Old Persia and Iran stamps - How to distingush the fakes?

General things you want to know. Stamps you can't identify. Catalogue values you need to establish. Advice on ANYTHING stamp related you want. SOMEONE might be able to help. You can post photos of the stamps right here to assist . NOTE: - We have a nearby Forum for basic questions from *NEW* collectors.

Moderator: Volunteer Moderator Team

User avatar
kuikka
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 19677
Joined: 18 Oct 2014 03:17
Location: Tampere, Finland

Re: Iran / Persia 1913 4k 11.5 x 12 Ultra & Gray ID?

Post by kuikka »

AdmiralCollector's #496 is the same as souljder777's #496b. Warning of unauthorized reprints applies to that stamp.

User avatar
AdmiralCollector
PLATINUM Star Serious Stamp Poster
PLATINUM Star Serious Stamp Poster
Posts: 474
Joined: 30 Sep 2015 14:04
Location: Whidbey Island, WA USA

Re: Iran / Persia 1913 4k 11.5 x 12 Ultra & Gray ID?

Post by AdmiralCollector »

souldjer777:

Does your catalogue have the warning about unauthorized reprints, perf 11 1/2 X 12?

If you think your stamp is not a reprint, why do you think that?

User avatar
souldjer777
Senior Member Advanced Posting Guru
Senior Member Advanced Posting Guru
Posts: 224
Joined: 29 May 2016 01:31
Location: Petosky, MI, USA

Re: Iran / Persia 1913 4k 11.5 x 12 Ultra & Gray ID?

Post by souldjer777 »

Your right, it is what it is... I saw the warning and it's not helpful due to the fact the reprints can't be distinguished... and our catalog mismatch was confusing as well. I'm all set now though - thank you.

S.C. "Values for Nos. 481 - 500 unused are for reprints, which cannot be distinguished from the late printings of the stamps. The reprints include inverted centers for some denominations. Values, each $30 -$50. For surcharges and overprints see Nos. 501 - 515, 520 - 540, 586 - 587, 595, 596, 598, 600, 607 - 609, 630 - 634, 646 - 666.

Good times.

User avatar
gavin-h
Founder Member Joined April 2007
Founder Member Joined April 2007
Posts: 33371
Joined: 01 Apr 2007 02:10
Location: West Coast of England

Re: Iran / Persia 1913 4k 11.5 x 12 Ultra & Gray ID?

Post by gavin-h »

souldjer777 wrote:I saw the warning and it's not helpful due to the fact the reprints can't be distinguished...
Actually, they can be distinguished very easily:

If it turns up in a beginners / junior collection, it's a reprint. :idea:

You might think that's not very helpful, but with 49½ years' experience in this hobby, I can assure you it is. :wink:

User avatar
souldjer777
Senior Member Advanced Posting Guru
Senior Member Advanced Posting Guru
Posts: 224
Joined: 29 May 2016 01:31
Location: Petosky, MI, USA

Re: Iran / Persia 1913 4k 11.5 x 12 Ultra & Gray ID?

Post by souldjer777 »

I got this particular stamp from a set 481-500 - all hinged to a piece of paper and did the perf check myself. Note on the paper was "do not break set".

richnoddy
Blue Star less than 5 posts NEWBIE!
Blue Star less than 5 posts NEWBIE!
Posts: 2
Joined: 11 Jan 2012 23:12
Location: Chichester, West Sussex,UK

Re: Iran / Persia 1913 4k 11.5 x 12 Ultra & Gray ID?

Post by richnoddy »

There were two official printings of this set, the majority using the wet-print method. Wet-print are on white wove paper with thick white gum, and mostly perf 11.5x11. Wet-print are also distinguished from dry print by having slightly smaller vignettes caused by paper shrinkage whilst drying. Wet-print 22.5mm, dry 23mm, measured from the point below the letter P of Persannes to the frame line just above the Farsi letter m at the top. The 4kr was only printed dry.

Several reprints have been made, each value perforated 11.5, WITH THE EXCEPTION of the 4kr reprint, gauged at 11.5x12. They are on slightly toned paper with very thin smooth yellowish gum.

