Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

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Lesley
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Lesley »

Hope someone can help with plating this ½d pair , second stamp has a partial break in top frame above US of AUSTRALIA. Left marginal line.
½d pair
½d pair
Top Frame ½d
Top Frame ½d
scan009c.jpg

Thanks,

Les

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

Morning Les,

You have a nice example of 1R6 (the right hand stamp) and of 1R5.

The variety-characteristics of 1R6 are shown in the WIKI

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=661709#p661709

Philip

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Can anyone verify/confirm that Chapman possibly mixed up the identification of a flaw behind the roo's left ear tip?

Here's Chapman's description for L39: "LEFT PANE No. 39 Kangaroo Plate: 3rd Watermark: Colour flaw to right of tip of left ear. 5/-only seen. (See Right Pane No.39)".

Here's my 3rd watermark copy of the vignette for L39:

117.5.2.09.00.043-71.L39QAE 2400.jpg


Here's my copy of the vignette for L38:

117.5.2.08.00.054-71.L38QAE 2400.jpg
The colour flaw is not exactly at the tip but it is not accounted for by Chapman for this cliche.

Consulting Phoenix's website proved unsatisfactory. They have no illustration for the ear flaw.

So who has a similar copy of L38 or L39? Is L38 a different flaw but similar to L39?
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by rsellens »

Kainnikanada wrote:
09 Sep 2020 12:38
Can anyone verify/confirm that Chapman possibly mixed up the identification of a flaw behind the roo's left ear tip?

Here's Chapman's description for L39: "LEFT PANE No. 39 Kangaroo Plate: 3rd Watermark: Colour flaw to right of tip of left ear. 5/-only seen. (See Right Pane No.39)".

Consulting Phoenix's website proved unsatisfactory. They have no illustration for the ear flaw.

So who has a similar copy of L38 or L39? Is L38 a different flaw but similar to L39?
Chapman dose not appear to have mixed up these two descriptions. You appear have missed this:

LEFT PANE No 39 Kangaroo Plate:1st to 3rd watermark: Notch in right outline of left ear. White outline to heel of left leg.

Both of these flaws are are present on your L39.

Here are the examples from the Premier Postal flaw guide.

L39 Notch in right outline of left ear.
L39 Notch in right outline of left ear.

L39 White outline to heel of left leg.
L39 White outline to heel of left leg.


Neither Chapman or the PPA guide describe any flaws on the L38 10/- prior to the appearance of the 'weeping kangaroo' flaw on 3rd watermark stamps.

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Ross,

You've delved too deeply. I wasn't asking about either of the 2 flaws you've commented on. I've noted those in the wiki. I'm asking about the colour flaw adjacent left ear only (as shown in the 2nd sscan) - note the roo has only one left ear (and not the left one (sic) as Chapman states that has the nick in it).
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Pampstamp »

Have a query for this 2/ Roo 3rd watermark!

99.9% of the time I would say that someone has taken to the bottom with scissors :lol: :lol:

But when I line up the stamp with another 3rd watermark Roo they match in total size.
I agree some are somewhat larger with the larger margins but not by very much??
2s roo imperfe.jpg
2s roo imperfe 1.jpg

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by josto »

Hi!

Could you send a scan of the back of the stamp with the watermark visible?

Greetings

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by The Pom »

Kainnikanada wrote:
13 Sep 2020 13:17
Ross,

You've delved too deeply. I wasn't asking about either of the 2 flaws you've commented on. I've noted those in the wiki. I'm asking about the colour flaw adjacent left ear only (as shown in the 2nd sscan) - note the roo has only one left ear (and not the left one (sic) as Chapman states that has the nick in it).
Rod,
Are you referring to the mark circled below? If so, unless my eyes are playing up, it's greenish in colour and presumably something unconnected with the printing of the stamp.
Cheers
Chris


Ear flaw.jpg
Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by The Pom »

Pampstamp wrote:
15 Sep 2020 00:42
Have a query for this 2/ Roo 3rd watermark!

99.9% of the time I would say that someone has taken to the bottom with scissors :lol: :lol:

But when I line up the stamp with another 3rd watermark Roo they match in total size.
I agree some are somewhat larger with the larger margins but not by very much??

Image
Almost certainly the result of a perf skip. Imagine the block below rotated 90°and trimmed just above the perfs.



Image
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Chris,

That's the mark I'm referring to. I believe it's of a similar colour as seen in the vignette. Also, it's shape appears to mimic the outline of the adjacent edge of the ear.

I might update my comments on the cliche by calling this a provisional flaw - i.e. subject to confirmation.

There seem to be a few vignettes with residual marks surrounding the ears. Perhaps they're transitory.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Pampstamp »

josto wrote:
15 Sep 2020 01:22
Hi!

