Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

General things you want to know. Stamps you can't identify. Catalogue values you need to establish. Advice on ANYTHING stamp related you want. SOMEONE might be able to help. You can post photos of the stamps right here to assist . NOTE: - We have a nearby Forum for basic questions from *NEW* collectors.

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please

Post by rsellens »

Hi Greg

I have already done a version of this as I recently had a few thousand of them to go through. I have been trying to figure out how I could get it loaded on Stampboards.

As I am not an expert on setting these things up on Stampboards I would be quite happy to send you what I have done or share with dropbox if that suits if you. If so let me have your email address and I will send it all to you.

I have used the better examples from Stampboards as well as some of my own.

Image

Image

Image

Image

These images should give you an idea how I have set it up.

Where the example on Stampbords does not show the flaw well or it is not present I have just added a note to the image as in the example above.

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please

Post by Greg Ioannou »

This guy doesn't seem to be H56. It doesn't seem to be H69. But all three of them sure look alike. All have mangled right frames. All of them are right column copies. All of them (this stamp and the H56 and H69 in the Wiki) are postmarked 1925.

Image

Curious.

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please

Post by Greg Ioannou »

rsellens wrote:Hi Greg

I have already done a version of this as I recently had a few thousand of them to go through. I have been trying to figure out how I could get it loaded on Stampboards.
Ummm. Wow! You've already done most of the work. Wow.

Could the people who set up the wiki please comment how we could make this work within Stampboards?

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please

Post by mobbor »

Greg Ioannou wrote:This guy doesn't seem to be H56. It doesn't seem to be H69. But all three of them sure look alike. All have mangled right frames. All of them are right column copies. All of them (this stamp and the H56 and H69 in the Wiki) are postmarked 1925.

Image

Curious.
It's got me beat. The top frame also seems to be affected so I thought it might be No. 6. There are also at least a couple of other flaws I couldn't find. Most notably the broken shade line to the right of the Value tablet and a flaw near the base of the right wattles.
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please

Post by Greg Ioannou »

18R33? The images in Fiora and the Collectors' Club book don't much resemble each other, the one in the wiki is different again -- and this one from the collection I'm merging with mine doesn't really match any of them.

Help! I hope I'm not being too much of a nuisance with these.

Image

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please

Post by Greg Ioannou »

mobbor wrote:
Greg Ioannou wrote:This guy doesn't seem to be H56. It doesn't seem to be H69. But all three of them sure look alike. All have mangled right frames. All of them are right column copies. All of them (this stamp and the H56 and H69 in the Wiki) are postmarked 1925.

Image

Curious.
It's got me beat. The top frame also seems to be affected so I thought it might be No. 6. There are also at least a couple of other flaws I couldn't find. Most notably the broken shade line to the right of the Value tablet and a flaw near the base of the right wattles.
H56, H69, H177 and my stamp all look alike, and are all from the right column. I'm wondering if we're seeing the right column of Electro 20?

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please

Post by Darkice »

Image

Image

Hi Guys,

Looking for some help with this one.

1d Red Smooth Paper (Type 2) Wmk, not listed on the Wiki Data Base.

Small white scratch below kings nose.

Cheers Mal.
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please

Post by Greg Ioannou »

Mal, interesting. That one's not in the guidebooks either.

Greg

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please

Post by heldo1 »

Mal.
Suggest it may be a Tin shed...albeit a minor one....I've got a few like this.
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please

Post by Darkice »

Thanks for the input guys,

I'll make note and move on.

Regards Mal
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please

Post by Darkice »

Image

Image


Help needed again with this one folks,

1d Violet (Type 2) Wmk, not listed on the Wiki Data Base.

Small white scratch above "L" of "ALIA".

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Global Administrator »

Just a note to all, that with today's new huge software update, images up to 1240 x 1240 can be posted - 20% larger than before, and you can take them direct off your phone or laptop etc. :mrgreen:

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Mal,
Re: your most recent 1d violet

No flaw listing in Monk's checklist. Probably another tinshed.

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King George V "errors" on Australian stamps

Post by crosioplace »

Having retired a few years ago, I had the time to go through my hoard of KGV stamps. While sorting through them I came across many errors/variations which were not listed in the Brusden-White catalogue.

How sought after are these stamps? I would appreciate any input from fellow members and my thanks in advance. A sample scan is attached.

I also sent this to Brusden-White many weeks ago and they did not have the decency to reply, very unprofessional.

Look forward to your input.
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Global Administrator »

Plenty of experts above to advise you.

