Heligoland stamps. Discussion of reprints, fakes & forgeries

General things you want to know. Stamps you can't identify. Catalogue values you need to establish. Advice on ANYTHING stamp related you want. SOMEONE might be able to help. You can post photos of the stamps right here to assist . NOTE: - We have a nearby Forum for basic questions from *NEW* collectors.

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mlr
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Heligoland stamps. Discussion of reprints, fakes & forgeries

Post by mlr »

Morning...

How can one tell whether this stamp (or any) of Heligoland are the real deal or a less valuable reprint?

Image

Thanks...

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Re: Real or reprint? - HELIGOLAND

Post by Greg Ioannou »

There's a terrific Heligoland website. Here's one of the relevant pages:

http://www.fritzwagner.com/helgoland/robert_pollard_heligoland.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Greg

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Re: Real or reprint? - HELIGOLAND

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

AFAIK the shape of that wiggly little curl off the bottom of the bun at the back of QV's head is one of the telltale signs. Colours are very important as well.

That site that Greg mentioned is probably the best online resource on these issues.
Tony
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Re: Real or reprint? - HELIGOLAND

Post by tonyevans1 »

mlr wrote:Morning...

How can one tell whether this stamp (or any) of Heligoland are the real deal or a less valuable reprint?

Image

Thanks...
To be Original this stamp should be Dark Carmine and Green which this does not appear to be and under ultra-violet light it should be Violet and Greenish Black.

The Perfs should be 13.5x14.25 with large holes - if the perf holes are small then it is a Leipzig reprint (1888) - If it has 14x14 perf it is 1st or second Hamburg reprint.

Tony
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Re: Real or reprint? - HELIGOLAND

Post by fromdownunder »

mlr, I always work on the assumption that any Heligoland, German Colonies, Papal States, Italian States, "the uglies", higher catalogued used German inflation stamps, etc. are fakes unless otherwise indicated. I get less disappointed that way.

Many can be easily identified from a scan, so it is a good idea to post these sorts of things here, because we have expert members who can identify, maybe 90%+ of the time, the real from the fakes just from a scan or point to somebody who can.

The other -10% the only real way is a certificate, and that can be a raffle, to spend maybe $100 and wait six months to establish that you have wasted your $100.

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Re: Real or reprint? - HELIGOLAND

Post by tonyevans1 »

I must disagree with that as far as Heligoland is concerned Norm - There are more genuine stamps around than most people think and with the use of a "Black Light" and a perforation gauge it is quite easy to sort the "Original" stamps from the "Reprints" - the term "Fakes" does not really apply to the reprints as they were printed from the original printing plates that were legally purchased and some were even printed by the same printer as the Originals in Berlin.

There are in fact very few true fakes from people such as Spiro around and these usually fetch as much or more than the real thing.

Tony
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Re: Real or reprint? - HELIGOLAND

Post by fromdownunder »

Sorry Tony, sometimes when in a hurry I post imprecise language. Of course I meant fakes and/or reprints, and conflated the two.

I appreciate that some "fakes" are even worth more than the originals (some Sperati's for example), or actually have a market value of their own, but that most, if not all reprints are worth a fraction of the original.

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Re: Real or reprint? - HELIGOLAND

Post by crazygerman »

Hi all,

these reprint are found not only mint but also with forged cancellations.
To distinguish them from genuine used stamps it is very helpful to take a look into the book from Hellmuth Lemberger "Helgoland Philatelie".
Unfortunatley for you it is written in german.
You can find a copy in the philatelistic library of Hamburg.
http://www.philatelistische-bibliothek.de" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
is the link to it.
There are chapters about all known diffenrent types of cancellations including pictures of them, about all stamps of Heligoland and about the reprints and how to tell the difference to the genuine stamps.

Regards,
from beautiful SW-Germany

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Re: Real or reprint? - HELIGOLAND

Post by billlel »

Great work guys. Heligoland has always had me scratching my head.

Any comments on these would be appreciated. Many thanks Bill.

