Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

General things you want to know. Stamps you can't identify. Catalogue values you need to establish. Advice on ANYTHING stamp related you want. SOMEONE might be able to help. You can post photos of the stamps right here to assist . NOTE: - We have a nearby Forum for basic questions from *NEW* collectors.

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Robert1
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Re: Some Advice for Inherited Collections

Post by Robert1 »

GlenStephens wrote:
Robert1 wrote:
I asked how much the chap wanted and he replied $85 I thought that was decent. Nothing special in them, but as postage they were good and I could sell the 6 or so that were in pristine condition.

Well wasn’t I wrong. He meant $85 each!

How does one go about advising these kinds of people in the nicest possible way that their "treasure" rally isn’t that scarce and valuable?

Any hints / tips?

Rob.
Well tip #1 from me anyway is never ask a seller what they want - as you did. :lol: :lol: :lol:

That creates an impossible situation when he says $85 each and you really think $10 each is fair given bad condition. A deal will never occur in that situation.

It all comes down to experience I guess, but in 30 years I have never asked in 1000s of transactions what a seller wants.

If a box is worth $500 to me, I offer $500 cash.

I might get told "that's great, I'd thought they only be worth $100 or so" - or - "that's not great, I'd thought they only be worth $1000 or so"

Either way, I buy the stamps in 99% of cases. In the latter case pointing out the foxing and poor condition you mention carries the day most often. Owners seldom are aware of foxing and rust until it is pointed out.

So I'll say in this case "yes, if I could wave a magic wand over these and make all the foxing vanish, I'd gladly offer twice as much."

In the latter case if I asked and was told the seller wanted $1,000 and I then offered $500, it creates a very uncomfortable situation, and when a husband/wife are here, it becomes a bit of a "loss of face" scenario then. BAD news all round.

Fair experienced buyers know exactly what to offer. As long as it is fair, it generally works out well. I've done this big time for over 30 years, generally daily, and seldom do not prevail in buying collections.

If you are fair and decent, people sense it, I think. And remember I often see the box after it has been shopped to 5 other dealers who try and pick and choose and cherry pick the lot - not many an all-up offer as I ALWAYS do. Sellers want a fair price for it ALL, not just the good pieces.

Glen

Sound advice, thanks Glen.
Warm Regards, Rob, If you have time, please visit my blog: http://sparetimecollector.blogspot.com/
Collecting: Fine Used Australia 1913 - Current | Australian Territories | Hong Kong | Malaya/Malaysia | Straits Settlements

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Re: Some Advice for Inherited Collections

Post by patg »

mcgooley:

Haven't forgot what I said I would do. Could only do so many pages a night. Have done with the soaking and drying, now on to the sorting and cataloging.

I remember now why I like covers; "I HATE SOAKING STAMPS! :lol: :lol: "

Some surprises, some disappointments, but now the fun begins. Hopefully be done this weekend (depends on the honey-do list).

Best to all,

pat
mcgooley wrote:patg; I like your idea :D

A working example of "Aunt Jeannie's" collection (keep this up and we'll have to make her a member here :lol: ) would be a great way to show what can (or not) be found in a 'kiddies collection'.

It would also (I hope!) show that even where there is something of value, it takes time and research to bring it to light - just as Doug's last post indicated.


What I'm hoping - and I think Muruk intended when he suggested a thread like this - is that, collectively, we might be able to shed some light on the 'dark secret' of stamp collecting.
:D "I don't have a lot - But I like what I got" :D

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Re: Some Advice for Inherited Collections

Post by waroff49 »

With stamps and collections, many good points have been made so far.

Catalogue values are just that- selling price ranges for dealers NOT for people selling to dealers. Catalogue prices may not be MARKET prices, which may be above or below the price in the catalogue.

Many recent (last 30 years) values are worked out on a nominal value, no allowance is made for self-adhesive and sheet stamps where one maybe far scarcer than than the other type.

