Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

General things you want to know. Stamps you can't identify. Catalogue values you need to establish. Advice on ANYTHING stamp related you want. SOMEONE might be able to help. You can post photos of the stamps right here to assist . NOTE: - We have a nearby Forum for basic questions from *NEW* collectors.

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by TonyL »

One more for the experts. Please.

ACSC 96 single watermark, 14.25 x 14 comb perf

Double notch flaw to lest corner of frame.

There is a similar mark in the same position for 96(16)p, but much smaller.

Is this the same variety, although the difference in size? There is more white showing on my copy.

Image supplied taken from ASCS Catalogue 2018 page 4/258.
2d KGV 4.jpg
2d KGV 1.jpg
2d KGV 2.jpg
2d KGV 3.jpg
Look forward to your thoughts.

TonyL.

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by rsellens »

TonyL wrote:
16 Jul 2020 15:35
One more for the experts. Please.

TonyL.
2d KGV 1.jpg

This is 96(16)p in ACSC which is 16R9 State 2.

Confirming constant flaws are as circled.

Shading at left of left value tablet: Break 1/3 of the way from the left in the 25th shading line counting up.

Outside left frame: Fine vertical line 1.5mm long, its upper end 8mm above the bottom frame.

Below bottom frame: Thick L shaped mark , the vertical arm 0.25mm left of left frame, the horizontal arm thicker and longer, being 1.25mm long.

Ross

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by josto »

Hi!

I`ve just a question about KGV imprint pairs or blocks!? ACSC lists them as mint hinged (*) or mint unhinged (**). Does mint unhinged mean, that only the stamps are unhinged, but the selvedge can be hinged, or does it mean, that EVERYTHING (including selvedge and gutter between the stamps) is unhinged? I don`t have many imprint blocks, but for the few ones I have, I wasn`t sure about that!?

Thank you very much!

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by The Pom »

In the introductory notes it says "Unmounted mint monograms and imprints are defined as having no hinges at all, including the selvedge".
Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by TonyL »

rsellens wrote:
16 Jul 2020 17:34
TonyL wrote:
16 Jul 2020 15:35
One more for the experts. Please.

TonyL.
Image


This is 96(16)p in ACSC which is 16R9 State 2.

Confirming constant flaws are as circled.

Shading at left of left value tablet: Break 1/3 of the way from the left in the 25th shading line counting up.

Outside left frame: Fine vertical line 1.5mm long, its upper end 8mm above the bottom frame.

Below bottom frame: Thick L shaped mark , the vertical arm 0.25mm left of left frame, the horizontal arm thicker and longer, being 1.25mm long.

Ross
Many Thanks rsellen, The extra information was very much appreciated.

If you don't mind sharing, from which reference material did you get your info from?

TonyL. :D

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by TonyL »

Help from the experts, Please.

This 1d Green KGV, Mult CofA watermark ACSC82 in pair has a "White scratch over Emu" similar to
ACSC82(4)n position VIII/16. The adjoining stamp that is VIII/15 does not have the variety "Top frame broken left of crown".

based on the above can I discard this pair as not being ACSC82(4)n :?

Extract from 2019 ACSC catalogue page 4/114
ACSC82(4)n-Cat.jpg
ACSC82(4)n.jpg
ACSC82(4)nx.jpg
ACSC82(4)n-bk.jpg
Thank you,
TonyL. :D

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by rsellens »

TonyL wrote:
17 Jul 2020 10:29

If you don't mind sharing, from which reference material did you get your info from?

TonyL. :D
Tony

That information is available in "the George V Twopence Die 1" flaw guide by Parsons, Sandy and Wawrukiewicz.

This is a link to Michael Easick's site where you can see all the flaw guides that are available at the moment. They are generally not cheap and can be obtained from some stamp dealers or you can be on the lookout for them on Ebay or stamp auctions, however they do not tend to come up very often there.

https://www.michaeleastick.com/rsubprod1_2x.asp?MCAT=&CAT=St ... oup=&Cond=

Ross

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by rsellens »

TonyL wrote:
17 Jul 2020 14:43
Help from the experts, Please.

This 1d Green KGV, Mult CofA watermark ACSC82 in pair has a "White scratch over Emu" similar to
ACSC82(4)n position VIII/16. The adjoining stamp that is VIII/15 does not have the variety "Top frame broken left of crown".

based on the above can I discard this pair as not being ACSC82(4)n :?

