Help with ID of these Australia private company perfin stamps?

General things you want to know. Stamps you can't identify. Catalogue values you need to establish. Advice on ANYTHING stamp related you want. SOMEONE might be able to help. You can post photos of the stamps right here to assist . NOTE: - We have a nearby Forum for basic questions from *NEW* collectors.

Moderator: Volunteer Moderator Team

User avatar
Barry_E
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
Posts: 1119
Joined: 30 Jan 2011 18:22
Location: Salisbury East , South Australia
Contact:

Re: Help with ID of Australia private perfins

Post by Barry_E »

Nice job, thanks, I see it now.

Although I enjoyed the alternatives better.

Image
.

User avatar
Staples
AQUA Shooting Star Board ADDICT!
AQUA Shooting Star Board ADDICT!
Posts: 584
Joined: 13 Jan 2011 18:38
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Help with ID of Australia private perfins

Post by Staples »

Hi All,

I picked up this cover the other day that I'd like some help with.
Image

It's back stamped "Frank B Bercli / Inventor and Manufacturers Agent / 63 York St, Sydney" and appears to possibly have the private perfin AC :?: :?: :?: What are peoples thoughts? Is it listed?

Image

Image

Image

Thanks

Staples

User avatar
pelmen
I was online for our Birthday Number 3!
I was online for our Birthday Number 3!
Posts: 2690
Joined: 23 Jan 2008 18:43
Location: Canberra
Contact:

Re: Help with ID of Australia private perfins

Post by pelmen »

Staples

I'm seeing (or hallucinating) blind perfs in a couple of other places on the stamp:

- the pointy base of the king's neck
- the base of the "P" in "POSTAGE"
- the feet of "IA" in "AUSTRALIA"
- joining the left edge of the wattle, above (perpendicularly) the last "A" in "AUSTRALIA"

So the AC may possibly be an AO or AG, and there may be a second row to the perfin.

Have you checked the stamp closely in a dark room using a torch shining low across the surface? This might help to highlight the indentations a little better for you. Maybe even shining through from the back might shed light (groan) on the holes.

I would probably get abused for suggesting laying a thin sheet of tracing paper over the top and gently rubbing a small amount of graphite powder over the area of the stamp very softly with your fingertip (not a pencil), so I won't suggest it :)

User avatar
Staples
AQUA Shooting Star Board ADDICT!
AQUA Shooting Star Board ADDICT!
Posts: 584
Joined: 13 Jan 2011 18:38
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Help with ID of Australia private perfins

Post by Staples »

Pelman,

Thank you for your advise. You are definitely not hallucinating, a torch across the surface / bright light behind revealed the following:

Image

However I'm still no closer to working out this puzzle. I'm thinking that below the A could be a & symbol :?:

User avatar
mobbor
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 10681
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 19:10
Location: Northern N.S.W.

Re: Help with ID of Australia private perfins

Post by mobbor »

Staples

I think the symbol below- er, right of A is &. There looks to a blind perf,which just touches the emu's beak & the base of the A. Maybe there's a Co. completely missing.
mobbor

User avatar
Staples
AQUA Shooting Star Board ADDICT!
AQUA Shooting Star Board ADDICT!
Posts: 584
Joined: 13 Jan 2011 18:38
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Help with ID of Australia private perfins

Post by Staples »

Mobbor,

You are quite correct, there is another blind perf hole on the emu's beak which I just forgot to colour :oops:

Hopefully someone with one of the Private Perfin books can provide some possibilities.

Cheers

Staples

User avatar
satsuma
2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
Posts: 3011
Joined: 26 Dec 2015 13:52
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Help with ID of Australia private perfins

Post by satsuma »

Any ideas on these two?

Image

Both on single watermark 4d olive.
The upper right pin placement isn't quite the same on both, so presumably whosever it was did a lot of perfins.

User avatar
Global Administrator
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 58578
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone
Contact:

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by Global Administrator »

Image
Collectors recognise that often EIGHT different positions exist of any perfin. :mrgreen:
.
Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 3243
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

The 2 perfins from satsuma are:

Fancy double lined F and lowered C.

Farmer and company Ltd,
Victoria House ,
George street,
Sydney,
NSW,
Australia.
Department store and radio station


As from Mathews Book on perfins.

Left one is F.1
used 1924 to 1940

Right one is F.2.
used 1924 to 1940.

Both rated common as C.

There is the spotted difference in top right pin height.

So the first two in the F perfins satsuma.

John

User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 3243
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

As I am browsing my lot of Perfins, I add this common one.


Elder Smith and Company Ltd.
27-31 Currie Street
Adelaide.
Stock & station agents.


Used 1901 to 1920.

Mathews ES&COLTD.1

I am amazed as to the number of pins in some perfinated stamps.

I wonder how many were problematic?

This one illustrates high pin number.


Stamp with Perfin Mathews ES&COLTD.1

Image




Back of stamp with Perfin Mathews ES&COLTD.1

Image




Back flipped with Perfin Mathews ES&COLTD.1

Image

User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 3243
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

Back in 2013 this perfin was shown (Barry_E, Feb 11th 2013).


