Assistance re plating GB QV 1841, 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Stamps4Life »

.
So I have these 2 that im trying to figure out what plate, state, alphabet, etc... While I don't have a SG catalog for these, I do have the recent SG Queen Victoria Vol 1 Part 1 book. But, it may be a little TOO advanced for this beginner as I even have trouble determining alphabet I, II, III or IV. Cancel S.W. ??

For instance the "P" of the imperf looks to me to be small letter alphabet I when compared to the lettering size of the perf'd stamp, but it may be just that im getting thrown off by the perf'd box being cut?? The imperf could be alphabet IV ?? Anyhow I don't notice any numbers in the ribbons either.

The best I could do on the wmk is to not crop the picture as then they got blurry. Ive visited a few of the links for plating, but they may be above my pay grade for now. ANY help appreciated.


IMG_20210610_0002.jpg
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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by GB1840 »

The perf looks like Alp III, probably SG Spec C10 (SG 39/41) if large crown wmk, perf 14 on white paper and with no plate number in the design so you would need to compare the check letters against the photos of the registration sheets which takes some experience with these issues. The range is from plates 27 to 68.

The imperf is Alp I and looks to be a later plate in he range plates 91 to 131.

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Stamps4Life »

GB1840 wrote:
11 Jun 2021 21:49
The perf looks like Alp III, probably SG Spec C10 (SG 39/41) if large crown wmk, perf 14 on white paper and with no plate number in the design so you would need to compare the check letters against the photos of the registration sheets which takes some experience with these issues. The range is from plates 27 to 68.

The imperf is Alp I and looks to be a later plate in he range plates 91 to 131.
Ok, ill have to do some more looking. Question: What makes you think the imperf is in the later plates range? What should I be looking at? Thank you

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by GB1840 »

As you may note from SG Part 1 the later Alp I plates had their corner squares recut and yours looks to have strong corners indicating this.

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by emason »

Stamps4Life wrote:
11 Jun 2021 08:33
Image
I think the rose-red lettered F-E perforated is from die 2 plate 45; and the red-brown lettered P-G imperf is from die 1 plate 124. (Not absolutely certain on either of these.)
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by GB1840 »

I agree 124 does look a good fit.

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Stamps4Life »

Thanks all. You’ve all given me a lot of good information to study. I am currently traveling and will not be able to look at these until next week. I’m guessing I can find one of the plate sites and plug in the corner letters…. Ive found a site or 2 to do that but I’m not sure if I’m understanding all the info - for instance the recut corners. Going to have to look up the original corners I guess and the recut ones to make a comparison? Thanks again.

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Femuruy »

Hi guys need some help to plate this one ... it proved harder than what i thought. Thank you in advance for your help!
GB 1d Red stamp - Plating
GB 1d Red stamp - Plating
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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

Femuruy wrote:
15 Jun 2021 11:43
Hi guys need some help to plate this one ... it proved harder than what i thought. Thank you in advance for your help!
Your 1d red lettered 'L-J' looks like plate 38 to me.
('J' flaw, weak top and blur to NW corner)
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by GB1840 »

Looks like plate 38 with 'J' flaw.

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by MrBeagle »

Here is a different LJ from the previous post. Mine appears to be Plate 34. I base this primarily on the vertical guide line in the N.E. corner and faintly in the S.E. corner. It may have the “J” flaw, though it is very faint. The margins between LK and MJ also match the registration plate. Can you experts corroborate or correct my identification?

The cover shows 2 or 3 strikes of a London numbered cross. Does anyone else agree that it is number 8?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Plate 34(LJ).jpg
Plate 34(LJ) London no X.jpg

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by GB1840 »

I think plate 34 is correct, shows the NW ray flaw and I think the vgl seals it, very difficult to confirm if a No. 8.

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by AdrianC »

Have begun to attemp to plate my imperforate penny reds. I have the books & have read this thread. This is my first one & would just like confirmation or otherwise that I have the correct plate? just to see if I am doing things correctly. I think it is Plate 29?
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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

Hello Adrian,

Sorry, it's not from plate 29 - the check letters don't match.

I think it's more likely to be plate 84.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by AdrianC »

Bill

Many thanks. Back to the reference material.

