Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scans

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Re: Identifying the Dies of the Australian 3d GVI

Post by Machaggis52 »

PeterS wrote:Finally, a completely new Die was prepared, Die III. This is based on the 1/4d value of the same design and is identified easiest by the fact that the epaulet on the King's right shoulder is longer, possible because the head is smaller than the earlier Dies.
Image
This stamp was only ever issued on unsurfaced paper and was replaced, in 1942, by the same stamp printed in brown (following imposition of war tax on 10th December 1941).

So, hopefully if you are looking to buy one of these 3d Blues you will remember to check carefully and not trust the description. Even if it is from a supposedly reputable and knowledgeable trader.

The seller of the previously shown, misdescribed, stamp was angloamericanappraisal, an eBay power seller who certainly should know better!
I have taken issue with this company previously, regarding mis-described Germany plateflaws and varieties. As you point out in the OP, it is always the most expensive they are 'offering'.
With kind regards, Jim

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Re: Identifying the 5 Dies of the Australia 3d KGVI stamp

Post by COLIN »

A really excellent thread.
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Re: Identifying the 5 Dies of the Australia 3d KGVI stamp

Post by Global Administrator »

Anyone care to take a guess at the Die of this one? And WHY?
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Re: Identifying the 5 Dies of the Australia 3d KGVI stamp

Post by PeterS »

If they read the thread, Glen, then it will be a cinch. :D

Is it on a full cover?
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Re: Identifying the 5 Dies of the Australia 3d KGVI stamp

Post by glencottage »

Have just spent a couple of days looking at my 3d blues & wondering how on earth I could ever work out which is which!!

Then I came across this thread from 5 years ago. I think I need a better magnifying glass though!!

Thanks to Peter & Clive for all this info.

Tony

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Re: Identifying the 5 Dies of the Australia 3d KGVI stamp

Post by tooler »

Thank you PeterS.
This has been a great help to me.
I buy too much, can't sell enough - but the information here is priceless.

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by blue-lazer »

I would like to share this amazing strip with stampboard members.

Here is a strip of 10 x 3d blue die 1 stamps that have been previously seperated and re-joined in two places.

As you can see from the matching "wonky" perfs these joins match perfectly.

The interesting thing about this strip is that the top 7 stamps show the white wattles flaw and the bottom 3 stamps are normal die 1.

This would indicate that both types existed in the one sheet rather than separate printings.
Image
This is the complete strip of 10.
Image
Top 3 stamps, all with prominent white wattles variety.
Image
Middle 3 stamps with white wattles progessively getting less prominent.
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Bottom 4 stamps showing 1st stamp as just classifiable as white wattles and bottom 3 stamps as normal die 1.

Has anyone here ever seen joined die 1 stamps showing both normal and white wattles variety together?
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by blue-lazer »

Here is a reasonably well centred Imprint block showing the white wattles variety.

Very slightly toned gum but not too severe.

Purchased on ebay for just over $100.
Image
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by Global Administrator »

blue-lazer wrote:
This would indicate that both types existed in the one sheet rather than separate printings.

"White Wattles" was simply ink stripping, (less than perfect plate contact) on the highly surfaced chalky paper Die 1.

So it can occur within a sheet of Die 1s, I had always thought.
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

I have some Die I's that have the inner frame dots as just perceptible so don't qualify as the "white wattles" unfortunately.
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by JonEboy »

I picked up this page as part of an unloved Australian lot at Stampex last week and was wondering if this was correctly written up and if so is there any inherent value in the page?
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The actual stamps are shown below as enlargements, top one first...
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Image
Image
Image
Image
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Thanks in advance for any help.

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by blue-lazer »

JonEboy wrote:I picked up this page as part of an unloved Australian lot at Stampex last week and was wondering if this was correctly written up and if so is there any inherent value in the page?
Jon
They all look to be correctly written up.

Sydney dealer price list for fine used.

White Wattles $50.00
Die 1 $8.00
Die 1a $20.00
Die 2 Thick $2.00
Die 2 Thin $2.00
Die 3 $1.00

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

blue-lazer wrote:I would like to share this amazing strip with stampboard members.

Here is a strip of 10 x 3d blue die 1 stamps that have been previously seperated and re-joined in two places.

As you can see from the matching "wonky" perfs these joins match perfectly.

The interesting thing about this strip is that the top 7 stamps show the white wattles flaw and the bottom 3 stamps are normal die 1.

This would indicate that both types existed in the one sheet rather than separate printings.
Interesting that the inner frame dots weaken progressively as you get nearer the bottom of the sheet. Strange then that most (if not all) imprint blocks or pairs such as this one of mine, show the frame dots well when you'd expect they have none, particularly as they are at the bottom of each pane :?: :
Image
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by JonEboy »

blue-lazer wrote:
JonEboy wrote:I picked up this page as part of an unloved Australian lot at Stampex last week and was wondering if this was correctly written up and if so is there any inherent value in the page?
Jon
They all look to be correctly written up.

