Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

After reading a suggestion by Muruk on another thread -

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=37017&p=2746193#p2746193

I thought it might be a good idea to begin a "conga" for new members looking for information and advice regarding Stamp Collections and/or Accumulations that have come to them.

The first thing I thought of to add is; that it is far better to view the collection as the hobby it was. A pleasant pastime, which afforded relaxation and escape.

Although there are collections, and individual stamps for that matter, which are worth money; the majority of these will be either, a) be included in the list of assets, or b) have good documentation regarding the collection(s).

Another clue to how 'serious' the collection might be is if there are catalogues and/or other reference material included with the collection.

Great-aunt Jeannie's ETA Peanut Butter, or Ampol, album from the 1960s era (here in Australia) may contain a surprise or two; but it is more likely to hold very common, inexpensive, stamps that she cadged off family and friends - or from the penny packet material which was priced to suit a child's pocket-money budget.

The only other piece of information I can add here is on the condition of the stamps.

If the albums/stockbooks/pages/whatever have been stored in a cupboard for the past 10-20 years: they might smell "musty", the pages might have brown spots on them, or "toning" around the stamps.

Aunt Jeannie might have used sticky tape - or glue - instead of hinges and there are brown marks where the glue has come through to the front of the stamp; some of the stamps might be torn, or the perforations on the sides of the stamps might be missing.

All of the above devalue a collection.

Hopefully other members will add advice (and correct me if I'm wrong!) which can be useful for newcomers .... after all, we were all beginners once

==============

Admin note - for all new collectors curious about the value of their stamps, adding PHOTOS of some of them here is a huge step toward assistance.

Adding photos to this board is a CINCH - easy tutorial is here -

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=284

You can add a few test images there as well! Good luck.

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FORESTS OLD, PASTURES NEW
(An expert is one who knows more and more, about less and less, until they know absolutely everything about nothing at all)

When it comes to inherited collections, one really should consult a tax accountant/attorney in their respective region.

Stamp collections may incur a tax penalty when selling them or inheriting them usually of the capital gains type. I know here in Canada, capital gains is attached to each individual stamp, however you are most likely only paying capital gains tax on stamps valued over $5,000. Therefore most collections will be exempt. However for the very serious collector, you need to look into this with a appropriate professional.

With most stamp collections avoid tax consultants & attorneys if possible!
( Value it low as possible for probate - a nominal £1000 !)

If it is a decent collection line up some fellow collector as philatelic executor and make suitable provision in a will.

Several years ago I promised a friend that when the time came I'd help with her husband's stamp collection.

Last summer I drove 3,500 miles round trip Aberdeen Scotland to Cadiz Spain and collected 1/3 tonne of albums stockbooks & covers.

He had boasted that his "collection was worth more than the house" Sadly I can say he had spent more on his collection than on his house!

Disposing for the widow is proving a major headache! The sheer quantity is a nightmare ( he was not a collector he was an accumulator with standing new issue orders at 15 -20 Bureaux and the conditions of several winters on the Spanish Atlantic coast have not been kind.

Storage and safe keeping is vital and this was not. Musty spotty and foxed was everywhere.

Then the quantity means negotiating with dealers!
Modern unmounted mint generally fetches about 1/5 catalogue which is often about 60% face value or less . Modern GB in Quantity, British dealers just don't seem to want to know- " Take it away and use it for postage! " is typical response . GB Royal Mail first day covers which cost £1.50-£2.50 when new the offer is about 10p each!

I have about 10 years worth of postage !

Fortunately there is ebay ! I Know that many of you, dear readers, despise ebay.
BUT (and it is a big BUT !) for the collector with unusual items it opens a world wide market and many little gems do find as fair market price when recognised by a couple of genuine collectors trawling the web. I know some things go cheap, but I have had many pleasant surprises and in 3000 trades only a handful have not worked or been lost in transit.

Almost year down the line I have managed to move about 30% of the collection, some 70% still to shift
After expenses the widow has had about £8,000 which is a far cry from the £100,000+ the owner was boasting about .


On the other hand I also had the task of assisting another lady with Uncle's one volume all world Printed page Album ( A dealer had offered her a miserable £200!! )
It was all pre 1940 and after 3 years we had sold the contents for £7,500 that was fun and a pleasure !

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whatever it is -------it's better than a poke in eye with a wet umbrella !

If you have inherited a collection that looks like this:



It is most likely a hobby collection. An investment collection would more likely be found in secure storage somewhere.

These collections usually comprise relatively inexpensive stamps in mixed condition.

The value in these collections is in the enjoyment they gave to the collector. Gathering, studying, sorting, storing, viewing, sharing.

Do not expect such a collection to be worth a lot of money.

