Help with ID of these Australia private company perfin stamps?

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

.
Re the comment about the "8 possible positions" of patterns:

[this number arises because there are 2 ways the stamps can be seen "normal" from the face (normal or inverted), 2 ways they can be seen "normal" from the back (normal or inverted), and 2 ways they can be positioned sideways (left or right).]

The OS, VG and G/NSW perforators punched a row (of a pane or of a sheet) at a single strike. The position of the stamps depended on how the operator positioned the pane (or sheet) of stamps under the punch head (8 possible positions, as above).

Small perforators used by companies, had fewer dies - mostly a single die but there were ones with 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or 12 dies. Some of those with 4, 6, or 12 dies were arranged in blocks - 2 x 2, 2 x 3, 2 x 6. All are found with the dies in a single row.

Depending on the arrangement of the dies, the operator separated the sheets into either single rows/columns or large blocks, and these were then fed under the punch head. Where the dies were in blocks, the row spacing and column spacing was designed to match the dimensions of the stamps, so it would have been unusual for these to have produced sideways strikes.

There is one notable exception to the above. Anthony Hordern & Sons had 2 perforators - one for KGV postage stamps, and the other for NSW duty stamps, both made by Slopers of London. The one for postage stamps had 30 dies in 10 rows of 3 per row.

The one for duty stamps had 50 dies in 5 rows of 10 per row. There are no obvious differences between any of the dies. The specification was for each perforator to be able to punch 5 sheets at a time!
.
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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

Another 5-

I put up one of these before. It was FINNEYS.1. Not sure whether this is different

Image

Image

I only have 2 of these, so have put them both- K

Image

Image

Image

Image

NH

Image

Image

CSR- Presumably Colonial sugar Refining

Image

Image
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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

Australian Perfin FINNEYS.1
Australian Perfin FINNEYS.1






Both K´s the same.
Australian Perfin K
Australian Perfin K









Australian Perfin HN
Australian Perfin HN






Australian Perfin CSR.1
Australian Perfin CSR.1

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

Johncrow,

Thanks again. There are problems with a couple of the dates for HN.5 and K.4. Both are 1d reds. They weren't issued till July 1914, so HN 1904-13-? and 1927-49 for K.4 is possible, but fairly unlikely.
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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

The K maybe then K5 as this matches the dates of you stamp better Used 1913 to 1948... a wide usage time.

One problem with Mathews is that no sizes are given. The K4 and K5 are very similar but appear to be slightly different in size and hole diameter in diagrams. A vertical measure would be great.


Here is an example from German perfin group showing number of dots (Anzahl) as well as the height (Höhe) in mm. Note front and back views shown. Seems a few companies used this easy K!


Sample of German perfin presentation of data.
Sample of German perfin presentation of data.

The HN is then probably HN.3 used 1902 to 1920. However there are a few more holes missing....I put the in as below.

Again sizing would be handy.


v0DOfwT.jpg
Over to Happy for this one.

John

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

.
Greetings, mobbor, johnrcrow et al,

The K is K.5, based on height and date (not K.4 or K.8)

The HN is HN.5 with one pin missing, as pointed out by johnrcrow. The issue date of the stamp will amend the last known usage date to at least 1914.

The issue date of a perfinned stamp can always push the usage end date to the right, but never push the earliest date to the left.
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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

Thanks HAPPY_stamps for clarifying matters.

So Mobbor has a ´date amending` perfin. Well done.

John

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

Thanks again. And you really don't know which business HN was?
mobbor

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

No business given in Mathews at least. However we have through this link:


https://www.perfins.com.au/OZ-Revenue-Perfins/Victoria-Revenue-H-Perfins.html


User: Holdensonn & Nielson

Dairy Produce Merchants

Address: 521 Flinders St, Melbourne, VIC

Revenue Use:

1886-1899 Series, inscribed 'STAMP DUTY' 1d (shades)

1902 Series 6d (Bistre)

Rarity Scale:

1886-1899 Series 1d R4

1902 Series 6d R4

Background: *Poul Jorgen Holdenson was born in February 1863, in Jutland, Denmark, where his parents ran a dairy farm. In 1879, at the age of 16, Holdenson left for Victoria with his brother and a school friend, Andreas Jepsen Nielson (born 1861).

