1931 'OS' Kingsford-Smith stamps. Genuine? Yes or No?

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by The Pom »

luke_coolhand wrote:Image

Up to the same old tricks!!! Frankpav2009

https://cgi.ebay.com/Australia-3d-Kingsford-Smith-Overprinted-OS-MNH_W0QQitemZ220513413800

He has a couple more finishing in the next few hours, along with a load of other dodgy looking stuff. Time for a concerted effort to get them closed down I think.
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by ozstamps »

The Pom wrote:
He has a couple more finishing in the next few hours, along with a load of other dodgy looking stuff. Time for a concerted effort to get them closed down I think.
Odd seller - near ALL he offers are OVERPRINTS. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

But the dope sees nearly all of them fail to reach his reserve. :lol: :lol:

http://completed.shop.ebay.com/frankpav2009/m.html?V4SOI&_tr ... =1&guest=1

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by admin »

I listed these up today -

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=17549

Image

Bought these in a large collection of pre-war.

The corner CTO with gum are genuine -- no issues. Juzwin retail $85 a pair. The lower set were marked as "postally used - rare thus" and owner had paid a Melbourne dealer $300 for them, as ACSC is $450 for postally used.

Firstly how anyone with a brain could be so dumb as to not spot these as fakes sure beats me, but nothing surprises me these days.

Anyway I bought them as fakes and allowed only a token few dollars as they'll be a handy reference to post on the board if nothing else!

So buy a real set and get the fakes tossed in FREE!
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by fromdownunder »

I love the fake 2d. It looks like it was made with a kids home brand 1950's rubber stamp kit.

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by traralgon3844 »

It is odd that a newbie with a zero rating lists mint Kingsfod Smith OS overprints as a first listing.

What do you think of these by: 123rebeccaanne? They do look good IMHO.

https://cgi.ebay.com.au/1931-Flights-of-Sir-Charles-Kingsford-Smith_W0QQitemZ170452930040

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by PeterS »

Paul, I am not so sure about the 3d.
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by The Pom »

If they're fakes, they're very good efforts.
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by cgw67 »

I read in one of the earlier posts in this thread that the designs of the Kingsford Smith and the KGV Head OS overprints are different. I have am trying to complete a MUH set of the KGV opts and have bought several on Ebay.

I have been quite cautious on Ebay and never paid more than listed dealer prices. One thing I have noticed in searching for these overprints out on Ebay is that there are one or two sellers who seem to have an inexhaustible supply of these stamps.

I have decided not to risk the higher value stamps in the set on Ebay and will buy them from a dealer, but I would like to know how to tell if those I have already purchased are authentic or fakes.

Unfortunately I don't have a scanner and cannot load images of those I've bought but I would appreciate pointers on how to tell a fake from a real visually. Many thanks to anyone who is able to offer their advice.

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Allanswood »

:shock: sorry I was typing a reply, got it all mixed up and now theres no delete button? :shock:
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by PeterS »

cgw67 wrote:I read in one of the earlier posts in this thread that the designs of the Kingsford Smith and the KGV Head OS overprints are different. I have am trying to complete a MUH set of the KGV opts and have bought several on Ebay. I have been quite cautious on Ebay and never paid more than listed dealer prices. One thing I have noticed in searching for these overprints out on Ebay is that there are one or two sellers who seem to have an inexhaustible supply of these stamps. I have decided not to risk the higher value stamps in the set on Ebay and will buy them from a dealer, but I would like to know how to tell if those I have already purchased are authentic or fakes.

Unfortunately I don't have a scanner and cannot load images of those I've bought but I would appreciate pointers on how to tell a fake from a real visually. Many thanks to anyone who is able to offer their advice.
Use a ½d OS Overprint as a template. It is extremely unlikely that anybody has bothered to forge an overprint on that value. All the other George V overprints will be identical.

Here are a couple of scans of genuine overprints.

Image

Image
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by woodster »

Hi all,

Not necessarily the right forum for this but I have recently purchased (and am yet to receive)
a large lot which includes 2 very appalling Kingsford Smith OS fakes.

As a matter of interest, is there anyone who collects fake Kingsford Smith O/P in order to build up a
humourous collection?

If so let me know.

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by cgw67 »

Many thanks to Peter for posting scans of authentic KGV OS opts. I know the higher values are not in the league of the Kingsford Smith opts but I'd hat e to give one cent to anyone trying to rip people off. Thanks again

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Kloster »

Hello, could anyone help me with the OS on thiese?

Both CTO OS I recon, but don't know if the OPs are ok.

Image

Image

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Global Administrator »

Kloster from scans very hard to be certain, but better than 50% chance the 3d is OK.

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by PeterS »

I'd say they are OK, the 6d is rarely forged anyway.
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Kloster »

Thank you both, another question, am I right in guessing that it's CTO? - seller states that they do not have gum on the back, but that could easly have been removed ...

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Clive »

Kloster,

Yes, both CTO. And I agree with Peter, the OS overprint looks genuine enough.