BUT

New discoveries are still being made in old collections. Printing varieties, scarce watermarks, perforation gauges or cancels. But finding these takes study and diligent examination. They don't generally jump out at you screaming "here I am". They hide, and have to be sought out. A $1,000 stamp can look just like a 10¢ one until the watermark is checked, or the perforations measured.

Identifying the gems is not something a member of a bulletin board can provide, on the spot, from a few scans. We can give an overview, but that's about all ... unless there is something really obvious.

If you have lots of time and inclination, borrow a catalogue from your local library and check the collection for yourself. Ask on here about things you don't understand as you come across them.

If you don't have time and just want a quick return, find a dealer or auctioneer and let them dispose of the collection for you.

Alternatively, it would be a great thing to use such a collection as a kickstarter and continue to build it. This will also build the experience to recognise the scarce and the valuable.

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A man might as well marry ... if he finds a good wife he will be happy ... if not, he will become a philosopher.
Collecting Greater New Guinea & Macropods (Kangaroos & Wallabies).

To a non-collector, someone who doesn't know anything about stamps, everything can look 'foreign', 'unusual', 'maybe valuable'.

How many stamps from GB, Canada, Oz states from the Queen Victoria-era were printed in the millions, and still sell today for pennies? To a non-collector though, they'll see QV's image on the stamp and think "wow, that stamp is over 100 years old, it must be valuable".

Doing a bit of homework with a catalogue will answer a lot of questions. If the stamp is from, ie., Turkey or Eastern Europe and thus doesn't have inscriptions in the Latin alphabet, well that could throw someone for a loop and they won't know what country it is, so there's something to ask a question about.

Some countries can be identified by a quick google--Sverige, Norge, Espana.

People should keep in mind "age does not make value". So those 1920s Azerbaijan stamps aren't valuable. And those early Buenos Aires are probably reprints worth $2.

Don't be 'fooled', 'tempted', 'misled' by auction catalogues. An auction has a red 2 cent USA stamp showing Washington estimated at $1,000, and you find a stamp that looks the same to the untrained eye in your inherited album. Do you have the "valuable" one? Possibly, probably not, but that's something to investigate.

Rarity makes stamps valuable. If a variation of a design is rare, then chances are the one you find won't be the rare variety. People shouldn't get their hopes up too quickly. If you find a lotto ticket on the ground that someone has dropped, what is the chance its worth big dosh, v. the chance it turns out to not be a winner?

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

( Value it low as possible for probate - a nominal £1000 !)

This could be exactly the WRONG advice, depending on the estate tax laws. In some cases, you want to value it as HIGH as possible, without committing fraud. Here's why:

Let's say the first $500,000 of your estate is tax-exempt. The house, the contents, the automobiles, everything including the stamps adds up to $300,000. Once they appear in the estate, with some exceptions, they have a "zero" basis, or for some assets, a "fair market" basis.

Eventually, you are taxed on the difference between the price you receive and the item's basis. So if you have plenty of wiggle room in the exemption, and you pay no estate tax whether the collection is valued at £1000 or £10000, you choose the latter, higher figure, because it saves you a considerable amount of capital gains tax down the line.

This is an oversimplified explanation, but I hope you see the point; and yes, by all means, consult with a tax attorney, or a pro-bono tax preparing group, or even the IRS, if it's off-season (in October, they have little or nothing to do).

Investigate ALL the possibilities and the taxable outcome(s).

But if you value absurdly high, you are guilty of fraud; it's a fine line you have to walk.

Finally, if your province/state and/or city levy an inheritance tax, there may be no exemptions built into their calculations, so the strategy that saves you money at the Federal level costs you money at the local level.

And, in the U.S., in general, if your personal assets are held in a trust, they do not pass through probate, which also means the details are not a public record which any passed-over relations can study, then gloat, fume, weep, or threaten.

Undervaluing a stamp collection for the purposes of tax or estate actually can be and is considered fraud. I know that the IRS (US), IRS (UK), CRA (CAN) all take a VERY dim view on that (don't know the designations for AUS or NZ sorry but I am fairly sure they have a similar view. You need to consult with a professional in this regards.

My field is accounting and income tax and have been in it for well over 15 years. For Canada you really don't have much to worry about UNLESS you have a stamp that is valued over $5,000. Then you have a capital gains issue on the sale of the stamp, and even then only for the value that is over $5,000. Each stamp is taken as an individual piece for capital gains, not the collection as a whole. That being the case that is Canada, I have no idea how it will work in the US, UK, AUS, NZ, etc.

So for my fellow Canucks out there, don't be afraid to value your collection within reason at fair market value, BUT, always consult a tax lawyer and/or accountant.