So, sorry, its a reprint! Persiphila catalogues this reprint a $2.

Incidentally, the SG Central Asia CATALOGUE footnote reads (paraphrased) "Prices given are for reprints, measuring 11.5 except for the 4k at 11.5x12. Other perforation must be worth more". On this basis SG catalogues the 4kr at £49! Work that one out!

User avatar
souldjer777
Senior Member Advanced Posting Guru
Senior Member Advanced Posting Guru
Posts: 224
Joined: 29 May 2016 01:31
Location: Petosky, MI, USA

Re: Iran / Persia 1913 4k 11.5 x 12 Ultra & Gray ID assistan

Post by souldjer777 »

Man... at a loss for words... lol. Rolling dice in 3... 2... 1... Maybe I should start my own personal price guide!? $$$ Just kidding, no worries.

:lol:

User avatar
ghool2003
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Posts: 57
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 19:59
Location: Australia

Re: Persia Postes Persanes question?

Post by ghool2003 »

Dear Sir

The following is my observation on your stamps according the rows they appear as.

First stamp seems ok
In row 2, stamps 2, 3, 4 are all forgeries
In row 3, stamps 1 - 5 all forgeries
All stamps in row 4 are ok
In row 5 stamps 1 and 6 are forgeries
Row 6 and 7 are all forgeries.
Row 8 stamps 1, 3, 4, 5 look like forgeries..

User avatar
phrag99
I was online for Post Number 7 MILLION!
I was online for Post Number 7 MILLION!
Posts: 4679
Joined: 31 Mar 2008 08:31
Location: England

Re: Persia Postes Persanes question?

Post by phrag99 »

I'm not questioning your response for a second, ghool2003, but it would be helpful if you would just give an explanation.

User avatar
ghool2003
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Posts: 57
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 19:59
Location: Australia

Re: Persia Postes Persanes question?

Post by ghool2003 »

Dear Sir
For your first 7 rows of stamps, there are about half dozen type of forgeries on genuine stamps and more on fake stamps. The main characteristics are the shape of last R in overprint which resembles A and also shape of S in the bottom of overprint plus angle of first P and also the size of overprint which will fit nicely in a square of 15mm size. Any stamp without an overprint is from remainder printing with little interest in general.
For row 8 stamps there are at least 7to 8 type of forgeries with the date in the bottom of overprint should read 1319. The clear impression of postmark like no 2 in row 8 is also important. On top of all of these, since a lot of overprints also dissolve in water, the overprint is not clear to the examiner. If your date reads 812, it is definitely forgery .
Persia had reprint and forgeries from 1868 all the way to 1935 overprint. The majority of Persian stamps listed at online auctions are either reprint or forgery for the period mentioned. My best wishes for you in collecting this fascinating country.

User avatar
jukes
PLATINUM Star Serious Stamp Poster
PLATINUM Star Serious Stamp Poster
Posts: 380
Joined: 16 May 2015 01:52
Location: Beckenham, UK

Re: Persia Postes Persanes question?

Post by jukes »

ghool2003

I have just seen your replies, thank you for responding and your knowledge of these Persian stamps.

User avatar
BigSaint
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 83971
Joined: 16 Nov 2012 11:26
Location: Cheltenham, Australia

Re: Help with the authenticity of these early Persia stamps?

Post by BigSaint »

All Photobucket “Ransom” images above have been replaced, and saved forever.

Brad :)

Specialist Collector of World Horse Racing Covers, Melbourne Cup & Kentucky Derby, & JFK fdcs.

User avatar
Global Administrator
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 64974
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone
Contact:

Re: What is the best way to verify the authenticity of a sta

Post by Global Administrator »

Well done Brad. :)
gavin-h wrote:
They are forgeries.

Why? Because they always are. This is one of those areas like Italian States, some German States, Heligoland, Buenos Aires, etc, etc, where unless you have an incontrovertible reason to KNOW they are genuine, you should assume they are all forgeries or reprints.