Thank you,
TonyL. :D
The short answer to your question is YES you can discard them as VIII/15 & 16. The scratch is in a different position for starters.

Ross

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by TonyL »

Thanks Ross on both counts. Will keep a lookout for these books. :D

Cheers,

TonyL.

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

TonyL wrote:
17 Jul 2020 17:29
Thanks Ross on both counts. Will keep a lookout for these books.
TonyL.
Ross forgot to inform you some of these books have revised editions. Those offered on Ebay are often the older ones. For an up to date listing of the avaiable editions check the BSAP website. They have a list of their publications.

Here's their website: http://www.bsap.org.uk/

Here's their publications list: http://www.bsap.org.uk/pages/publications.html
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by TonyL »

Kainnikanada wrote:
18 Jul 2020 03:09
TonyL wrote:
17 Jul 2020 17:29
Thanks Ross on both counts. Will keep a lookout for these books.
TonyL.
Ross forgot to inform you some of these books have revised editions. Those offered on Ebay are often the older ones. For an up to date listing of the avaiable editions check the BSAP website. They have a list of their publications.

Here's their website: http://www.bsap.org.uk/

Here's their publications list: http://www.bsap.org.uk/pages/publications.html
Thanks Kainnikanada, for the update info.

TonyL. :D

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by muttly2011 »

Greg Ioannou wrote:
12 Jul 2020 11:20
These is kind of a cool pair.

Image

Here they are from the front. Boring, eh?

Now here they are from the back.

Image

Both stamps have the frame of the watermark bent in the same way.

Presumably the same plate position, eh? Have watermark varieties like this ever been plated? (Somewhere I have a couple of others with the A in the watermark damaged.)
Greg, I found this one from you back in 2009:

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2236&start=2600
Greg Ioannou wrote:
13 Dec 2009 05:21
Just when you think you've seen everything, something like this penny violet crosses your desk:

Image

A plain ol' penny violet, with an odd watermark quirk -- a big dent in the marginal line, and one leg of the A cut short. Ever seen one of those before? I hadn't!

Here's the front of it. Nothing is catching my eye as platable. Anyone?

Image

Greg
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Greg Ioannou »

Thanks, Muttly. I'd completely forgotten about that one.

I'm puzzling over this stamp. The top left corner has several things going on. The closest I can find is the illustration of 13L19 St 2 (3) in Fiora -- last illustration on the Left Wattles 10 page. This one seems to have the problems with the shading lines, but otherwise isn't a great match.

Unfortunately, the wiki and Guy's book don't have anything on this position.
13L19.jpg

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by colinscovers »

Hi

I had put some of these on earlier in the thread. Finally got round to listing on ebay.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264801480036

Hopefully enough to interest somebody. Mean nothing to me but all have some sort of pencil notation on the reverse to indicate something about the stamp. Condition mixed as can be seen on the scans.

Colin
Attachments
GV front 2.jpg
GV front 1.jpg
GV back 2.jpg
GV back 1.jpg

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by mobbor »

Greg,

Re 13L19.

I am unable to assist. I suggest is is a worn left frame from the left column, and from the date, late in the life of an early red electro. The left column of E.13 is a distinct possibility, but it's not 13L19. This has other flaws in the shading behind the roo and the C.V.T.
mobbor

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Greg Ioannou »

Thanks, Mobbor

That may have been the clue I needed. Maybe 13L31?

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Greg Ioannou »

I feel like I should know this but -- is there a reference book for varieties on the 1½d booklet stamps? Or articles in a journal?

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by mobbor »

Greg,

Definitely not 13L31. I don't think there any plateable flaws on your stamp. Stamps with worn frames are very difficult. The 2005 ACCC checklist does say, in relation to E.13, "A characteristic of this electro in late green and red printings is that the upper frames of the top row of stamps in each pane show extensive signs of wear, the crown tops being almost entirely worn away and the upper sides of the frames ragged and uneven. Signs of wear can be seen on many stamps throughout the sheet." Your stamp possibly comes from the right pane where there are many remaining unplated.

In relation to booklet stamps, the same publication says, " The 1½d green and red were issued in 2/3d booklets, each 3 panes of of 6 and £1 booklets, the latter containing 8 panes, each of 20. All booklets are rare and little opportunity of studying the panes so incorporated has been possible". There has been an excellent publication by Constantin and Fiora relating to 1½d Die 2.
mobbor

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

I've added the following 1d Geo V compartment wiki plate positions from the August 2020 issue of the BSAP "Bulletin":

4-16 Revised
4-17 Revised
4-18 Revised
4-19 Revised
4-20 New
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Greg Ioannou »

mobbor wrote:
22 Jul 2020 08:23
Greg,
In relation to booklet stamps, the same publication says, " The 1½d green and red were issued in 2/3d booklets, each 3 panes of of 6 and £1 booklets, the latter containing 8 panes, each of 20. All booklets are rare and little opportunity of studying the panes so incorporated has been possible". There has been an excellent publication by Constantin and Fiora relating to 1½d Die 2.
Thanks. I'd been using the Forbes book. Didn't realize that there was something more recent.

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Interesting KGV 1d red.. Any assistance to identify would be much appreciated

Post by kai214 »

Afternoon all,
Came across this stamp whilst sorting through some recently purchased items.
Is this a fairly common flaw??
As i am relatively new to stamp collecting and have limited knowledge when it comes to flaws/varieties etc, any assistance from other members with particulars of stamp would be greatly appreciated.

SC/A watermark
perf 14 (as far as i can tell using Leuchtturm perf gauge)
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KGV 1d red variety.jpg
KGV 1d red variety reverse.jpg

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Global Administrator »

Are you referring to the Compartment Line at right?

If so, very common on these.

Glen
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by kai214 »

Yes i am, I had a feeling might be quite common.
Thanks for the reply

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by mobbor »

Kai214,

On the back of your stamp you can see a marginal watermark line on the left. This means your stamp comes from the right column, and this is where most compartment lines on the right come from. Sometimes they are possible to plate, but it's difficult because they vary according to how long in a print run they were produced.

I had a quick look. The nearest thing was 3/18, but it's not because another flaw is not there.
mobbor

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by roninrr »

Kai214, mobbor

I believe it is 3/6 by the curve at the top of the right frame compartment line which starts at shade line R10 (counting R1 as the first shade line from the top of the stamp.

The other possibility (supported by the right margin watermark) is 3/12 which has a similar curve in the top of the compartment line but starting lower down at R15.

Unfortunately the watermark is too high to show the top margin watermark which would confirm 3/6 but the 2 compartment marks are distinctly different.

If you go to the topic "Wiki Australian KGV 1d Red Head Stamp Compartment Marks" to page 4 and look at each of 3/6, 3/11 and 3/12 you will see the difference on the 2nd page of 3/11 which compares the right compartment line of each stamp. You might also look at 3/18 which shows a very straight right compartment line.

I find the publications in this Wiki to be outstanding in helping plate KGV 1d stamps (reds, violets and greens) which is a hobby of mine without a foreseeable end. The compartment lines and marks are so distinctive it is possible to plate many stamps that otherwise have few or no discernible flaws. The publications in the Wiki from Monk, Wajer and Kaigg also list and illustrate all the other identifiable flaws to be found on each plate position so it is a more comprehensive reference than the images and associated notes found on the "Wiki - Australian 1d KGV Stamp & plate varieties" where many of the images do not show the compartment marks.

Although it is sometimes nice to compare a stamp you have plated with a real coloured image rather than a black and white diagram.

Dick Roennfeldt

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by bear0001 »

Please assist with plating on this item ;
KGV 1½d Green Single Watermark have looked at electros nothing like this !
Just over Inking ?
scan0456.jpg

bear0001

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by kai214 »

roninrr wrote:
24 Jul 2020 22:17
Kai214, mobbor

I believe it is 3/6 by the curve at the top of the right frame compartment line which starts at shade line R10 (counting R1 as the first shade line from the top of the stamp.

The other possibility (supported by the right margin watermark) is 3/12 which has a similar curve in the top of the compartment line but starting lower down at R15.

Unfortunately the watermark is too high to show the top margin watermark which would confirm 3/6 but the 2 compartment marks are distinctly different.

If you go to the topic "Wiki Australian KGV 1d Red Head Stamp Compartment Marks" to page 4 and look at each of 3/6, 3/11 and 3/12 you will see the difference on the 2nd page of 3/11 which compares the right compartment line of each stamp. You might also look at 3/18 which shows a very straight right compartment line.

I find the publications in this Wiki to be outstanding in helping plate KGV 1d stamps (reds, violets and greens) which is a hobby of mine without a foreseeable end. The compartment lines and marks are so distinctive it is possible to plate many stamps that otherwise have few or no discernible flaws. The publications in the Wiki from Monk, Wajer and Kaigg also list and illustrate all the other identifiable flaws to be found on each plate position so it is a more comprehensive reference than the images and associated notes found on the "Wiki - Australian 1d KGV Stamp & plate varieties" where many of the images do not show the compartment marks.

Although it is sometimes nice to compare a stamp you have plated with a real coloured image rather than a black and white diagram.

Dick Roennfeldt
Roninrr, mobbor
Thanks for the replies, much appreciated

Josh.

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by StampLearner »

to bear0001

If you are referring to the 'PENCF' in the central value table, here is a similar one in red
pencF.jpg

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by mobbor »

Stamplearner,

I don't know about Bear's stamp, but yours is 14L56 State 3. Flaws include the F, right value shield, bottom frame and A of AUSTRALIA.
mobbor

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by bear0001 »

Stamplearner
Yes I was referring to the Central Value Tablet !
Thank you for your reply and Mobbor thanks again (are you sure its 14L56 I tried to find in my Catalogue to show Stamplearner but not there !)

bear0001

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by mobbor »

Bear0001,

As I said above, I don't know what your stamp is. Apart from the E they have nothing in common. StampLearner's is 14L56. It is in Bill Fiora's checklist, published in 2018, but not in the ACCCofNSW checklist.
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by StampLearner »

Thank you, Mobbor !

As always you are fantastically quick and precise.
---------------
to bear0001,

I'm glad to have been of assistance, if it helped.

Kind regards to everyone

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by mobbor »

Bear0001

Actually your stamp may well also be 14L56, even though there are many differences. As well as the F both stamps have a dot that's between T & H of THREE. It's confusing because it must have been plated just as Bill was producing his checklist. The value tablet and right value shield are illustrated as both 14L56 AND H55.
mobbor

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by StampLearner »

Meanwhile, here is a different stamp, but it has a few similar features, including overinked bottom frame broken in places. 'E' is still visible, but "HA' of "HALF" partly obscured. Also double line in fraction of LVT.
Are those transitory or constant?


bottom margin+ letters.jpg
Regards

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by bear0001 »

Mobbor
Thank you again , I knew you were right as always !

bear0001

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by alex_c_y1977 »

Good afternoon all

Recently acquired the following block - 1½d brown single watermark INVERTED watermark block of four, plated as 3R5, 3R6, 3R11 and 3R12.
1.5d block of four kiss print.jpeg
However, what is interesting about it is that, it appears there are some double / kiss print affecting the block which I have never seen it before
1.5d block of four kiss print - Copy.jpeg
1.5d block of four kiss print - Copy (2).jpeg
Have anyone seen something similar on a 1½d brown KGV single watermark?

Cheers
Alex

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by mobbor »

Alex, you find some amazing stuff. I've never heard of one on any 1½d Die 1. I think you may have another article to write. I'll ask the expert to have a look and let you know what he says.
mobbor

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by StampLearner »

Mobbor,

Could you please comment on the 1½ red stamp similar to 14L56, but not quite the same (see the picture a couple of posts up)?

I'd be most obliged

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by mobbor »

StampLearner,

I had a quick look, but couldn't plate it. I suspect it comes from the bottom row, perhaps even from the same electro. Can you confirm that there is a bottom marginal watermark line, or at least could be- it depends on the location of the crown.
mobbor

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by StampLearner »

Thank you Mobbor,

I do appreciate your answer.

I looked at the stamp. There is no sign of any marginal line on it anywhere, so I guess it is not possible to plate

Kind regards

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by josto »

Hello,

can someone of the experts help me with this KGV 4d blue!? The stamp has a horizontal white flaw (shaped like a triangle notch or break) in the lower right frame fright of the right value tablet. I couldn`t find a matching flaw in ACSC and also not in the KGV 4d checklist, neither for Cooke nor Harrison printings. The stamp has a vertical right marginal line, so it has to be the last stamp in a row! It is dated 1923, so it could be Cooke or Harrison printing. Interestingly I found a second stamp (undated) which also has a frame in the same position. Any help would be great.