Looks like a simple sharp object scratch on the paper surface to me anyway.
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Allanswood »

Looks like a hair on the plate, or similar, but it's the break in the outer left frame (right near the "hair-line") that might plate the stamp itself, unless that was part of the temporary "flaw".
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by josto »

Hello,

could someone help me with this 1/4p KGV CofA wmk? Is this the variety "flattened top of crown" listed in ACSC as 131f pos. 1L3!? This stamp is quite unusual, as it has such a deep shade, I wonder if it is one of the elusive deep shades 131C or 131D!? I have one other example, which is a really deep turquoise and it`s appearance looks like it might have an aniline content, but these two are definitely two different shades. I`ve scanned them side by side with some "normal" turquoise stamps from my collection, looked at them under daylight conditions, these two stamps really stand out when put on a hagner with all the normal shades (even here the scan doesn`t doe justice to the deepnes and richness of these two shades)! I know, that comments on shades are difficult due to scanning problems, hopefully on day I`ll perhaps be able to show them to an expert! But could it be 1L3?

Image

Image

Image

Image

Any help would be great!

Thank you very much

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by mobbor »

Josto,

All I can say is that it is not 1L3, which barely rises above the level of the top frame...No idea about the shade.
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by josto »

Thank you very much Mobbor! So I`ll put it aside for the shade.

Greetings

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by bear0001 »

hi everyone good to be back !
I need assistance with this item , would like to plate but cannot find in wiki or Dix & Rowntree
The 6th pearl on the right hand side of the crown is missing !
Image
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Greg Ioannou »

Bear, which watermark?

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by bear0001 »

Sorry greg ! Single Watermark and has watermark line right hand side

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Greg Ioannou »

Bear, I'm not having any luck finding it. If you show us the stamps in that piece, we can possibly find a flaw in an adjacent stamp, which will let us identify your guy.

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by mobbor »

I couldn't find it either. Perhaps it is just over-inking.
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by bear0001 »

Greg & Mobbor here is the bigger picture but I agree with Mobbor its over inking !

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

bear0001,
Can we see those stamps from the block posted as singles?
That'll be easier on the eyes.

...and a scan of the reverse to determine the actual vertical position of the watermark.

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by bear0001 »

Look to save everybody the trouble , I have already looked at electoro"s 6/7/8/9 I couldn't see anything
I am happy to stay with the over-inking !


Thank You all
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by casmx »

Hi Everyone - two beers consumed on a nice cool Brisbane Evening.

Researching my water marks for KGV. I came across this KGV OS stamp which i think is SG O129 1d Green. 1932.

I have scanned the Water Mark. I believe its C of A, but to me it looks like the 228 example (ie: reversed) taken from a previous SB post and not WM15 as per SG. I need some expert assistance to help guide me as I am still learning about Water Marks.

Standard mates rates apply ie: one beer. Thanks Casmx
SGO129.jpg

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Greg Ioannou »

Gibbons is showing the watermark as seen from the front of the stamp. The two scans are showing it from the back of the stamp, so it seems backwards.

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by rsellens »

Just beat me to it Greg.

Casmx

Just a bit further explanation.

Watermark 228 is taken from the American Scott catalogue. The yanks always do things differently from us normal people. Australian and British catalogues depict the watermarks as seen from the front of the stamp. The Scott catalogue has depicted it from the back. They are both the same watermark.

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by casmx »

Thanks Glen and Ross. Ross I think you live a little closer for the beer offer.
I will keep hunting.

Thanks everyone.

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Greg Ioannou »

This is supposed to be 15R40, but it sure doesn't look like it to me. Perhaps 23R44?
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Greg Ioannou »

Here's a known 15R40 for comparison.
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by mobbor »

23R44 is a YES, from me.
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by xanthorrea »

Can anyone advise me why Australia issued the GV 1/4 in December 1920? At the time there was no standard postage rate of 1/4 and the telegram rate was not set at 1/4 until October 1923. It stands as an odd rate with no link to any letter or parcel or telegram rate of the time. Why issue a stamp with an odd rate but no apparent use other than as a make up rate - which would have been better served by the existing 1/- and other values amongst the roos?
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by mobbor »

Quoting from the specialised catalogue-

"Usage:(a) interstate telegrams; and (b) make-up rate for parcels etc."

And, "The total printing on Single Watermark paper was therefore 16,640,000 stamps. It should be borne in mind however, that the majority of this issue was used on telegrams and thus destroyed internally within the post office."
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by xanthorrea »

Mobbor,
You missed my point - the telegram rate did not go to 1/4 until 1 October 1923 so why in December 1920 issue a stamp of an odd rate which had no set usage? I agree completely with the Specialised comment in relation to the later use but that does not explain what it was issued for in 1920.
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by satsuma »

There were three telegram rates back then. Within 15km, within the state, and interstate.

On the 2nd October 1920 the interstate telegram rate was raised from 1s to 1s4d for up to16 words.



edit to add "up to"

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by xanthorrea »

Satsuma,
Thanks that would explain it. Can you give me a reference for that change in rates.

The TelegramsAustralia website (https://telegramsaustralia.com/Forms/Regulations/Telegram%20rates.html#Rate_1902) makes no mention of such a rate change and hence my query. it only refers to the October 1923 rate increase.