The trio initially tried their hand at gold digging, but Holdenson soon found more rewarding work as a farm labourer. Moving to Melbourne, he bought a restaurant which he renovated and turned into a thriving business. Using the money from the sale of the restaurant, he bought a stall at Melbourne’s Eastern Market where he sold wholesale produce.

In 1886, Andreas Nielson returned to Melbourne and suggested they form a partnership focusing on dairy produce. Trading as Holdenson & Nielson, at 75-76 Eastern market, Melbourne, the business collected cream from milk-skimming stations set up in country areas, rapidly expanding to take “consignments of dairy produce of all descriptions”.

In 1889, the company moved to premises in Flinders Lane, which soon proved too small. By 1897 Holdenson & Nielson had moved to a large, 3 storey building at No. 3 Farm & Dairy Produce Markets in Flinders St, (nos. 521-527 Flinders St,near King St) which included the city factory and refrigerating works. The firm advertised as agents for the intercolonial markets and shipments of butter and cheese to London and oversea ports.

In the 1890s, Holdenson & Nielson also acted as agents for dairy farm sales and manufactured award winning butter brands. The company expanded throughout Victoria, (especially in west Gippsland) buying up small, country butter factories and building new factories. (In 1910, John Monash would be the engineer for the new Lake Boga Butter factory).

The company introduced new technology to the Victorian dairy industry as sole agents of Burmeister & Wain of Copenhagen, manufacturers of the new ‘Perfect’ cream separator (1901) and ‘Perfect’ pasteuriser (1905) and as agents for Newtons Ltd (England) ‘AB’ oil engines for driving dairying machines. In 1907, Holdenson & Nielson, as sole Victorian agents, introduced and installed the new ‘Hartnett’ milking machines.

By 1905, Holdenson & Nielson was the largest butter manufacturer in Melbourne. In 1908, Holdenson acquired the business of Fresh Foods & Frozen Storage Pty Ltd resulting in the “amalgamation of two of the leading butter manufacturers and trading institutions in Melbourne”. The new company traded (from 1 July, 1905) under the style of Holdenson & Nielson Fresh Food Pty Ltd at 521-527 Flinders St Melbourne, with P.J. Holdenson as managing director.

Holdenson & Nielson Fresh Food Pty Ltd was still trading under this style in 1956, but would later become part of the Petersville business.

Andreas Nielson left Australia due to ill health (possibly tuberculosis) for Switzerland in 1902. He died in Davos, in December, 1903, at the age of 42.

Paul John Holdenson died at his daughter’s home in Sydney in March, 1948, aged 85. A well-known philanthropist, he was founder and president of the Danish- Australian Chamber of Commerce, a member of the Melbourne Chamber of Commerce, periodically president of the Danish Club between 1911 and 1942, held board positions on various industrial and mining companies and was for many years Danish Consul General in Victoria.

Device: The HN.a pattern is made from a temporary die in a single die format. Such devices, which could produce these temporary patterns, were used by some Stamp Vendors in Melbourne from late 1800’s and early part of the 20th Century.

There are 3 main settings of the HN.a pattern and they differ in the separation between the H and the N. However only one setting is reported on revenue stamps, which is most likely due to this usage being much less common than use on postage stamps.

The pattern is reported in its various layouts over the period 1901 until 1903.

The company were frequent users of temporary perfin patterns with at least 15 HN and at least 5 H&N patterns reported over the period 1896 until 1930. Only a few of these are reported on revenue stamps.