Ideally, the previous owner will have taken the time to consider the monetary value of the collection, as was discussed on this thread last year;

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26686

While the major focus of this thread will probably be on inherited stamp collections, much of the information will also ring true for other things - coins, cards, comic-books, etc.

And also aspects of philately which don't necessarily involve just stamps.

Grandad may have collected postmarks - an aspect which was considered here recently;

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=36909

Taking a collection like the above example to a stamp dealer for valuation isn't going to get you very far, because the dealer will most likely only see the stamps - as was illustrated.

Here is a classic example of a pair of relatively valuable stamps



To someone who collects postmarks, however, the stamps are not as important as the cancellation.

Inheriting a collection (any collection), particularly if you have no knowledge of the field, is a double-edged sword.

If there are no instructions, a good general rule-of-thumb would be to assess the condition and scope of the collection. A half-tonne of loose stamps and ephemera in boxes, envelopes, and other assorted receptacles will suggest to most that Uncle was a hoarder.

One, or more, Albums neatly arranged and well notated are indicative of someone who took their collecting seriously - even if he only collected "Upper Bongo-Bongo Land" (and there's nothing wrong with that!) - with or without spending a lot of money on the stamps themselves.

For 90% of stamp collectors, I would suggest that it is (was) first and foremost a hobby, and as such the collection should be appreciated for what it is.

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FORESTS OLD, PASTURES NEW
(An expert is one who knows more and more, about less and less, until they know absolutely everything about nothing at all)

My predecessor's due to the hardships and loss they suffered through WWI, the Halifax explossion, WWII and my father becoming a young widower with four children, where frugal and could never justify the cost of literature or keeping a mint stamp that they wouldn't use for postage.

My Grandmother was an avid collector and being a teacher usually walked away from school with a hoard of stamps collected for a stamp drive, she never had a formal album. My father was also an avid collector of, Canada, U.S., and put together a very impressive collection of Scouts on Stamps, but never catologued or invested in literature except for a 76 Scott worldwide and the occasional Linn's. They collected visually with no concern of quality or variety other than picture on the stamp or on the cover.

This is a scan of a page from my father's CDN.



A dollar or two on a good day on ebay.

These are a sample of what was hidden in bulk unmarked envelopes and glassines.







With a minimal investment I have learned what is meant by Fancy, Square circle, ring, precanceled and town cancels, identified a 35VIII and three mint 2 cents with offset printing increasing the value to hundreds.



My predecessor's did and expanding my knowledge does as well. The hidden some times makes you the collector if you choose to pick it up. I still need to be educated to expand on what I am still finding.

Other than the obvious no auction house or dealer would have sorted through the 24 banker boxes of used junk and would have valued the collection that was in the albums and the rest would have been sold as a junk lot.

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Please learn me.

And this is where errors are made on one side, and a possible windfall on the other as I found out this weekend. (Sorry to go off topic).

Could everyone with specific advice about estate and tax laws etc please preface what they say by the country it applies to!?

Much of what was written above in numerous posts has nothing to do with Australian law and tax.

Much "financial advice" should come with the proviso that it's NOT actually financial advice - there are laws in many countries about that as well including Australia.



Now:

My personal advice regarding being handed down a collection is never to assume there is nothing of value even in what many would consider a "hobby collection".

There are often gems to be discovered and that's the only catch. It will take time and knowledge to find them.


Even reprints are worth money and none of us really know's just how much of a windfall the new owner might be happy with. A small collection that's worth $1,000 might be a lifesaver to someone, but that's not a big amount of unexpected money to some.

The image Muruk used is from an album that the member said was about 1,000 pages in size. I'd pay $1 for every page that looked like that! - so that collection could easily be worth $1,000!

That's not worthless.

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Greg - Looking for Goulburn Australia Cancels and Grangemouth Scotland Cancels and Covers
Member of the S.T.A.M.P Club for Slightly Twisted And Mad Philatelists - Motto: "Bring back the lick!"

I think it's worthwhile to repeat this post of mine from that thread -


Also, anyone inheriting a collection should check out this web site -

http://www.inheritedstampcollection.com/

This is the online version of Charles F.Meyers' book
"I Inherited a Stamp Collection, Now What?"

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Jay Carrigan
http://www.jaypex.com

Jay, the book you mentioned is great for the US side of the issue being discussed. However as we have all seen, law over inheritance differ from country to country and even state/province to state/province.

Looks like a great thread so far, and I'll make a small contribution to that.

"Old" Stamps

In this hobby, just because something is old, does not necessarily make it valuable. Many non collectors assume that because a stamp is 50, 60 or 80 years old that it is rare.

Everyone will have different definitions of what an 'old' stamp may be.

