Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by Global Administrator »

.

(Your vast gobs of jammed up text turned into pars ONCE AGAIN. Have you EVER used the PREVIEW button?? :roll: :roll: )

As posted above, that you clearly are ignoring - one is Die 2 thin paper the other Die 3 thin paper.

This thread has that ID'd many times.

Again what some pommie out of print book calls them - WHO CARES !!!!!

A blind nun can see the long epaulette on the Die 3 from a metre away. It is THAT simple. Forget shading and letter shapes etc. All total red herrings. All about EPAULETTES.

Again your well-meaning tutorial image is a mess, and is quite wrong, and is meaningless, and is indded totally misleading to anyone that uses it, via whatever Facebook page you add it to, and claim it is accurate. Sorting these Dies is a cinch - after 80 years we do not need to re-invent the wheel. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Great work was done on Bermuda. That has no domestic collector base to speak of, and no local catalogue. Worth the effort.

The ACSC is the finest one country catalogue series (10 large specialised volumes) ON THE PLANET by far.

That is the difference. We hence all know what dies exist and there are large images of them.

Glen
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by KGVIStamps »

.
There is obviously no point in discussing this here, so I will just remind the other readers that my goal was never to tie the three catalog listings to any other catalog beyond the Scott, Gibbons and Commonwealth catalogs. As such, I quoted the terms used there.

I collect all of the King George VI issues from all the colonies, so I have been using the Commonwealth Catalogue as my primary reference because it is the most comprehensive resource across all of the issues.

If anyone is interested in seeing the other charts, please take a look at the Facebook Group - British Colonies Stamp Collectors Group. I have charts explaining how to identify the South African issues from 1926 thru about 1954 and am currently posting charts for the Bermuda King George VI keyplate issues.

Others will follow as they are created.
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by Global Administrator »

KGVIStamps wrote:
22 Sep 2020 02:33
.
I collect all of the King George VI issues from all the colonies, so I have been using the Commonwealth Catalogue as my primary reference because it is the most comprehensive resource across all of the issues.
.

Good for you.

It is however useless and WRONG for these issues being discussed here, and using it as you have done, will mislead even more new collectors to the era.

If there are 2 erratic Hillbilly jokes like Scott and Payne, who on earth would even open them, must less quote and highlight them, when the ACSC exists for $120?

It is like using a broom handle as a golf putter. :idea: (Smarter options do exist.)
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by BigSaint »

I recently acquired this block of 4 White Wattles from the Abacus Tillie Mitchell auction:

Registered uncacheted KGVI 3d Blue Die I White Wattles Block of 4 stamps to Highgate Hill.
Registered uncacheted KGVI 3d Blue Die I White Wattles Block of 4 stamps to Highgate Hill.

Registered Brisbane date manually altered to 2nd August 1937
Registered Brisbane date manually altered to 2nd August 1937

Block of 4 White Wattles postmarked Registered Brisbane - 1st August 1937, the day before issue
Block of 4 White Wattles postmarked Registered Brisbane - 1st August 1937, the day before issue

Reverse with hand altered date stamp & correct date stamp - 2nd August 1937
Reverse with hand altered date stamp & correct date stamp - 2nd August 1937

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by Global Administrator »

.
9.30am. Early morning at office. CDS day wheel has not been moved on from August 1 on facial strikes. Clerk notices it, and hand alters one. A clear unaltered August 2 cds on back of same implement, next to altered one, so they wised up.

Still, rather unusual! The silverfish liked it too, it seems evident. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by BigSaint »

Yes, only White Wattles block of four fdc I have seen.

Abacus image
Abacus image

Abacus description
Abacus description

Glen your eagle eye spotted the defect that Abacus failed to mention, the silverfish damage. A couple of very minor blemishes & quality A- is all they said. Whatever that means. I think in these Covid times descriptions need to be a bit more open.
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by ausman1000 »

ausman1000 wrote:
20 Sep 2020 09:09
I have a chance to buy and am asking, what is considered a fair price range for the die 1a as a block of four MUH in very attractive condition?

My 2007 Comprehensive Catalogue of Australian Stamps indicates $375 for a single!

At 30% of cat that would be $112 for a single.

Thanks
Bumping this one time only, promise.

Again, looking for some guidance on fair market value of the above mentioned block of four die 1a MUH in very attractive condition, with nice centering, very clean, nice perfs etc.

If I buy I also promise to post the image of said item.

I currently have an open dialog with seller but am unsure of what $$$ I should agree on.

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by Global Administrator »

BigSaint wrote:
26 Sep 2020 09:11


Glen your eagle eye spotted the defect that Abacus failed to mention, the silverfish damage. A couple of very minor blemishes & quality A- is all they said. Whatever that means. I think in these Covid times descriptions need to be a bit more open.

Abacus Auctions seems to have gone totally to the dogs. That disaster online series of auctions recently was Amateur Hour with bells on, bidder numbers not working, so no bids possible, computer feeds dropping out, and bidders being urged to turn off their computers and refresh, all through the sale, all of which cost the hapless vendors many $1000s in lost sales.