Now, POST SOME IMAGES on Stampboards as you were advised earlier in this thread, and someone will explain to you WHY they are forgeries. :idea:
Very wise advice from Gavin here. :)
.
Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

User avatar
BigSaint
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 83971
Joined: 16 Nov 2012 11:26
Location: Cheltenham, Australia

Re: Help with Persian and Iran stamps - and forgeries please

Post by BigSaint »

All Photobucket “Ransom” images above have been replaced, and saved forever.

Brad :)
Specialist Collector of World Horse Racing Covers, Melbourne Cup & Kentucky Derby, & JFK fdcs.

User avatar
Global Administrator
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 64974
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone
Contact:

Re: Help with Persian and Iran stamps - and forgeries please

Post by Global Administrator »

Well done Brad .. I merged 4 similar threads into this one to keep them in 1 place - can you check please that no PB images were missed in doing that? :mrgreen:
.
Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

User avatar
BigSaint
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 83971
Joined: 16 Nov 2012 11:26
Location: Cheltenham, Australia

Re: Help with Persian and Iran stamps - and forgeries please

Post by BigSaint »

Global Administrator wrote:Well done Brad .. I merged 4 similar threads into this one to keep them in 1 place - can you check please that no PB images were missed in doing that? :mrgreen:
All good & fixed now. :)
Specialist Collector of World Horse Racing Covers, Melbourne Cup & Kentucky Derby, & JFK fdcs.

User avatar
ViccyVFU
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4038
Joined: 23 Feb 2018 23:49
Location: Harrogate, UK

Re: Help with Persian and Iran stamps - and forgeries please

Post by ViccyVFU »

Statistically, from reading all the preceding threads on Postes Persannes early issues, I guess these are 99% likely to be fakes, but I thought I'd try one quick check (before consigning them to an appropriate receptacle) as I don't often come across sheets.

Image

Image

Here is one of them close up

Image

Unfortunately, my knowledge of Iran is limited by only having an SG SOTW to check in, and that's not very enlightening on the 6 Chahis value.

Could anyone give me "one defining feature why they are forgeries", so that I don't waste anyones time further?

Wrong frame and no overprint to be the 1902 issue, so I'm not hopeful, but just want to close the enquiry .....

Thanks in anticipation.

User avatar
carmel
BLUE Shooting Star Posting GURU!!
BLUE Shooting Star Posting GURU!!
Posts: 989
Joined: 24 Sep 2012 23:00
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

1909 Iran Definitives (Scott 448-61) Original or Reprints?

Post by carmel »

Hi,

I've found the following part set of the Iran Definitive stamps of 1909 (Scott 448-461) in a box of "stuff" that I am going through.

Image
Iran Scott 448-461

Scott catalog has this to say about this issue:

"Unauthorized reprints of Nos. 448-463 abound. Originals have clean, bright colors, centers stand out clearly and paper is much thinner. Nos. 460-463 have gleaming gold margins; reprint margins appear as blackish yellow. Centers of reprints of Nos. 448-454, 456 are brown.

Values above are for unused reprints and for authenticated used stamps. Original unused stamps sell for much higher prices."

Going by the centers I believe these to be reprints, but the previous owner had them marked as originals. On the other hand the colors are bright and the centers stand out clearly. In any case the centers do not prove anything regarding Scott 455 and 457-461.

Descriptions of colors and shades are always tricky.

So are these reprints or are they the real deal?

Cheers,

Carmel

User avatar
drpj
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
Posts: 34
Joined: 19 Feb 2020 01:48
Location: Tallahasse, FL USA
Contact:

Mystery stamp from Iran/Persia

Post by drpj »

Image
We can't find this (possible forgery) in Scott. Perhaps it's a revenue or passport stamp. Or just a fake. Any ideas?
Peter & Corinne Jörgensen - Members TSCC

User avatar
drseg
PLATINUM Star Serious Stamp Poster
PLATINUM Star Serious Stamp Poster
Posts: 463
Joined: 03 Oct 2009 12:15
Location: Canada

Re: Mystery stamp from Iran/Persia

Post by drseg »

I have no specific information on this stamp, but it is not for postage. It mentions 1 Toman, Ministry of Justice, Azerbaijan

User avatar
Chkpoint Charlie
Senior Member Advanced Posting Guru
Senior Member Advanced Posting Guru
Posts: 166
Joined: 23 May 2019 08:16
Location: Chicopee, Massachusetts, USA

Re: 1909 Iran Definitives (Scott 448-61) Original or Reprint

Post by Chkpoint Charlie »

I think the key here is the center color, originals are either maroon or bister brown.