Related Patterns: Refer to other Holdenson & Nielson patterns in:

VIC: H&N.a, H&N.b

John

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

First, I forgot to add the rarity for K.5 - it is "Common".

# # # # #

Re HN:

The link cited by "johnrcrow" only lists perfins which the authors have seen on revenue stamps. There are some "HN" and "H&N", but not the pattern shown by "mobbor". However, it is reasonable to suspect that all "HN" and "H&N" Victorian Service Punctures were done for the same firm. The user name is actually "Holdenson & Nielsen" - note spelling. They were dairy produce merchants at the time of their use of perfins.

H_s

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by castores »

I posted this elsewhere in StampBoards:

A - Atlas Assurance Co Australia. Sydney
A.H /&S - Anthony Horden & Sons, Sydney
AC / &Co - Arthur Cocks & Co. Ltd, Sydney
ACo - Alliance Insurance Co. Ltd, Sydney
AC/S - Adelaide Co-operative Society, Adelaide
A+R - Angus & Robertson Ltd, Sydney
AS / &S - A. Simpson & Sons, Adelaide
BE/Co - Bagots Executor & Trustee Co. Ltd. Adelaide
B/Ltd. - Boans Ltd, Perth
BP - Burns, Philp & Co. Ltd, Townsville
BW / &Co - Burroughs Wellcome & Co. , Sydney
CMF - Colonial Mutual Fire Insurance Co., Melbourne
DJ / Ltd - David Jones Ltd, Sydney
ED - Edward Dunlop & Co, Brisbane
ED&CoLTD - Edward Dunlop & Co, Sydney
EF / Ld - Edward Fay Ltd, Sydney
E.S - Elder Smith & Co., Adelaide
E.T. - Eliza Tinsley, Melbourne
ET - Elders Trustee & Executor Co. Ltd, Adelaide
F - Farmers Ltd, Sydney
FG - Farmers and Graziers Co-op Agency, Sydney
FN/Co - Farleigh, Nettheim Pty Ltd, Sydney
GB - Gibbs, Bright & Co, Adelaide
GDM - Goode, Durant & Murray, Perth
G.O./&Co. - Glover, Onians & Co, Melbourne
GR/W - G&R Wills Co, Adelaide
GW/A - Geo. Wills & Co Ltd, Adelaide
HB / &Co - Henry Berry & Co, Adelaide
H / LTD - Harringtons Ltd, Sydney
HS / . - Harris Scarfe & Co, Adelaide
HSLd - Howard Smith & Co, Sydney
IH - International Harvester, Brisbane
IH(C) - International Harvester Co., Melbourne
I.O.A. - Insurance Office of Australia, Melbourne
I.O.A - Insurance Office of Australia, Sydney
JD /&Co - John Dickinson & Co, Sydney
J.K/S - John Kitchen & Sons, Bendigo
K - Kodak Ltd. Melbourne
K - Kodak Ltd. (Abbotsford, Melbourne, Perth)
L.L - London & Lancashire Insurance Co. Melbourne
LLG - London & Lancashire Insurance Co. Sydney
McK/&Co - JF McKenzie & Co., Melbourne
NA / SC - Nestles & Anglo Swiss Milk Co. Melbourne
NA / SC - Nestles & Anglo Swiss Milk Co, Perth
NS / GCo - North Shore Gas Co, Sydney
NZL - New Zealand Loan & Mercantile Co. Sydney
PA/C - Prudential Assurance Co. Sydney
P.D/Co. - Parke, Davis & Co. Ltd, Rosebery
PL / &B - Patterson, Laing & Bruce, Sydney
RH - Raine & Horne, Sydney
RI/Co/Ld - Royal Insurance Co. Ltd. (Adelaide, Brisbane)
S&A - Swallow & Ariell, Melbourne
SG - Sargood, Gardiner Ltd. Melbourne
SH / & / CoLtd - S. Hoffnung & Co. Ltd. Brisbane & Sydney
TB - Melbourne & Metropolitan Tramway Board
T.B.S - Thomas Brown & Sons, Brisbane
TYS / Ld - Tooheys Ltd. Sydney
VOCo - Vacuum Oil Co. Melbourne
VO/Co - Vacuum Oil Co. Port Adelaide
VO/Co - Vacuum Oil Co. Sydney
VP / C - Victorian Producers Cooperative, Melbourne
WILLS - WD & HO Wills (Australia) Ltd
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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by Kainnikanada »

Is this Kodak one listed? 1st watermarked roos.

