NZ 1901-1909 "Penny Universal" stamp, detailed Tutorial

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RolyRJ
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NZ 1901-1909 "Penny Universal" stamp, detailed Tutorial

Post by RolyRJ »

Image

Image
One of my specialities is the 1901 New Zealand Penny Universal stamp.

I am always keen to buy fine used examples of this series particularly multiples and blocks, covers and cards.

Check out my reference site by clicking on my site key.

https://sites.google.com/site/stamps4you2/home/universals

Click on any of the stamp images to give either an enlargement of that stamp or you will be taken to a page giving further details of that stamp. Enlargements will give details of flaws, re-entries, perfs etc.

Can you help by adding to this reference site? If so send me a scan of your material together with an asking price and I will get back to you immediately.

Roly

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Post by GlenStephens »

I sold this one years ago to an American dealer who has it on his website for $US225 - with the weak $US right now a buy I'd say!

Cancelled 1st day of the last century 1-1-01
Image
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Yes I am aware of this cover

Post by RolyRJ »

I have come across this cover a few times now in doing the odd Web search.

It is a nice cover and it is a first day of issue cover as well. The stamp would have to be a London print.

This was quite an event for NZ in that the first day of issue was on New Years day 1901 and so selected Post Offices had to be open in order to have an 01/01/1901 cancellation.

:)

Cheers

Roly

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Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Roly,

I have many hundreds of these but have (so far) not got around to separating them properly into the many w/marks & printings of this issue (which is something on my to-do list) - why aren't there 48 hrs. in day!!!!) :cry:
Tony
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My site should help you.

Post by RolyRJ »

Hi Lakatoi,

Well I hope my site devoted to the New Zealand Penny Universal should hopefull help you sort them out quite quickly.

Click through to the second page of the site and you will find a link at the very bottom of the second page which will take you to a flow diagram which steps you through a process to readily identify each of the various types of perf, watermarks, re-entries, papers, printings, plates etc.

The flow diagram has links to scanned enlargements of the identifying elements of each variation.

You can access this flow chart directly HERE
or you can work your way through the comlete site from HERE

Alternatively, if it is just too much work send them my way and I will find a good home for them :)

Cheers

Roly

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Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Roly,

What a great resource - you can see the mount of effort put into this site! 8)

It took me two years to properly sort through a box of Aust. States checking all for their perfs., w/marks, etc. and was rewarded with several rarities! :lol:

So I must start sorting through the 1d. Dominions tomorrow, or maybe the day after, or......?? :?
Tony
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Universals vs Dominions

Post by RolyRJ »

Lakatoi

I have a huge collection of Dominions as well as Universals.
One of these days I will make a similar site to correctly identify Dominions as well.
I have some really nice exotic material in the Dominions particularly misperfs etc.
If you need any help sorting your material out just give me a yell.
Cheers

Roly

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Dickie Machine Examples

Post by RolyRJ »

TO Anyone reading this thread:

I am VERY interested in anyone who has examples on the New Zealand Penny universal that was used in the Dickie Machine slot vendors.

They can be recognised by the two prominent "drive" holes on both sided of the stamp used to feed the stamp through the machine.

Even better, I would love to find an example on cover.

Anyone out there able to help??

Cheers

Roly.

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Post by RolyRJ »

There were two different types of "Dickie Machine" stamps.

1. Imperf all four sides
2. Imperf two sides and perf on two sides (perf could be perf 9)

Again, would love to have examples on cover.

Cheers

Roly

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Detailed view of the Dickie Penny Universal

Post by RolyRJ »

The following image shows the "tractor feed" holes used to traverse the stamp through the vending machine.

Image
Last edited by RolyRJ on 15 May 2007 12:31, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by GlenStephens »

Roly .. as they can ... a photo says a 1000 words! :idea:

Near pic. Nice dated Feilding cds as well. :D

On this board we've found photobucket.com an absolute godsend .. what issues did you have?
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Problems I have experienced with Photobucket

Post by RolyRJ »

The main problem we had on one of our domain servers was embedded malware, spyware and viruses which came in on images from photomax and photobucket. Still we have firewalls now to sink the proverbial battleship.

I find it just as convenient and easy to point to my own servers. I agree that for those that do not have this luxury then photobucket etc is a convenient way to go.