The centers of the reprints are all just brown.

Looking at my three used copies, the 6Ch center is purplish or violet so I am calling it genuine maroon.

The center of my 13Ch is not the same, it looks like a yellow brown type of color, definitely not maroon. This I will say is a reprint, as for the sharpness of the printing it look just as good as the 6Ch so I can not use that to make a determination. It has a nice neat corner cancel might be a forged cancel also.

The 5Kr border is defiantly printed in a gold metallic ink, as a lifelong printer a metallic ink will have a shiny speckled appearance due to the ground up metal used to make the ink, for metallic gold brass powder is used, why it does not tarnish over time I don't know. Because the border in not a non-metallic blackish yellow, this stamp is a original printing also. The center of this stamp is supposed to be bister brown, it looks like an olive/greenish type of color, a bit hard to describe, but definably not brown in any way, so again I will say it is the bister brown of the original.

So, two out of three original printing, not bad for having only three stamps. When I pulled the stamps out of the storage box all three envelopes were marked Reprint? In a few minuets along with a good magnifier and light source I was able to make a good call if the stamps were the originals or the reprints using the description in the catalog.

Sorry I did not have scans, having trouble with all the image sites, I am waiting for the new forum rollout. This reply is to give you confidence in making your own determination about your stamps which is very satisfying. If you have doubts someone on the forum will help, but please try doing your research first which is an interesting part of the hobby.

Vince9630
Green Star Less Than 10 Posts Member
Green Star Less Than 10 Posts Member
Posts: 7
Joined: 18 Jan 2021 05:24
Location: Munkzwalm, Belgium

Re: Help with Persian and Iran stamps - and forgeries please

Post by Vince9630 »

Hi guys, I have a bunch of Persian stamps. I don't know much about it. Can someone help me out?
Attachments
IMG_20210117_210206931_HDR.jpg
IMG_20210117_210152467_HDR.jpg
IMG_20210117_210136167_HDR.jpg
IMG_20210117_193221211_HDR.jpg
IMG_20210117_193202226_HDR.jpg
IMG_20210117_193149026_HDR.jpg
IMG_20210117_192931643_HDR.jpg
IMG_20210117_192920848_HDR.jpg
IMG_20210117_192813691_HDR.jpg
IMG_20210117_192549169_HDR.jpg
IMG_20210117_192456357_HDR.jpg

User avatar
ghool2003
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Posts: 57
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 19:59
Location: Australia

Re: Help with Persian and Iran stamps - and forgeries please

Post by ghool2003 »

Hi Vince9630

Unfortunately near all of your mint stamps are either reprint or forgeries. Most of your used stamps are ok. High catalogue value are for original stamps.

Buying early Persian stamps need authentication as majority are reprint and or reprint with very little value as many were done to mostly defraud the collectors.

with regards

Fred

Vince9630
Green Star Less Than 10 Posts Member
Green Star Less Than 10 Posts Member
Posts: 7
Joined: 18 Jan 2021 05:24
Location: Munkzwalm, Belgium

Re: Help with Persian and Iran stamps - and forgeries please

Post by Vince9630 »

Thanks Fred,

I didn't buy all of those, it's part of a big collection I got from a deseased neighbour. Those 5 stamps on the last picture are also reprint?

Greetings

User avatar
ghool2003
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Posts: 57
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 19:59
Location: Australia

Re: Help with Persian and Iran stamps - and forgeries please

Post by ghool2003 »

Hi Vince 9630
Unfortunately yes they are.
Fred

JozZz
Green Star Less Than 10 Posts Member
Green Star Less Than 10 Posts Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 04 Apr 2021 20:07
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Please Help Identifiy this Persian Stamp

Post by JozZz »

.
Hi, I have some difficulties determine this stamp on an old envelope. The centre with the lion and crescent is purple/ blueish of colour and the rest brown.

