GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.

How did you fare Gavin?

Bought this one today and hopefully that dot under L is a clue .... does not seem to be lint on my scanner?

Also G box seems to have double line at top and the O on ONE seems a bit fuzzy?



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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by ViccyVFU »

GL is plate 1b

As you say, the dots in the right letter rather rule out the others.

GL_01b.jpg
Nissen Penny Black Plate 1b GL Corner Letters

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Many thanks. :)

Have a less pretty one I'll get around to scanning later if anyone can assist. :mrgreen:
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by pertinax »

Global Administrator wrote:
02 Oct 2020 01:22

Image
It's a re-entry, Glen.

Stunning looker!


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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by gavin-h »

Global Administrator wrote:
02 Oct 2020 01:22
.

How did you fare Gavin?
Glen, in the end I was outbid on the Plate 3 GH. Went for more than I'd've been willing to pay given condition, so no complaints from me.

If only your GL was a GH! As Scott says it really is a stunner!!!

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Gav .. well plenty more out there to look for. :)

Far less sexy looker was in the same stockbook - any guesses to this plate?

GB 1840 1d Black AJ 10-20.jpg
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by W5LDY »

Global Administrator wrote:
02 Oct 2020 04:42
.
Gav .. well plenty more out there to look for. :)

Far less sexy looker was in the same stockbook - any guesses to this plate?

Image
I would take a stab at this one, Plate 6.

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by ViccyVFU »

Yes, plate 6 for me, also. (Five point visible match on the right hand side).

AJ_06_corners.jpg
Nissen Reference Corners - AJ plate 6 - Penny Black

Its barely a 30 second job on nice big clear scans, such as yours.
(Lets just hope its right, eh!!)

(I'm still working on the "Various States" reference array, but as Pertinax/Bill etc .... calls them, I'm updating my reference shots).

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Thanks guys ..... I think it should be on ebay as a ''RAYERRR SALMON EOSIN Maltese Cross''. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by MrBeagle »

This one's on a cover dated 6 May 1844 Northiam to London, an early use of the 1844-type cancellation.

But I'm interested in the plate number--I would like it to be plate 38? But it might be plate 39? or something else.

Your assistance is appreciated.

Ralph

xx plate stamp.jpg

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Allanswood »

Mr Beagle, what's the title of this thread? Your stamp does not look very black to me. :lol:
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by MrBeagle »

.
OOps...I do apologize. Just being too hasty and not reading the topic correctly. Thanks for telling me.

It's not comfortable being embarrassed in front of everyone.

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

MrBeagle wrote:
07 Oct 2020 11:38

It's not comfortable being embarrassed in front of everyone.

Instant Cure - post things in the CORRECT forum below, and you will go all through life here not being ''embarrassed in front of everyone''. For goodness sakes, this is like working in a Creche. :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by MrBeagle »

.
Thanks! This quarantine stuff is deadening my mind!

Ralph

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.

Back to penny BLACKS ..................... :lol:

Any guesses as to this one folks?


GB 1840 1d black CA 10-20.jpg
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by pertinax »

Global Administrator wrote:
11 Oct 2020 00:41
.

Back to penny BLACKS ..................... :lol:

Any guesses as to this one folks?


Image

Plate 1b, Glen.

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Thanks Scott .. I live in eternal hope of fluking a Plate 11 one day in these collections I buy. :mrgreen:

Does #11 have the O flaw? ... maybe I should buy some of that Liquid Paper stuff, add a glob of that on there, and find some ebay Bunnies. :lol: :lol:
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by ViccyVFU »

Global Administrator wrote:
11 Oct 2020 01:29
Does #11 have the O flaw? ... maybe I should buy some of that Liquid Paper stuff, add a glob of that on there, and find some ebay Bunnies. :lol: :lol:
Liquid paper might be able to conceal the extended base line, left and right, on your stamp,
but relocating the A to its new position is going to involve "quite some work" :D

CA_p11.jpg

Matched pair - Penny Black / Penny Red - position CA - Plate 11

(Keep the faith.... they really do turn up "when you least expect them!!)

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Can anyone take a guess at this one please?

Was stated to be plate 4?

It is Inverted Watermark, which adds a lot of bucks, and varies plate by plate a lot it seems?

GB 1d Black INVERT LL 10-20.jpg
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by pertinax »

Global Administrator wrote:
15 Oct 2020 20:13
.
Can anyone take a guess at this one please?