Another example of the Dickie Coil stamp is the Imperf all round variety as shown below.

Image

Cheers

Roly

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So.... anyone else out there that collects 1d Universals?

Post by RolyRJ »

I would love to hear from anyone else who specialises in this stamp/issue.

It is a great stamp to specialise in as there were millions produced over several issues with various watermarks and perfs on a variety of papers.

Hey now this is novel..... It doesn't cost an arm and a left leg to get a very nice collection of this stamp together. Sure, if you have some big bucks to sink into a specialisation then this stamp will cater for that need as well.

Check out my specialised site HERE and see how easy it is to start. Click on any of the stamp images on any of the pages and that will either give you an enlarged image with illustrated details or take you to another page with further information and details.

I have chosen to use fine used or very fine used throughout my site (just a further challenge) but you may choose to try and replicate what I have shown with NHM :) (make sure you have a healthy wallet though).

Have a good look through my site and you will find a flow chart which will help you correctly identify this stamp. I gaurantee this will keep you occupied for many winter evenings.
NB: I take no responsibilty for the neglected chidren or the divorce rate which may arise should you enter the world of the Penny Universal :wink:

So let's hear from you.....................

Cheers

Roly

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Post by crosscrescent »

Hi Roly,

That flow chart diagram to help identify the stamps is quite something. You must also be a paper expert considering the varieties involved. I remember seeing a few of these stamps somewhere around - might want to try out our flow chart stamp identifier for these Penny Universal stamps.

Cheers

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Post by Blackpepper »

Great site Roly - you must have managed to sneak 48 hours into the day to set it up!!!!
I am concerned about your comments re photobucket as this is a site I use.
I presume this only affects phots you load from photobucket, as opposed to stuff you have loaded yourself?

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Papers can be a little tricky, yes............

Post by RolyRJ »

HI Andrew,

Yes the papers can be tricky untill you have enough examples together to get a set of "standards" to compare against.
I kept that in mind in developing that flow chart so that a deep knowledge of papers is not necessary. If you use the other clues such as watermarks, perfs etc then the papers fall into their rightful place quite easily.

One caution however. The Basted Mills paper can be quite a difficult one with the normal W6 watermark. However with a bit of practise it becomes easier to distinguish it from the thicker Cowan papers.

One of the neat characteristics of the Basted Mills paper is that it was made from rag fibres and so if you grasp the stamp quite tightly on one corner then flick the diagonaly opposite corner with your finger it gives a very characteristic metalic ping sound. I have just about been carted away by the men in white coats at times at various stamp burses by holding stamps up to my ear and playing tunes :lol:

Cheers and thanks for looking

Roly

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Photobucket................

Post by RolyRJ »

Yes Mr Pepper-man,

The trouble we had was at work where several of our staf were downloading stuff from photobucket.
Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world and so on two occassions we were struck with malware/spyware and on one occassion quite a nasty virus.
Needles to say I have since put a block on our servers for anything FROM photobucket.
Using them to upload your images to share on this board should cause YOU no problems. I would still be a little wary in downloading images however.

So where in this fine city do you live? I am out in Howick area.

Cheers

Roly

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Post by Blackpepper »

Hi Roly - my name is Dennis.
I live in Red Beach up high enough to get a seaview. I also get to walk my dog on the beach each morning. The great thing about living in Auckland is that most people are within a short drive of a beach :)

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Post by Blackpepper »

And thanks for the heads up re photobucket.

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Post by stamper »

Oooooh this is like a wee KIWI corner :D
*says Hi to the New Zealanders*
OMG rolyrj I'm in Auckland too :shock:
*waves* to roly ( intense collection you are working on)
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Post by crosscrescent »

RolyRJ wrote:

One caution however. The Basted Mills paper can be quite a difficult one with the normal W6 watermark. However with a bit of practise it becomes easier to distinguish it from the thicker Cowan papers.

One of the neat characteristics of the Basted Mills paper is that it was made from rag fibres and so if you grasp the stamp quite tightly on one corner then flick the diagonaly opposite corner with your finger it gives a very characteristic metalic ping sound. I have just about been carted away by the men in white coats at times at various stamp burses by holding stamps up to my ear and playing tunes
Thanks for that last bit on distinguishing papers. Just trying to image you playing tunes on those stamps - that's a new one.