012.0d Roo.1.30Aa.013-03.99.jpg

012.0d Roo.1.30Aa.014-03.99.jpg
Looking for NSW cut-down relief date stamps, as seen in my avatar, to add to my collection.

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by castores »

Kainnikanada wrote:
27 Aug 2020 14:37
Is this Kodak one listed? 1st watermarked roos.

Image

Image
If this question is in relation to the listing I posted above, I'm sorry Kainnikanada,it is only a list, no pics.

But, I now see a new project in the offing!
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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

Hi Castores,

I am curious.. what other thread did you post your list to? What led you to post the list?

H_s

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

Hi Kainnikanada,

Your KL perfins were used by the Melbourne office of Kodak. It is known used from 1911 to 1935,and is rated "Common".

H_s

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by castores »

HAPPY_stamps wrote:
27 Aug 2020 15:08
Hi Castores,

I am curious.. what other thread did you post your list to? What led you to post the list?

H_s
Hi HAPPY_stamps, nice name...

I went searching through my other posts but couldn't find it and thought it might be easier to just re-post.
I will have a more thorough search.... I was answering a question in regards to David Jones Ltd.
My dad worked as manager at Woden Plaza when it opened, I have a 'Woden Plaza' newspaper somewhere and his photo is in it (opening of the Plaza).

What lead me to the list was the David Jones Ltd. perfin which I had. I think in my original post I may have made mention as to where I found the list.

Thinking back, it may well have been close to my first post....

Hope this satisfies the curiosity :)
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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by castores »

What lead me to the list was the David Jones Ltd. perfin which I had. I think in my original post I may have made mention as to where I found the list.
Actually,
SH / & / CoLtd - S. Hoffnung & Co. Ltd. Brisbane & Sydney
was my original reason for searching out the perfins!

May well be Number 1 post I made!!!
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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

An aside.

Browsing my perfins.

Is this the one with most pins? I count 77!

Anyone with more on an Australian stamp they own?


RH&COPTYLD.1
USED 1906- 1912

Robert Harper & Co Pty Ltd,.
10-12 Flinders Lane,
Melbourne
VIC.
Tea and Coffee Merchants.
Uncommon (I have 4)

RH&COPTYLD.1 PERFIN
RH&COPTYLD.1 PERFIN





rh stamp front.png

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by castores »

johnrcrow wrote:
27 Aug 2020 21:52
An aside.

Browsing my perfins.

Is this the one with most pins? I count 77!
It's not in my list above and it beats them all!
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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

The Australian perfin pattern with the highest number of holes is L. & L. & G./INSURANCE/Co.1. It has 166 holes (Liverpool & London & Globe Insurance Co.)

This perfin is known on both postage and revenue stamps, and its original purpose may have been for the latter. It would cover a block of 3x2 of the stamps in use at the time.

The highest number of holes for a GB perfin which fits onto a single stamp is said to be the elaborate perfin H/&Co/Ld in a fancy frame (GB catalogue number H1615.01), identified with Humber & Co. Ltd., Bicycle and Tricycle manufacturers. It has 133 holes. A complete strike of this die will remove a full 5% of the stamp !

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by castores »

Oops, we all make mistakes.... It's owning up that counts.
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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

Nice info HAPPY_stamps

The 166 hole monster must be a good find. I assume I am not going to find a block easily.

Anyone with a single stamp (part perfin) of this ? Or the whole thing?