The cancellation looks very modern to me especially the wavy stripes.

Its probably a revenue or service stamp but then you also expect a normal stamp to go with it?
Anyway I have put a photo with the front of the envelope there as well.

If there is anybody who knows a bit more?

Thank you

Jos

F3FD66BB-3754-4B61-A796-00470F879B6B.jpeg
.
8982B633-1FFA-4EC1-9725-6134580F3D81.jpeg
.
5D6544C1-2BBF-454F-8904-604CF010F809.jpeg
[/AddSpace]
Last edited by Global Administrator on 05 Apr 2021 21:27, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Global Administrator
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 64974
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone
Contact:

Re: Old Persia and Iran stamps - How to distingush the fakes?

Post by Global Administrator »

.
I'd guess the cancel is many decades old. :)
.
Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

User avatar
ghool2003
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Posts: 57
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 19:59
Location: Australia

Re: Old Persia and Iran stamps - How to distingush the fakes?

Post by ghool2003 »

Hi
This a 2Rial revenue stamp used on an envelope maybe by a government employee. The date is not clear but I assume to be about maybe 50 years ago as I have these stamps on government documents.
With regards Fred

JozZz
Green Star Less Than 10 Posts Member
Green Star Less Than 10 Posts Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 04 Apr 2021 20:07
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Re: Old Persia and Iran stamps - How to distingush the fakes?

Post by JozZz »

Ok thank you! :)
I couldn’t find this stamp in the Michel catalogue nor online.

JozZz
Green Star Less Than 10 Posts Member
Green Star Less Than 10 Posts Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 04 Apr 2021 20:07
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Re: Old Persia and Iran stamps - How to distingush the fakes?

Post by JozZz »

I think I might have found it: ministry of finance Revenue stamp. (Bad quality photo but taken from a shopsite). Although, these stamps are supposed to go on a document and mine is on a envelope.
Also have not yet found exactly the same colours yet but I’m getting there.
Attachments
D8A022A1-7AC8-42A5-B4DE-80C9B84F28B1.jpeg
C707DB02-A5D6-4AE2-9664-1583DCD28538.jpeg

JozZz
Green Star Less Than 10 Posts Member
Green Star Less Than 10 Posts Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 04 Apr 2021 20:07
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Re: Old Persia and Iran stamps - How to distingush the fakes?

Post by JozZz »

The picture of 2 chahis doesn’t show two colours but the discription does. So I think this is the one.
Cheerio. 8-)

User avatar
ghool2003
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Posts: 57
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 19:59
Location: Australia

Re: Old Persia and Iran stamps - How to distingush the fakes?

Post by ghool2003 »

Hi again
Your stamp has the word MOTAFAREGHEH (different/various usage)which is different to your colorful catalogue. Yours is earlier revenue.
Fred

JozZz
Green Star Less Than 10 Posts Member
Green Star Less Than 10 Posts Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 04 Apr 2021 20:07
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Re: Old Persia and Iran stamps - How to distingush the fakes?

Post by JozZz »

:D Aha! Okidoki, see if I can have a look in volume 1.

User avatar
eqnox
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
Posts: 1500
Joined: 28 Aug 2008 00:55
Location: USA

Re: Old Persia and Iran stamps - How to distingush the fakes?

Post by eqnox »

With all the fakes out there I hesitate to actually post these. I'm working on putting them in order but they are so far outside of anything I'm familiar with. Do the row of 4's look too clear? They seem too nice compared to the others. I'll try to get a better scan.
Attachments
two down.jpg
top two row.jpg
t bottom 2.jpg
-

User avatar
ghool2003
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Posts: 57
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 19:59
Location: Australia

Re: Old Persia and Iran stamps - How to distingush the fakes?

Post by ghool2003 »

Hi eqnox
I need a much larger scan before saying anything as there are a lot of forgeries of the lion stamps.
With thanks ghool2003

User avatar
eqnox
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
Posts: 1500
Joined: 28 Aug 2008 00:55
Location: USA

Re: Old Persia and Iran stamps - How to distingush the fakes?