Scan supplied of perfin by Barry_E

Image



Just to show interest (revival) here are the Mathews set for the supplier.

This also shows how the perfins are demonstrated in Mathews.



Image



The original scan then should be flipped vertically to fit the IHC.3 (very common).



Flipped image of perfin IHC.3 on stamp.

Image

User avatar
satsuma
2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
Posts: 3011
Joined: 26 Dec 2015 13:52
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by satsuma »

johnrcrow wrote:The 2 perfins from satsuma are:

Fancy double lined F and lowered C.

Farmer and company Ltd,
Victoria House ,
George street,
Sydney,
NSW,
Australia.
Department store and radio station


As from Mathews Book on perfins.

Left one is F.1
used 1924 to 1940

Right one is F.2.
used 1924 to 1940.

Both rated common as C.

There is the spotted difference in top right pin height.

So the first two in the F perfins satsuma.

John
Thanks John
It's nice to receive informative answers to a seeking help post
Satsuma

User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 3243
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

Thanks for thanks satsuma. The benefit of Stampboard members collective skills (with the knowledge is power books).

John

User avatar
mobbor
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 10681
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 19:10
Location: Northern N.S.W.

A reference for private perfins on Aust. KGV stamps

Post by mobbor »

I couldn't find anything on Stampboards Google search or in the wiki. I'm not particularly interested, but since I've found 100+ in my hoard, I feel I should check them.

Any link or suggestion would be appreciated.
mobbor

User avatar
AMark
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 12405
Joined: 01 Jul 2010 05:39
Location: Canada

Re: A reference for private perfins on Aust. KGV stamps

Post by AMark »

Hi mobbor,

Did a quick search and found this thread which was started by you in 2009.

Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

A reference book that is mentioned in that thread is, the "Handbook of Australian Private Perfins" by John Mathews.
It does pay if you are humble and kind.
Join the October 2020 Cover Exchange ..... OR .... Join the October 2020 Postcard Exchange

User avatar
mobbor
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 10681
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 19:10
Location: Northern N.S.W.

Re: A reference for private perfins on Aust. KGV stamps

Post by mobbor »

Thanks A Mark. I have no memory of that thread whatsoever :oops:
mobbor

User avatar
AMark
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 12405
Joined: 01 Jul 2010 05:39
Location: Canada

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by AMark »

mobbor wrote:
31 Jul 2020 06:43
Thanks A Mark. I have no memory of that thread whatsoever :oops:
You're welcome! :)

Threads have been merged!
It does pay if you are humble and kind.
Join the October 2020 Cover Exchange ..... OR .... Join the October 2020 Postcard Exchange

User avatar
mobbor
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 10681
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 19:10
Location: Northern N.S.W.

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

Thanks again, AMark.

Apparently Clemo's link (Aug. 5, 2009) no longer exists.

Much to my surprise the email address of John Mathews still exists, but he has sold out.

I'm reluctant to ask people to identify them here, so.............any other suggestions?
mobbor

User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 3243
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

I have the Mathews Perfin ´manual`.

I will gladly fulfil any reasonable ID needs. It may push me to ID all of mine as yet untended.

John

User avatar
mobbor
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 10681
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 19:10
Location: Northern N.S.W.

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

Much appreciated Johncrow,

I won't overdo it. Here's the first one:-

Image

F G & Co. It's on a KGV 1d red. No date.
mobbor

User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 3243
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

Looks like a type 1 FG & Co 1 (the ´o`on Co only six dots.


I am assuming that a dot in the type 1 ´G`shown in the diagram is missing? So your example is better.

I flopped it over to be seen as in John Mathews excellent tome..

Austrlian perfin for Identification.
Austrlian perfin for Identification.




Identification of perfin as  FG &amp; CO 1<br /><br />Felton, Grimwade &amp; CO, Ltd. 31-33 Flinders Lane, Melbourne, Pharmaceutical Wholesalers. Common.
Identification of perfin as FG & CO 1

Felton, Grimwade & CO, Ltd. 31-33 Flinders Lane, Melbourne, Pharmaceutical Wholesalers. Common.

User avatar
mobbor
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 10681
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 19:10
Location: Northern N.S.W.

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

Johncrow,

That was quick, and thanks.

As I said, I don't want to overdo it, so I propose to put 5 at a time once a week, and you can deal with them whenever it's convenient. And, no need to reproduce the image from the book. Here are the next 5, all 1d reds, no dates:-

Image

B&N on a very aniline stamp.

Image

GAS.

Image

WILTS?

Image

RA?