Adrian

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Stamps4Life »

GB1840 and emason - thanks for your replies. Sorry to say, been smothered with work and now grandkids so no chance to follow up yet but want to say appreciate the help. Hope to get some time later in the weeks ahead.

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Stamps4Life »

GB1840 wrote:
11 Jun 2021 21:49
The perf looks like Alp III, probably SG Spec C10 (SG 39/41) if large crown wmk, perf 14 on white paper and with no plate number in the design so you would need to compare the check letters against the photos of the registration sheets which takes some experience with these issues. The range is from plates 27 to 68.

The imperf is Alp I and looks to be a later plate in he range plates 91 to 131.
Alp = alphabet?

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by GB1840 »

Yes, correct.

Regards

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by AdrianC »

62.jpg
If I could indulge once more? Plate 62?

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

AdrianC wrote:
05 Jul 2021 03:41
If I could indulge once more? Plate 62?
While the 'I' is a good match, the 'L' is too central to be plate 62.
Plate 58 is a better fit with its NW blur and left frame line extending upwards.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by AdrianC »

Bill

Thank you. I also looked at 58! I could be getting better. Thanks again.

Adrian

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Wentworth »

I could not find a similar thread for the Penny Red, could someone point me in the right direction please?

I am as much curious about the plate numbers as the town cancels on these two penny reds below



F029736B-9339-4A2C-8E59-C018FFBBEE37.jpeg

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by CMJ »


Moved to the correct thread.


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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by CMJ »


With regard to the cancellations ....

Image5.jpg

PK is slightly confuing as thre are two datestamps overlapping and offset from one another.

It would appear however to be from Totness for ?? 11 1842. Above the "11" you can see "OTNE" in the correct arc and with that lettering it can only be from Totness.

THe date also fits in as the datestamp was used there throughout 1842 instead of the Maltese cross.

BTW I use the spelling as "Totness" as that is what is on the datestamp.

Chris.


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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Wentworth »

Thank you Chris for moving this to the correct thread and figuring out the date stamp on PK!

Looking at it like this, the second arc belonging to the fainter 1842 can be made out with what seems to be the ‘T’ of Totness covering the P

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Femuruy »

it's quite hard to read it ... hope the filtered image helps a little bit


0000066232_Yuv_u(norm_w_2pct,equalized,8-bit).jpg

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by emason »

Wentworth wrote:
17 Jul 2021 18:24
I am as much curious about the plate numbers as the town cancels on these two penny reds below
I think 'R-G' is from plate 27 and 'P-K' is from plate 19.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Wentworth »

emason wrote:
18 Jul 2021 07:50
I think 'R-G' is from plate 27 and 'P-K' is from plate 19.
Thank you! :D

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1841 Penny Red WI Plate Number?

Post by rcg1878 »

.
Can any kind person assist with the plate number of this inverted watermark stamp.

Shame about the postmark, prob an ink mark, but a good filler.

Does anyone also know the Cat Value?

Thanks in advance.



WI.jpeg

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Global Administrator »

.
A dip in hot water will likely minimise/remove that ugly ink blob.
.
Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by rcg1878 »

Thanks for the tip!

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Re: 1841 Penny Red WI Plate Number?

Post by emason »

rcg1878 wrote:
29 Jul 2021 15:25
.
Can any kind person assist with the plate number of this inverted watermark stamp.
Not without a better image.
Preferably one that is larger, in focus and not distorted. A scan at 600dpi of just the stamp would be ideal. :)
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by rcg1878 »

Thanks Bill, I will try and get a better scan. Regards Rob.

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by rcg1878 »

Hello Guys

Apologies, I am still trying to navigate round this site! If this is in the wrong thread can a kind samaritan move it please! Can anyone assist with the plating of these two stamps. The first stamp without the inscription may be from a rarer plate.

Thanks in advance
Attachments
177.jpeg
INSCRIPTION.jpeg

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

Hello Rob,

Your 1d red 'A-J' is , I think, from plate 52.

The 1d red 'C-D' requires more time than I have at the moment. I will come back to you on this one.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by rcg1878 »

Thanks Bill, much appreciated! Rob.