Cheers

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Bated Mills paper.............

Post by RolyRJ »

Hi Andrew,

A lot of folk get really confused with the Basted Mills paper but there is one real neat characteristic that makes them very easy to pick and that is the watermark.

The watermark for the Basted Mills paper is always one of the W6 variants and is very commonly found as Inverted, Reversed or Inverted and Reversed

If you suspect that the paper is not the Basted Mills paper (ie it is notably thick and has a soft almost fluffy texture) then it can only be a Waterlow paper in which case you have struck gold :)

cheers

Roly

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Post by Blackpepper »

Thanks Roly
I can't say I've spent too much time on this stamp but you certainly seem to have been well rewarded with your study. It is undoubtedly THE best site on this stamp in existence. You need to take credit for that. Campbell Paterson eat your heart out!!!!

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Lots of views on this thread .........

Post by RolyRJ »

Hey viewers on your way through have a look at this double perfed Universal.

Question: Do you have any like this and are you willing to part with them?
They are usually found perf 14x14 with a second row either horizontal or vertical just a little way in from the edge and usually perf 11.

I would love to score a few examples to add to my reference site.

Image

Cheers

Roly

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Post by crosscrescent »

Hi RolyRJ,

Thanks for that added note on detecting Basted Mills paper. Your passion for this stamp really shows.

Cheers

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Viewers what do you have in your stockbooks ?

Post by RolyRJ »

This thread has had more views in Stamps Wanted than any other thread by far .... but .... how about having a little say :)

Maybe this will inspire some activity.

I am looking for Used Blocks of the New Zealand Penny Universal such as the following example:

Image

So what say you ?? Strips of two, three or more are also welcome.

Cheers,

Roly
Last edited by RolyRJ on 03 Apr 2008 07:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by crosscrescent »

RolyRJ,

Be happy that this is the most viewed thread under Stamps Wanted.
Perhaps the others just need a little more time. Happy hunting for this stamp.

Cheers

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Ohh I am happy ... :)

Post by RolyRJ »

Hi Andrew
I am happy with all the views for sure.
I was just inviting those looking on to come on in and have a word or two :)
I would love to see what others have a far as Penny Universals go.
Let's see any perf variations or oddities that you may have.

Cheers

Roly

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Once in a while..................

Post by RolyRJ »

Once in a while a really nice example of the NZ PENNY UNIVERSAL comes to the surface.
The following example has a lot of the attributes that a Specialist in this series looks for.
First of all the stamp in all its glory and then I will show the points of interest.

Image

First off this stamp has the remains for the Printers Guide Lines still visible at the top of the stamp. In the main, these guide lines were removed when the plates were manufactured but a few were missed.

Image

Second, the so called 4 0'clock flaw is clearly shown thus making it easy to determine which plate/printing this stamp must be.

Image

Third, this stamp is a very clear example of a re-entry as shown by the clear doubling of the letters in "ZEALAND" and "PENNY". A close inspection shows doubling over most of the stamp.

Image

Fourth, is the very clear doubling of the letters in "Universal Postage". In most re-entry examples this doubling is quite difficult to detect (especially on used stamps) and usually can only be seen on one or two letters. In this example most of the letters are doubled.

Image

And finally, the real give away to identify this stamp completely is the extended "line through the wrist" flaw. This neatly identifies this stamp as being Waterlow Trial printing with the W1 plate and it is a Type A.

Image

All the above information is more than enough to place this stamp on Row 6 and number 18 along that row on a sheet which was made up of 10 rows of 24 stamps per row.

Thus continues the facination with this series :D
Hope the readers of this thread find this interesting, comments are welcome...................

Click on the WWW logo at the end of this post to visit my web site devoted to this single stamp.... Beware, this could be addictive :wink:

Cheers,

Roly

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Post by gavin-h »

Roly,

That's brilliant!

Thanks for a fascinating post...

