1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by satsuma »

Just in case some members are thinking that ebay offerings are the source of all OS forgeries, may I draw your attention to this?

Image


Published 20 May 1933.

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Global Administrator »

The Pom in 2009 wrote:I can't see Jude Koch from Blue Owl Stamps knowingly selling fakes.
Fast forward 10 years ................... :roll:
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by mobbor »

satsuma wrote:Just in case some members are thinking that ebay offerings are the source of all OS forgeries, may I draw your attention to this?

Image


Published 20 May 1933.
Also from 1933:-

Image
mobbor

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by MJ's pet »

Just in case some members are thinking that ebay offerings are the source of all OS forgeries, may I draw your attention to this?
Really interesting articles, thanks for posting.

As comparatively few "OS" overprints were done and used, collectors of the 1930s found it hard to acquire mint and used examples. Hence there was a demand that could only be satisfied by forgery.

There was also another big burst of forgery of these in the 1970s.

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by TonyL »

Some help from the experts please. I have read all of the posts above and I still can't make my mind up on the stamps I purchased about 10 years ago.

I am not feeling confident :(

Image

Image

Image

Image

Thanks.
TonyL

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by The Pom »

I can see your point on not being able to make your mind up.

Much better than average fakes would be my gut feeling.

The ink isn't quite opaque enough, and the shape/outline is just a little rough for my liking.

Certain aspects of the shape aren't quite what I'd want to see, though it should be noted that these overprints do vary a bit from unit to unit.

The ink not "taking" on the lower part of the S on the 2d is also untypical.

Anyone else?
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by Rod Perry »

mobbor wrote:Also from 1933:-

Image
Who was the "well-known philatelist in Sydney" ? (I should know, but can't recall)

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by Allanswood »

When did Takuma die?
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by satsuma »

He left Australia in 1911 for Japan and left Japan for England in 1913.
Apparently he never returned to Australia.

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by satsuma »

Rod Perry wrote:
Who was the "well-known philatelist in Sydney" ? (I should know, but can't recall)

Rod
His name was Eugene Lamier, he was also a hairdresser.

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by Rod Perry »

I would have picked him for the hairdresser part, but haven't encountered him as a Philatelist previously?

Anyone know more of him, philatelically?

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by Global Administrator »

The Canberra Times (ACT : 1926 - 1954) Thursday 21 September 1933, page 4 (original article)

STAMP FORGERY, Alleged Manufacture Of O.S. Variety

A charge against Eugene Lamier, 57, a manufacturer, of having made the mark "O.S.", upon a postage stamp without lawful authority with intent to cheat, was dismissed by Mr. Stevenson at the Central Court. to-day.

The magistrate also dismissed a second charge against Lamier, of having in his possession a counterfeit die containing the letters "OS" for the purpose of marking a postage stamp.

Mr. Penny, for the defence, said that the stamp was worthless and as far as the Government was concerned, once it had been cancelled, and there was nothing in criminal law which would make it an offence to put a mark on a worthless article.
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by muttly2011 »

The clipping reporting the above:

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by traralgon3844 »

Fortunately no-one has fallen for this one.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283636149037

Image

Image
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by danyeung »

Are these geninue ?

Image

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by The Pom »

All look OK to me. I've never seen the Bridge OS faked.
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by The Pom »

Universal Philatelic have this beauty in their forthcoming January auction, lot 733.

No wrongdoing on their part is implied. I will contact them and have no doubt the lot will be withdrawn.

Image

https://stampauctionnetwork.com//UP/up7637.cfm
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Please educate me, why is my eBay fake radar flashing red!

Post by ausman1000 »

3d blue Southern Cross 1931 OS overprint

What's up with the different perf hole sizes and the zigzag perf comb? Is this a typical?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Australia-O2-MNH-CV-450/153922738164

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Re: Please educate me, why is my eBay fake radar flashing re

Post by fromdownunder »

Please include a scan of the item in question in the future.