Post by eqnox »

Are postmarks typically faked? The ones on the pair look like it might be cut off.

I'll attach a few high res scans to the post. To prevent flooding the thread I'll post the remainder of the photos to the link below. If anyone wants them posted to the board let me know. I can also crop them to one stamp in each image if that is easier.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/gXTJ2y4

I can also grab the simple microscope if there is something you would like to see up close.
Attachments
highscanN.jpg
highscanL.jpg
highscanD.jpg
highscanB.jpg
highscanA.jpg
-

User avatar
StampFinder
Well on the way to 25 post Senior Member
Well on the way to 25 post Senior Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 18 Sep 2014 02:12
Location: Jerusalem, Israel

Is this Iran - Tehran imperf stamp real or fake

Post by StampFinder »

I reorganized some of my stamps and I found this stamp from Iran 1902 and I was wondering if it's real or not.

IMG_20210907_182542.jpg

I have some reservations about the position of the 'T' and also there is a small red dot above the 'E'. I did not find this stamp with red overprint (I found it only with a black one).

IMG_20210907_182603.jpg

Sorry for the poor quality of my camera (I need to buy a new phone, I always spend too much on stamps nowadays :))
Last edited by BigSaint on 11 Sep 2021 09:57, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Place In Line used to remove wording attachments

User avatar
kuikka
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 19677
Joined: 18 Oct 2014 03:17
Location: Tampere, Finland

Re: Identifying if a stamp is real or fake

Post by kuikka »

It appears you have done some search. Good. Would you tell us what catalogues you have searched? Then I know I don't need to check them again.

Also, thank you for including why you think it could be a fake. That makes it easier to help you.

User avatar
norvic
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 22397
Joined: 25 Feb 2008 21:51
Location: Norfolk, England
Contact:

Re: Is this Iran - Tehran imperf stamp real or fake

Post by norvic »

StampFinder wrote:
08 Sep 2021 09:31
, I always spend too much on stamps nowadays :))
What you really need to spend money on is a scanner so that you can provide pictures of a similar quality to others here. :D
Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics - Remember almost everything I picture is available, unless otherwise stated or copied from elsewhere, as I reduce a roomful of 'stuff' - just ask. GB stamps info: https://blog.norphil.co.uk, NPhilatelics on twitter, www norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk for our e-commerce site

User avatar
StampFinder
Well on the way to 25 post Senior Member
Well on the way to 25 post Senior Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 18 Sep 2014 02:12
Location: Jerusalem, Israel

Re: Identifying if a stamp is real or fake

Post by StampFinder »

kuikka wrote:
08 Sep 2021 13:26
It appears you have done some search. Good. Would you tell us what catalogues you have searched? Then I know I don't need to check them again.

Also, thank you for including why you think it could be a fake. That makes it easier to help you.
I use only online stamp catalogs, https://colnect.com/ and https://www.stampworld.com/en/
norvic wrote:
08 Sep 2021 17:52
StampFinder wrote:
08 Sep 2021 09:31
, I always spend too much on stamps nowadays :))
What you really need to spend money on is a scanner so that you can provide pictures of a similar quality to others here. :D

I did not know about scanners, I thought most of the people here have better phone cameras/cameras that mine :D

User avatar
norvic
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 22397
Joined: 25 Feb 2008 21:51
Location: Norfolk, England
Contact:

Re: Identifying if a stamp is real or fake

Post by norvic »

StampFinder wrote:
09 Sep 2021 03:26
kuikka wrote:
08 Sep 2021 13:26
It appears you have done some search. Good. Would you tell us what catalogues you have searched? Then I know I don't need to check them again.