Was stated to be plate 4?

It is Inverted Watermark, which adds a lot of bucks, and varies plate by plate a lot it seems?

Image
Plate 1b, Glen.

Yes, the prices do vary per plate on these - unfortunately plate 1b is by far the most often seen, with pretty much all the other plates significantly more difficult to find.


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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Ha!

For ONCE, I thought it was correct ID.

Seeing I bought it as Plate 4, looked at GB Specialised cat, on Plate 4 pages, that shows the left and right ''L'' letters stating they were ''distinctive'' on Plate 4, and thought BINGO -- they looked exactly correct. (To me!)

As plate 4 is cat 1500 quid more than the cheaper plates, was VERY pleased. For a half hour anyway. :mrgreen:

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Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

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emason wrote:
31 Jan 2019 07:32

The Nissen Penny black plates can be found here:

https://www.spink.com/private-treaty/nissen-reconstructions

Does anyone know if those geniuses at Spink have deleted this handy resource? Does not seem to be there?

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Allanswood »

.
As far as I can see, its gone! And another forum has noted the loss as well. My bookmarked link also doesn't work. WHY!!!!!?

Luckily, I have all of them as the highest res scans (5GB worth). Although some (mentioned by Pertinax previously) were not accurate.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.
My thoughts about the geniuses at Spink remain intact.

WHY would anyone in there delete this? All the time consuming work is done, and cost of hosting is PENNIES a year.

Glen
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Allanswood »

Another project for the Wiki?


Nissen Penny Black Plate 1A AA
Nissen Penny Black Plate 1A AA
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Wiki be darned ... would make a super stand-alone thread if you have the energy to pull it off Greg. :)
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by ViccyVFU »

Allanswood wrote:
15 Oct 2020 22:24
Another project for the Wiki
SOTW - Been there, done that ....


https://www.stampsoftheworld.co.uk/wiki/Category:GB_1d_Black_Plates


You have the black plates, and the red from black plates (sg7)

Enjoy :D

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by ViccyVFU »

Global Administrator wrote:
15 Oct 2020 20:52
.
Ha!

For ONCE, I thought it was correct ID.

Seeing I bought it as Plate 4, looked at GB Specialised cat, on Plate 4 pages, that shows the left and right ''L'' letters stating they were ''distinctive'' on Plate 4, and thought BINGO -- they looked exactly correct. (To me!)

As plate 4 is cat 1500 quid more than the cheaper plates, was VERY pleased. For a half hour anyway. :mrgreen:

Glen
A picture is a thousand words ..... ?

(O.K. Scott managed it to use just three, but sometimes people like to see it visually :D )

Capture.JPG
LL_corners.jpg
Penny Black - All the Plates - Position LL
(Your right L is "too upper left" to be plate 4).

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by honza »

Ahoj ViccyVFU!

You refer to the SOTW website. Nothing to do with Gibbons' SOTW catalogues, I presume. Confusing!

I observed on a different thread that they seem to host Tallanent's GB Postmarks database now.

Are they expanding it, do you know, or is it just frozen for posterity?

an answer here:-

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26976&start=4250

will keep this thread on track

Cheers,

Honza

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by gavin-h »

ViccyVFU wrote:
15 Oct 2020 22:46

A picture is a thousand words ..... ?

(O.K. Scott managed it to use just three, but sometimes people like to see it visually :D )

Image
Image
Penny Black - All the Plates - Position LL
(Your right L is "too upper left" to be plate 4).
You haven't got a GH one of those I could borrow, have you? Please?

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by ViccyVFU »

gavin-h wrote:
16 Oct 2020 04:31
You haven't got a GH one of those I could borrow, have you? Please?
GH_corners.jpg
Penny Black - Check Letters GH - All plates

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by emason »

Here you go Gavin

G-H.jpg


If you would like this full size just email me.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by gavin-h »

Many thanks to you both!

Images saved for future reference. 8-)

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by goof »

I would be most grateful if one of our keen eyed members could plate these two acquisitions please.

1. MH
2. OE

regards
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by emason »

Hello Mike,

I think your 1d black 'M-H' is from plate 5 and 'O-E' from plate 1b.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by goof »

Bill
Thank you for your knowledge, with margins like these I couldn't pass ;)
regards
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by gavin-h »

Good afternoon, team!

I'm after a bit of help with this one, please - a GH of course!
.
GH Penny Black - Possible Plate 4
GH Penny Black - Possible Plate 4
.
The seller states it to be Plate 4, but from the position of the H, I think Plate 5 or possibly Plate 2 is more likely.