Could you send a scan of the back of the stamp with the watermark visible?

Greetings

The Pom wrote:
15 Sep 2020 02:05
Pampstamp wrote:
15 Sep 2020 00:42
Have a query for this 2/ Roo 3rd watermark!

99.9% of the time I would say that someone has taken to the bottom with scissors :lol: :lol:

But when I line up the stamp with another 3rd watermark Roo they match in total size.
I agree some are somewhat larger with the larger margins but not by very much??

Image
Almost certainly the result of a perf skip. Imagine the block below rotated 90°and trimmed just above the perfs.

The watermark is complete and NO marginal line is visible!!

Never seen a perf skip in the Roos before but can NOW understand how it happens!!

Seems like a genuine imperforate to me :lol: :lol:
2s roo imperfe 2.jpg

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

While posting examples of L1-30 3rd watermarked 5/- roos to the wiki I found a substituted vignette (Roo) in position L29.

The original L29 had a vignette with a defective Roo's snout and a truncated grassy area as seen below (from an NWPI block of 4) and unlisted in the ACSC and Chapman:

2nd watermark
092.4.5.29.00.013-02.L29LAM.jpg
----------
092.4.5.29.00.013-51.L29LAM.jpg
----------
092.4.5.29.00.013-52.L29LAM.jpg
----------



3rd watermark
From an NWPI block of 30 - L 1-30

116.5.5.29.00.053-02.L29YDX 2400.jpg
----------
116.5.5.29.00.053-51.L29YDX 2400.jpg
----------
116.5.5.29.00.053-52.L29YDX 2400.jpg
----------
The substituted vignette and the duty plate have no readily identifiable flaws so a 5/- example would have to be collected in a multiple where another cliche had a flaw so the multiple could be accurately plated.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by danyeung »

Hi, can the experts offer their opinion on below 6d blue stamp ? Thanks

Is the inner frame overinking and outer frame underinking ? Is it common to have both next to each other ?

Does the heavy map coast line also a result of overinking ?

Roo 6d blue 3rd watermark
Roo 6d blue 3rd watermark
P.S. I've posted the same stamp on the 6d blue Die IIA substituted cliche roos thread and raised the question whether this is a Die IIA substituted cliche or not.

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=25115&start=400

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

danyeung,

Over- and Under-inking can occur for a number of reasons, including characteristics of the ink, changes in plate pressure on the paper surface, problems with cleaning of the printing plate, etc.

Over-and Under-inking is also non-constant.

On your example, there is one issue - over-inking - which, as you observe, affects inner and outer frames and the map coast line.

Philip

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by danyeung »

Thanks Philip, appreciate your help.

Re:overinking - the outer frame is underinking and the inner frame is overinking. Is it common to have both around the same area ?
Roo 6d blue left frames
Roo 6d blue left frames

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Micky »

Good evening, I finally received this one with sub cliche also sadly creased but for only $8 so I think I am still ahead a couple dollars.

I noticed a scratch top right of N.T going up towards the G in Postage, is this anything of interest?

Image
Image
Image


Micky

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

danyeung wrote:
18 Sep 2020 15:22
Image
Does this stamp only have one side? Most stamps have a back and are watermarked. Provide all pertinent information for a proper assessment.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by danyeung »

Hi Kainnikanada, thanks for offering your help :)

Below are the front, back, top right corner and left frames for the assessment.
Roo 6d blue
Roo 6d blue
Back of the Roo 6d blue
Back of the Roo 6d blue
Roo 6d blue top right corner
Roo 6d blue top right corner
Roo 6d blue left frames
Roo 6d blue left frames

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

dan,

The ink squeeze and accumulation on the left side of the stamp indicated to me the stmp was from the left side of the printing plate. The vertical watermark line proves that observation.

The substituted cliche should be from the lower right corner i.e. either a vertical, a horizontal or combo of both lines might be present.

I didn't have to look at the seeming Die 2A break or the upper right corner to draw my conclusion.

I'll let others explain ink squeeze/accumulation in cliches found on the left and right perimeters of sheets of both Roos and Geo V. ...and the importance of posting scans of the backs of stamps for assisting in the proper identification of potential flaws or plate positioning.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by danyeung »

Thanks again Kainnikanada for your help :)

Members Philip James & Pampstamp also helped to confirm the stamp is Die IIb in the other thread.

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Note regarding the 5/- wiki.

I've just completely revised the listing for 2nd watermarked 5/- L6 based on a 3rd watermarked example and a colourised view of the existing 5/- I posted several years ago.

Link is:

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=19540&p=745346#p745346

I could be revising numerous posts depending on what's seen on these 3rd watermarked blocks of 30 I am posting.

Viewing scans in original colours often obscures constant varieties found on the Duty plates. The vignettes are of a different colour and are quite visible.
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