...keep up the good work 8)

Gavin

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Thank you

Post by RolyRJ »

Thanks Gavin

It is a lot of fun and this particular stamp is quite easy to get still in quite large volumes. I have well over 5000, many of them are duplicates of course. I have confined my interest to used examples as well. This of course has its challenges to find the examples I need after 106 years !! Mint examples are still easy to find, just have to have a rather healthy wallet :cry:
So..... I am always on the look out for examples particularly on cover.
Cheers from Down Under

Roly

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Post by firstdimension »

G'day Roly.

I asked Stamper about these and he said you were the man for the job. Only got a couple of the plain ones and one with the overprint which is mint hinged. Also have the other sort (daggy edges) without the "Dominion of" bit. Just looking for a rough value on it if that's ok.


Cheers, Rick

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Not a lot..............

Post by RolyRJ »

Hi Rick,

Well neither stamp will reduce the mortgage very much I am sorry. The overprinted Rarotonga would fetch approx $3 - $5 on a good day and the used Dominion about 50c.
Now find the overprinted Rarotonga on cover and genuinely postally used and that will be a slightly different story.
Cheers

Roly

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Post by firstdimension »

Thanks Roly,

Have also taken note of the flaws/varieties etc on the other sort, but don't know which one will pay for the house :lol:


Cheers, Rick

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Now here is a nice find............

Post by RolyRJ »

Back to the future?

Woo hoo thanks to an unattentive moment at the post office 104 years ago (or was it a dyslexic moment?) I can now buy myself a number of "lattes" at the local coffee shop !!

The block below should have been franked as "15 JL 1903" but in fact is franked as "15 JL 1930" 27years into the future at that time.

Image

The block also contains a rather nice example of a re-entry as well thus positioning this block, centered around the re-entry, at stamp 21 along Row 6 in a sheet of 240 stamps made up of 10 rows of 24. The block is also printed on Cowan paper with W7 watermark from a Plate 2 printing just to be complete [and pedantic :)]

Thank you Mr Postmaster....

Cheers

Roly

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Post by crosscrescent »

RolyRJ,

Have been following this thread and am simply amazed at your deep passion and expertise in this just one stamp. If I may share something that just crossed my mind from a meeting with some members of the Philatelic Society of Malaysia, they said that most errors, etc. seem to be discovered for definites but they remarked that in Malaysia, there does not seem to be anyone studying errors for commemorative stamps.

Then they went into quite a discourse of why - mainly the amount of money involved in getting commemoratives and the lesser quantity unlike the definites. Seems to make sense looking for varieties, etc. only in definites whcih cover a much longer period to boot. Happy discovering, accumulating, growing and sharing.

Cheers
Andrew

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Re: Once in a while..................

Post by avarua »

RolyRJ wrote:O

Click on the WWW logo at the end of this post to visit my web site devoted to this single stamp.... Beware, this could be addictive :wink:

Cheers,

Roly
Hi Roly,
and wow what a great site! I'll definitely check my few universals and see if I can spot any rarer ones :D
cheers
JJ

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Beware.... Be really aware :)

Post by RolyRJ »

Hi JJ

Well good luck on searching your Universals. Glad my site is able to help you and glad you enjoyed it.

The following image is the stuff you really want to find to start reducing the mortgage a little :D

Image

Good luck hope your efforts are rewarding. Just yell if I can help.

Cheers

Roly

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Now this is a tasty block

Post by RolyRJ »

J J, Andrew et al

A few more blocks such as this will certainly reduce the mortgage :)

Image

If anyone wants a little more explanation as to how/why this double perfing happened then lets know and I will put together something here.
There are a number of interesting scenarios of tis type and makes a facinating study.

Cheers

Roly

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Post by crosscrescent »

Roly,

Don't have anything like what you are showing but don't stop with the information. Someone may just find something if they know what to look for. Thanks so much for all this work you have been putting on Stampboards. Want you to know it is appreciated even though we don't have any scans of this stamp to share here.

Warmest regards
Andrew

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Latest aquisition..................

Post by RolyRJ »

A very nice block of 16 (4x4) with selvege. This block is certainly up to exhibition standard and has two examples of re-entries on it. There is also at least one value block retouch. But the outstanding feature is the marks on the selvege which shows that this block is from Plate 4 and the Royle print. A very nice find (and darned expensive) to add to my collection.