However the truth is, that a long time ago, sending letters was a lot more popular than what it is today. Hence meaning there are many millions of letter rate stamps, which are worth cents each, even in bundles of 100.

Also remeber that if you find stamps attached to old documents, invoices, postcards, envelopes etc DO NOT CUT THEM OFF ... Some stamps are worth 10c each as an off paper stamps, yet can be worth 100's of dollars on a cover.

A badly damaged 25c Rice stamp on cover mailed to India in the 1970's sold for $250 on eBay last year.

That exact stamp, in that condition off cover would be worth nothing.

So don't snip any stamps.

The best way to gain free advice on actual market value of stamps you know nothing about is to ask on Stampboards, and post up some pictures using Photobucket.com.

Also remember that a stamp on an album page with a value indicated next to it does not necessarily mean anything.

Any stamps with a catalogue value of £1 or $1 etc aren't really worth anything -- It is simply a dealer handling fee. Catalogue values will often relate to well centred stamps in good condition with nice postmarks.

If you have 1000 stamps each with a catalogue value of £1 each, you don't have £1000 worth of stamps.

As has been mentioned about, little things can equal big value with stamps. Postmarks, perforations and watermarks etc all need to be examined.

mcgooley:

I like the idea of your thread, and have a proposal to address the realities of Aunt Jeannie's collection. It's your thread, so tell me if this has any value to the discussion.

You've had a lot of good discussion on collections of worth. I'd like to discuss the other end of the rainbow.
So:
Picked up another "box" this weekend and in the bottom of the box was this beauty shown below (didn't even know it was there until I got home). Pro rated out, it maybe cost 50¢.

At one time or another we've all seen or been offered "Aunt Jeannie's collection"

What I intend to do is to break it down country by country, a good soak & press, then separate into collectable (to the lowest standard) or non-collectable (really not even close collectable). make note of any that catalog over $1, and looking for any perf / watermark varieties really try to get the most out of it.
Then tabulate out the findings and share the results.

Maybe it will help newcomers moderate their expectations on grandpa's boyhood collection or maybe it will make it worse by showing there could always be a nugget in that pile of mud

4 of 64 pages





Anyway, let me know what you think.
Thanks & my best to everyone,
pat

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"I don't have a lot - But I like what I got"

There are two scarce items hiding right in plain view in Maddog's images. Look at the last three yellow 1-cent Victorians; two of them have odd geometric cancels. They are some obscure type of Canadian precancel, precisely like what I sold (in a lot) on SB for a mere pittance, and then learned it cataloged nearly $100, LOL.

See http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=25408, the orange 1c Jubilee in the third row.

In February 2011, uncadonego recognized and confirmed it, and brutus bought it. Oh, well. My point is, there's valuable "stuff" everywhere, and a lot of it gets overlooked. Or dismissed.

patg; I like your idea

A working example of "Aunt Jeannie's" collection (keep this up and we'll have to make her a member here ) would be a great way to show what can (or not) be found in a 'kiddies collection'.

It would also (I hope!) show that even where there is something of value, it takes time and research to bring it to light - just as Doug's last post indicated.

Last year, on another thread;



What I'm hoping - and I think Muruk intended when he suggested a thread like this - is that, collectively, we might be able to shed some light on the 'dark secret' of stamp collecting.

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FORESTS OLD, PASTURES NEW
(An expert is one who knows more and more, about less and less, until they know absolutely everything about nothing at all)

mcgooley:
Great. I will take it on as a forensic study and try to be as thorough as I can. I've been wanting to something like this for fun, now I have an excuse.
Will report back in about a week.

Thanks,
pat

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"I don't have a lot - But I like what I got"

Congratulations to Muruk for coming up with the concept & to McGooley for initiating it. It's good that relevant issues are being discussed...........

But hopefully this will eventually lead to a thread where people can get some succinct (& not sometimes contradictory) advice.

To me it should then lead to an invitation for scans of pages from collections, with a warning to be prepared to provide enlarged scans of individual stamps.

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mobbor

You do realise this could get into a thread on how to properly photograph stamps using zoom and macro settings

Well the preferred and easiest method is to use a scanner and give us a decent large size scan of the stamp/s in question.

So many times a scan is posted and we are looking at a tiny life size (thumbnail) size image of stamps on screen and then being asked is that a flaw 2.13mm from the left hand edge!?

There is already a thread for exactly that though- the "practice posting an image thread."

If you are going to use a camera then you'd better have steady hands or a tripod.

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Greg - Looking for Goulburn Australia Cancels and Grangemouth Scotland Cancels and Covers
Member of the S.T.A.M.P Club for Slightly Twisted And Mad Philatelists - Motto: "Bring back the lick!"