I asked them to mail me $5000 of unsolds, and they owned up that months later, they had still NOT signed up for Amex ... so they left them in unsold, and there they still sit. Costing them $1000+ in lost commissions, and costing the vendor $1000s for goods that will be returned to them. It is like dealing with Aeroflot!

The 3d block has terrible centring, rusty perfs, ripped out perfs, and clear silverfish gnawing damage is "A- grade" in there now ..... they have lost the plot! What does C grade look like??

As no-one can view in person anymore, so ACCURATE descriptions are essential. :!: :!: :!:

Glen
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by Global Administrator »

ausman1000 wrote:
26 Sep 2020 15:13
ausman1000 wrote:
20 Sep 2020 09:09
I have a chance to buy and am asking, what is considered a fair price range for the die 1a as a block of four MUH in very attractive condition?

My 2007 Comprehensive Catalogue of Australian Stamps indicates $375 for a single!

At 30% of cat that would be $112 for a single.

Thanks

Bumping this one time only, promise.

Again, looking for some guidance on fair market value of the above mentioned block of four die 1a MUH in very attractive condition, with nice centering, very clean, nice perfs etc.

If I buy I also promise to post the image of said item.

I currently have an open dialog with seller but am unsure of what $$$ I should agree on.
Image

We work on images here for such enquiries, which is likely why no-one responded.

You might be talking about the rare Die 1B! Or think a clear Die 3 is a Die 1, etc. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
.
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by ausman1000 »

Global Administrator wrote:
26 Sep 2020 15:50
ausman1000 wrote:
26 Sep 2020 15:13
ausman1000 wrote:
20 Sep 2020 09:09
I have a chance to buy and am asking, what is considered a fair price range for the die 1a as a block of four MUH in very attractive condition?

My 2007 Comprehensive Catalogue of Australian Stamps indicates $375 for a single!

At 30% of cat that would be $112 for a single.

Thanks

Bumping this one time only, promise.

Again, looking for some guidance on fair market value of the above mentioned block of four die 1a MUH in very attractive condition, with nice centering, very clean, nice perfs etc.

If I buy I also promise to post the image of said item.

I currently have an open dialog with seller but am unsure of what $$$ I should agree on.
Image

We work on images here for such enquiries, which is likely why no-one responded.

You might be talking about the rare Die 1B! Or think a clear Die 3 is a Die 1, etc. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
.
It is clearly die 1a letter T tapered on the lower right hand side, and no I do not have an image to post.

Let me ask the question this way...would $200 aud be fair market value for both the buyer and seller or is that on the high side?

By the way your string on my monitor measures 13" as pictured.

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by BigSaint »

ausman1000

I posted this image above:

Cat $300 for 4 used White Wattles singles.
Cat $300 for 4 used White Wattles singles.

Now I am not sure why you are unable to post an image but ask yourself some questions. How much more valuable is a 'white wattles' to a Die IA? Given Die I & Die IA were produced in similar numbers should there be a difference in value. Once you have answered these questions I think you will come up with the value you seek.

:)
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by Global Administrator »

ausman1000 wrote:
27 Sep 2020 12:15
no I do not have an image to post.

Let me ask the question this way...would $200 aud be fair market value for both the buyer and seller or is that on the high side?

Planning to offer $100s for a block you allegedly have no image of -- great stuff. Only in America. Why not give him $1000 - seems like a fair thing. And add a 15% gratuity of course. Be our guest, but do NOT repeatedly clog up this board with such absurd Dorothy Dix questions.

A reminder - THIS thread is titled -


Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by danyeung »

Is this 3d white wattles ? Thanks.

It looks like there are two breaks in the inner left frame but not very well defined.


1937 KGVI 3d - six star cover #2 (3).jpg

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Nope.

You have the ''Slightly Whiter Wattles'' version. :mrgreen:

Not NEAR enough ink stripping on yours.

Image
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by danyeung »

BigSaint wrote:
21 Sep 2020 01:49

A Die 1b - I have not heard of a Die 1b, & a look back over this thread does not mention such a thing, but I do have an example that shows those traits of what you say is a Die 1b:


Image.

Image
I showed this to an eminent Judge & he thought it was a Die 1. Note it is postmarked 1st October 1937 & not 1938

Brad :)

Is this a Die 2 ? If yes, it probably is a EKD.

It is tied to a registered cover to Canada with postmark 03 Mar 1938.

1938 KGVI 3d EKD enlarged.jpg

1938 KGVI 3d EKD cover front.jpg

1938 KGVI 3d EKD cover back.jpg
.

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Looks like Die 2 to me. 8-)

I'd suggest it is in the distinctive handwriting of Saville Sheard - please add it here - however odd it originated in Sydney and not Brisbane - where he lived -

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=62919
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by MJ's pet »

This is a "Redfern" produced 1938 cachet cover sold at Gibson's:

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=89272&p=7294003#p7294003

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by danyeung »

Global Administrator wrote:
07 Aug 2021 14:58
.
Looks like Die 2 to me. 8-)

I'd suggest it is in the distinctive handwriting of Saville Sheard - please add it here - however odd it originated in Sydney and not Brisbane - where he lived -

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=62919
.
Thanks Glen :D :D :D

Cover added to the Saville Sheard thread.