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by rcg1878 »

Hi there, This may be plate 177, I am hoping it is. Any help anyone can give re this would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again.
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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

rcg1878 wrote:
01 Aug 2021 20:34
Hi there, This may be plate 177, I am hoping it is. Any help anyone can give re this would be greatly appreciated.
Plate 177 was my initial thought. But 177 being a rare stamp I needed time to be certain.

As a matter of interest, why do you suspect it may be plate 177?
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by rcg1878 »

Hi Bill, thanks for taking the time to look at the stamp. Plating is new for me I have compared versus the imprimatur plates for type 2 penny reds and it looks similar to 177 with these letters. These being the only imprimatur plates I Have But! But then again I am new to this so any opinion you can give would be appreciated thanks.

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Alchemy68 »

I wonder if i could ask for an opinion on this 3 margin example ?

It is on cover with the black maltese cross and a Leith date mark for 20 June 1843. That makes it no higher than Plate 36 if i read my books right. No break in the NE Corner so not 12-16. The I looks like it should be distinctive with the very short lower left bar ?
IMG_6087.jpg

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

Hello Rob,
I now think your 1d red 'C-D' is from plate 177. The other candidate was plate 150, but on balance 177 seems a slightly better match.

It would be worthwhile in getting another opinion though, or getting it certified.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

Alchemy68 wrote:
01 Aug 2021 23:36
I wonder if i could ask for an opinion on this 3 margin example ?

It is on cover with the black maltese cross and a Leith date mark for 20 June 1843. That makes it no higher than Plate 36 if i read my books right. No break in the NE Corner so not 12-16. The I looks like it should be distinctive with the very short lower left bar ?
The nearest I can get with your 1d red 'T-I' is plate 32.

The serifs on check letters are unreliable as anomalies could be due to faulty inking.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Alchemy68 »

emason wrote:
02 Aug 2021 04:42


The nearest I can get with your 1d red 'T-I' is plate 32.

The serifs on check letters are unreliable as anomalies could be due to faulty inking.
Thank you very much; its an amazingly complex area so your expertise is appreciated.

Alan

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by yesma100 »

Hi, this is one of a few one penny reds I have found. It is on blueish paper and had 'Ivory Head' written against it. I have no idea of the plate number or how to find it. Any help would be appreciated. Its my first request so please advise if the scan is the right size etc.
IMG_20210731_0001.jpg

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

Hello yesma100,

I think your 1d red 'O-E' is from plate 36.

The image you provided is perfect for plating.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by yesma100 »

Thanks Bill. I have been looking into how to id the plates. I can see that the left edge of the design is weak but cant see anything going on with the letters. Is the Ivory Head just a result of the printing rather than the particular plate?
I have found that 516 in the cancellation was from Malborough between 1844 - 1895. Does this help with the likely plate? Really looking for your workings (as they say in an exam :D ) Thanks again.

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by gavin-h »

yesma100 wrote:
04 Aug 2021 06:30
Is the Ivory Head just a result of the printing rather than the particular plate?
Hi, yesma100,

There's a thread here with much more information about Ivory Heads that you might be interested in:

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4240

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

Hello yesma100,

With regards to plating, this thread shows what to look for.

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=77688&p=6835440#p6835440

If you have copies of the imprimatur plates you can compare the stamp to be plated with these to find an exact match.

In the case of your stamp 'O-E', I first compared the positions of the check letters and narrowed it down to either plate 36 or plate 76.

I then compared the NW and NE corners and noticed that on your stamp the NW corner had been recut, which resembled that of plate 36.

Further checks for ray flaws and guide lines confirmed plate 36.

With regards to the cancelation, plate 36 is very early to have an 1844 type numeral cancel.

I hope this helps.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by yesma100 »

gavin-h many thanks for the link to the Ivory Head thread. A fascinating subject and interesting that it does not necessarily add anything to the rarity (value) of the stamp. I would however love to have so many penny reds on blue paper that I could display them face down, very cool.

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by yesma100 »

Bill many thanks for your 'workings' which I read with interest and an understanding of almost all the words but not necessarily the meaning of the sentence :oops: . You did however give me a rescue with the link to the ID thread. I now can see how you went about the ID. That said I think it would take me quite a considerable time to match your skill and expertise. This is a great response to me first enquiry and I am looking forward to using this forum in future. Thanks again.

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