STAMPS.
Condition is all important. Dirty, off-centre, perfs missing ( or cuts into the margins of imperforate stamps), foxing, stains, toning all tend to DECREASE the value of the stamp ( or collection).

Mint stamps are devalued by hinge marks or no gum ( apart from some countries' issues which were sold ungummed.)

Forgeries/Reprints- are often worth next to nothing. However there are some forgeries which are as much as the original issues or more but these are generally limited to major master forgers.

Cancellations/Postmarks.

Fiscal cancellations are those used by Govt departments to collect TAXES as duty paid on goods or services. Most High face value stamps ( for the period of use) will be fiscally used/ transmission of telegrams. although they could be used for postage or revenue (fiscal). Because of use as fiscals many more were used than for postage so their use (scarcity) is a lot lower and so are their prices. Some catalogues note that it is for fiscally used copies. Some countries had separate issues for fiscal stamps and postage.

Remainder Postmarks. ( and more lately CTO's)
These are 'killer' type cancels applied to the corner of the stamp, to deface them so they could not be re-used. Thy were often used by smaller countries/states to rid themselves of out of date stamp issues and provide income. These were sold at a lesser price to collectors and packet makers.
These decrease the value of the stamp. Modern one have the postmark printed on them.


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Re: Some Advice for Inherited Collections

Post by waroff49 »

Cancellations can be a killer or a boon to a stamp. A heavy obliterator type cancel can make a stamp useless or multiply its value by many times. Especially on older stamps in the QV and KGV era. ( or their equivalents in other country collections.)

A common postmark on a common stamp may be worth 10c but a rare postmark on the same common stamp may be worth hundreds of dollars. The problem is, that requires specialist knowledge and specialist catalogues which often the person inheriting a collection does not have ( or even the person collecting it.)

Often in the past there have not been specialist catalogues with rarity ratings for postmarks and they went un-noticed. As an example- there have always been collectors of Victorian barred numerals. They were a select group. Then a catalogue of Victorian barred numerals came on the market and this had several effects:

1. The previous collectors could now quantify their holdings and new collectors could see their relative scarcity ( at that particular time).
2. New collectors had something to gauge against and look for new material.
3. Because new collectors were looking for material, supply and demand took over and prices rose quickly ( especially for the rarer material). Demand rose but supply was fixed to those who had already accumulated stock.
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Re: Some Advice for Inherited Collections

Post by mcgooley »

As always, and for anyone inheriting - or acquiring - any collection about which they know nothing; the first rule should always be......what do you intend to do with it?

You've just inherited Aunt Jeannie's stamp-books (and patg will expand on her collection later); or Grandad's albums of machine cancels; or Uncle Bob's volume of all-world stamps to 1940; or your mother's 3 cartons of Victorian cancellations (in absolutely no order whatsoever); or your late brother's two books of mint duck-hunting sheets; or Great-aunt Mildred's carefully annotated collection or barbed-wire samples from the 19th Century; or whatever.

Maybe you picked up a box of interesting looking material at the local junk sale and found an album of Pokemon cards (or comic strips, or...) down the bottom.

Do you look at these as your ticket to the easy life?, or as a memento from someone.

As was mentioned earlier: a collection of anything is only going to be worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. And stamps, or postmarks, or postal history, are no exception.

In this day and age, it's my belief that too much importance is placed on the monetary value of collection 'X' (as was clearly demonstrated by Glen previously) without taking into consideration any other value.

If you do want to become an instant millionaire, buy a winning lottery ticket.

If, on the other hand, you want to enter a world where you never stop learning and each day shows you the wonder of the world around us: try adding to your inherited, or acquired, collection of stamps, or postal markings.

This was forcibly borne home to me today. I was asked to value a collection left to a person who had no knowledge of stamps. It turned out that the collection belonged to a lady who had been active as an ambulance driver during WW1.

The stamps, and covers, themselves were rather ordinary - but; the cancellations gave a graphic account of "aunt jeannie's" travels during her tour of duty. 'Junior' wanted to know the monetary value only - when I pointed out the significance of the collection, he was highly dismissive.