Image

Image
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Re: Real or reprint? - HELIGOLAND

Post by gavin-h »

The bottom two are cutouts from Newspaper Wrappers. Probably genuine, sadly not particularly valuable :idea:

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Re: Real or reprint? - HELIGOLAND

Post by Greg Ioannou »

As Tony said, you can't really be 100% sure without putting them under the tanning lamp and checking the perfs.

Greg

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Re: Real or reprint? - HELIGOLAND

Post by tonyevans1 »

gavin-h wrote:The bottom two are cutouts from Newspaper Wrappers. Probably genuine, sadly not particularly valuable :idea:
These are most likely reprints which were done on small bits in the first place and exist in there 1000's
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Re: Real or reprint? - HELIGOLAND

Post by tonyevans1 »

billlel wrote:Great work guys. Heligoland has always had me scratching my head.

Any comments on these would be appreciated. Many thanks Bill.

Image

Image
The 6 shilling is a reprint as the "perfs" are much too clean and sharp - the originals are much courser and give a very rough division.

The bottom 2 could be from newspaper wrappers but are most likely reprints of which there are 1000,s around.
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Re: Real or reprint? - HELIGOLAND

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

tonyevans1 wrote: The 6 shilling is a reprint as the "perfs" are much too clean and sharp - the originals are much courser and give a very rough division.
They are rouletted aren't they :?:

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Re: Real or reprint? - HELIGOLAND

Post by tonyevans1 »

Lakatoi 4 wrote:
tonyevans1 wrote: The 6 shilling is a reprint as the "perfs" are much too clean and sharp - the originals are much courser and give a very rough division.
They are rouletted aren't they :?:
It.s just words really but yes the type of perforation is called rouletting. :D
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Re: Real or reprint? - HELIGOLAND

Post by mlr »

Thanks muchly Greg. That was very helpful.

I've got a Hamburg reprint. *sigh* :)

I hit reply before refreshing the page....was surprised to see so much discussion!

Thanks all for the comments; apparently I won't be retiring just yet....

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Heligoland made a little easier - Maybe

Post by tonyevans1 »

Hi - I have just started making pages for a Helgoland/Heligoland album with basic information and images to show the difference when viewed under long wave Ultra Violet light and it occurred to me that this may be of interest to someone other than me. It certainly gives all you need to tell the reprints from the original.

Image

The original is a PDF file and the only way I could get a picture up here was to print and scan and the quality has dropped of along the way but I can post individual images if anyone is interested.

I will post further pages as I make them.

Tony
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Re: Helgoland made a little easer - Maybe

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Tony,

Nice idea 8)

Is there any reaction to UV for the Hamburg & Leipzig reprints :?:
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Re: Helgoland made a little easer

Post by tonyevans1 »

Lakatoi 4 wrote:Tony,

Nice idea 8)

Is there any reaction to UV for the Hamburg & Leipzig reprints :?:
No - They used the correct type of ink on those for this denomination (2 Farthings) However the Hamburg is easy to pick by the 14x14 perfs and the Leipzig has small hole size.

Tony
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Re: Helgoland made a little easer - Maybe

Post by OttawaMike »

I'd love to see these with bigger scans of each stamp - if you're looking for something to do! :D

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Re: Helgoland made a little easer

Post by tonyevans1 »

OttawaMike wrote:I'd love to see these with bigger scans of each stamp - if you're looking for something to do! :D
Your wish is my command Mike :wink:

Image
Genuine - Left Normal - Right Ultra-Violet

Image
Berlin Reprint - Left Normal - Right Ultra-Violet

Image
Hamburg Reprint

Image
Leipzig Reprint
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Re: Heligoland made a little easier - Maybe

Post by gavin-h »

Tony,

Very useful information... 8)

...I might have to dig out some of my old Heligoland stamps that I have always assumed to be reprints :idea:

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Re: Heligoland made a little easier - Maybe

Post by crazygerman »

Hi Tony!

Marvellous!!

Please go on.

Regards,
from beautiful SW-Germany

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Re: Heligoland made a little easier - Maybe

Post by OttawaMike »

Thank-you, Sir! :D

This should be very helpful when I finally get around to re-sorting my accumulation of Heligoland.

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Re: Heligoland made a little easie

Post by tonyevans1 »

Someone Emailed me and asked if I could post how I took the UV images because they were not as Violet as others he has seen so here goes.

