maybe the word postage, and especially if they bear the name of of a real place stamp issuing or otherwise - Yakutia, Eritrea, Victoria, Bendigo - then that might come under the category of 'passing off', ie passing them off as real postage stamps and taking advantage of the ignorance of the buyer.

And let's face it, many of the buyers are not stamp collectors: they are collectors of memorabilia, Michael Jackson, Elvis, Marilyin, dinosaurs, fast cars, butterflies. They collect anything and everything to do with their subject and these stamps are attractive to them. But that doesn't make them right. The original producer is pushing them through wholesale channels to stamp dealers as 'stamps', 'local stamps', 'unauthorised stamps', or whatever, but still fundamentally as stamps and it is that which is harming the hobby and funding organised crime.

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 19:14:43 pm

jcs137 wrote:

I agree that there is nothing wrong with offering Cinderellas but the point of this thread is that someone is deliberately producing product that purports to be something it isn't in order to make financial gain. The fact that it is marked as bogus, doesn't excuse the action and if we were looking at Watches, Music, Clothing etc there would be no question that a fake is a fake.

The fact this seller keeps operating must be the same loophole that allows people to set up a table on a sidewalk and quite openly offer "Rolex" watches for $20 and the police don't do anything about it. :roll:

Of course fromdownunder could print up labels at home reading Upper Yickitah or Kingdom of Norm or whatever, and there's no real problem with that because the place does not exist.

If you listed them for sale and clearly stated they were Cinderellas or labels, that's truth in advertising.

If you listed them and simply said "here are some stamps from Upper Yickitah" without stating the country is made up, well its cavaet emptor if someone buys them, its their responsibility to know what they're buying.

If you said "from the small African republic of Upper Yickitah" or some similar suggestion as to where the place is, when it isn't, then that's misrepresentation.

This Delcampe seller is selling, apparently knowingly so, illegal stamps which have 'stolen' the name of a country. If you can be busted for using the logo of the WWF or IOC, shouldn't using a country's name be an even greater breach?

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 19:23:35 pm

norvic wrote:

'stamps', 'local stamps', 'unauthorised stamps', or whatever, but still fundamentally as stamps

In philatelic circles (at least),

stamp = issued for a country/territory -- an authorized piece of revenue paper
local stamp = issued for a smaller area (state, town) -- also an authorized piece of revenue paper, just more limited geographic scope
unauthorised stamp = well the first word there says it all...the authority who's name appears on the stamp did not give their OK to it, so it shouldn't have been printed.

If you tried to sell these items with the 3rd definition in your description, well the buyer should realize it's an illegal product. Everyone knows "unauthorised Internet download" or "unauthorised DVD" = pirating.

Not to excuse the role of the seller, but I think someone buying something described as #3 is also to blame. If it came to awarding damages, I'd say #1, #2 -- buyer was conned. But #3 -- buyer's own fault.

norvic · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 19:24:37 pm

aethelwulf wrote:

This Delcampe seller is selling, apparently knowingly so, illegal stamps which have 'stolen' the name of a country. If you can be busted for using the logo of the WWF or IOC, shouldn't using a country's name be an even greater breach?

Yes - though notice how the countries chosen are those which one might consider to be the weakest. If Australia was chosen, then maybe action would be quicker.

Frank E Ring · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 19:44:38 pm

brcStamps wrote:

I can't speak for the either countries, but in the eyes of the Tuvalu government these are stolen goods, just like pirated software, designer clothing or any items that have legal copyrights.

Contact the proper authorities in the EU and explain that these are pirated goods. Once bogus stamps like these get on the customs' lists over pirated goods, holders of said goods are routinely fined EUR 10.000.

And that's also worth keeping in mind if you travel to an EU country with a fake wristwatch picked up in a street market somewhere nice and warm.

brcStamps · **Posted:** Sat Jul 10, 2010 02:36:19 am

Quote:

Contact the proper authorities in the EU and explain that these are pirated goods.

Thanks for that tip - I will pass it on to the Attorney General of Tuvalu.

brcStamps · **Posted:** Tue Jul 13, 2010 00:14:04 am

It seems the South Georgia and South Sandwich bogus issues are no longer available as of this morning (Vancouver time). There were available yesterday.

However, most other countries are still available and many WWF issues.

Global Administrator · **Posted:** Tue Jul 13, 2010 02:03:40 am

Good to see they have acted.

A shame they did not delete the lot detail entirely as ebay does.

http://stamps.delcampe.com/page/item/id,69298402,var,South-Georgia-2009-Ships-block-bogus,language,E.html

I saw the "Exporter" had a piece on your report re the Tuvalu fakes this month .. and also a photo of John - jcs137 - at the the Pobjoy mint stamp at London 2010.

revenuecollector · **Posted:** Wed Jul 14, 2010 04:09:44 am

What boggles my mind is why, knowing full well that this seller is committing fraud on a wholesale basis, is Delcampe allowing this seller to continue at all?

Forcing the seller to remove the few listings that they have received complaints for, but letting them continue to sell all the other fakes, is a tiny slap on the wrist.

How many legitimate complaints will it take for Delcampe to shut this seller down? It's abundantly clear what the seller is doing, but apparently Delcampe can't see it, or doesn't care, as they benefit financially from allowing the seller to continue (in the same way that eBay does nothing about the proliferation of Chinese numismatic fakery -- it pads their bottom line).

In my opinion, by allowing the seller to continue, Delcampe is complicit in this fraud.


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