Image

(ETA: Sorry, I don't know why imgbox cropped the scan)

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Re: Please educate me, why is my eBay fake radar flashing re

Post by bazza4338 »

fromdownunder wrote: (ETA: Sorry, I don't know why imgbox cropped the scan)

Norm
You may have used 800 x 800 pixel SQUARE instead of 800 x 800 pixel RESIZED

Image

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Post by ausman1000 »

Thanks guys for adding the image. I did save both front and back images for adding later when the link disappears.

So real or not real? I took pause when I saw the perf variations as mentioned above.

Thanks

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Re: Please educate me, why is my eBay fake radar flashing re

Post by fromdownunder »

Thanks Bazza, I learn something new every day.

Here is a genuine one courtesy of an (years) earlier post by Glen
Image
Here is the eBay stamp (again)

Image

Apart from the under inking, and the lower part of the upper left curl on the "S" which may be the result of under inking, they look the same to me, but I will defer to people with better eyesight and analytical skills.

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Re: Please educate me, why is my eBay fake radar flashing re

Post by satsuma »

In my view the perfs are irrelevant to whether the offer is fraudulent or not.

All the money is in the overprint. If you could print the underlying stamp as well as this one is printed, it would be dead easy to print the overprint just as well.

If the perfs were fake, that would imply that the forger got hold of an imperforate corner example, probably worth 100s of times more than a perforated example, reduced its value by perforating it, and then tried to increase its value again by adding the OS overprint. That wouldn't make any sense at all.

What ausman1000 needs to decide is whether the overprint is fake instead of trying to find some kind of supporting evidence in the perforations.

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Re: Please educate me, why is my eBay fake radar flashing re

Post by Global Administrator »

satsuma wrote:In my view the perfs are irrelevant to whether the offer is fraudulent or not.
Bingo.

For some reason I am reminded of the true old phrase - "A LITTLE knowledge is very dangerous in philately".
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by ausman1000 »

Thank you all for the input.

I did pull the trigger and made the purchase after carefully studying the many images of the OS imprint available here on Stampboards.com

To me, I believe the OS imprint to be genuine.

Please, if you have a different opinion I would like to hear from you with all due respect, I am here to be educated!

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by Global Administrator »

ausman1000 wrote:
To me, I believe the OS imprint to be genuine.

Hey it is a free country. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Image

Anyone who buys this, described simply by seller as a LIGHT CREASE, and who does not mention the toned gum, the lack of clear metal "bite" of the metal overprint letters that MUST be there in genuines, and the bonus speck of black ink from the last fake just made, is entitled to their view. :!: :!:

I have no comment on the pretty perfs. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Gotta love ebay BAAAHHHRGHEENS.

*see images for condition* is not typed there for no reason. :!:
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by The Pom »

An absolute beauty finishing soon on ebay. Looks like another bidding battle between Stevie Wonder & Ray Charles.....
For the record, there is no suggestion of wrongdoing by the seller. Also, I've been in touch with them & they're cancelling the sale.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/392792151711


ksos.jpg
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by The Pom »

On sale by Australian dealer Kennedy Stamps. I contacted them about this last week & haven't had a reply, so I thought I'd better post it here.

EDIT: Kennedy Stamps have subsequently been in touch, apologising for missing my email and to inform me that the stamp will be removed from sale. I should also clarify that I originally posted this here to draw it to the attention of prospective purchasers, and not to criticise the seller.


The 2d looks OK, but the 3d is clearly bad.

https://www.kennedystamps.com.au/australia/pre-decimals/1931 ... oxing.html


Kingsford Smith forged overprint
Kingsford Smith forged overprint
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by Global Administrator »

The Pom wrote:
31 Jul 2020 00:19
On sale by Australian dealer Kennedy Stamps. I contacted them about this last week & haven't had a reply, so I thought I'd better post it here.
Well Robert is a Proud member of APTA, and his Code Of Ethics means he agrees to not knowingly offer any forgeries. And APTA of course will (theoretically - coff) kick him in the head if he does. Hopefully a few emails are sent to keep them all honest. :idea:

A Blind Nun can see that is a fake and appalling that a well established dealer for 50 years would dream of offering this appalling cr*p as genuine.

I bought this one recently. MUH genuine gum, 1931 Kingsford Smith "OS" overprint, Extremely rare Plate 2, RPSL Photo Certificate (2008). SG O124, ACSC 142(OS)za, $A12,500 for MUH. Superb centring especially for these. $A2,500. (Stock 783JQ)


1931 Kingsford Smith "OS" overprint stamp, Extremely rare Plate 2, RPSL Photo Certificate
1931 Kingsford Smith "OS" overprint stamp, Extremely rare Plate 2, RPSL Photo Certificate
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by MJ's pet »

The Pom wrote:
31 Jul 2020 00:19
On sale by Australian dealer Kennedy Stamps. I contacted them about this last week & haven't had a reply, so I thought I'd better post it here.

The 2d looks OK, but the 3d is clearly bad.

https://www.kennedystamps.com.au/australia/pre-decimals/1931 ... oxing.html

Image

Unsurprisingly, the 3d is still for sale.

The Pom, why don't you report it to APTA and ask them to investigate: http://www.apta.com.au/Home.aspx Email: admin@apta.com.au

1. Selling forgeries.

Breach of Code of Ethics: I will refrain from dealing in stolen philatelic and counterfeit material, and give buyers of repaired, regummed, reperforated, reprinted or otherwise altered philatelic material a complete written statement showing in detail the nature of the changes and alterations in such material.

Breach of Code of Ethics: I will avoid misrepresentation and misleading advertising.

2. Failure to communicate with a customer.

Breach of Code of Ethics: I will, by deed and example, endeavour to promote mutual trust and friendship between members and the public.

It will be very interesting to see what does/not transpire. Ask to be apraised of the results of their investigation.

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by MJ's pet »

Global Administrator wrote:
31 Jul 2020 00:50
Well Robert is a Proud member of APTA, and his Code Of Ethics means he agrees to not knowingly offer any forgeries.
.
Except that it seems he is not.

There is no APTA branding on his website at all: https://www.kennedystamps.com.au/
About Us

Kennedy Stamps P/L is the only fully functioning philatelic retailer in the SYDNEY CBD
We are located at suite 706a, 250 Pitt St. Sydney, close to the intersection of Pitt and Park St's.

Four years ago, we decided for quality of life reasons to reduce our working hours to three days a week,
nominating Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday as our trading days, opening between 10 am and 4 pm on those days.

Customers are welcome to view a full range of world-wide stock of countries and themes as well as a wide range of albums and accessories

We also offer a world-wide new issue service for any country and most themes.

Please note that if there are questions on specific items then please contact our office for clarification.



He is not listed on the APTA website as a member dealer: http://www.apta.com.au/Dealer_Search.aspx?Group=9&id=9

How current this is is anyone's guess of course.
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Interesting.

Kennedy was certainly a member of about 50 years standing until pretty recent times, but APTA membership is shrinking as fast at Trump's approval rating, so no big surprises there. :mrgreen:

Seems like zero standards are enforced these days for APTA members.

A client pointed this absolute SHOCKER that was auctioned yesterday by Leski. "Full Perfs" - get real. ''FAKE PERFS'' is more accurate.

Very crudely re-perforated on THREE sides, but not mentioned. ALL dealers and auctions MUST be able to see this was a re-perf, and have a DUTY to note it. No excuse for offering such mutilation with no comment from ANYONE professional. Then if anyone bids, it is at their choice.

Some cretin is being invoiced about $400 for this dog after buyer fees and shipping are added. I'd pay about $100 as a space-filler if it were offered to me.
.

378820_0.jpg
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Capture.JPG

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by The Pom »

.
With respect to the dodgy 3d being sold by Kennedy Stamps, I am pleased to say that I have just had a message from Robert apologising for missing my email and informing me that the item will be removed from sale, so all ends well.
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by mikotz »

This set just arrived recently, any expert opinion please? Genuine or fake?
$_57.jpg

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by MJ's pet »

The Pom wrote:
23 Aug 2020 22:49
With respect to the dodgy 3d being sold by Kennedy Stamps, I am pleased to say that I have just had a message from Robert apologising for missing my email and informing me that the item will be removed from sale, so all ends well.


Did he say if he is still a member of APTA?

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by The Pom »

mikotz wrote:
27 Nov 2020 11:26
This set just arrived recently, any expert opinion please? Genuine or fake?

Image

They look fine to me.
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by The Pom »

MJ's pet wrote:
27 Nov 2020 13:05
The Pom wrote:
23 Aug 2020 22:49
With respect to the dodgy 3d being sold by Kennedy Stamps, I am pleased to say that I have just had a message from Robert apologising for missing my email and informing me that the item will be removed from sale, so all ends well.


Did he say if he is still a member of APTA?
That wasn't discussed.
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by mikotz »

The Pom wrote:
27 Nov 2020 18:37
mikotz wrote:
27 Nov 2020 11:26
This set just arrived recently, any expert opinion please? Genuine or fake?

Image

They look fine to me.
Thanks The Pom for the comment ;) and confirmed my judgement as well :D

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by corpman »

Have a look at these very suspect OS blocks from a supposedly well respected dealer in Canada -
citystampmontreal

It is from their ebay listing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Australia-O1-O2-Very-Fine-Mint-Bloc ... 4249363706

These guys are big dealers in Canada and members of several trade organisations.

What is every one else's opinion on these bodgy looking overprints?


OS Montreal.jpg
.

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by Global Administrator »

corpman wrote:
06 Jan 2021 00:56


These guys are .... members of several trade organisations.

They are? What makes you think that? They do not seem to think they are -

https://www.citystamp.ca/about-city-stamp-montreal

They are just ebay sellers, beholden to no-one except eBay. Who are beholden to making money, whether from stamp fakes or genuine.

These look fake for sure - ink is probably still wet.

But some drooling eBay Bunny will cough up the $A1000. And when it comes time to sell to a real dealer one day will have eBay to complain to! Good luck with that. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Donate the $1000 to a worthwhile charity - at least some benefit to humanity will result. :!:

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by The Pom »

citystampmontreal have form in this area......

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12654
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by The Pom »

Global Administrator wrote:
06 Jan 2021 01:14
corpman wrote:
06 Jan 2021 00:56


These guys are .... members of several trade organisations.

They are? What makes you think that? They do not seem to think they are -

https://www.citystamp.ca/about-city-stamp-montreal

They are just ebay sellers, beholden to no-one except eBay.
From their homepage:
Members of CSDA and APS.
That's the Canadian Stamp Dealers' Association & the American Philatelic Society.

Also from their homepage:
Contact Information
1134 rue St-Catherine Ouest #865
Montreal, Quebec, Canada H3B 1H4
1-800-615-2596
info@citystamp.ca
Mon - Fri / 10:00AM - 4:00PM ET
Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.

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woodster
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by woodster »

Global Administrator wrote:
16 May 2020 17:37
ausman1000 wrote:
To me, I believe the OS imprint to be genuine.

Hey it is a free country. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Image

Anyone who buys this, described simply by seller as a LIGHT CREASE, and who does not mention the toned gum, the lack of clear metal "bite" of the metal overprint letters that MUST be there in genuines, and the bonus speck of black ink from the last fake just made, is entitled to their view. :!: :!:

I have no comment on the pretty perfs. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Gotta love ebay BAAAHHHRGHEENS.

*see images for condition* is not typed there for no reason. :!:
Krikey, then a damn good forgery if that is the case. I have looked at the comparison pics in the previous post and damned if I can see the difference.

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Global Administrator »

admin wrote:
01 Mar 2010 12:02
I listed these up today -

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=17549

Image

Bought these in a large collection of pre-war.

The corner CTO with gum are genuine -- no issues. Juzwin retail $85 a pair. The lower set were marked as "postally used - rare thus" and owner had paid a Melbourne dealer $300 for them, as ACSC is $450 for postally used.

Firstly how anyone with a brain could be so dumb as to not spot these as fakes sure beats me, but nothing surprises me these days.

Anyway I bought them as fakes and allowed only a token few dollars as they'll be a handy reference to post on the board if nothing else!

So buy a real set and get the fakes tossed in FREE!

Glen

These were CLANGERS!

Glen

Image
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by Allanswood »

The Pom wrote:
31 Jul 2020 00:19
On sale by Australian dealer Kennedy Stamps. I contacted them about this last week & haven't had a reply, so I thought I'd better post it here.

EDIT: Kennedy Stamps have subsequently been in touch, apologising for missing my email and to inform me that the stamp will be removed from sale. I should also clarify that I originally posted this here to draw it to the attention of prospective purchasers, and not to criticise the seller.


The 2d looks OK, but the 3d is clearly bad.

https://www.kennedystamps.com.au/australia/pre-decimals/1931 ... oxing.html



Image


Hmmm.... 6 months later and still for sale. :shock:
Greg - Looking for Goulburn Australia Cancels and Grangemouth Scotland Cancels and Covers
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by mikotz »

woodster wrote:
10 Jan 2021 13:46
Global Administrator wrote:
16 May 2020 17:37
ausman1000 wrote:
To me, I believe the OS imprint to be genuine.

Hey it is a free country. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Image

Anyone who buys this, described simply by seller as a LIGHT CREASE, and who does not mention the toned gum, the lack of clear metal "bite" of the metal overprint letters that MUST be there in genuines, and the bonus speck of black ink from the last fake just made, is entitled to their view. :!: :!:

I have no comment on the pretty perfs. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Gotta love ebay BAAAHHHRGHEENS.

*see images for condition* is not typed there for no reason. :!:
Krikey, then a damn good forgery if that is the case. I have looked at the comparison pics in the previous post and damned if I can see the difference.
I also considered this to be genuine at first sight. The black ink at the back may not be indicative of fake - from the back of a 6d with OS overprint, which has rarely been faked as discussed in this thread, the tiny black ink trace could be seen at the top of 'S' as well. Possibly caused by the high pressure and ink penetration when being overprinted.
s-l1601.jpg
IMG_4715.JPG

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by Global Administrator »

.
EDIT: Kennedy Stamps have subsequently been in touch, apologising for missing my email and to inform me that the stamp will be removed from sale.



Coming from Robert Kennedy - why does this not surprise me ONE iota? In my many business dealings with him this is consistent with his attitude. In my view, not to be trusted. :roll: :roll:

Glen
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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by ausman1000 »

mikotz wrote:
10 Jan 2021 15:31
woodster wrote:
10 Jan 2021 13:46
Global Administrator wrote:
16 May 2020 17:37
ausman1000 wrote:
To me, I believe the OS imprint to be genuine.

Hey it is a free country. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Image


Anyone who buys this, described simply by seller as a LIGHT CREASE, and who does not mention the toned gum, the lack of clear metal "bite" of the metal overprint letters that MUST be there in genuines, and the bonus speck of black ink from the last fake just made, is entitled to their view. :!: :!:

I have no comment on the pretty perfs. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Gotta love ebay BAAAHHHRGHEENS.

*see images for condition* is not typed there for no reason. :!:
Krikey, then a damn good forgery if that is the case. I have looked at the comparison pics in the previous post and damned if I can see the difference.
I also considered this to be genuine at first sight. The black ink at the back may not be indicative of fake - from the back of a 6d with OS overprint, which has rarely been faked as discussed in this thread, the tiny black ink trace could be seen at the top of 'S' as well. Possibly caused by the high pressure and ink penetration when being overprinted.

Image
Image
In my original post, I'm not sure if he was referring to the black mark in the selvage or the bleed through on the back of the stamp. However I am highly confident that my item is genuine in all respects and this is based off my own opinion after studying my own cto os copies from the same issue and many other images on this thread that were deemed genuine.

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by jojo »

.
Here are two stamps which came in a large Australian collection.

Appreciate opinions re overprints - many thanks.



IMG_20210813_0003.jpg
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IMG_20210813_0002.jpg
Last edited by Global Administrator on 13 Aug 2021 20:18, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added pars and spacing and “air” – always a superb idea on Bulletin Boards! Use the "PREVIEW" button folks. It is there for a GOOD reason. Added images inline

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Re: 1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

Post by gregbear61 »

They look good to me... :)

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