Greetings

josto
Attachments
Australia KGV 4d frame flaw 1.jpg
Australia KGV 4d frame flaw 1x.jpg
Australia KGV 4d frame flaw 2x.jpg

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satsuma
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by satsuma »

I believe this is still un-plated; here's a similar but slightly higher example:
4d blue 003.jpg
4d Blue KGV flaw to right of RHS value tablet

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The Pom
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by The Pom »

18R20 State II "White flaw on kangaroo's rump" is listed as appearing on post no-watermark red single-crown watermark printings only.
This looks like as though it could be incorrect. This stamp is No Watermark, and looks like 18R20 to me. Any thoughts? (It's not illustrated in the Wiki).



18R20 White flaw on kangaroo's rump
18R20 White flaw on kangaroo's rump
Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by rsellens »

The Pom wrote:
06 Aug 2020 03:40
18R20 State II "White flaw on kangaroo's rump" is listed as appearing on post no-watermark red single-crown watermark printings only.
This looks like as though it could be incorrect. This stamp is No Watermark, and looks like 18R20 to me. Any thoughts? (It's not illustrated in the Wiki).


Image
Bill Fiora has this as 18R20 state 3 in his flaw guide. The stamp shown in the wiki as state 1 is actually state 2.

State1

IMG_20200806_035140.jpg


State 2

IMG_20200806_033058.jpg


State 3

IMG_20200806_033209.jpg


Maybe some amendments need to be made to the ACSC and the Wiki.


Ross

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by The Pom »

Thanks Ross, does Fiora give any indication of this state appearing on no wmk?
Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by rsellens »

The Pom wrote:
06 Aug 2020 06:30
Thanks Ross, does Fiora give any indication of this state appearing on no wmk?


Pom

I have checked with Bill. This is his reply.

"The stamp as presented is certainly 18R40 State 3.
I have no copies of it in no watermark printings, and have no record of it existing as such.
This does not mean it does not exist, just that we have not recorded it as having been seen."

Congratulations. It appears that you have made a unique discovery.

Ross

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by The Pom »

Thanks Ross, much appreciated, that's nice to know!

It was £5.50 plus post, bought on ebay yesterday. Here's hoping it arrives OK. :)
Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by satsuma »

I've been going through a stash of 1d violets and came across a couple of interesting ones:
KGV Spot on head comparison
KGV Spot on head comparison
On the left 1d Violet which I haven't plated. On the right 4d Blue 2R6.
One wonders why this particular spot should suffer damage on both stamps.

I also came across this which I initially thought was mint.
Maybe mint?
Maybe mint?
But no:- those Post Office workers are cleverer than it seems! :lol:
Reversed postmark on back
Reversed postmark on back
Not socked on the nose but smacked on the back of the head :lol:

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by The Pom »

rsellens wrote:
06 Aug 2020 05:03
The Pom wrote:
06 Aug 2020 03:40
18R20 State II "White flaw on kangaroo's rump" is listed as appearing on post no-watermark red single-crown watermark printings only.
This looks like as though it could be incorrect. This stamp is No Watermark, and looks like 18R20 to me. Any thoughts? (It's not illustrated in the Wiki).


Image
Bill Fiora has this as 18R20 state 3 in his flaw guide. The stamp shown in the wiki as state 1 is actually state 2.

State1


Image


State 2


Image


State 3


Image


Maybe some amendments need to be made to the ACSC and the Wiki.


Ross
You'll like this one.

The stamp just arrived - the flaw was a bit of fluff/paper on the scanner that was absolutely perfect in size/shape/location! :lol:

Not 18R20!
Not 18R20!
Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by bear0001 »

Assistance required with this item please to confirm description & plating if possible ;
2d Red Brown Die I Perforation 13½ x12½ Small Multiple Watermark or is it a die II .
The characteristic left frame is there for the Die I , I just dont know !

bear0001

P.S Glenn this new Stampboards is great ! Fabulous and easy
Attachments
scan0520.jpg

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