I'm reading and trying to take this all in. This is pretty much my position. When my wife's grandparents died, we went through their belongings, such as they were, along with my wife's mother.

A lot of stuff got given away/binned. My wife didn't want his stamp collection to go the same way, so we ended up with it. Neither of us knew anything at all, so here it remained for what must be 8 years now.

Finally I decided to find out something about it. I have to say it never even occurred to me that there might be tax implications!

A bit of a learning curve ahead, it seems.

I imagine I am mailed or shown and BUY, more Estate lots in a month, than most members COMBINED here, will see in their lifetime.

I am the largest stamp buyer in Australia's biggest city, and the flood of them never stops -

http://www.glenstephens.com/buying.html

I can assess most large lots very fast, as when you have over 30 years experience of doing it, things follow a pattern most times.

That pattern is - spend very little on stamps during your life, accumulating lots of junk and having fun, and your end accumulation is worth just that - very little. The 'fun' part is priceless of course, but try telling the money grubbing rellies that.

For some odd reason most relatives assume Grandpa amassing suitcases of low price stuff, will reap massive financial rewards down the track, via some magic process.

Buy key pieces and sets in top condition at premium prices, and that is what you will get when you sell. Premium prices.



This is on my rarity page right now and will be removed tomorrow as it has sold quickly once again.

Superb "ABC" settings vertical strips of 3, wonderful and fresh with Cert, and worth very many $1000s.

This one piece is worth many times more than most average collector accumulations in 10 or 20 cartons.

I've owned it several times in recent years.

All bought by members here actually, who got into issues with family and other emergencies, and offered it back to me for same day cash payment, and I always was happy to do that, at near their full purchase price. As I KNOW such pieces sell fast.

Glen

Thanks for this thread and all of the information given out so far! Like others, I inherited a stamp collection years ago from my grandfather. While he was in WWII he acquired the collection in Germany, so it was more of a war memento for him than anything else. I don't think he ever added to the collection, or did any serious sorting of it at all. To my untrained eye it appears that most of the stamps are from the 1930's and 1940's, with a few prior to that, but obviously none from after the war.

A good portion of the stamps are in a stamp book (hinged, not glued or taped), listed by country. In addition, there are a lot of stamps in individual envelopes and many that are just loose that I have in bags. The stamps are from countries all over the world. I would say the number of stamps in this collection is in the hundreds, if not thousands.

I am simply in need of some help and guidance.

Should I post pictures and everything in this thread, or keep this a general posting thread and start a thread of my own with the pictures and details? Thanks again!

Rocky SC

The one thing you do NOT want to do is to post miscellaneous album pages to this site for identification/valuation. All you will be told is that the stamps are valueless

Your best bet is to

a) find a local dealer and ask what he will give you for it. It won't be much but you will have got it out of the attic!

OR

b) go to your local library and borrow/look at a Gibbons/Scott catalogue and identify the stamps for yourself. It will take a bit of time but at least you will know you haven't inadvertently given the dealer something of great value.

Good luck

Tony

Sadly, knowing a LITTLE about stamps is dangerous too.

The much feared "owner's catalogue value".

I was commissioned to drive across town very recently by a Solicitor who was executor of an Estate, to inspect 10 cartons of stamps.

Part of my typed appraisal said this -

Mr M had formed a very general word collection, and had generally taken the trouble to note the Stanley Gibbons catalogue value of each page on the facing page on white paper.

Mr M had a summary folder of these values, which added to £18,737.

Sadly Mr M was not accurate with much of the valuation thereon.

In many cases forgeries and reprints, and fiscal used stamps etc, were taken at face value - and counted as genuine stamps, when in fact they have little or no value. As were highly defective genuine stamps in many cases.

One instance of note was in Argentina where the 1862 issues were noted as having a catalogue value of £690, whereas they are in fact common forgeries worth a dollar or two the group etc.

The Suez Canal catalogued £200 are also common forgeries/reprints of negligible value. One third of the Africa section catalogue value was a CGH Triangle in average condition etc.

Likewise with the early Great Britain, which had a stated catalogue value of £3,581. There is an 1840 1d, scissor cut into at central base. Much of this GB is misidentified.

A GB 1847 10d Embossed is present only in defective cut to shape state, and the condition, cancels and faded/washed colour of many early items are scrap-heap grade, making them near worthless on today’s market.

The New Zealand had a stated catalogue value of £989 .. near all of that was defective 19th century issues.

Stamp value is very heavily condition based, and Mr M clearly had not been condition conscious when he purchased material. A poor copy was better than no copy it is clear. And several defective copies was better than one if they came his way.

Condition of the stamps overall was less than perfect, with toning/foxing/rust being evident all through it, some sections far worse than others.