A far cry from the 3 hole Hungarian perfins.


https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=10733&p=271 ... s#p2713939


John

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

One German perfin catches my eye, speaking of lowest number of dots now....


In symbols (the Germans liked these) here is a truly inspirational design.

One dot...hard to beat.

Artist put the dot off centre at least.

Single hole perfin from Germany (symbols).
Single hole perfin from Germany (symbols).

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

Single stamps with part of the L.&L.&G. Insurance Co perfin are not hard to find, but a complete block requires a lot of luck.

Similarly, the Australian perfin BGE/CoLd also covers a 3x2 block, but the letters are designed to be one to a stamp within the block, that is - B|G|E / C|O (with 2 holes under)|Ld. Many years ago, at a dealer's table at a stamp fair, I found a block with the "Ld" part missing and thought that was like winning a lottery. A year later, different dealer, different stamp fair, I found the matching "Ld" stamp!! Yes, even the stamp issue matched - it was a 6d brown Kangaroo and Map. (It is illustrated on the back cover of the catalogue).

Re the single hole perfin you showed, it would seem not to be a very good security perfin as it would be hard to see from the front among the stamp design, even in a mint stamp?

H_s

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

'Re the single hole perfin you showed, it would seem not to be a very good security perfin as it would be hard to see from the front among the stamp design, even in a mint stamp?'

Did perfins really stop pilfering? There are plenty of examples of mint Gov't perfins. I bought a block of 32 KGV 1½d Die 1 OS/NSW from Glen.
Last edited by mobbor on 29 Aug 2020 05:23, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

This is the only other example of HN I've found so far-

Image

Image

HB

Image

Image

VG&Co

Image

Image

MM

Image

Image

MMICo?

Image

Image
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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

The single hole perfin is a curiosity of course. Hardly a major symbol to stop pilfering. Hard to assess whether perfins did in fact reduce the practice.

As I said it is the ´symbols` category for German perfins ( I am trying to collect these and there re bout 280 different examples).

I wonder if any other country has such pin-meagre attempts?

Here are a few low pin perfins from Germany to allow consideration of the developer´s artistic skills.



Low number of pins in perfins from Germany.
Low number of pins in perfins from Germany.



Maybe most of these (especially first column) are not so easy to see when viewing the stamps from the front, so are difficult ones to obtain, hence scarce.

John

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

This one used from 1898-1951

HB.4   Australian perfin.
HB.4 Australian perfin.











WG&CO.1  Australian perfin.
WG&CO.1 Australian perfin.

John










MM.5 Australian perfin.
MM.5 Australian perfin.











MMICO.2  Australian perfin.
MMICO.2 Australian perfin.

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

Thanks John,

How about the HN? Is it the same as the previous one?
mobbor

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

Missed the HN, sorry.

Not so easy as maybe a pin is missing and line of holes in H is bent.

Looks to be too large for the HN.2 (the height would be nice if given) but fits pattern very well.

So either HN.5 or HN.2 (common) so I will leave it to HAPPY_s to determine.

John


hn.jpg

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

The height of the N & H is about 7½ mm. The cross bar of the N is about 10½ mm (if I've measured them correctly).
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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

Thanks Mobbor. I was indicating that the Mathews might show dimensions to allow better discrimination when perfins have a similar or same pattern. As per German perfin descriptions.

Keep sending.

John

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

Thanks again John. More next Wednesday.
mobbor

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

Greetings, mobbor, and johnrcrow and other viewers!

Yes, this latest HN is HN.5, same as the one you showed on 26 August.

You have noted that the cross-arm of the 'H' is slightly different in the two examples shown. The Victorian Service Punctures were done using a grid (actually there were several different grids) of holes into which the service provider (E. T. Moulden, and others) placed pins for each individual customer in turn.