Image

Cheers

Roly

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Post by crosscrescent »

Hi Roly,

Took a closer look at your identifcation of the stamp using the printers guide line, 4 o c'clock flaw, severe doubling of letters (2 places) and line through wrist flaw to identify the stamp on a specific position on the sheet. That's simply mind-boggling. Really calls for very serious study of the NZ Penny Universal.
I can imagine this would make an interesting article to entice people to seriously collect these stamps.

Cheers
Andrew

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Plate Notes

Post by RolyRJ »

Hi Andrew,

Here are the Plate Notes I use for just ONE of the many Plates that were used. All the various lines, marks, dots etc that can be found on a sheet printed with this plate can be found here. The numbers indicate which stamp on the sheet has the various marks. For example the diagonal line through the wrist can be found on stamp 13 in row 1. Each sheet is 240 stamps arranged in 10 rows of 24. So with the notes here I can just about place any stamp in the sheet.

Image

Does this inspire you to get into the study of a stamp somewhere? Or does it scare you off :(

Cheers

Roly
Last edited by RolyRJ on 24 Sep 2007 12:48, edited 3 times in total.

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crosscrescent
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Post by crosscrescent »

Roly,

Its inspiring (discoveries to be made), awesome (this is a tremendous task) and frightening (my eyesight will probably go) but you sure opened up many doors that I did not expect to even find in the world of philately. Thanks.

Warm regards
Andrew
Last edited by crosscrescent on 12 Jun 2007 13:05, edited 1 time in total.

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sherro
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Post by sherro »

Roly,

Terrifying is the word, and if I didn't love philately and admire your perseverance, the word "trainspotting" would have to come to mind! :wink:

Is there a standard work on the Penny Universal? Did you write it? If not, why not????

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crosscrescent
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Post by crosscrescent »

Roly,

I really have to agree with sherro there. That knowledge would be wasted somewhat if not recorded in a book for posterity.

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RolyRJ
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Publication....... hmmmmm

Post by RolyRJ »

Hi sherro and Andrew,

Well yes there are a few publications out there and very good ones as well. But (there is always a but) they are more targeted toward the specialist collectors rather than the general but interested collector. Many collectors who collect NZ will certainly have this stamp as it is not all that expensive particularly used. However there is always more than what meets the eye with this era of stamps and so I thought it would be interesting to show people how varied this particular stamp can be. So how best to do that? I don't think that a general collector would bother to buy a book to find out all the variations of this stamp but they may just have a casual look at a web page (and then get hooked :) )

So I decided to go the web site way. Well the nice thing about a web site is that you can illustrate the differences very easily with scans unlike publishing in a book which can rapidly become very expensive. As they say a picture tells a thousand words.

Now most of the books I have for reference work and those that I have read simply describe the stamp and its unique markings and leave it at that. This can be very confusing and very frustrating indeed. For example I could say that stamp 1/15 of Local Plate 3 in the "Dot" plate series has a left hand rosette retouch from 8 o'clock to 11 o'clock. That means something to those that are specialists or have seen this flaw, to others it is meaningless techno-talk.

It far better, I think to show it like it is:

Image

Then just to save confusion still, zoom into the target area like so:

Image

Here the retouch is clearly illustrated so that in future if a reader comes across a description as above they know where to look and what to expect.

And I think I am rambling.....................................

Thanks for the input, it is very encouraging.

Cheers from New Zealand

Roly

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gavin-h
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Re: Now this is a tasty block

Post by gavin-h »

RolyRJ wrote:J J, Andrew et al

A few more blocks such as this will certainly reduce the mortgage :)

Image

If anyone wants a little more explanation as to how/why this double perfing happened then lets know and I will put together something here.
There are a number of interesting scenarios of tis type and makes a facinating study.

Cheers

Roly
Roly,

Thanks again for this BRILLIANT thread. It's about a million miles from my collecting interest in some ways, but VERY close in others...

...there have been a number of posts elsewhere on the board about double- or misplaced-perfs, so I think if you could provide an explanation here it would be much appreciated.

Regards from England!

Gavin

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The challenge is on then :) ....

Post by RolyRJ »

Ok Gavin I will put a small article together and post tomorrow (or there abouts)
Cheers from the Antipodes

Roly

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Post by gavin-h »

Thanks, Roly...

...I'll look forward to that 8)

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