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by stallzer »

May I inquire about this one ?

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Clive »

Stallzer,

Nice stamp, for sure a CTO and the OS overprint looks fine to me.

Generally speaking the CTO versions of this stamp are mostly genuine - it's the mint and mint never hinged items that are targets for the fakers.

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by cgw67 »

I'd be grateful if I might have an opinion on these KGV opt's including the 1932 Lyrebird. I'm not so concerned with the lower values, I was wondering about the 4d & 5d as well as the Lyrebird, all of which were bought from reputable dealers in Melbourne.
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Thanks to anyone who can assist.

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by cgw67 »

In fact looking at the Lyrebird I'm more worried about lower reperfing now.

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Clive »

cgw67,

They look fine, to me. They all have that 'thin' look to the top of the overprinted 'S' (unlike the Kingsford Smith and Bridge overprints, where the top of the 'S' is much thicker). Although it wouldn't stop the needy and/or greedy, relatively speaking there isn't much money to be made from faking OS overprints on some of these.

I'm hopeless at picking up on reperfs, and I can see what you mean with the 1/- lyre bird but maybe it's okay, if only for the fact that it's hard to imagine a faker making such a bungle of a reperf job. :roll:

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by fromdownunder »

I really don't think its worth faking a 1/- Lyrebird OS. Juzwin retail for normal MUH is AUD 85 and for the OS not much more at AUD 110.

Forgeries are far more likely to occur on really cheap stamps to add a lot of value (the Kingsford Smiths) rather than those which already have a hefty market value.

Why take the chance on ruining a stamp already worth AUD 85 for an extra 25 bucks?

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by PeterS »

The 1/- Lyre was a Line Perforated stamp, so some variability is to be expected.
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Re: OS Kingsford-Smith, Yes or No

Post by Machaggis52 »

mrboggler wrote:Great to have a record of the fakes and the correct items for others to check out in the future,
Thanks Chris.BTW. those 2 fakes would have fooled me too David,
If they can fool someone of your experience...
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by PeterS »

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Global Administrator »

cgw67 wrote:I'd be grateful if I might have an opinion on these KGV opt's including the 1932 Lyrebird. I'm not so concerned with the lower values, I was wondering about the 4d & 5d as well as the Lyrebird, all of which were bought from reputable dealers in Melbourne.

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by The Pom »

PeterS wrote:What about this one? The 6d is OK, but the 2d???

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1931-KINGSFORD-SM-2D-6D-OS-O-PT-CTO-2D-FULL-GUM-/200716908552

Image
That 2d is a shocker. I've dealt with that seller plenty of times before & I'm sure he would respond appropriately if informed.
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by PeterS »

I thought so too. Here is the email exchange;

I told him his 2d was a forgery. My note;

Hi, sorry to have to tell you this, but your 2d has a forged overprint. Just compare it to the 6d (which is genuine).

First response.

Hi,
These stamps were purchased from one of Australia's most reputable stamp dealers,and was advised position of "OS" can vary on stamps.Cannot see any major difference in the 2 "OS" .Thanks for your interest.
Regards
Robin.
p.s.If it actually was a forgery it would probably be worth more than a normal "OS".


I then told him that positioning of the OS was not the issue, that he should simply compare the overprint with the genuine one on the 6d. I directed him to Stampboards.

His next response;

I BOUGHT THIS MATTER UP WITH A PERSON FROM AUSTRALIAS LEADING AUCTIONHOUSE AND HE TOLD ME IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT TO DETECT FORGERIES ONLY WAY TO BE REALLY CERTAIN IS TO SEND TO THE LIKES OF CHARLES LESKI ETC FOR A REPORT BUT I APPRECIATE YOUR OPINION AND WILL CHECK OUT THE SITE U MENTIONED REGARDS

I think he is getting annoyed, he shouted this time. Some people just don't want to believe their treasures really aren't.
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Allanswood »

OS overprints aren't that hard to tell apart from the fakers, especially when it's the wrong shape and size that even a first glance screams fake.

Quote: "Cannot see any major difference in the 2 "OS"". Really? Would you like to borrow my glasses? :D


Perhaps he was thinking of OS perfins and that's how the Auctionhouse understood his question as it's on everyones mind at the moment.

Even Prestige now has a discalimer about getting OS Perfs certified and then returning for a refund - no you can't.
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by PeterS »

The saga with blinkybillmaryrobin continues. He is threatening to report me to eBay for harassment. :D

He has dropped his price but is still claiming he got the 2d faked overprint from a reputable dealer (who I would know, apparently. Could it be who I think it could be??). I have suggested he just relist the 6d and return the 2d to this reputable dealer for a refund, which any reputable dealer would gladly provide.

I have challenged him to report me to eBay, since they seem to have ignored my report of the fake (what a surprise).
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by PeterS »

Oops! Seems he has decided to bypass eBay and go direct to his solicitor! :D

I am quaking in my boots. All he had to do was withdraw an obvious fake. <sigh> I really must remember that line about arguing with an idiot in future.
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Clive »

Peter,
Oops! Seems he has decided to bypass eBay and go direct to his solicitor!
It won't happen but if it did I'd come out of semi-retirement pro bono to represent you. :lol:

What a clown that bloke is.