Image

Gw
mobbor

User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 3243
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

B & N

There are 25 different B & N all from
Buckley and Nunn
300-310 Bourke St,
Melbourne, VIC

Drapers and Clothiers

Yours is B&N.15
Very common
Used 1907-1946




GAS

Metropolitan Gas Company
196 Flinders St.
Melbourne VIC
Gas reticulation

GAS.3 Uncommon
Used 1913-1942

GAS 2,3 and 4 are similar with different number of dots in the ´S`

In case you find others---
GAS 2, 11 dots (1887-1938)
GAS 3, 12 dots 1913-1942)
GAS 4, 10 dots (11902, 1946-48)



WILLS
wills.png


WILLS.1


Common
Used 1903 -1951
WD & HO Wills (Australia) Ltd.
Melbourne VIC
Tobacco Products

Wills 2 and 3 similar and give an address (511 Kent Street, Sydney NSW).




RA[/u]
ra.png
There are 18 RA.

All from-
Richard Allen & Son,
164 - 168 Flinders L.,
Melbourne VIC.
Clothing, carpets and manchester (I add the ? manchester).

This one has me stumped. Nearest is R.A.4. Rare. Used 1910-1927.

However, there is a dot missing from the 7 dot ´R`. I can find no 6 dot Rs at all.

This one for Mathews.






GW?

Another stumper.

No GW in book remotely like this.

Tried flipping to see whether anything else fitted (WD, AD?, CA, GA) ?, No luck. Another for Mathews (a new find?).

gw mob.png

User avatar
mobbor
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 10681
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 19:10
Location: Northern N.S.W.

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

Thanks Johncrow. I had no idea that it is so complicated. I'll put up another 5 next weekend.
mobbor

User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 3243
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

No problem for me to ID them...Well some of them at least.

John

User avatar
HAPPY_stamps
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
Posts: 42
Joined: 02 Aug 2020 12:06
Location: Canberra Australia

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

mobbor - yours of 1 August 2020 -

RA is RA.4 (one pin missing from angled leg of 'R').

The last one is AD.1. There are minor variations of pin positions which suggests it may be a 2-die perforator. User was Atcherley & Dawson Ltd., 284 George Street, Sydney, tea merchants.(1898-1925)

The others were all correcly identified by "johncrow" - hi, "JohnC"!

User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 3243
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

Thanks for input HAPPY_stamps.

Missing pins do cause problems. Thanks for RA4.. I suspect missing pin for that one.

´AD` then.... pays to invert and toss around the perfins to see what shakes out.

Mobbor will bang in more, so do not be afraid to comment or add to my offerings.


I see you harvested the FG and Co perfin as avatar. Like it.

Keep posting.

John

User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 3243
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

Quick note Happy.. I see you are probably the latest member of SB.

Did you follow the rules and give your input into `Hello All NEW Members - please briefly introduce yourself!`.

If not then please do so otherwise you will probably get a reminder from Admin.

John

User avatar
mobbor
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 10681
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 19:10
Location: Northern N.S.W.

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

Here's the next 5, all 1d reds:-

EB. No date. Postmark Melbourne.
Image


A&R. No date or location evident.
Image


ED&Co 1917. No location.
Image

? No date or location.
Image

? No date. Location- Brisbane.
Image

5 more next weekend. I now realise I should put similar ones together, because they might be different types.
mobbor

User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 3243
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

Here are Perfin IDs.






FINNEYS.1 Perfin.
FINNEYS.1 Perfin.



General Merchants
J&amp;BS. 21 Perfin.
J&BS. 21 Perfin.



EB.1 Perfin.
EB.1 Perfin.



ED&amp;CO.1 Perfin.
ED&CO.1 Perfin.




A&amp;R-1 Perfoin.
A&R-1 Perfoin.

John

User avatar
mobbor
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 10681
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 19:10
Location: Northern N.S.W.

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

That was very quick. Thank you, again.
mobbor

User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 3243
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

Just happened to be between dog walks....the story of my life.

Glad to help.

John

User avatar
mobbor
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 10681
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 19:10
Location: Northern N.S.W.

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

This week I'm putting another 5, which, so far at least, I only have single copies of.

They are all 1d reds and, unfortunately, the postmarks give no indication of location or dates:-

I or JCH

Image

B? &B

Image

DMW Ltd

Image

EB

Image

G&Co S

Image
mobbor

User avatar
HAPPY_stamps
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
Posts: 42
Joined: 02 Aug 2020 12:06
Location: Canberra Australia

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

Greetings, mobbor!

In order (top - bottom) you have:

JCH.2 (1917-1938) J. C. Hutton & Co, 72 Roma St., Brisbane, ham & bacon curers &c.
B&B.1 (1903-1928) Brierley & Brierley, 82 Pitt St., Sydney, accountants.
DWMLTD.1 (1901-1934) D. & W. Murray Ltd., Gawler Place, Adelaide and Flinders Lane,
Melbourne, Warehousemen.
EB.1 (1902-1927) Edgar Bell & Co., 22 Market St., Melbourne, customs agents.
G&COS.1 (1911-1936) Gollin & Co., 50 Clarence St., Sydney, merchants & general importers.

User avatar
mobbor
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 10681
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 19:10
Location: Northern N.S.W.