The rows and columns in the grid were not exactly straight. (If you have a look at the holes in the diagonal of the 'N', you will see that they are not in a straight line.) Depending on where in the grid the pattern was positioned, the "kinks" appeared in different places within the letters, as with these two HN examples.

Such minor "varieties" were not deemed relevant enough to warrant separate listings - and there could be many of them!

# # # # # #

We considered whether or not to include the dimensions of patterns, and decide not to. Measuring with a ruler has limited accuracy anyway. The GB perfin catalogue does not include heights, although I am aware that several European countries' catalogues do, and the USA perfin catalog does - each to the nearest half a millimetre, so not necessarily "exact".

What if the height was actually 7.749 mm, or 7.751 mm? Would the 7.749 be rounded down to 7 1/2 and the 7.751 be rounded up to 8 (the nearest half a millimetre in each case)?

With Australian perfins, customised perforators were nearly all single die. No two companies are likely to have customised patterns so similar to each other that the catalogue would need to specify heights in order to distinguish between them. With the Victorian Service Punctures, the row spacing and column spacing had discrete values for each grid (0.85, 1.0, 1.2, 1.5 or 1.8 mm), so it is easy to distinguish between the same letter combination/arrangement produced by the different grids.

H_s

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

Thanks for the clarifying answer on the HN Happy_s.

As to dimensions, I take your point about measuring. The Australian perfins, I agree, are not so difficult to read for the reasons you point out. Also I like the rarity ratings in that it indicates scarcity. No rarity ratings in German perfin studies.

Do we need a WIKI thread now on Australian perfins? Might throw up some new perfins to extend your excellent handbook.

Has there been a recent upsurge in interest in Australian perfins?




Since we have had a K for Kodak I thought a German attempt would be a nice contrast. The perfin then says it all in 60 pins.

kodak gemany.png


John

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

Here is one from me, to identify, please.




Identity of perfin sought.
Identity of perfin sought.





Perfin in different orientations.
Perfin in different orientations.

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

Here is a ´sister`RH&COPTYLD.1 PERFIN I have top go with Mobbor´s example.

RH&COPTYLD.1 PERFIN front of stamp
RH&COPTYLD.1 PERFIN front of stamp


RH&COPTYLD.1 PERFIN back of stamp
RH&COPTYLD.1 PERFIN back of stamp

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

Hi johnrcrow,

Your "Queen" stamp has perfin LL.3, sideways with top of pattern to left of stamp as seen from the front - many pins missing which is typical for this pattern. It seems that the perforator was never repaired, but continued in use for another 20 years. The user was London & Lancashire Fire Insurance Co., 95 Pitt Street, Sydney. It is rated "common".

# # # # #

I have looked at the images from your posts of 27 August and the latest one. When I place these side by side, the postmarks coincide exactly so it is most probable that they were joined when affixed to the envelope. Also, when I fold that composite image, the strikes coincide exactly so the pair must have been folded when they were perforated. Unfortunately, now that they are separated it is not possible to see evidence of the fold between the edge perforations.

A nice pair!

H_s

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

LL.3. Thanks for that. Pins missing are a problem. I assume no ´new` patterns due to perforator damage are catalogued when there this extensive usage after such damage. Can we study the downfall of any perforating mechanism?

The interesting comment about the 27th post and recent post pair is that they must have been separated before I got them and I placed them different positions on my stock cards. So this was a random selection resulting in your very acute examination. A´lucky`pair.

Perfins are interesting....

John

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

Re post by johnrcrow » 31 Aug 2020 18:30

"I assume no ´new` patterns due to perforator damage are catalogued when there this
extensive usage after such damage."

Not unless a whole letter is "missing", in which case it can be assumed to be deliberate.

# # # # #

"Can we study the downfall of any perforating mechanism?"

Yes; I have tried to do this for a couple of patterns. You need a lot of dated examples.

H_s

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

5 more. I think I only have one copy of each, and they look like poor examples.