Also, thank you for including why you think it could be a fake. That makes it easier to help you.
I use only online stamp catalogs, https://colnect.com/ and https://www.stampworld.com/en/
norvic wrote:
08 Sep 2021 17:52
StampFinder wrote:
08 Sep 2021 09:31
, I always spend too much on stamps nowadays :))
What you really need to spend money on is a scanner so that you can provide pictures of a similar quality to others here. :D

I did not know about scanners, I thought most of the people here have better phone cameras/cameras that mine :D
Oh gosh! Well this would be a good place to start. Or you could use a basic printer/scanner, providing you also read the instructions provided (and here on the board) about scanner settings and how to get the best results -

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=6785652
.
Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics - Remember almost everything I picture is available, unless otherwise stated or copied from elsewhere, as I reduce a roomful of 'stuff' - just ask. GB stamps info: https://blog.norphil.co.uk, NPhilatelics on twitter, www norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk for our e-commerce site

User avatar
kuikka
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 19677
Joined: 18 Oct 2014 03:17
Location: Tampere, Finland

Re: Is this Iran - Tehran imperf stamp real or fake

Post by kuikka »

SG Part III 1956 appears to list that color overprint. The listing is not detailed enough to say anything about the genuineness of your overprint. Red overprint is SG 330.

Stanley Gibbons Part III 1956 cover
Stanley Gibbons Part III 1956 cover

Stanley Gibbons Part III 1956, listing of Persia
Stanley Gibbons Part III 1956, listing of Persia

User avatar
nigelc
I was online for our Birthday Number 3!
I was online for our Birthday Number 3!
Posts: 5736
Joined: 10 May 2008 02:36
Location: Surrey, UK

Re: Is this Iran - Tehran imperf stamp real or fake

Post by nigelc »

Hi kuikka,

It's nice to see your 1956 SG Part III, especially as it's the centenary edition. :D

I have a similar red Part I from 1958.

SG 1956 catalogue mint price: 3/6, i.e. 17½p in today's money.

SG 2006 catalogue mint price (now SG 223a): £120.00

There are so many forgeries from Persia/Iran from around this time and I'm pretty sure that this is one too. :(

Catalogue overprint pictures aren't always accurate but there are many differences here in the shape and spacing of the letters.
Nigel

User avatar
kuikka
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 19677
Joined: 18 Oct 2014 03:17
Location: Tampere, Finland

Re: Is this Iran - Tehran imperf stamp real or fake

Post by kuikka »

I think also that it might be a forgery, but it is only a feeling. However, I think that I can say that we know now what was it made after, should it be a forgery.

Actually with this era Persian stamps the situation is really messy. Roughly at that time even number of genuine stamps were fabrications, if I remember correctly.

User avatar
AdmiralCollector
PLATINUM Star Serious Stamp Poster
PLATINUM Star Serious Stamp Poster
Posts: 474
Joined: 30 Sep 2015 14:04
Location: Whidbey Island, WA USA

Re: Identifying if a stamp is real or fake

Post by AdmiralCollector »

StampFinder wrote:
09 Sep 2021 03:26

I use only online stamp catalogs, https://colnect.com/ and https://www.stampworld.com/en/
And therein is the problem. Online catalogs may be quick and easy to use, but they often lack essential information.

Perhaps your local library will have stamp catalogs to check out. That is what I do.

The 1956 Gibbons listing shown above by kuikka, and my old Scott Catalog both list the overprint as being in black or red (actually Scott calls it rose).
kuikka wrote:
09 Sep 2021 06:44
I think also that it might be a forgery, but it is only a feeling . . .
Actually with this era Persian stamps the situation is really messy. Roughly at that time even number of genuine stamps were fabrications, if I remember correctly.
kuikka is correct. With Persian stamps of this era you have counterfeit stamps being made; and later someone else, thinking they are genuine, applies a counterfeit overprint.

But, if you have reason to believe it is genuine, you may want to get a certificate on it.

User avatar
StampFinder
Well on the way to 25 post Senior Member
Well on the way to 25 post Senior Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 18 Sep 2014 02:12
Location: Jerusalem, Israel

Re: Identifying if a stamp is real or fake

Post by StampFinder »

AdmiralCollector wrote:
09 Sep 2021 13:01
StampFinder wrote:
09 Sep 2021 03:26

I use only online stamp catalogs, https://colnect.com/ and https://www.stampworld.com/en/
And therein is the problem. Online catalogs may be quick and easy to use, but they often lack essential information.