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

This time some State stamps. I've also posted the front, not that they reveal much, except for the poor condition.

1. Image

Image

G&Co. Apart from Victoria, nothing. No date. Don't know about Stamp Duty, but the regular issue was on sale from Jan 1890 and the next 1d issue was in 1901.

2. Image

Image

RR&C? Apart from Victoria, no location. Can't discern the date. This was on issue for a long time- 1886- 1900, at least.

3. Image

Image

DWM Ltd. Apart from Victoria, no location and no date. This was the last 1d issued, from 1901.

4. Image

Image

LS. Apart from N.S.W., no location and no date.

5. Image

Image

GDCo. W.A. Otherwise no location or date. On issue 1901-11.
mobbor

User avatar
bazza4338
100 Thousand Club - Addicted Stamp Poster!
100 Thousand Club - Addicted Stamp Poster!
Posts: 105078
Joined: 12 Dec 2009 16:50
Location: Korumburra Vic. Australia

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by bazza4338 »

GDCo, W.A.
1.jpg
User: Goode, Durrant & Co

Merchants

Address: 39-41 William St, Perth, WA

Railway Use:

1905-6 issue 3d.

1907-23 issue 1d (pink), 3d, 6d, 9d, 1/-, 2/-, 2/6d, 5/-.

Rarity Scale:

1905-06 issue 3d.

1907-23 issue 1d R3, 3d R3, 6d R4, 9d R4, 1/- R4, 2/- R3, 2/6d R4, 5/- R4.

Background: *Charles Goode (later Sir) was born in 1827 in Herefordshire, England. In 1837 he left school and 2 years later he was apprenticed as a draper and in 1849 (aged 22) he migrated to South Australia where he opened a shop in North Adelaide as well as selling goods on foot and later by cart. When his initial partner Thomas Good retired he joined with his brothers Samuel and Matthew in opening a warehouse in Adelaide.

In 1859 Charles went to London to establish a buying department and did not return to Australia until 1863. After a short period in politics in the seat of East Torrens in the House of Assembly he returned to London and conducted the business from their until 1882. At this time the partnership with his brothers was dissoloved and he returned to Australia and created a new company with new partners W. H. Durrant, (his London manager) and W. H. Tite.

The company was publically listed in 1893 and Goode remained a director but he had other interests, including a Directorship in a Bank, an Insurance company and several manufacturing concerns as well as the newspaper the South Australian Advertiser.

The company expanded from its base in Adelaide across to Perth were they had premises at 39-41 William Street, Perth but also at the Lion Boot Factory, Subiaco, and offices in Kalgoorlie, and Broken Hill (NSW) and a London office at 27 Milton Street London EC.

Charles was knighted in 1912 and he died in 1922 aged 95.

In 1934 Goode, Durrant merged with D & W Murray to form Goode Durrant & Murray Ltd, which continued to be run from offices in London. The company was in turn taken over by D & W Murray (Australia) Limited in July 1957.

Device: As with the GDCO/P.a device below, the GDCO.a device was a single die device produced by Slopers in England.

The Sloper records show its date of manufacture to be 1903, which is coincidently the end of the usage of the GDCO/P.a device. Given the GDCO letters in both GDCO.a and GDCO/P.a are identical it would be logical to assume that the GDCO.a device is the GDCO/P.a device with the P removed.

The GDCO/P.a device shows no sign of wear that would necessitate its repair or indeed its withdrawal from service and there is no usage recorded after 1903. The true circumstance may never emerge but given the Sloper records would suggest that the most likely scenario is that Goode Durrant returned the GDCO/P.a device to Slopers and that they modified it by the removal of the P and returned it to Perth.

Alternatively the GDCO/P.a device may have been destroyed by an accident, such as a fire, and that another device was ordered from Slopers in the GDCO format. This seems less likely as even Slopers would have had difficulty matching the GDCO so accurately.

The GDCO.a device was a robust one and it is found used on postage stamps up until 1944. It is not found on WA revenue stamps but it is found on WA railway stamps.

Related patterns: Refer to other Goode Durrant and Co patterns in:

WA: GDCO/P.a

GDM.a

* The Australian Dictionary of Biography *State Library of WA

https://www.perfins.com.au/OZ-Revenue-Perfins/WA-Revenue-G-Perfins.html

User avatar
bazza4338
100 Thousand Club - Addicted Stamp Poster!
100 Thousand Club - Addicted Stamp Poster!
Posts: 105078
Joined: 12 Dec 2009 16:50
Location: Korumburra Vic. Australia

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by bazza4338 »

LS
2.jpg
User: F Lassetter & Co Ltd (trading as Lassetters)



Address: George St, Sydney, NSW



Initially Ironmongers and later General Merchants (Universal Providers)



Revenue Use:

KEDVII 1909-28 issue 2d

Numeral 1917-28 issue 2d

Rarity Scale:

KEDVII 1909-28 issue 2d R3

Numeral 1917-28 issue 2d R3

Background: See L/S.a above

Device: The LS.b device was sourced from the perfin device manufacturer, Slopers in England in November 1902 and was a multi die device of 12 dies in a 6 (horizontal) x 2 (vertical) die format.

The dies were essentially identical, which is consistent with a high quality manufacturer such as Slopers, but there are slight variations between some of the dies. Because the dies are essentially the same we list this as a single pattern despite its multi die format.



To date there have been too few multiples sighted to establish the exact location of the subtly different dies within such a large device.



Use of the device seems to overlap with that of LS.a but it is clear that the purchase of the LS.b device was intended to replace the LS.a device as this overlap of use is only for a year or so.



The pattern is found on the revenue and postage stamps of NSW as well as later on the postage stamps of Australia over the period 1903 until at least 1924. As with LS.a, usage on revenue stamps is much rarer than postal use.

Related Patterns: Refer to other F Lassetter & Co patterns in:

NSW: L/S.a

https://www.perfins.com.au/OZ-Revenue-Perfins/nsw-Revenue-L-Perfins.html

User avatar
bazza4338
100 Thousand Club - Addicted Stamp Poster!
100 Thousand Club - Addicted Stamp Poster!
Posts: 105078
Joined: 12 Dec 2009 16:50
Location: Korumburra Vic. Australia

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by bazza4338 »

DWM Ltd. - Victorian branch of Tasmanian Company

3.jpg
User: D & W Murray (later Ltd)

Manufacturing, Warehouse and Shipping

Address: 52 York St, Launceston, TAS.

Revenue Use:

Numeral:

1907 Numeral Series 1d(11), 2d(12x11.5), 3d(12x11.5).

1918 5d on 10/- Dragon.

1918 5d on £1 Queen.

1919 Numeral Series (underprint) 3d, 4d, 5d.

1920 Numeral Series Perfed 2d(12), 2d(12x11.5), 4d(11), 5d(12x11.5), 6d.

1920 Numeral Series Roulette 2d, 3d, 4d, 5d, 6d.

Rarity Scale:

Numeral:

1907 Numeral Series 1d R2, 3d R3.

1918 5d on 10/- Dragon R4.

1918 5d on £1 Queen R4.

1919 Numeral Series (underprint) 3d R2, 4d R3, 5d R3.

1920 Numeral Series Perfed 2d R2, 4d R2, 5d R3.

1920 Numeral Series Roulette 2d R3, 3d R2, 4d R2, 5d R2, 6d R2.

Railway Use:

Garrett:

1917 1st Series 3d, 9d.

1918 2nd Series 9d, 1/-.

Rarity Scale:

Railway Use:

Garrett:

1917 Series 3d R4, 9d R4.

1918 Series 9d R4, 1/- R4.

Background: *1 *2 David and William Murray were born in Fife, Scotland and immigrated together to South Australia in 1853. Their they set up a retail drapery store in Gilbert Place and in 1855 they moved to larger premises in Grenfell Street. In 1862 they turned entirely to the wholesale trade and in 1866 moved to a site in King William St.

In 1867 they opened a clothing factory and later others for boots and shirts. Consistent with their growing role in wholesale in 1874 they opened an indent and merchandise department as well as a London agency where their father acted as their buyer, financier and general agent. In 1886 the company moved into a new five-story warehouse in Gawler Place. In 1897 the firm became a limited liability company and this lead to a further expansion fuelled by a series of acquisitions including, Scott Dawson & Stewart (Brisbane and Townsville), L. Stevenson & Son Ltd. (Melbourne and Launceston), and Henry Bull & Co. Ltd. (Sydney) as well as a merger with Goode, Durrant and Co (Perth). David moved permanently to London in March 1900 but remained a senior partner until his death in 1907.

In all D & W Murray had branches in Melbourne, Brisbane, Sydney, Perth, Launceston, Rockhampton, Townsville and Broken Hill.

Device: D & W Murray were long term perfin users and they are known to have had 6 devices mainly in the format DWM/LTD, the exception being the Perth device which was DW/M. The reporting of these pattern/devices in both CPA#1 and HAPP#2 has been somewhat confused, most likely because the similar appearance of the patterns as well as the poor nature of the strikes produced by some of the devices. The company actually used the following devices (HAPP numbers used for cross reference):

DWM.1 Perth device.

DWMLTD.1 This has been reported with both Victorian and South Australian usage. It is actually two similar devices, one located in Melbourne and the other in Adelaide. The patterns are slightly different in the structure of the right hand corner of the ‘M’.

DWMLTD.2 This is the DWM/LTD.a device and it was located in Launceston and is the only D & W Murray pattern found on revenue stamps. It is reported with Queensland usage but this is not supported by our research. The pattern is also reported with usage from 1901 but again this is not supported by our research. In fact we can only confirm usage from 1912 and this may indeed explain the report of Queensland usage as there was a small amount of cross State usage of postage stamps in the immediate pre Commonwealth period in an attempt to reduce stocks of State stamps. We would be confident that the usage was exclusively in Launceston.

DWMLTD.3 This is another Launceston device with the DWM/LTD format in a larger size that was used between 1930 and 1940. It co existed with the DWMLTD.2 / DWM/LTD.a pattern and may have been at a separate Launceston location.

DWMLTD.4 This was a Melbourne device that came into service in about 1924 and it most likely replaced the Melbourne DWMLTD.1 device, which started to degrade in 1913 and since 1914 produced very poor strikes.

This DWM/LTD.a device was most likely a single head device and it is found in a variety of positions. Examples of multiples show inconsistent relationships between strikes, which is characteristic of a single head device. As stated above it is the only DWM/LTD device found on revenue stamps and it is found used on Tasmanian postage stamps from 1912 and then the issues of Australia until at least 1948.

Related Patterns: None on Revenues

*1 Australian Dictionary of Biography

*2 Trove

#1 Commercial Perfins of Australia (Grant/Mathews 1992)

https://www.perfins.com.au/OZ-Revenue-Perfins/T-Revenue-D-Perfins.html

User avatar
bazza4338
100 Thousand Club - Addicted Stamp Poster!
100 Thousand Club - Addicted Stamp Poster!
Posts: 105078
Joined: 12 Dec 2009 16:50
Location: Korumburra Vic. Australia

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by bazza4338 »

RR&Co
4.jpg
User: Robert Reid & Co Ltd

Warehousemen

Address: 341-347 Flinders Lane, Melbourne, VIC

Revenue Use:

1886-1899 Series, inscribed 'STAMP DUTY' 6d (shades)

Rarity Scale:



1886-1899 Series 6d R4

Background: The Melbourne antecedents of Robert Reid & Co. of London, Sydney and Melbourne begin before 1855 with Laing & Co, warehousemen of 72 Lt. Collins Street East. General importers, the company specialised in goods for the drapery trade, footwear and clothing. In 1856, a partner, William Webster, was taken in and the firm became known as Laing & Webster. (James Robert Liang b. 1827, in Scotland).

In 1865, the firm of Edward [Warne] & [George] Webster opened in the extensive warehouse premises of Laing & Webster at 55-57 Russell Street and the new business became a major manufacture of clothing employing 200 hands. In March, 1868 the partnership between Warne and Webster was dissolved.

In 1876 James Robert Liang, previously of Liang and Webster, became a partner with John Paterson in Paterson, Liang & Co with a London office established in 1878. [Paterson bought out his partners Henry Palmer and Briscoe Ray in Paterson, Ray, Palmer & Co.]

John Monroe Bruce, resident partner of George Webster & Co., became a partner in Paterson, Liang & Bruce in 1879. J.M. Bruce acquired the interests of other partners in the firm, which was then converted into a limited liability company in 1897, with branches in Melbourne and London. Paterson, Liang & Bruce merged with Robert Reid & Co. Ltd in February 1966 to form Paterson, Reid, Bruce Ltd., a subsidiary of Ralli Australia Pty Ltd.

Robert Reid was born in Fifeshire in 1842 and migrated with his family aboard the Ralph Waller, arriving in Melbourne in April, 1855. He gained a few months experience in retail drapery in Ballarat and Melbourne before joining William Watson & Sons, wholesale warehousemen of Swanston Street, where he worked for 17 years.

In January 1874, Edward Warne took Robert Reid and John Adair into partnership, the firm being styled Warne, Adair and Reid wholesale drapery importers at 50 Flinders Lane East. In April 1876, the partnership [now with a branch in London] was dissolved, the firm now being styled Warne & Reid.

New premises for a staff of 90 were built in 1881. The following year, a factory employing 250 people in making men’s clothing was opened in Collingwood. A large branch of the company was also established in Sydney.

When Edward Warne retired in December 1887, the partnership between 'Edward Warne and Robert Reid of Melbourne, Sydney and London', clothing manufacturers and warehousemen, was dissolved, and the business became Robert Reid & Co.

By 1890, the firm was one of the largest Australian importing businesses in Australia with branches not only in Sydney but also Adelaide and Brisbane, London and Glasgow.

In 1898, Robert Reid & Co., general warehousemen, agents, manufacturers and wharfingers, specialising in wholesale soft goods became a limited liability company with its head office in a five storey London building.

Robert Reid & Co. Ltd. and its two main subsidiaries Hustlers Pty Ltd [incorporated in NSW] and Robert Reid & Co. Ltd [incorporated in England], continued to trade until October 1957 when it merged with David Murray Holdings Ltd of Adelaide to form Reid Murray Holdings Ltd.

In 1963, Reid Murray Holdings Ltd. was liquidated, its subsidiary Robert Reid Ltd continuing to trade until 1966 when it was bought by Ralli Australia Pty Ltd and merged with Paterson, Laing & Bruce Ltd to become Paterson, Reid & Bruce Ltd.