I do not know what 'junior' will do with what he has on his hands. With his attitude, I wouldn't be surprised at anything he did. His asking price was well out of my range and, to anyone not interested in the field, he will have difficulty selling this collection to anyone other than a specialized collector.

Shame, really. There is an enormous amount of family history in his hands, that he doesn't give a hamster's rear end about.
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Re: Some Advice for Inherited Collections

Post by patg »

Hello to all:
I thought I was all through, then I found I had forgotten one last drying book. So you won't think I had been making it up, I decided to put up one to demonstrate what I have been doing. One thing is for sure, If I was paying myself by the hour to do this, I could not afford my rates.
You have to enjoy working with stamps; of learning the history, the mystery, the chance of discovery, learning of far off places, and places no longer there.

Working with this old Schaubek album (I placed the published date around 1932), I tried to form a picture of who had filled it pages.
I pictured a young German school boy, maybe 10 or 12 who had received it as a present for Christmas or a birthday. The stamps had been placed carefully, all with good hinges. The last stamps placed in the album were about 1937/38. At that point the album was put away, and the young boy now 18 or 19 was taken up by the events that were now taking place in Europe.
By chance it survived the war, and where it rested for the next 70+ years is anyone's guess.

Somehow it ended up in the the bottom of a box lot in California, looking very much the worse for it's wear. It had lost the front and rear cover, and the pages had yellowed with time. No telling how many times it had been picked up by one person or another, then tossed into this or that lot as having no value that could be quickly seen in a few flips of a page.

When I first took this on, I was under no illusion of finding anything of great monetary value, but I could see there were issues that were worth saving, and in the future being put into someones new album to start a new life for future generations to enjoy.

One of the first reasons for doing this was to show people who had found/inherited an old album (Aunt Jeannie's), and would see that just because it's old, doesn't make it worth a lot in terms of money. But, also just because it looks common, doesn't mean that it's without value, and with a bit of detective work and the proper tools (catalog, perf gauge, watermark detector) you can find some hidden gems.

I like the editor's introduction (Herr Lucke of Leipzig):
Image

Here is a before (I had taken a few off before I decided what to do). You can see the pages were very toned, and I had to change the soak water after each page (more on that later).
Image

And The after:(2002 Scott cat.) 55-$3.25, 129-$11.00, 158 ($3.00)stain,166-$3.50, 174-$3.50
total:21 issues, no badly damaged. (I just noticed they are not in proper order :oops:)
Image
The 2Kr will be added to my collection.

All for now, past my bedtime, will put up more soon.

Best to all & enjoy your collection for what it gives you,
pat
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Re: Some Advice for Inherited Collections

Post by mcgooley »

While patg is getting his/her beauty sleep, I'd like to share the story of three members of our club who, sadly, passed away recently.

The first was a gentleman who knew his time was limited. He had no family, and made the conscious decision to sell his collections. He was a "Postal Historian", and collected classic, and modern, postal history; which included everything. This included things like cinderellas, registration labels, instructional markings, and covers with odd looking postmarkings. The unsold portions were donated to the club when his time came.

The second gentleman did have family, and instructed them to contact the club to arrange for the disposal of his collection, as no family member was interested in stamps whatsoever. Sadly, although this gentleman's collections were extensive, they were of little value overall. Refer to Glen's comments above.

However, with much time and patience by a senior club member, order was restored to much of our second friend's 'accumulations'; and by being sold in the right order and manner, a respectable result was achieved.

Our third member who passed away had a fairly limited collection. This involved about 4-5 albums for the main part, along with every stamp collector's favourite - the number of cartons of "job-lots" that we'll get around to sorting.

This member had left specific instructions regarding the albums. Our third member had inherited these albums, through his father, from his grandfather. Given his age (85+), you begin to get some idea of the age of the albums (Stanley Gibbons, 1st [and 2nd and 3rd] editions Great Britain; not to mention the sheets of stamps bought by the grandfather, stored in primitive storage books) and the items contained. These albums were instructed to stay in the family.