Perhaps your local library will have stamp catalogs to check out. That is what I do.

The 1956 Gibbons listing shown above by kuikka, and my old Scott Catalog both list the overprint as being in black or red (actually Scott calls it rose).
kuikka wrote:
09 Sep 2021 06:44
I think also that it might be a forgery, but it is only a feeling . . .
Actually with this era Persian stamps the situation is really messy. Roughly at that time even number of genuine stamps were fabrications, if I remember correctly.
kuikka is correct. With Persian stamps of this era you have counterfeit stamps being made; and later someone else, thinking they are genuine, applies a counterfeit overprint.

But, if you have reason to believe it is genuine, you may want to get a certificate on it.
Ahhh, that's terrible to hear because I have many Persian stamps from this era, it's really hard to know which are genuine and which are fake. Unfortunately I don't have the time to take my whole collection and go to the library to check if they are genuine or not (it would take me a week or more to check them all :)). I hope that at least some of them are genuine. I think for now I will focus on my oldest stamps. I wish those catalogs could be found online. I usually buy stamps from flea markets (old stamp albums, sometimes hinged and sometimes in regular stamp albums), I was naive to think that.

kuikka, thanks for the photos, I wish they could have add where those overprints position in the stamp (its harder to see it based on the overprint itself).

Does anyone knows how to differentiate stamp colors (from my small experience that I got so far, there sometimes stamps that have similar colors like carmine and red/pink or violet and dark blue/blue, etc...) I wish I had a scanner scan my stamps but also tell me which colors are my stamp :))

User avatar
Global Administrator
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 64974
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone
Contact:

Re: Identifying if a stamp is real or fake

Post by Global Administrator »

StampFinder wrote:
09 Sep 2021 14:01

I wish I had a scanner scan my stamps but also tell me which colors are my stamp :))

Well for $20 bucks second hand, you can buy a used Canon Lide scanner, as most here use.
.
Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

User avatar
kuikka
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 19677
Joined: 18 Oct 2014 03:17
Location: Tampere, Finland

Re: Is this Iran - Tehran imperf stamp real or fake

Post by kuikka »

Also stamp catalogues can be bought second hand. For 10 years old catalogues your main concern is likely to be the shipping cost, not the price of the catalogues. That way getting even whole world catalogues is affordable. Most of my catalogues are second hand (or third hand or who would bother to count the hands). Then you can use them at home when you have time.

Regarding using scanner to ID the colors, that would be nice but unlikely to happen in the lifetime of my children. There are many reasons for that.
- the stamp might be faded
- the color may have been changed chemically
- the effect of paper and postmark has to be removed
- different catalogues define colors differently
- catalogues are inconsistent in their use of color names
- scanner is not calibrated for color accuracy

User avatar
StampFinder
Well on the way to 25 post Senior Member
Well on the way to 25 post Senior Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 18 Sep 2014 02:12
Location: Jerusalem, Israel

Re: Is this Iran - Tehran imperf stamp real or fake

Post by StampFinder »

.

That actually make sense, too many variables although I wish at least there was a standard with the color scheme.

Global Administrator, thanks for tip I will look into it

Thanks all for your help, it's awesome to see people that still interested in collecting stamps nowadays 8-)

User avatar
kuikka
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 19677
Joined: 18 Oct 2014 03:17
Location: Tampere, Finland

Re: Is this Iran - Tehran imperf stamp real or fake

Post by kuikka »

What each catalogue is worth depends on what you want them for. There are 4 world wide catalogues available. Stanley Gibbons, Scott, Michel and Yvert & Tellier. SG and Scott are in English. Muchel is in German and Y&T in French. Any restrictions with language?
SG is the most "compact" (only 6 big volumes) because it is simplified (=least detailed). Michel is likely most detailed. Y&T has propably the best back-of-the-book listing.
If you are interested in more detailes, you need to look for specialized catalogues. They are usually country specific. And there areas many publishers as there are catalogues.
If you tell what you need, people can and will help you.

Post Reply

Return to “You ask the questions - SOMEONE will have the answers!”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests