Heligoland stamps. Discussion of reprints, fakes & forgeries

General things you want to know. Stamps you can't identify. Catalogue values you need to establish. Advice on ANYTHING stamp related you want. SOMEONE might be able to help. You can post photos of the stamps right here to assist . NOTE: - We have a nearby Forum for basic questions from *NEW* collectors.

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by bennyandersen »

joelk wrote:Here are a few of mine. I'm not hopeful they are worth much (and some are in poor condition), but if someone wants to try to identify them, I would be most grateful. Thanks!



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All from Helgoland. From above:

a. genuine
b. not genuine
c. probably not genuine
d. genuine
e. genuine
f. not genuine

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Re: Are any of these Heligoland stamps NOT reprints?

Post by bennyandersen »

deerlandstamps wrote:From the grandfather's collection. Knowing the reputation of these I'll assume they are reprints unless someone knowledgeable suggests otherwise. High-res scans are available if needed for any of them.

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The stamp on the far right (1/2 Schilling used) is on thicker, "spongier" paper than the others.
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Thanks in advance for the help!
From top left succeeding to the rigt, then next line and so on, a b c d and so on:

1. line: all not genuine
2. line: a genuine if perf 13,5 x 14,25 b not genuine c genuine
3. line: a not genuine b not genuine c genuine d not genuine e genuine
4. line: a not genuine b not genuine c genuine

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Re: Heligoland made a little easier - Maybe

Post by bennyandersen »

COLIN wrote:Tony

Got these the other day, most are probably reprints with the exception of no3 in the bottom row

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From the top left:

nr 1, 3, 4, 5 (despite the annullation !) are not genuines.
nr 2 is either genuine, or a beautiful Berlin reprint if 13,5 x 14,25 or a beutiful Hamburg reprint if perforation 14 x 14. Only UV will show it
nr 6 is probably a reprint because of the colour and because of no ridge, and therefore the annullation is fake
nr 7 could be genuine looking at the colours, specially the carmine colour in the crown, but it could be as well a reprint from Berlin, if 13,5 x 14,25, or from Hamburg, if 14 x 14. UV would be helpful.

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by bennyandersen »

The Collector wrote:I have had a look through https://www.fritzwagner.com/helgoland/heligoland_reprint_tables.html which is probably the best resource on Heligoland, but been stumped by the first stamp, which is the 1½sch SG9 (if authentic), but note that it uses Die III, when the original uses Die I. But, none of the known reprints (Berlin, Leipzig, Hamburg) of this stamp use Die III, according to that resource, or any I could find.

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Does this mean this is a forgery? You can partly see a cancellation: is this too fake, assuming the stamp is a forgery? Or what is it?

Secondly, the second stamp seems to have the embossing misaligned from the head. Never seen this before, so wondering whether this is something unusual?

Image

Thanks!
Both stamps are reprints and the annullation ia fake.

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by bennyandersen »

gugusg wrote:if someone could tell me if theses are crude reprint or obvious legit, do not hesitate :)

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From top left.

Line 1: all are not genuine, and therefore a false annullation, even if it looks nice
Line 2: all are fakes
Line 3: all are fakes
Line 4: 1, 2, 3, 4 are fakes, nr 5 could be genuine if perf 13,5 x 14,25 and the right skin under UV light, but it looks like fake because of a little light green colour
Line 5: 1 is probably a fake, but a funny one. 2 and 3 are genuine !
Line 6: 1, 2 and 3are not genuine. 4 and 5 are genuine !

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Re: Real or reprint? - HELIGOLAND

Post by Machaggis52 »

gavin-h wrote:The bottom two are cutouts from Newspaper Wrappers. Probably genuine, sadly not particularly valuable :idea:
I have a few 'Heligoland' knocking about, acquired in large lots, I've never deliberately bought them after reading the history. Must dig them out and post them for an opinion. :D
With kind regards, Jim

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Re: Real or reprint? - HELIGOLAND

Post by bennyandersen »

Machaggis52 wrote:
gavin-h wrote:The bottom two are cutouts from Newspaper Wrappers. Probably genuine, sadly not particularly valuable :idea:
I have a few 'Heligoland' knocking about, acquired in large lots, I've never deliberately bought them after reading the history. Must dig them out and post them for an opinion. :D
Let us see the stamps, it sounds interesting.

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by Machaggis52 »

Picture snagged from EBay. Genuine?

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With kind regards, Jim

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by joelk »

bennyandersen wrote:
joelk wrote:Here are a few of mine. I'm not hopeful they are worth much (and some are in poor condition), but if someone wants to try to identify them, I would be most grateful. Thanks!



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All from Helgoland. From above:

a. genuine
b. not genuine
c. probably not genuine
d. genuine
e. genuine
f. not genuine
Bennyandersen,

Thank you so much for sharing your expertise and taking the time and trouble of going so far back in time to help other members of Stampboards, including me. :)

I have already given the stamps above away I think, but I have a few more and will post them tomorrow.

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by stallzer »

I must echo Joel's statement Bennyandersen. Thanks for taking what I am assuming to be a great deal of your time and share your knowledge.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my grandfather did–in his sleep. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car."

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by bennyandersen »

Machaggis52 wrote:Picture snagged from EBay. Genuine?

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This type of stamp from Helgoland was made in two genuine types:
a. the colour dark green combined with yellow frame of the shield (most expensive) and carminelike colour in the crown
b. the colour green combined with brownish yellow frame of shield and carminelike colour of the crown(less expensive)
perforation for both 13,5 x 14,25
Afterwards were made Berlin reprints with perf. like the originals 13,5x14,25 and very, very like the originals in colour. But: the red colour in the crown are red or light red and the perforation is actually too beautiful ! The green colours are the same as in the genuines.
In summary it is very difficult to see the difference without UV light, which is very, very important especially recording to this issue.
But: if I should guess now, without UV light, I think to be looking at Berlin reprints because of the perfect perforation and the red colour in the crowns.
There are also Hamburg reprints, which are easily examined because of perforation 14x14.
The six stamps are beautiful, even if they should appear to be reprints after UV light examination.

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by joelk »

Hi Bennyandersen,

I am posting my remaining Heligoland here, hoping of course to have your expert opinion.

Thank you again so much for your time and expertise in helping everyone here. Please reply only if you have the time and inclination to do so.

Best Regards,
Joel.



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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by bennyandersen »

joelk wrote:Hi Bennyandersen,

I am posting my remaining Heligoland here, hoping of course to have your expert opinion.

Thank you again so much for your time and expertise in helping everyone here. Please reply only if you have the time and inclination to do so.

Best Regards,
Joel.



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From the top, there are 6 lines:
1. line: a. as I said before I think not genuine. To be sure: messure the perforation, if 14x14 it is a Hamburg reprint, if 13,5x14,25 you must use UV light, in the original the crown´s red colour will turn lilac, red-violet or at least very dark carmine, and green colour will turn darkgrey to almost black. b is not genuine
Line 2: a not genuine. b looks genuine. The colours looks good. Try the perforation, if 13,5x14,25 and the paper is mesh-type, then it is genuine. Mesh-paper (paper made in quadrilles) is easily seen if you take the stamp close up to a simple lampe (kitchen, a lampe to read under, and so on). If not mesh-paper, then it goes in the not-genuine way ! The thin outer frame of the double-frame surrounding the queen-picture is broken, and that is normally a sign of not-genuine.
Let me hear what you find.
Line 3: a and b not genuine
Line 4: a genuine, b not genuine
Line 5: a genuine, if perforation 13,5x14,25. If you want extra security, then look for mesh-paper, which is very clearly seen in this type. And it must be there to be original. b not genuine
Line 6: a and b not genuine

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by joelk »

Thank you very much Bennyandersen!