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by BigSaint »

BigSaint wrote:
09 May 2019 11:41
Thank you Darren & Gregory.

I said earlier I am trying not to put covers with other adhesives in this exhibit.

I am finding it difficult as the 6d Kookaburra & the 1/- Lyrebird were released on the same day. Am I worrying too much about this? How would you feel about the fit of these Die I fdcs?
Image
A scarce Rev A R Tippett fdc from Currie King Island.
Brad :)
A recent acquisition addressed to the above named cachetmaker:


1937 KGVI 3d Die I, 6d Kooka & 1/- Lyrebird stamps fdc registered from Ballarat to King Island to cachetmaker Rev A R Tippett - 2nd August 1937
1937 KGVI 3d Die I, 6d Kooka & 1/- Lyrebird stamps fdc registered from Ballarat to King Island to cachetmaker Rev A R Tippett - 2nd August 1937

Aust fdc 1937 - KGVI 3d Tippett 2.jpg
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by PhilipAdams »

I have little knowledge of this stamp and its dies other than what I've read in the ACSC and in this excellent thread.

I do have the following inter-group pair which is of interest.

.
IMG_20210830_0008.jpg
.

Imprint is below the central gutter, so stamps must be from Die I or Die IA.

For each stamp T and A in POSTAGE are uniform in shape, so cannot be Die IA.

For each stamp T and A not fully joined, and no sign of ink stripping, so cannot be Die I White Wattles.

Hence a Die I pair.

What is interesting is that on the right hand stamp there are signs of the two ups (remember this is recess printing) in the inner left frame that are characteristic of the White Wattles variant. The white dots are in the right locations too: the lower one is above the 6th line counting up from the line just touching the top of "3"; the upper one is above the 21st line (I think) counting up from the line just touching the top of "3".

.
IMG_20210830_0010.jpg
IMG_20210831_0001.jpg
.


This suggests, on the basis of one sample only, that the white dots might be necessary, but not sufficient indicators of the White Wattles variant.

This idea is further supported by the following post from March 7 2013
Lakatoi 4 wrote:
07 Mar 2013 15:21
I have some Die I's that have the inner frame dots as just perceptible so don't qualify as the "white wattles" unfortunately.
Philip

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

The left one of the two 3d blue KGVI issues appears to show ink stripping:
sb_202126c.jpg
However the "T" and the "A" appear to be normal and there appear to be no breaks in the inner frame. Perhaps Die 2 "White Face"?
From Josto, p. 4: Dies 1, 1a, 2, and 3

sb_202126a.jpg
The registered cover was mailed by surface from Brisbaine to Switzerland on 17 OC 1938.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by PhilipAdams »

Andrew,

Very nice cover.

Both stamps clearly Die II as you suggest.

The left hand pale stamp is most likely: ACSC 193c "Ink stripping (white face and leaves)".

The entry comes with a footnote " The problems with ink stripping that created No. 190 [Die I "White wattles"] were not removed with the introduction of a new in formula and sheets from the recut plate also occasionally showed the effect, although not to the same degree".

I'd say your stamp does show the effect to the same degree.

Philip

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by agondocz »

Hello Philip,

Thank you for your comments. I will have a better look at the several covers that are franked with the KGVI 3d issues, perhaps learn to separate the second and the third dies.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

Post by ausman1000 »

ausman1000 wrote:
27 Sep 2020 12:15
Global Administrator wrote:
26 Sep 2020 15:50
ausman1000 wrote:
26 Sep 2020 15:13
ausman1000 wrote:
20 Sep 2020 09:09
I have a chance to buy and am asking, what is considered a fair price range for the die 1a as a block of four MUH in very attractive condition?

My 2007 Comprehensive Catalogue of Australian Stamps indicates $375 for a single!

At 30% of cat that would be $112 for a single.

Thanks

Bumping this one time only, promise.

Again, looking for some guidance on fair market value of the above mentioned block of four die 1a MUH in very attractive condition, with nice centering, very clean, nice perfs etc.

If I buy I also promise to post the image of said item.

I currently have an open dialog with seller but am unsure of what $$$ I should agree on.
Image

We work on images here for such enquiries, which is likely why no-one responded.

You might be talking about the rare Die 1B! Or think a clear Die 3 is a Die 1, etc. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
.
It is clearly die 1a letter T tapered on the lower right hand side, and no I do not have an image to post.

Let me ask the question this way...would $200 aud be fair market value for both the buyer and seller or is that on the high side?

By the way your string on my monitor measures 13" as pictured.


Well almost one year later after much back and forth we shook hands on a fair price, and I did say back then that I would post images if and when I made the purchase. It arrived today and I am pleased with my purchase of die 1a block of four MUH.



IMG_0006.jpg
.


IMG_0010.jpg

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