Robert Reid became one of Australia’s foremost commercial magnates. President of the first Congress of Chambers of Commerce in Australasia in 1880, he represented the Melbourne Chamber of Commerce at the Indian and Colonial Exhibition in London in 1886 and was a commissioner at the Paris Exhibition of 1889. Reid was president of the Melbourne Chamber of Commerce in 1888-90 and 1899-1902.

In 1892, Reid was elected to the Legislative Council for Melbourne Province, and was elected three more times before resigning in 1903. He was Minister for Defence and Health from 1893-94. In 1901, he stood unsuccessfully for the Senate and was restored to the Victorian ministry in 1902 as Minister for of Public Instruction and Health. In January 1903, Reid was elected to the Senate to 'hold the place' caused by the death of Frederick Sargood.

Robert Reid died unexpectedly from diabetes in London in May 1904, and was buried in Hampstead cemetery.

Device: Single Die

Related Patterns: Nil

https://www.perfins.com.au/OZ-Revenue-Perfins/Victoria-Revenue-R-Perfins.html

User avatar
bazza4338
100 Thousand Club - Addicted Stamp Poster!
100 Thousand Club - Addicted Stamp Poster!
Posts: 105078
Joined: 12 Dec 2009 16:50
Location: Korumburra Vic. Australia

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by bazza4338 »

G&Co
5.jpg
User: Gollin & Co (later Pty Ltd)

Merchants

Address: 561-563 Burke St, Melbourne, VIC

Revenue Use:

1886-1899 Series, inscribed 'STAMP DUTY' 1d (shades)

Rarity Scale:



1886-1899 Series 1d R4



Background: *Gollin and Co (Later Pty Ltd from 1901), general merchants and importers, were first established in Adelaide in the 1870s, some sources say London, and later opened offices in Melbourne in 1889 and an office in London in 1902. They then established other Australian offices in Sydney and Brisbane, as well as New Zealand offices in Wellington, Auckland, Christchurch and Dunedin.



The principal owners and directors of the company were five members of the Gollin family. By the early 1900s, the company had secured sole agency rights for a large number of European and American exporters of foodstuffs, iron and steel, and oil. The most significant of these appears to have been the Shell Transport and Trading Co Ltd (later Royal Dutch Shell) for which Gollin and Co handled the distribution of oil and kerosene in most Australian States until 1905 when Shell established its first Australian branch.



In Melbourne from 1902, the company was located at 561-563 Bourke Street in purpose built offices and showrooms and the company occupied the building until 1966. The company became a subsidiary of Holdings company, Gollin Holdings Limited, which was incorporated in Victoria on 30 August 1957. The company went into liquidation on 30 June 1976.

Device: The G/&CO.a pattern is made from a temporary die in a single die format. Such devices, which could produce these temporary patterns, were used by some Stamp Vendors in Melbourne from late 1800’s and early part of the 20th Century.



This particular pattern is known over the period 1895-1901. It is most commonly found on postage stamps. On postage stamps there is much reported variation in the layout of the pattern with different separation between letters etc. with more than 13 reported layouts. However this variation is not reported on revenue stamps and to date only one layout is reported.



Related Patterns: Refer to other Gollin & Co patterns in:



VIC: G/&Co.b



*Walking Melbourne

State Library of Victoria, Melbourne

Wikipedia

Trove


6.jpg
User: Gollin & Co (later Pty Ltd)

Merchants

Address: 561-563 Burke St, Melbourne, VIC

Revenue Use:

1886-1899 Series, inscribed 'STAMP DUTY' 1d (shades)

Rarity Scale:



1886-1899 Series 1d R4



Background: See G/&Co.a



Device: The G/&Co.a pattern is made from a temporary die in a single die format. Such devices, which could produce these temporary patterns, were used by some Stamp Vendors in Melbourne from late 1800’s and early part of the 20th Century.



This particular pattern is known over the period 1896-1898. It is most commonly found on postage stamps. On postage stamps there is much reported variation in the layout of the pattern with different separation between letters etc. with more than 18 reported layouts. However this variation is not as commonly reported on revenue stamps and to date only 3 layouts are reported.



Related Patterns: Refer to other Gollin & Co patterns in:



VIC: G/&Co.a

User avatar
mobbor
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 10681
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 19:10
Location: Northern N.S.W.

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

That was quick. Bazza you are amazing- you seem to know everything about everything!

I wonder why we have now 3 experts, assisting only little old me. Why are other members not taking advantage?

Please do not go to too much trouble. Apart from the obvious- who, what, where and when, it would be nice to get a rarity rating. But the main thing is whether there is more than one type, so I know whether to show other copies or not. (I do want to form a basic collection, but I don't want a page of writing with every stamp.)

Five more on Saturday.
mobbor

User avatar
HAPPY_stamps
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
Posts: 42
Joined: 02 Aug 2020 12:06
Location: Canberra Australia

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

.
Greetings, mobbor!

While appreciating the work Bazza4338 has gone to with his reply, I point out that his reference site admits to listing only perfins which are found on Revenue stamps (not postal stamps), which it admits are only about one third of all Australian private perfins. So the rarity ratings are only with reference to revenue stamps.

Again, taking yours from top to bottom:

1. G&Co.1, 1894-1904, rated Uncommon, Gollin & Co [Pty Ltd], 561 Bourke (not "Burke") Street,
Melbourne, Merchants and general importers. Bazza4338's patterns are not the same as yours.

2. RR&C (Bazza4338's pattern has a different combination of letters). This is a new one not
previously reported - thank you! It will be RR&C.14 in the catalogue update, and obviously
rated "rare". The user was probably Robert Reid & Co Ltd., 341-347 Flinders Lane, Melbourne,
warehousemen.

3. DWMLTD.1, 1901-1934, rated Very Common, Gawler Place, Adelaide, and Flinders Lane,
Melbourne. Bazza4338's pattern is different to yours - note the middle section of the 'M'.

4. LS.2, 1903-1924, rated Very Common, F. Lassetter & Co Ltd., 403-421 George Street, Sydney,
general merchants. The perforator was made by Joseph Sloper & Co of London (inventor
of perfins), and consists of 12 dies in 2 rows of 6 (a complete row of 1 pane).

5. GDCO.1, 1903-1959, rated Very Common, Goode, Durrant & Co, William Strert. Perth.

I will go back and post rarities for your previous items separately shortly.
.

User avatar
HAPPY_stamps
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
Posts: 42
Joined: 02 Aug 2020 12:06
Location: Canberra Australia

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

Hi again, mobbor,
Rarities for the items in your posts of 1 August and 15 August are:

1. 1 August
RA.4 - rare
AD.1 - uncommon

2. 15 August
JCH.2 - uncommon
B&B.1 - uncommon
DWMLTD.1 - very common
EB.1 - common
G&COS.1 - uncommon

These are out of a scale of {very common / common / uncommon / scarce / rare }
I will include rarities in future posts.

H_s

User avatar
mobbor
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 10681
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 19:10
Location: Northern N.S.W.

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

HAPPY_stamps,

Thanks for that, and also re Bazza's post.
mobbor

User avatar
bazza4338
100 Thousand Club - Addicted Stamp Poster!
100 Thousand Club - Addicted Stamp Poster!
Posts: 105078
Joined: 12 Dec 2009 16:50
Location: Korumburra Vic. Australia

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by bazza4338 »

mobbor wrote:
19 Aug 2020 12:37
That was quick. Bazza you are amazing- you seem to know everything about everything!
Thanks mobbor - but not true.

Explanation:-

General Manager - Someone who knows something about everything

Technician - Someone who knows everything about something

Receptionist/Telephonist - Someone who knows everything :)

User avatar
mobbor
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 10681
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 19:10
Location: Northern N.S.W.

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

:lol:
mobbor

User avatar
mobbor
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 10681
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 19:10
Location: Northern N.S.W.

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by mobbor »

Another 5

1. DJLtd

Even I know this is David Jones Ltd. It must be the most common of all.

Image

They were very carelessly applied. Many are much worse than this.

Image

Are there different types?

2.SMC

Image

According to Glen's post above, these can occur in 8 different directions. This is apparently because the sheets were folded in 4? before they were perforated. I have at least 7 copies of this and they are all the same.

Image

No date but I believe this is G33 which didn't appear till 1920.

3. WY&CO

Image

Image

4. WS&Co

Image

Image

No date. Single watermark, so no earlier than May 1924.

5.WHB

Image

Image

Also single watermark.
mobbor

User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 3243
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by johnrcrow »

Hello Mobbor.


I hope others can ID the first one! N

YxwXR3a.jpg








L8h65fq.jpg








epSFwpf.jpg








FrPnN3l.jpg










kP0kca5.jpg

User avatar
satsuma
2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
Posts: 3011
Joined: 26 Dec 2015 13:52
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by satsuma »

Isn't that just David Jones
DJ
LTD

Split across the perfs?

User avatar
HAPPY_stamps
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
Posts: 42
Joined: 02 Aug 2020 12:06
Location: Canberra Australia

Re: Help with ID of these Australia private perfin stamps

Post by HAPPY_stamps »

.
Greetings, all!

Yes, mobbor and satsuma, you are correct. This is the first (chronologically) of the David Jones' perforators, made by Joseph Sloper & Co. of London. It had 12 dies in 2 rows of 6 in each row. Slopers also made another one for them in 1949, having 6 dies in 2 rows of 3 per row. In each of these, there is very little variation among the dies.

David Jones also had a third perforator made about 1920, probably locally, with much larger letters. It had 4 dies in 2 rows of 2 per row which were spaced to match the larger KGV stamps.

There are noticeable differences between these 4 dies, and each die is illustrated in "Handbook of Australian Private Perfins". The latest date of use of this perforator matches the introduction of the KGVI definitive series.

Post Reply

Return to “You ask the questions - SOMEONE will have the answers!”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Allanswood, Google [Bot], gregbear61, TPStonesheep and 3 guests