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by kushti »

Hi Benny,
I am assuming (of course) that these are all bogus, but i remain curious as to when and why someone might have chosen to stick a large violet R on each of them

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by bennyandersen »

Dear kushti !
1. line: Both are not genuine
2. line:Nr 1 is clearly not genuine. Nr 2 is also not genuine in my opinion, but there is a very, very little chance that I am wrong. Only if the paper is "quadrille", that is mesh-paper, seen very easily in close front of any simple lamb, then it is genuine. But I don´t think so !
Let me hear.
Best regards
Benny Andersen

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by bennyandersen »

bennyandersen wrote:Dear kushti !
1. line: Both are not genuine
2. line:Nr 1 is clearly not genuine. Nr 2 is also not genuine in my opinion, but there is a very, very little chance that I am wrong. Only if the paper is "quadrille", that is mesh-paper, seen very easily in close front of any simple lamb, then it is genuine. But I don´t think so !
Let me hear.
Best regards
Benny Andersen
Dear kushti again !
I did not mean lamb, but lampe !
Benny

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by kushti »

Thanks for your great advice Benny, I tried this and number 4 is indeed on mesh paper, quite unlike the other three.
I assumed that the 'R' handstamp was for reprint. Any ideas about that?

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by bennyandersen »

kushti wrote:Thanks for your great advice Benny, I tried this and number 4 is indeed on mesh paper, quite unlike the other three.
I assumed that the 'R' handstamp was for reprint. Any ideas about that?
dear kushti ! I am glad to be able to help and congratulation with one genuine ! Many collectors have none ! Regarding to the "R" on the stamps. I think that it ia either
a. an owner description
or (more paobably)
b. a sign for "right", that is correct, genuine, put on by someone, who thougt that they were genuines. I am sorry to tell you, that the value of the genuine one will go down by the inscription, but nevertheless the stamp is collectable.
Best regards
Benny Andersen

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by bennyandersen »

kushti wrote:Thanks for your great advice Benny, I tried this and number 4 is indeed on mesh paper, quite unlike the other three.
I assumed that the 'R' handstamp was for reprint. Any ideas about that?
Dear kushti !
I have looked at your stamps again and I think we shall look a little more at stamp nr 1 in line 2. The colours are as in reprints. The most important colour (for most of the Helgoland stamps) is the colour in the four corners around the queen-picture. When we are dealing with
colours in the red direction, the colours will normally be somw sort of carmine (dark carmine, rec carmine, lilac carmin, violet carmine and so on). This stamp (nr 6 in Michel catalogue) is made in 8 (!!) types, 2 types with mesh-paper (but your light-examination showed no mesh) and 6 types with rather thick, a little greyish soft woven paper. The red colour in the corners of 7 of the 8 types are (as usually) of some sort of the carmine type. BUT: one type (Michel 6 d) has a rose-like colour and in fact a frame of rather light yellowish green colour, as seen in your stamp ! But do not be too happy too soon ! The genuine type of this is the second most rare of the series, so your chance is not big !
Now you do the following:
a. make a messure of the perforation. If 14 x 14 it is a Hamburg reprint. If 13,5 x 14,25 let me know, because then we must use UV light. If it should be necessary, I will try to guide you. Let me hear.
Best regards Benny

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by kushti »

Benny, the perfs do indeed appear to be one side just over 14 and one definitely under. I don't know where I would access a UV light, and what I would be looking for.
These stamps were in a collection I inherited as a young lad, 40 years ago, that I have just returned to. There were quite a few 19th century examples, but I appreciate that the replicas were almost contemporary.

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by bennyandersen »

kushti wrote:Benny, the perfs do indeed appear to be one side just over 14 and one definitely under. I don't know where I would access a UV light, and what I would be looking for.
These stamps were in a collection I inherited as a young lad, 40 years ago, that I have just returned to. There were quite a few 19th century examples, but I appreciate that the replicas were almost contemporary.
Dear kushti ! I think we can make it without UV light. The lower side is with fine perforation (I think to see a single tooth bent above, but otherwise ok) and the measurement should be exactly ! 13,5. If it seems to be around 13,75 it means, that it normally will be 14 (and reprint). The right long-side seems to be rather good to measure and should be 14,25. But it is often difficult to find the difference between 14 and 14,25. On the other side it is normally rather easy to measure the small to either 13,5 or 14, there is a good deal of difference. Try again and let me hear.
Best regards Benny

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by kushti »

Yes, the bottom edge is exactly 13.5, and the long side a little over 14. Definitely not right for a Berlin reprint.

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by bennyandersen »

kushti wrote:Yes, the bottom edge is exactly 13.5, and the long side a little over 14. Definitely not right for a Berlin reprint.
Dear kushti. A Berlin reprint is also !! with perforation 13,5 x 14,25. That is the problem. The Hamburg reprint is 14x14, which we do not have here, the Leipzig print also has 13,5x14,25 but the holes between the teeth are small. Yours have normal holes, as I see it.
Therefore:
It is
either a reprint Berlin, 2.nd edition, which is rare ! Only 5000 pieces are made
or a genuine one, which is also rare, only 10000 pieces are made.
After this examination and without UV light I would see it as a genuine one ! Unfortunately the perforation is not perfect, but still it is collectable.
If you once get or borrow a UV lampe, then let me hear from you and I will try to guide you.
Best regards Benny

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by kushti »

Thanks for all your help on this Benny, it is much appreciated. I'll get hold of a UV light in the next couple of days and get back to you.

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by kushti »

Ok Benny, I got hold of a UV light as you suggested, and this is what I see. The green block around the head goes very dark, almost black, while the rose coloured corners go even lighter, a pale pink colour. The green writing around the edge doesn't go as dark as the block in the middle, i would describe it as violet.

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by bennyandersen »

kushti wrote:Ok Benny, I got hold of a UV light as you suggested, and this is what I see. The green block around the head goes very dark, almost black, while the rose coloured corners go even lighter, a pale pink colour. The green writing around the edge doesn't go as dark as the block in the middle, i would describe it as violet.
dear kushti ! the best answer now will be, that you are dealing with an original, number 6 xd in catalogue Michel. It is a rather seldom stamp (I do not have it myself and therefore my prior doubts). If it was without falls, the price would have been about 600 EURO.
Best regards
Benny Andersen

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by kushti »

Well, thank you Benny, a big surprise to me as I had always assumed these stamps were all valueless reprints.

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Helgoland/Heligoland stamps, genuine or reprints?

Post by maxmium »

I'm just a beginner and these stamps i cant figure out.
Somebody here got more experience with these stamps?

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13 3/4 x 14 1/4
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14 1/4x13 3/4
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14 1/4x13 3/4
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14x14
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14 1/4x13 3/4
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Roulled
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14 1/4x13 3/4
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14 1/4x13 3/4
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14x14
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14 1/4x 13 3/4
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14 1/4x13 3/4
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14x14
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Re: Helgoland/Heligoland stamps, genuine or reprints?

Post by Magnus »

Hello!
When I checked my Helgoland stamps I had a good help from : http://www.fritzwagner.com/helgoland/robert_pollard_heligoland.html.
It takes some effort but was good learning.
Happy new year.
Magnus

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Re: Heligoland stamps : discussion of reprints and fakes

Post by GlenStephens »

maximum - please use common sense and only add about 5 or 6 images per post if you really expect anyone to assist, and NUMBER each one, so that they can.

A huge number of scans like you have loaded, with no ID on any of them, confuses everyone.

Admin

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Re: Helgoland/Heligoland stamps, genuine or reprints?

Post by bennyandersen »

maxmium wrote:I'm just a beginner and these stamps i cant figure out.
Somebody here got more experience with these stamps?

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13 3/4 x 14 1/4
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14 1/4x13 3/4
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14 1/4x13 3/4
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14x14
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14 1/4x13 3/4
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Roulled
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14 1/4x13 3/4
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14 1/4x13 3/4
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14x14
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14 1/4x 13 3/4
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14 1/4x13 3/4
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14x14
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Dear Helgoland collector !
First a question: are you sure about your measuring of the perforation of the stamps ?
There are 2 possibilities: either
13 1/2 of the small sides and 14 1/4 of the long sides, or
14 of the small sides and 14 of the long sides
A genuine perforated stamp is always perforated 13 1/2 on the small side and 14 1/4
on the long side, but many not genuine stamps also have this range.
If perforation 14 x 14 it is always a not genuine one, a Hamburg reprint, the commonest reprint together with Leipzig reprint, but Leipzig reprint have 13 1/2 x 14 1/4 (although the single tooth of the stamp often is different shaped, more broad).
In your list you only have listed one stamp as 13 1/2 x 14 1/4, but the others either 14 x 14 (a Hamburg reprint) or 14 1/4 x 13 3/4, which is not !! possible for a Helgoland stamp ! If you are sure about 14 1/4 x 13 3/4, ! am sure that you are dealing with 14 x 14, that is Hamburg reprints. But you could have named the perforation "upside-down", that is that you are dealing with 13 3/4 x 14 1/4, and that is so near 13 1/2 x 14 1/4 that I think we are dealing with a fault in measuring.
Before I know other things about the perforation, I will regard your 12 stamps as follows, counting 3 lines from above, and each line with a, b, c and d.
Line 1:
a. it looks genuine ! The perforation is correct, the green colour and the nearly carmine corners are correct. If the paper is the mesh-type (easily seen in front of a simple lampe from the back of the stamp, where the paper is seen built up i tiny quadrilles, make a controle with any other of your Helgoland stamps listed below and you will not have any doubt). If not mesh paper, I still will regard it as genuine (6 types without mesh paper and 2 types with mesh paper)
b. not genuine, the colours are wrong
c. not genuine, the colours wrong
d. not gnuine, the colours wrong and definitely the perforation 14 x 14, a hamburg reprint
line 2:
a. not genuine, wrong colours, the quadrille frame around the picture with the head is ueneven and broken
b. not genuine, the roullating is wrong, colours wrong and most important: the head is type III and should be type I
c. not genuine, wrong colours
d. it looks genuine, the right colours, but what about the perforation. If you still means 14 1/4 x 13 3/4, it is for sure a Hamburg reprint. If you try again and find 13 3/4 - 13 1/2 x 14 1/4, then I would consider it as genuine. If you try UV light (long or short wave), then the green colour will remain dark-green or go to dark grey and the red colour will remain dark rec/carmine
Line 3:
a. not genuine, this value was never perforated in the genuine type
b. the worst Helgoland stamp to examine ! I think it is not genuine , and it is for sure not genuine (a Hamburg reprint), if you cannot change your perforation measuring. If you got a normal measuring of the perforation, then you must use UV light. The green colour will go darkgreen to darkgrey or even black, but the most important is the red colour in the crown: it will go dark red/carmine to lilac/dark lilac
c. OBS: this is an interesting stamp, and perfect learning for you ! It is genuine ! although in rather bad condition. There were made no reprints of this stamp ! The annullation also looks ok for me. Therefore: you have measured the perforation to 14 1/4 x 13 3/4, but this is not !! possible ! As I said earlier: I think you have written the measure "upside-down".
d. not genuine, this stamp was never made with perforation in the genuine one.

This is the result of the jury !
Best regards
Benny Andersen

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1873 Heligoland. Genuine? Value?

Post by igorferum »

Welcome! Help determine if this is a genuine stamp. If stamp is now worth as much as genuine.

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Re: 1873 Heligoland. Genuine? Value?

Post by europhil »

Line perf, so clearly not original. Probably a Hamburg reprint.

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Re: 1873 Heligoland. Genuine? Value?

Post by igorferum »

Dear friends! Please show the original stamp.

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Re: 1873 Heligoland. Genuine? Value?

Post by europhil »

Images here - http://helgolandstamps.com/

More info here (but site is difficult to navigate) -
http://www.fritzwagner.com/helgoland/helgoland_stamps_intro.html

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Re: Heligoland stamps. Discussion of reprints, fakes & forge

Post by Global Administrator »

Great answers Benny. :)

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Re: Heligoland stamps. Discussion of reprints, fakes & forge

Post by bennyandersen »

igorferum wrote:Welcome! Help determine if this is a genuine stamp. If stamp is now worth as much as genuine.

Image
igorferum wrote:Welcome! Help determine if this is a genuine stamp. If stamp is now worth as much as genuine.

Image
Dear igorferum !
a. the perforation: there are large perforation holes as in genuine stamps. This stamp has in fact large holes. But: if you look carefully, the perforation ends badly in the lower left corner, which is normally a sign of a reprint. Therefore, regarding to this I would say a new-print and probably the Hamburg type, the commonest reprint (a few millions were made). Leipzig reprints have small holes, which we are not dealing with here. Berlin reprints (which are not very common) have also normal perforation holes, but the perforation ends most often with normal corners, in fact Berlin reprints are normally more beautiful
perforated thann genuine ones !
IF THE PERFORATION IS 14 X 14 IT IS A HAMBURG NEW-PRINT, IF THE PERFORATION IS
13 1/2 x 14 1/4, WE MUST GO ON AS BELOW !
b. in this stamp-type UV-light gives not much and I normally does not use it for this Helgoland number
c. the colour difference is not of much value in this stamp, there are differences but best seen if you have more lined up side to side
d. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING (beside the perforation mentioned above) IS THE PAPER-TYPE !! The paper in the genuines are socalled "quadrille", that is the paper is built up by a sort of very, very small streams of paper, which cross each other making very small quadrations. It is very easily seen, if you hold the stamp close to a simple lamp, looking from the backside. You will see those small quadrille in a genuine stamp, but not all in any reprint.
Let me hear your result.
Best regards
Benny Andersen

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Heligoland stamps - real or fake postmarks?

Post by kor_nick »

Hi,

I have these two nice envelops, but I could not find postmarks like this...
Can anyone help me to judge it as original or fake?

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Image

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Re: Heligoland stamps - real or fake postmarks?

Post by PBR »

kor_nick,

here are two links with some information on Heligoland cancels:

http://www.fritzwagner.com/helgoland/cancels/helgoland_cancels.html
http://www.fritzwagner.com/helgoland/cancels/helgoland_cancels.html#LS

To me, yours look quite strange :?

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Re: Heligoland stamps - real or fake postmarks?

Post by kor_nick »

thanks pbr. nice sites.
anyone else?
Are these cancels fake?

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Re: Heligoland stamps. Discussion of reprints, fakes & forge

Post by admin »

Cancels at first glance do not appear convincing to me.

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Re: Heligoland stamps - real or fake postmarks?

Post by bennyandersen »

kor_nick wrote:Hi,

I have these two nice envelops, but I could not find postmarks like this...
Can anyone help me to judge it as original or fake?

Image

Image
Dear mr kor-nik.
About your two letters, I can say the following:
a. the 2 Pfenning stamp on the upper envelope has rather nice perforation, in fact too nice, and the colour does not look like the colour of an original. I will regard it as being a Berlin reprint. Further more the annullation is a fake. No annullation used in relation to Heligoland
stamps looks like this.
In summary: the whole thing is a fake. I am sorry.
b. the 2 Pfennig on the lower envelope looks like a Leipzig reprint: the perforation has broad teeth with small holes, the colours look rather "genuine", but the perforation goes in the reprint-direction. The other stamp on the envelope 3 Farthings/5 Pfennig is genuine but is now damaged (together with the 2 Pfennig reprint) by the false annullation ! There was a quadratus "box-annullation" used somtimes in Heligoland, but the middle of the box had quite another inscription than the one, we see here, and further more the box had exact equally longiness of the responding sides (left/right and up/down).
In summary: one stamp is genuine, but destroyed by a false annullation, and the other stamp is false and much more false by the fake annullation.
Best regards Benny Andersen, Denmark

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Re: Heligoland stamps. Discussion of reprints, fakes & forge

Post by kor_nick »

bennyandersen, what an answer! thanks very much!
So I own a fakes, happens :)

Best regards

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Re: Heligoland stamps. Discussion of reprints, fakes & forge

Post by afsec9 »

I have a Heligoland embossed piece. I am wondering if it is a fake or cut from an envelope? Although from my 50 years of collecting US squares, I think the paper is very thin to be cut from an envelope. Do we know if there were proofs for embossed envelopes that were produced?

http://s790.photobucket.com/user/Scott_Simon/media/67e30cdb- ... state=copy

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Re: Heligoland stamps. Discussion of reprints, fakes & forge

Post by bennyandersen »

afsec9 wrote:I have a Heligoland embossed piece. I am wondering if it is a fake or cut from an envelope? Although from my 50 years of collecting US squares, I think the paper is very thin to be cut from an envelope. Do we know if there were proofs for embossed envelopes that were produced?