I am advised the collection was stored for a considerable time in Queensland, where summer humidity is high, and I was further advised the stamps had at one time been in a flood affected area.

Foxing in stamps is like cancer in humans. Humidity causes it, and once it takes hold it gets worse, and there is no real cure in most cases.

These stamps I inspected WILL deteriorate substantially in condition and value, as the years go on.

The fungus is a living organism, and will keep growing and eating away at the paper of the stamps.

The approximate total market value in the current condition, of Ms M philatelic and numismatic collection, and associated housing and reference, is $2,500.


The highlighted section in red of a high SG figure is what caused the issue among the 2 beneficiaries who were squabbling over who got the "rare" stamps. Thinking they were worth a fortune.

I sent the Solicitor my account and got this response -

"Thanks for your time Glen, it has certainly put an issue to bed between the beneficiaries as they were labouring under the illusion they were sitting on a potential goldmine."

Between my fees of very many $100s, and the solicitors fees of doubtless many times my fees, as he has been in discussions with them over this for some time, the return to the beneficiaries if the stamps are sold, will be less than those fees is my guess. All because they saw a high $$$$$$$$ SG figure in a folder.

Glen

A cautionary tale from Glen above.

Indeed it is for these very reasons that having suffered major health problems in the last five years since I hit the big 60, I am 'downsizing' my collection and offering items to collectors on Stampboards AND eBay.

At least I have a bit of knowledge about what I have collected - only modern stuff, not 'valuable' 1800s stuff - and can ask - and get - a fair price for parts of my collection.

My wife & kids haven't a clue about stamps and wouldn't know what to do, so I'm just saving them an unwelcome job which will inevitably arrive sooner or later

Now, what should I do with my collection of books .... and all those old magazines?

Cheers

Tony

Since you are in Glasgow I suggest you try to contact the Caledonian Philatelic Society in Glasgow . possibly some member will give you a rough idea what the collection is worth , ie ordinary stuff of a general nature or potentially worth getting dealer to offer or submitting to an Auction

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whatever it is -------it's better than a poke in eye with a wet umbrella !

Well, actually, I WOULD start a new thread about your inherited collection and post abut 6 pages of images. Pick some of the more popular countries that he might have such as Germany, UK, US and Australia.

A few scans will give everyone a quick idea of the calibre of what he saved and a reasonable response from most members.

Just please don't expect someone to list up every catalogue value and number as that can be hours of work even to a a knowledgable collector.

If there is a stamp that catches our eye, we'll ask for a large scan of just that stamp to get a closer look.

2 stamps side by side can look identical until you find out one has a rare perf or a rare watermark etc - but that takes years of learning and research.

Never expect too much from an album, it was a bonus to you anyway and might well be a piece of your family history that you might rather keep.

If you want to check a few for yourself then the local library may have Stanley Gibbons catalogues, but you do need a basic idea of how to find the stamps in the catalogue. You may even like the experience and end up another caretaker of postal history to pass on to your kids and grandkids?

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Greg - Looking for Goulburn Australia Cancels and Grangemouth Scotland Cancels and Covers
Member of the S.T.A.M.P Club for Slightly Twisted And Mad Philatelists - Motto: "Bring back the lick!"

RockySC

Actually this whole thread was started because of the problem mentioned by Glencottage. If you do as Allanswood suggests, hopefully members will be a little more careful with their responses.

Following Glencottage's suggestions about seeing a dealer & doing a little research on your own are also good ideas.

It may be difficult to decide which pages from your collection to scan to show here. Checking out a catalogue will give you some idea of what may have some value.

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mobbor

Thanks for the information. I found the thread that begot this thread, and yeah, I'm rather confused if I should actually ever post any scans or not, lol.

I spent about 4-5 hours last night going through some of my loose stamps, separating the ones that are "on paper" from the ones that are not. The year range I have is wider than I first thought thought. There are still none after the war, but I do have some from many years prior to the 1930's going back to the 1800's. I know, trust me, older does not mean more collectible or more valuable, but it's still something to note for me at least personally.

I will post one image I took before I sorted or did anything to them. I imagine it will make some of you cringe. This is how everything was set up before...

Thanks, I'll probably do that. I don't think I'll be selling, as the collection is a memory of my wife's granddad. I just really want to find out something about it, and who knows, maybe add to it.

I have a quick question. Do the postmark/cancel marks matter in terms of collecting or value? For example, are some stamps, if they are monetarily worthless, made to be worth more with certain types of postmark/cancel marks? Do some people actually collect mainly for those marks? Or is it mainly a mixture of the two together more than anything?

Absolutely... and it works both ways.

For example the "catalog" for a particular Australian States stamp might say $20.00 USD.... but that is only for a genuine postal cancel.... with a fiscal or tax cancel.... it will be near minimum value.