! Hold that query - from your post I followed up further and managed to uncover Posts and Telegraph Rates Act 1920 (no. 27 of 1920) which changed the rates as indeed you have mentioned to 1/4. See https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C1920A00027. It would appear that TelegramsAustralia have not read the act.

Thanks again for putting me on the right track. This definitely solves the mystery. They changed the rate and so issued the stamp for that purpose. It makes sense now.
Last edited by xanthorrea on 07 Jun 2020 23:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by satsuma »

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/195172678?searchTerm=telegram%20rates&searchLimits=l-year=1920|||l-decade=192|||l-category=Article|||l-month=10

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by xanthorrea »

Satsuma,
Thanks also for the newspaper reference. It just shows that if you ask the question here, someone will come up with right answer.
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Greg Ioannou »

mobbor wrote:
07 Jun 2020 17:36
23R44 is a YES, from me.
Thanks!

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by mobbor »

Sorry...….would have cancelled if I could.
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by mobbor »

This is possibly the weirdest stamp I've ever seen:-

First the back-

Image

The top of the stamp is much higher on the left and you can see the massive creases.

The front-

Image

The right half of the top frame is level with the top of the cross. The creases on the left are clear, and you can follow the line of the almost vertical crease.

All caused by pre-printing paper creases?

(Note: This is using Imgur. The cropping that worked here did not work on Imgbox or the Board's system.)
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by The Pom »

From that scan, who can tell what has happened! I can't see the issue with the upload - just scan the stamp at 600dpi, crop as required using Paint or similar & upload directly.

But some pre-printing crease seems the most likely option, as you suggest.
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by GUTTERS »

Sorry M the crease is after print and after perforation if it was pre-print the perforations would be straight across the top
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Greg Ioannou »

I was trying to identify several Mullett 1½d imprint blocks. As per ACSC, I sorted them according to the distance between the top of the imprint and the bottom edge of the stamps. So I came to this one, with a 5.25 mm gap. Easy -- according to ACSC, only electro 29 has a 5.25 mm gap.
Imprint 28.jpg
Then I looked more closely at the first stamp in the block.
28L53.jpg
That mark at the top margin near the left left corner makes the stamp 28L53, so this is an electro 28 block, not electro 29.

So I checked the Guy et al book. They list the electro 28 imprint at 5-5.25 mm below the stamps. The 4 mm is ACSC is presumably a typo.

So I started looking more closely at that part of ACSC. What else is misleading?

Electro 25 -- ACSC correctly says to check for the break under the E in pence on L60. Useful, but there is a similar flaw in late printings of electro 26.

Electro 26 -- ACSC say "R55 shows a small notch in the bottom frame under left edge of right value shield." But that is true of Electros 25, 26, 27 and 28. No help at all. The notch in the right value shield of R55 seems more useful as an identifier.

Electro 27 -- ACSC has the misleading "small notch" identifier again. But the two flaws on R49 are better indicators.

Electro 28 -- ACSC says "Best identified by elimination from Electros 25, 26, and 27." And that's true -- there are no identifying flaws in the imprint block of 4 from electro 28.So if it doesn't have any of the flaws from 25, 26, and 27, it's 28? That seems to easy. They should also add Electro 29 to the note, though.

And Electro 29, after those four difficult ones, genuinely is easy. L54, L60 and R 55 all have distinctive flaws.

What else am I missing here?

(Once I'm sure I have these imprint blocks properly identified, I'll add the best imprint from each electro to the wiki, as well as any individual stamps that are missing.)

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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by rsellens »

Greg

I don't know whether this will help you or or not. Bill Fiora in the latest edition of his flaw guide shows the white mark in the top frame as being present in 25-28L53. He does not show a similar break to the one in the bottom frame of 25L60 in 26L60 the but shows a break under the "P".

IMG_20200609_0009.jpg
IMG_20200609_0006.jpg
IMG_20200609_0008.jpg
IMG_20200609_0007.jpg

Here is a copy of my Electro 25 imprint block if it is of any help to you.

IMG_20200609_0005.jpg

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Greg Ioannou
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by Greg Ioannou »

Thanks! That confirms my identification of an electro 25 block.

And the block of 6 is still electro 28 because it has no other identifiable flaws on it, I guess.

These electro 25-28 guys make my brain hurt.

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JohnB
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Re: Australia KGV head stamps - HELP from the experts please!

Post by JohnB »

Australia KGV 1d
Australia KGV 1d
Australia KGV watermark
Australia KGV watermark

If I could ask for help identifying this 1d please?

I am new to these, and though it may be obvious to a blind nun, I cannot find one.

It is a single inverted watermark type 2.
14.25 *14.00 comb perf so I think it is SG21, ASCS 71 G10
I have no idea whether it is rough or smooth paper. Now, if I had 2 side by side to compare ...

Many thanks for taking the trouble.
John

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