http://s790.photobucket.com/user/Scott_Simon/media/67e30cdb- ... state=copy
Dear afsec9: I am a collector of stamps from Helgoland for many years. I also have a few of this type, printed directly on the envelope and cut off. As I know, most collectors do not go for this type of print, unless we are dealing with the whole envelope and best, if the envelope is also annullated. A genuine annullated envelope with this print have almost the same value as a normal envelope with a normal and genuine annullated stamp (auction price will be between 35-40 EURO, that is about 50 US-dollars). Your print could be genuine (with little value), but I think it is a fake because the paper and the colour, which look too bright to me. But: genuine or fake, cut out of the envelope the value is small.
Best regards Benny Andersen, Denmark

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Re: Heligoland stamps. Discussion of reprints, fakes & forge

Post by afsec9 »

I had all the same suspicions, too. Thank you Benney. I appreciate your thoughts.

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Re: Heligoland stamps. Discussion of reprints, fakes & forge

Post by johnrcrow »

Just seen this excellent thread. Opportune as I am looking at Heligoland stamps.

Laziness and lack of expertise means I will post some for comments. Will of course supply UV data and backs/paper if anything looks promising.

I see that experts here are able to diagnose stamps from fronts mainly.

Thank you in advance for any attempts at ID!

I love the different shapes of her nose!!



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Re: Heligoland stamps. Discussion of reprints, fakes & forge

Post by bennyandersen »

Dear johnrcrow !

We will start with the simple answers, then I will take a pause and return later today or tomorrow !

No 1. Is a fake. The paper-colour too white and most important: there is no ridge ! A ridge is a very thin grayish-black line surrounding the whole stamp, situated in the thin area between the outer frame-line of the stamp and the 4 paper-ends of the stamps 4 sides. The ridge is made during the fabrication of the stamp and will never be seen i not-genuine stamps.

No 2. Is a fake, the same problem: no ridge and too white paper.

No 3. Is a fake, no ridge and here the cutting is wrong, the sides are too sharp.

No 4. Ia a fake, the paper to white, the cutting too sharp and most important: no ridge, unfortunately.

No 5. Is a fake, no ridge, the paper too white.

No 6. I will return !

No 7. I will return !

No 8. I will return !

No 9. Hurra ! It is a genuine ! And looks nice. This value is ALWAYS genuine ! No reprints were made. It is not dramatically expensive, but it is good to have a genuine Helgoland stamp.

No 10. Hurra ! It is genuine ! And also looks nice. The value is not a fortune, but anyway: genuine and good to have for a collector of Helgoland !

No 11. I will return !

No 12. I will return !

No 13. Is a fake. The paper too white, but most important: the inner thin frame-line surrounding the green and lilac picture is too coarse. If I had doubts, I had other things to examine, but I feel sure, so no need to make further examinations, I am sorry.

No 14. Is a fake, the colours wrong, but just to look at the perforation will give us the answer: the teeth are too broad, the holes between two teeth are too small compared with normal perforation and specially look at the corners: the left upper corner and the right lower corner end wrong compared to a normal regular perforation. Therefore: a reprint.

No 15. Hurra ! Is genuine ! This type is ALWAYS genuine ! It looks nice, not very expensive, but a good stamp.

No 16. I will return !

Now the time in Denmark is 0.50, that is a little over midnight, bed-time and enough for now. Congratulation with the genuines, maybe we will find a few more when I return tomorrow.

But tomorrow you will have to work with the rest of the above-standing stamps. They are of the types, where it will be necessary to look at the perforation, the paper-type and also UV-light examination.

Sleep well until next mail from me.

Benny Andersen, Denmark

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Re: Heligoland stamps. Discussion of reprints, fakes & forge

Post by Global Administrator »

johcrow - please ***NEVER* post 15 images in a row in a general thread.

The thread will take an hour to load for those with slow connections.

FIVE images per post is normal except for Sales Forums where threads only got for 1 or 2 posts not 50 a page.

Make 3 posts, but NEVER 15 images in 1 post please.

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