This is my home made camera stand set up with the UV light to one side - I find I can then just adjust the amount of natural light that comes in by just using my hand as a shield and the combination of UV and daylight gives a picture that shows the ink colour change without the violet overwhelming the image.
Camera = Cannon 350D
Lens = Cannon 18-55mm - with Bellows
ISO = 400
Exposure = 1 second

Image

I do of course use a very complex adjustable stand system for light and target :shock: :shock:

Tony
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Re: Heligoland made a little easier - Maybe

Post by COLIN »

Tony

Got these the other day, most are probably reprints with the exception of no3 in the bottom row

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Re: Heligoland made a little easier - Maybe

Post by COLIN »

Tony

Any idea what these are?. I can only assume that they are some kind of postal stationary cut outs


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Re: Heligoland made a little easie

Post by tonyevans1 »

COLIN wrote:Tony

Any idea what these are?. I can only assume that they are some kind of postal stationary cut outs


Image
They were the printed news paper wrapper which were about 10" long but 1000's of reprints on small paper squares like this were made. I will post a picture of a genuine one later.

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Re: Heligoland made a little easier - Maybe

Post by COLIN »

Thanks Tony

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Re: Heligoland made a little easier - Maybe

Post by gavin-h »

Image

Here's one that I believe to be genuine - but cut down...

...Tony's opinion would be welcome :wink:

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Re: Heligoland made a little easie

Post by tonyevans1 »

Here are scans of the full Newspaper wrapper but part is still folded under as they are too long for the scanner - Also shown are reprints which were produced in a small/short version but still showing the lines top and bottom.
Image

Image

Gavin - Yes it would seem genuine as I have not seen any reprints in the long form.

Tony
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Re: Heligoland made a little easier - Maybe

Post by bob stanley »

Tony,

If you ever make your research available in total I would be very interested in gaining a copy.

I still rely on Robert Pollard's article, and while excellent in itself, would be greatly augmented by your comments and scans.

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Help to ID a Heligoland stamp, please

Post by Mike Q »

I only have a Scott catalog and haven't been able to figure this one out. Searching the Net I found some info on errors and reprints but they were written in German (which I don't speak). Can anyone help with ID and catalogue value? It appears the stamp is a perf 14 - which doesn't show in Scott. Thanks in advance for any help given...

(Dead link Removed - Mods)

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Re: Help to ID a Heligoland stamp, please

Post by putnum »

Mike,

I searched on the net and found these links hope they help!

http://www.fritzwagner.com/helgoland/helgoland_stamps_intro.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


http://www.fritzwagner.com/helgoland/robert_pollard_heligoland.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Adam Howard - http://www.volkswagenstamps.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Help to ID a Heligoland stamp,

Post by tonyevans1 »

The link that putnum gave is the best Heligoland resource on the web.

The stamp looks like the Hamburg 1895 4th printing with the type 2 head (olive green/carmine) - the hair curl has been obliterated by over inking. Current value $2 or who knows on Ebay with a fuzzy description :lol: :lol: .

Hope this helps - Tony
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Re: Help to ID a Heligoland stamp, please

Post by Mike Q »

Thank you both for the help. Have a great day...

Mike

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Are these genuine Heligoland stamps?

Post by Leggs »

Hi Everyone,

I need some help with these 2 stamps. I've looked at the ones shown in the Scott book but they are more than one color and different postal amounts. The green one is on thicker paper and you can see the texture of the stamp coming thru the back. The red one is on super-thin paper. The red one looks like it was cut off of a cover but the green one does not. Did they ever have pre-stamped envelopes for Heligoland?


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Re: Heligoland stamps

Post by tonyevans1 »

Leggs wrote:Hi Everyone,

I need some help with these 2 stamps. I've looked at the ones shown in the Scott book but they are more than one color and different postal amounts. The green one is on thicker paper and you can see the texture of the stamp coming thru the back. The red one is on super-thin paper. The red one looks like it was cut off of a cover but the green one does not. Did they ever have pre-stamped envelopes for Heligoland?