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by PeterS »

Thanks Clive, but I don't think I need to worry too much. :D

Oh, BTW, he has now emailed me to say that eBay is happy with his disclaimer. What needs to happen is that someone needs to buy the item and them make a claim through paypal. Also, under their new policy, the stamp will presumably have to be destroyed (a la the violin incident recently).
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Clive »

Peter,
Thanks Clive, but I don't think I need to worry too much.
No you don't. But you might need to start worrying if I were to be your advocate! :lol:

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by PeterS »

It's all right, I would just forewarn the judge. Something like "Your worship, before my learned counsel (and I use the term reservedly, your worship), before he begins to represent my case,I would seek the court's indulgence. I would like to request the opportunity to put an alternate theory of the matter before the court, after learned counsel has presented his, just in case." :D
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Allanswood »

"Your Honor, my client is a simple man, brought up on the wrong side of the tracks and suffered a most unfortunate childhood..." :lol:

"However he knows his P's and Q's and in particular the differences between his O's and S's."

"What's that? Yes we know your Honor, such a waste of the courts time to have brought this case to you. Yes it's just a dodgy stamp. Value? A few dollars. Cost to the court for the waste of a day? About $12,000. Your prefer KGV issues yourself. Ahh, a fellow philatelist of the highest order your Honor, wonderful!"
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by PeterS »

Very good. Unfortunately, for you, the stamp we are discussing is actually from the KGV period. :lol:

Yes, yes, I know. You meant KGV Heads, but I just couldn't resist. :D
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by PeterS »

He has now ended the item. Perhaps my messages might finally have gotten through.
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Clive »

PeterS wrote:It's all right, I would just forewarn the judge. Something like "Your worship, before my learned counsel (and I use the term reservedly, your worship), before he begins to represent my case,I would seek the court's indulgence. I would like to request the opportunity to put an alternate theory of the matter before the court, after learned counsel has presented his, just in case." :D
Peter, the correct expression is 'learned friend'. And you would, I sincerely hope, seek to put an alternative theory rather than an alternate one.

Or were they just some more typos? :P :P :P

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by PeterS »

Clive, you have stumbled on my secret...I rarely spend any time in courts and have to use my imperfect memory of university subjects to 'make things up', as it were. :lol:
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by PeterS »

Apparently blinkybillmaryrobin ended the fake 2d OS just on the off chance it might be a fake. Oh and apparently eBay are aware of me now and will be watching me. :D

I do hope so, it might elicit a better response to reports of faked OS overprints and perfins. Far too often nothing happens at all.
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Allanswood »

Think I'll watch "The Castle" tonight.
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Clive »

Allanswood wrote:Think I'll watch "The Castle" tonight.
Greg,

Still the best Australian movie ever made, in my view.

Clive

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Clive »

PeterS wrote:Clive, you have stumbled on my secret...I rarely spend any time in courts and have to use my imperfect memory of university subjects to 'make things up', as it were. :lol:
Oh, sorry chum, it was supposed to be a secret, was it? :oops: :lol: :lol:

Seriously though, well done for persevering. Looks like it paid off and somewhere out there is a stamp collector who won't be ripped off, not this time anyway.

Clive

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Tassie_Stamps »

Peter,

So blinkybillmaryrobin threatened legal action against you because you advised his lot on offer was faked? :lol: :roll:

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Allanswood »

"So counsel for the defense, just why is your client before me?"
"You Honor, it would appear that my client has had the missfortune of having been charged with being an "honest person" under the penal code of la-la land."

"What's the penatly for that?"
"Death by being hung from his hinges."
"Ah, good, I'm in a hanging mood!" :shock:


"Tell him he's dreamin." (Quote from said movie to be watched tonight) :D
Greg - Looking for Goulburn Australia Cancels and Grangemouth Scotland Cancels and Covers
Member of the S.T.A.M.P Club for Slightly Twisted And Mad Philatelists - Motto: "Bring back the lick!"

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by woodster »

The Pom wrote:They look OK, and I can't see Jude knowingly selling fakes.
:lol:

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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Allanswood »

Woodster, I'm not sure how to respond to the last post but to say I think it a little rude to take a comment way out of date (and context) and prior to any shenanigan's occuring to seemingly have a laugh at a fellow members expense without reason. :?: :?

Or did you miss the fact that the post you quoted was over 2 years ago? :shock:
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Re: 'OS' Kingsford-Smith. Genuine? Yes or No

Post by Global Administrator »

Allanswood wrote:
Think I'll watch "The Castle" tonight.
The movie that spawned the famous line -

"Tell him he is DREAMING"

Why does that line and many ebay descriptions seem to have much in common. :idea: :lol:

(And please Blinky Bill or whatever your name is, do not sue me .. I shudder with fear when clueless amateurs like you threaten me with that!)

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