Sydney dealer price list for fine used.

White Wattles $50.00
Die 1 $8.00
Die 1a $20.00
Die 2 Thick $2.00
Die 2 Thin $2.00
Die 3 $1.00
Thank you so much, that has just made my night. That's more than I paid for the entire album and it has the mint and used robes in there with both paper types as well. Looks like I have the start of a nice Australian collection :D

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by Micky »

Hi, I think I found one (Finally) :roll: , it also looks to have a small flaw line through top right.
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3d Blue K.G VI Die 1 - Is any of those is white wattles?

Post by dvn8 »

Image
When the stamps is about a metre away from the face, you can clearly see the 2 white dots on 1 or 2 stamps, but when you have a closer look at the stamp using a magnifier and yet it is not really visible to see the 2 white wattles. Is this normal or those are not the white wattles?

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Re: 3d Blue K.G VI Die 1 - Is any of those is white wattles?

Post by DJM »

Are you able to do a closer scan on the one's that you think have the dots/white wattles. No-one can really tell from the small scans.

Darrin.

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Re: 3d Blue K.G VI Die 1 - Is any of those is white wattles?

Post by dvn8 »

The bottom left looks like to have 2 white wattles.
I will try and get a better closer up scan for that stamp.

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Re: 3d Blue K.G VI Die 1 - Is any of those is white wattles?

Post by GUTTERS »

Larger scans, and scan each one, one stamp at a time at 600 dpi or higher also place square on the scanner as we need to look at the horizontal lines

This may help

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15268&hilit=white+wattles
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Re: 3d Blue K.G VI Die 1 - Is any of those is white wattles?

Post by dvn8 »

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Re: 3d Blue K.G VI Die 1 - Is any of those is white wattles?

Post by dvn8 »

Thanks Gutters for the link for the 3d Blue K.G VI Die 1.

I am still unsure about this one as the 2 white dots are not that visible compared to others in the closer scan.

Very faint line breaks on 5th and 7th perfs from the bottom left.

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Re: 3d Blue K.G VI Die 1 - Is any of those is white wattles?

Post by GUTTERS »

I would give it a no
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Re: 3d Blue K.G VI Die 1 - Is any of those is white wattles?

Post by DJM »

GUTTERS wrote:I would give it a no
Agree - I can't see the two white dots that are supposed to be above the '3d', and the 'TA' does not appear joined.

Darrin.

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by Rod Perry »

Die I "White wattles" is an extremely readily available item, mint (in particular) or used.

Virtually unavailable is the stamp contemporaneously used on commercial cover.

FDCs, though uncommon, are often seen, but of commercial covers I've yet to surpass four examples . . . in 26 years of record keeping.

I've owned a complete mint Die I sheet, and can confirm that "white wattles" and "normal" stamp coexist within the one sheet, as would be expected of ink-stripping as the cause.

muruk above mentions having a cover with "white wattles". Can we see a scan of that?

It may swell the commercial cover census by 25%.

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by Rackrunner »

Can anyone help with possible White Wattles stamp,
it has some very light inner frame breaks that look to be in the
correct areas?

Thanks
Paul
Image
Image

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by BigSaint »

Did someone ask for one of my favourite stamps on cover:

KGVI 3d Die 1:
Image
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by BigSaint »

KGVI 3d Die 1 White Wattles:
Image
Image
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by BigSaint »

KGVI 3d Die 1A:
Image
Image
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by BigSaint »

White Wattles:
Image
Image
Die 1A:
Image
Image
White Wattles & Die 1A:
Image
Image
Airmail Exhibition Cover:
Image
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by Rod Perry »

Interesting group of covers, Brad; Die Ia FDC a rarity of course.

Still rarer in my experience are Die I "White wattles" on commercial cover, which is what I'm hoping to see posted here!

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by DJM »

Rackrunner wrote:Can anyone help with possible White Wattles stamp,
it has some very light inner frame breaks that look to be in the
correct areas?

Thanks
Paul
Image
Image
Hi Paul,

Sorry, but the 'dots' are easily spotted if you have the correct 'White Wattles' (See photo's above of true 'White Wattles'). Also I think I see a break in the 'TA' of postage, which would suggest another Die.

Darrin.

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Re: Sometimes you need help with your..err...plumbing.

Post by BigSaint »

Rod

White Wattles on First Flight Cover - Cracow to Brisbane:

Image

Image

I know this won't increase your commercial white wattles by 25%, but this is the only cover I have seen for this flight & it is not listed in my (ancient) copy of AAMC - Eustis.

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by BigSaint »

Rod

White Wattles on First Flight Cover - Cracow to Brisbane:
Image
Image
I know this won't increase your commercial white wattles by 25%, but this is the only cover I have seen for this flight & it is not listed in my (ancient) copy of AAMC - Eustis.