Image
Hi, These are Postcard and PSE cut-outs and worth very little. Sorry - Tony
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Re: Heligoland stamps

Post by Leggs »

Thank you for the info. Wow!!! Do people ever call you Lightning? It hasn't even been 5 minutes since my post!!!
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Re: Heligoland stamps

Post by tonyevans1 »

Leggs wrote:Thank you for the info. Wow!!! Do people ever call you Lightning? It hasn't even been 5 minutes since my post!!!
Faster than a speeding Catalogue :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

If you are interested in Heligoland try this web site.

http://www.fritzwagner.com/helgoland/helgoland_stamps_intro.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers Tony
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Re: Heligoland stamps

Post by doug2222usa »

If I had been paying attention, it would have been 4 minutes. :mrgreen:

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Re: Heligoland stamps

Post by Saston »

tonyevans1 wrote: Hi, These are Postcard and PSE cut-outs and worth very little. Sorry - Tony
Sorry if this is slightly off topic but what does PSE stand for?

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Re: Heligoland stamps

Post by Leggs »

Soooooo, do we call you Thunder since you came after the Lightning this time Doug? YIKES!!! Actually, I have no room to be sassy to someone with as many posts as you.

PSE = Pre Stamped Envelope (That's my guess)
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Re: Heligoland stamps

Post by tonyevans1 »

Leggs wrote:Soooooo, do we call you Thunder since you came after the Lightning this time Doug? YIKES!!! Actually, I have no room to be sassy to someone with as many posts as you.

PSE = Pre Stamped Envelope (That's my guess)
Tis true Leggs - Tis true = Both the PSE and Doug being just a lot of noise :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think you should wander over to the "Ask the grumpy old men's" thread - I think you will fit in there very well :D :D :D :shock:
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Re: Are these genuine Heligoland stamps?

Post by mrboggler »

The reason Tony is sooooo quick is. :roll:
he really has little else to do up there Via Walgett. :wink:
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Re: Are these genuine Heligoland s

Post by tonyevans1 »

mrboggler wrote:The reason Tony is sooooo quick is. :roll:
he really has little else to do up there Via Walgett. :wink:
You will keep Grand Master You will keep :evil: :evil:
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Help required to determine authenticity of Heligoland stamps

Post by skilo54 »

Hello folks :D
I would like to know if the following six stamps are real, reprints or forgeries. I have done some on-line research following some of the links in other Heligoland threads, but I haven't been able to make my own conclusion :? I appreciate any and all feedback regarding my question! Thanks!
Skilo54

Image
Image
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Re: Help required to determine authenticity of Heligoland stamps

Post by Global Administrator »

As a dealer I assume they are all reprints UNLESS they have a Cert. Near everyone does.

That saves hours of reading books. :)
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Re: Help required to determine authenticity of Heligoland stamps

Post by skilo54 »

Global Administrator wrote:As a dealer I assume they are all reprints UNLESS they have a Cert. Near everyone does.

That saves hours of reading books. :)

If they are real, what would the stamps I have shown be worth? I know there is a fee involved with getting them certified, and I would like to know if it is something I should consider doing. There are also some major inking issues and errors in the stamps above.... =
hours of reading books :roll: A specialist could probably look at them once and tell me all about them!
Cheers,
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Re: Help required to determine authenticity of Heligoland stamps

Post by albumweeder »

Hi

From the top:

Reprint - colour wrong and possibly perfs as well The originals are on a distinctive meshed paper
Reprint - wrong head type also the meshed paper
Reprint - originals are only rouletted
Reprint - perfs, also medallion printing and embossing out of register - originals have medalliion printed and embossed in a single operation.
Reprint - perfs and colour are wrong original red shows as dark purple under UV..
3pfg arms - this is the most difficult of the Heligoland reprints to detect. Here are a few BAD signs that catches a good lot of Reprints:

Perf 14 (Line) = Hamburg reprint.
Red that shows bright orange under UV - the originals and some Berlin show as a dark purple.

But to have a better idea I would really need to fondle the subject!

If this doesn't answer you let me know - there were a couple of helpful websites - I can dig out the URLs but not quickly and not if I don't have to!
Larry [a.k.a albumweeder]

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