I hope the scan is good enough, it's taken from the listing and is the best I can manage. I've straightened it up because it was at a bit of an oblique angle but otherwise kept perspectives/proportions as-is.

Can you please mock / educate /praise me (delete as appropriate!)

Thanks in advance...

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by pertinax »

gavin-h wrote:
02 Nov 2020 23:36
Good afternoon, team!

I'm after a bit of help with this one, please - a GH of course!
.

Image

.
The seller states it to be Plate 4, but from the position of the H, I think Plate 5 or possibly Plate 2 is more likely.

I hope the scan is good enough, it's taken from the listing and is the best I can manage. I've straightened it up because it was at a bit of an oblique angle but otherwise kept perspectives/proportions as-is.

Can you please mock / educate /praise me (delete as appropriate!)

Thanks in advance...
I make it plate 2 but the size of the image and cancel being in the way of the G, perhaps we should get other opinions on it....

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by ViccyVFU »

When does Scott ever call them wrong?

I'd say definitely a plate 2 - (Bottom right and top left match to certified copy)

GH_plate_02.jpg
Query Penny Black vs Reference copy - Position GH plate 2

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by gavin-h »

Thank you for the prompt replies, chaps!

Plate 2 it is!!!

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by PeatedMike »

Yup. I got Plate 2 as well before reading the earlier replies.

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by emason »

My two penn'orth.

1d black plate 2 lettered 'G-H' is one of only 55 stamps out of the 240 which do not exhibit the classic 10 and/or 7 o'clock ray flaws in the NW star by which plate 2 examples are usually recognised. The others are 'F-F' to 'J-L'.
Best wishes,
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by ViccyVFU »

emason wrote:
03 Nov 2020 05:45
My two penn'orth.

1d black plate 2 lettered 'G-H' is one of only 55 stamps out of the 240 which do not exhibit the classic 10 and/or 7 o'clock ray flaws in the NW star by which plate 2 examples are usually recognised. The others are 'F-F' to 'J-L'.
FF-JL is only 35 stamps.....?

(By way of penance, for querying it, I prepared a small montage to illustrate "the typical ray flaws")

ray_flaws.jpg
Typical Plate 2 Ray Flaws on the Penny Black.

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by pertinax »

ViccyVFU wrote:
03 Nov 2020 07:50


FF-JL is only 35 stamps.....?
??

55 is right AFAIC.


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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by ViccyVFU »

Whoops, my mistake :oops:

Whenever I see a range "that looks like a block", I count it like a block, whereas you plate whizzes obviously count it as sequential ....

array.jpg
Positions FF - JL on a Penny Black sheet

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by bowulf »

Is anyone able to confirm the plate number of this stamp. Cover states pl. 3, and it's postmarked on back June 29 1840.

Thanks experts!
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by emason »

Bowulf,

If you could provide a straight, in focus image it would help. Otherwise it is difficult to be certain which plate it is from.

All I can say at present is that 'it could be' from plate 3.
Best wishes,
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by bowulf »

Totally understandable. This is the only image I have from an online listing. I'm considering buying. Hope to produce better image soon.

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Collecting Netherlands Indies postal history 1818-1900
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by ViccyVFU »

bowulf wrote:
25 Nov 2020 13:12
This is the only image I have from an online listing. I'm considering buying.
O.K., working with what we've got then.... (Keystoning and blurriness make it hard to be 100% sure) .....
but ...

Here is yours, blown up

HE.jpg
Penny Black, plate position HE


I tucked that in my reference sheet, between the two most likely plate numbers

he_.jpg
Penny Black, plate position HE, corner letters of all plates

You will see that it falls to be plate 2 or plate 3, but I suspect its the latter, because of the slanting E (Its level in plate 2), plus the frame weakness about one diamond down the right hand side, makes it a better fit to the reference shots I have of that position.

So, on "balance of probability", its a plate 3, based on your supplied image.

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

image0-006.jpg
.

.
GB 1840 1d black JI 11-20.jpg

This one will be tough I suspect, as one can barely see the first letter - can't be anything but a J I'd guess?

On a small piece cut off an entire. Someone has written ''Nine'' on back, but I generally pay no attention to that stuff, but just in case they were right, I am asking here! Might get an extra beer out of this if that is correct. 8-)

Any guesses on this one? :D :D :D


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