Brad :)
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by BigSaint »

The last of my White Wattles:
Image
Image
No doubt Rod will say not commercial usage!

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by BigSaint »

DJM wrote:
Rackrunner wrote:Can anyone help with possible White Wattles stamp,
it has some very light inner frame breaks that look to be in the
correct areas?

Thanks
Paul
Image
Image
Hi Paul,

Sorry, but the 'dots' are easily spotted if you have the correct 'White Wattles' (See photo's above of true 'White Wattles'). Also I think I see a break in the 'TA' of postage, which would suggest another Die.

Darrin.
I have posted quite a few Die 1 White Wattles on this page. The question here should be whether this is a Die 1 or not? As there is a clear break top right between T & A in postage, I do not believe it can be a Die 1. If not a Die 1 then not White Wattles!

Brad :)
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by Rod Perry »

Brad, aside from the "F.D.C." typed inscription on the last cover you posted, which is less than encouraging for commercial use purists, the postage rate of 9d should have been 5d only (2d Letter rate + 3d registration fee).

It could be argued it was triple letter rate (i.e. 6d), but that argument would be limp, particularly given the inscription.

Curiously, scan of a fifth example of commercial use on cover of a Die I "White wattles" has today been sent directly to me, initiated by the request I posted above.

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by BigSaint »

Rod

Are you or the owner going to post a copy of the scan of that commercial cover on this thread?

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by Clive »

DJM wrote:
Rackrunner wrote:Can anyone help with possible White Wattles stamp,
it has some very light inner frame breaks that look to be in the
correct areas?

Thanks
Paul
Image
Image
Hi Paul,

Sorry, but the 'dots' are easily spotted if you have the correct 'White Wattles' (See photo's above of true 'White Wattles'). Also I think I see a break in the 'TA' of postage, which would suggest another Die.

Darrin.
It is clearly not a white wattles, which is a die 1 with ink stripping, although the two little dots are the dead set identifiers. There's nothing 'white' about them wattles.

But it is die 1, not 'another die'.

Clive

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by Clive »

These scans may be of some use.

Die 1
Image
Die 1 white wattles
Image
Die 1a
Image
All are CTO.

Clive

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by Rackrunner »

I think this time I have found a correct copy of a White Wattles
stamp?
Image
It also has an early cancel, Aug. 16/37!

Paul

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by BigSaint »

Paul

You are correct, this one is a 'White Wattles".

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KGVI 3d Blue Die II Variety?

Post by gozza69 »

Hi All,

I've just joined and I'm asking my first question. I can't find any information about this stamp I have. It looks like a Die II but it has a deformed A after T in POSTAGE. Has anyone seen this variety?
Image

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Re: Identifying the 5 Dies of the Australia 3d KGVI stamp

Post by Global Administrator »

gozza -- good pix .. the posts above will be a great help I think. :)
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Which die is this Australian KGVI 3d and are there errors?

Post by agingcollector »

Image
Image
Image
The perf is 13.5 x 14 and I assume 1937/38 SG 168 but I have problems identifying it and understanding apparent flaws. The letters TA of postage are not as clearly joined as in Type 1 and Dies Ia and II look identical, which leaves me to study chin and cheek and get hopelessly lost.

Moreover, the top line of the crown seems to have two flaws, an irregularity on the left and a spike on the right.

Would an expert please tell me which die this stamp is and whether the apparent flaws or irregularities are significant.

Winston

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Re: Which die is this Australian GVI 3d and are there errors

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Winston,

Looks like the Die I to me. From your scan it isn't the Die I "White Wattles" as the wattles and King's head seem to have too much definition. The two dots on the left inner frame are still slightly showing but not as pronounced as the White Wattles Die I's.

The two possible flaws you mention appear to be just inking issues.
Tony
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Re: Which die is this Australian KGVI 3d and are there error

Post by BigSaint »

Winston, something to help you compare:

Die 1
Image
Die 1 (White Wattles)
Image
Die 1A
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Yours does look like a Die 1 to me.

Brad :)
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by Global Administrator »

Agree. :)
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by agingcollector »

I thank you, Brad, Tony, and the Boss
Winston

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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by patg »

I'm almost too embarrassed to ask, but :D , after all these great pages of help: Die l? :oops:

I have trouble saying if this "TA" is separated or not. There seems to be variation in the examples given; some with an obvious connection, some not so clear.
Thanks,
patg
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Re: Australia 1937 KGVI 3d Blue Dies & "White Wattles" scan

Post by BigSaint »

patg

Compare your stamp with my post 3 up. You will see in my post of the Die 1A, a diagonal piece has been cut away from the base of the T to separate it from the A. Yours is therefore a Die 1.

Brad :)
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