1. P? missing pins?

Image

Image

2. TTEA

Image

Image

3. Unsure.

Image

Image

4. No idea

Image

Image

5. Also no idea

Image

Image
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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

Good morning, mobbor (and all).

From similarity to others of same style of 'G' but with extra letters, this is G.6, rated "rare". Known on Commonwealth issues but no known date. User is probably Gippsland & Northern Co-operative Selling Co. 494 Flinders Lane, Melbourne.

TTEA.1, 1898-1927, rated "Very common", The Trustees, Executor & Agency Co., 28 Queen Street, Melbourne.

W&GD.3, 1913-1916, rated "Scarce", W & G Dean & Co., 91 Flinders Lane, Melbourne, oil & colour merchants.

F.1 and F.2, 1924-1940, rated "Common", Farmer & Co., Department store and radio station 2FC.
Lost many pins towards the end of its use. It was a 2-die perforator. Very nice to see the 2 dies together. One of only 4 patterns known used on the 5/- Sydney Harbour Bridge stamp.

SB.5, 1908-1930, rated "Common", S. Bennett, 49 Market Street, Sydney, publisher (newspapers, etc). This was a 12-die perforator - one row, with a gap for the gutter between dies 6 and 7. Your example is die 3 and the 'S' of die 4. Despite it being rated "common", I am still looking for the 'B' of the 12th die! The dies are all distinctly different. The spacing was for the NSW definitive stamps. For the larger KGV issues, the sheets were usually folded in half and dies 7 - 12 were not often used (hence my difficulty in finding the last 'B'!).

H_s

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

Thanks again, John.

It's a pity there's no date on G.6. All I can say is it's not before Aug. 1914. There is a date on W&GD.3- Mar. 1916.
F1 & F2 are single watermark, so somewhere between May 1924 and early 1927.
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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

Thanks for those dates, mobbor.

Re G.6, hand cancellations don't always give a readable year. Slogan cancellations rarely do. At least it has to be the issue date of the stamp or later.

Your other two are consistent with known date ranges.

H_s

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

Five more:-

1. ES&Co Ltd 28 May 27?

Image

Image

2. HLSP

Image

Image

3. JS&Co

Image

Image

4. BP- Burns Philp or British Petroleum?

Image

Image

5. CEL

Image

Image
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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

Hi mobbor,

In the order in your post,

ES&COLTD.2, 1923-1927, rated Very common, Elder Smith & Co Ltd, Perth, stock & station agents.

HSLD.6, 1915-1949, rated Common, Howard Smith Ltd., Sydney, shipping agents.

JS&CO.1, 1912-1920, rated Common, James Sandy & Co, 326 George Street, Sydney, glass merchants.

BP.1, 1907-1955, rated Very common, Burns, Philp & Co, 10 Bridge Street, ship owners & agents.

CEL.1, 1915-1953, rated Uncommon, City Electric Light Co., 59 Ann Street, Brisbane.

Regards,

H_s

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

Thanks again, John.

Your information about ES&COLTD.2 confirms the very late date- 28/5/27.
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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

!. AMPS

Image

Image

2. ED&Co

Image

Image

3. NZIC

Image

Image

4. HI

Image

Image

5. A&S

Image

Image
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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

MY OFFERINGS.

Private Perfin on Australian Postage stamp AMPS
Private Perfin on Australian Postage stamp AMPS








Private Perfin on Australian Postage stamp ED&Co
Private Perfin on Australian Postage stamp ED&Co









Private Perfin on Australian Postage stamp NZIC
Private Perfin on Australian Postage stamp NZIC









Private Perfin on Australian Postage stamp IH
Private Perfin on Australian Postage stamp IH














Private Perfin on Australian Postage stamp S&A
Private Perfin on Australian Postage stamp S&A

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Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

The other one is IH.11, rated "Very common", 1906-1957, user International Harvester Company, Camperdown NSW and Brisbane Qld. Known on State stamps of NSW and Qld, and Commonwealth issues.

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