And "postal history" collectors will be quick to point out that cheap stamps become very very valuable when still on their envelopes showing rare cancels, unusual rate usage, or unusual routing marks, or historic censor marks.... etc.

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"Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten."
G. K. Chesterton

Thanks, it helps a lot to know that.

What exactly is the difference between a genuine postal cancel and a fiscal/tax cancel mark? I have a few, not many but a very few, that have tiny pinholes on the stamp. Are those fiscal/tax marks?

For what it's worth, I fully understand why some here get irritated with new members.

I have one question that is probably obvious, but in the collection I have there are quite a lot of stamps in twos and threes where one stamp looks like the printing hasn't worked properly. Is that something people collect on purpose? It looks like he did.

To answer your last question first, the tiny pinholes sound as though they could be what are known as "perfins". Large companies, and Governments, in many countries, "perfinned" (punctured with a special machine) their stamps with their initials, or a logo, to combat theft of the stamps by their employees. Perfins, both government and private, are another collecting interest for some people, and there are a number of publications dedicated to them.

A genuine postal mark is considered to be one coming from a post office, in the period of the stamp. Postmarks take many forms; from the "circular datestamp" (CDS), through many variations of "barred numerals" (BN), and "bulls-eyes" and "pre-cancels" (Maddog showed some examples toward the top of this page).

These are considered different to the "cancelled to order" (CTO) marks which come in two forms; frequently found on gummed stamps, they were a method of disposing of remainders of issues - cancelled so as not to totally deface the stamp for collectors and then used as packet material. (The other CTO is where the marks were actually printed on the stamps - a practice of some countries, but not really relevant to the discussion here.)

Fiscal/tax marks are most commonly pen cancels. (Just to confuse the issue further, pen cancellations are also known from some post offices - but we'll leave that alone for now.) There are also examples of large businesses, and some government agencies, which had their own cancellers; these would show the business/agency details on the cancellation.

There are also Telegraph Punctures. A nice neat hole, relatively large, in the stamp which served in the same way as a normal ink cancellation.

One thing to remember is that the colour of the ink is not a true indicator of Postal v. Fiscal cancellations. Although black ink was supposed to be used by post offices there are very many instances of blue, green, violet, and red (and probably more) postmarks out there.

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FORESTS OLD, PASTURES NEW
(An expert is one who knows more and more, about less and less, until they know absolutely everything about nothing at all)

Could you post a scan because I didn't understand what you mean?

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My wantlist for Malta Revenues

I don't have a scanner. But there'll be two or three stamps together, unused and still joined like from a book, but one of them will have hardly any ink on it. So it's obvious that the nearly blank one would have been one of the batch, but it hasn't printed. He had several like that.

Is this the sort of thing you are asking about?



Norm

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Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

Based on your decription, I would suggest you have these looked at by someone; perhaps at a stamp club; or if you have the use of a camera, upload an image or two via Photobucket to this Stampboard.

Unused stamp blocks and strips are more desirable than single copies, particularly if they contain a printing error joined with a normal one for comparison. Here is an example, showing a printing flaw on the right hand stamp (to the right of the crown).



This image also illustrates two other features that collectors value: an attached border (selvedge), which helps 'position' the stamps on a complete pane/sheet; and a 'plate number', which indicates upon which printing plate the error ocurred.

What this is attempting to demonstrate, is that when an inherited collection contains items in this or similar format, advice should be sought.

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Clive

Ok, wow, lol. Would anyone here like to help explain to me just how to even use a Scott catalog?

First, and foremost, it is important to understand that prices quoted in a current catalogue (any catalogue) are what you can reasonably expect to pay for an item....not what you will most likely be able to sell it for.

In recent catalogues, including Scott's, I find that there is generally only one or two illustrations of a stamp issue. This can be frustrating sometimes because often you'll get a few different designs within an issue, and you don't always have the visual reference

So, you find the stamp you're looking for. Beside its entry are two prices. The left-hand figure refers to the stamp in mint condition. This is full fresh gum, well-centred, perfect perforations, no hinge marks, no brown spots or toning. "Post Office Fresh".

The right-hand price is for postally used. This means "fine" postally used, similar to the CTO described above. No heavy obliterations, no pen marks.

Stamp catalogues are about stamps; not postmarks, or perfins, or postal history (which is the stamp, used on a 'cover' [envelope] and showing all the transit markings and stuff like that).

And most of the current All World catalogues do not have the space for things like errors or flaws. For these you have to consult a specialist catalogue - and to do that is something that comes with experience. Or, if you're like me, you don't bother

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FORESTS OLD, PASTURES NEW
(An expert is one who knows more and more, about less and less, until they know absolutely everything about nothing at all)

And, borrow one from your local library and read the Introduction.

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Jay Carrigan
http://www.jaypex.com

message for Pilch!!

I repeat in a way what my advice was last week;

Yesterday was Scottish Congress in Perth and I spoke to the President of the Glasgow "CALEDONIAN PHILATELIC SOCIETY".

He confirms that they have a small sub group of 3 members who will be willing to look at a collection and give you an opinion as to the possible interest and rough value of your collection --- Ie; very basic, average, or serious stuff----and point you towards best way to handle disposal if that is your wish --------Keep, Trade,auction, local dealer or whatever. get on the internet and check out their website .

There is also a Stamp Shop in West Nile Street . The owner is helpful and polite !

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whatever it is -------it's better than a poke in eye with a wet umbrella !

Thanks for the tips guys. I didn't have any time to get into this over the weekend what with Mother's Day and all but I'm still on it. I'm having a very hard time even figuring out how to look up one single stamp though. Then on top of that, even if one has little to no value apparently it can still be worth a bit depending on marks and errors. Talk about confusing, lol.

I am going to start scanning the pages of the album soon and put them here...

http://www.photobucket.com/rockyscstamps

One quick question though. Is the following a stamp or something else? I see no monetary value (or whatever it's called) or anything on this piece, but it was mixed in with all of the other loose stamps.

It's worth noting that there really aren't many stamps where the basic issue is worth that much. Those that there are tend to be of two basic types:

a) High face values. Old stamps with a face value much higher and therefore rarer than the normal postage rates, e.g. all the British £1 stamps issued before 1930 are reasonably valuable.

b) Stamps that have a particular set of circumstances attached to them which meant only a handful of copies got issued. The Mauritius "Post Office" stamps (red and blue) are an example of this, as are China's "The Whole Country is Red" stamps.

Most of the stamps that are "valuable" are so because they are rarer shades, printing errors, plate numbers or watermark types. This makes researching a much slower process, but also more engaging!

Your 'stamp' looks very much to me like a "Cinderella". These are non-postal items generally used for publicity purposes by companies and organizations.

Someone will know more about this one, which looks vaguely Austrian to my untrained eye. It might pay to start a new topic in the Cinderella forum;

http://www.stampboards.com/viewforum.php?f=23

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FORESTS OLD, PASTURES NEW
(An expert is one who knows more and more, about less and less, until they know absolutely everything about nothing at all)

Perhaps this is moving away a little from the topic at hand but in some respect still related to it.

I am sure people like Glen and other long time dealers and long time collectors who have been in this game all their life encounter people who have a delusion of grandeur on price and scarcity.

I was shown a collection/hoard of Australia Post Year Books last week. There were a few, maybe 50 or so, but many double ups, in very wild condition from good to horrible - toning, yellow spots, poorly stored.

I asked how much the chap wanted and he replied $85 I thought that was decent. Nothing special in them, but as postage they were good and I could sell the 6 or so that were in pristine condition.

Well wasn’t I wrong. He meant $85 each!

How does one go about advising these kinds of people in the nicest possible way that their "treasure" rally isn’t that scarce and valuable?

Any hints / tips?

Rob.

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Warm Regards, Rob
If you have time, please visit my blog: http://sparetimecollector.blogspot.com/

Well tip #1 from me anyway is never ask a seller what they want - as you did.

That creates an impossible situation when he says $85 each and you really think $10 each is fair given bad condition. A deal will never occur in that situation.

It all comes down to experience I guess, but in 30 years I have never asked in 1000s of transactions what a seller wants.

If a box is worth $500 to me, I offer $500 cash.

I might get told "that's great, I'd thought they only be worth $100 or so" - or - "that's not great, I'd thought they only be worth $1000 or so"

Either way, I buy the stamps in 99% of cases. In the latter case pointing out the foxing and poor condition you mention carries the day most often. Owners seldom are aware of foxing and rust until it is pointed out.

So I'll say in this case "yes, if I could wave a magic wand over these and make all the foxing vanish, I'd gladly offer twice as much."

In the latter case if I asked and was told the seller wanted $1,000 and I then offered $500, it creates a very uncomfortable situation, and when a husband/wife are here, it becomes a bit of a "loss of face" scenario then. BAD news all round.

Fair experienced buyers know exactly what to offer. As long as it is fair, it generally works out well. I've done this big time for over 30 years, and seldom do not prevail in buying collections.

If you are fair and decent, people sense it, I think. And remember I often see the box after it has been shopped to 5 other dealers who try and pick and choose and cherry pick the lot - not many an all-up offer as I ALWAYS do. Sellers want a fair price for it ALL, not just the good pieces.

Glen