These albums are/were stored in a plastic box, in a shed, on a farm.

No temperature control; no humidity control. The family members involved had absolutely no idea of what they were looking at - they had never bothered looking at these things because they weren't interested.

Even with less than 6 months of less than ideal storage, the albums are starting to show signs of ageing. Instructions have been followed to halt the damage, but everything will now have to be rehoused. Acid-free paper was unheard of 130 years ago - 'ghosting' has started to appear around the stamps and covers - but it is possible to secure this collection for future generations.

One of the family members (a historian by trade) has engaged to rehouse the collection on proper archival paper, using modern technology to achieve as close to the original as possible. A stamp collector? - definitely not (or so she says :wink: ) but, gee!, she's now starting to look at the humble stamp in a whole new light.
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Re: Some Advice for Inherited Collections

Post by patg »

To solve the first mystery he is a his :D
To the second, there is not much beauty sleep involved when the alarm goes off at 5am (not that it would help).

To the task at hand:
There was not much to be had in Aus & States. But, these will serve as a good example of where to start and how to plan going forward.

As was stated further down the thread, know where you want to go, before you start walking.

One of the first things to consider is: Is there any reason to keep the album intact? There may be historical or sentimental reasons that override the value of removing any stamps. Or, if the album and stamps are in good condition you may want to continue with the collection as is.

If the album has already started to be remaindered out, and especially if it looks in the condition this one was in, you will want to remove the stamps (in this case, as quickly as possible).

Before you do:
Some of the things you want to look for: are there any unused (mint) stamps that are well hinged and not stuck down. You should try to remove them, and if you can, gently remove the hinge without causing a thin to the stamp. I will leave it up to debate if at this point is it better to leave a hinge remnant, or wash and remove all gum (the answer probably is:"It depends"). Or, as sometimes we see, several layers of hinge remnants.
Another to be aware of is if there are any stamps with fugitive inks, pen cancels or colored papers that would run if put in the water.
There are many good threads here and elsewhere on how to soak stamps.

These six were on an outside page and (I think) exposed more to the elements, and as a result were pretty much toned, and also have other various small faults. They may be fine for a beginning collector, but you would want to replace with better examples as they came along.
If you do end up replacing them, there are three that have have interesting cancels that could start a second collection.
I'm no expert on Victoria cancels, so if any are RRRR, feel free to tell me :) .

I think for the beginning collector these types can be a problem at first, with the wide variety and combination of perfs and watermarks it can be hard to set the correct catalog number. The reason the one is in a mount is because on first look I thought it was a perf variety, but a closer look and reading the catalog fine print turned out not to be.
Image

That's about all I can do right now. I have a five day break coming up, and plan to add much more during that time.

(mcgooley): Is this what you had in mind? Comments / suggestions?

Best to all,
pat
(on edit) P/S- mcgooley: thanks for the three stories, they are lessons for all of us.
:D "I don't have a lot - But I like what I got" :D

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Re: Some Advice for Inherited Collections

Post by mcgooley »

patg, great post 8)

Your points about the albums will hopefully make people stop and think about them along with the stamps in question.

Assessing, and/or caring for, someone else's postmark collection can be enormous fun....or your worst nightmare :shock:

Waroff's remarks further up the page give some idea of the complexity, and the traps, of this area of philately. It is another area where advice should be sought. (By the way, the Victorian 1d Pink is sporting a rather uncommon issue of Macarthur's 377 :wink: )

I think you're doing great!!!!!
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Re: Some Advice for Inherited Collections

Post by waroff49 »

O.K. From my poor eyesight, the 377, Macarthur is a non-duplex and rated 'R'.(51-100 examples known). An excellent find.

The X23 is a much harder stamp to identify- it could be ,323 ..................etc. Mcgooley may be able to tell which one from the size and formation of the 23.
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Re: Some Advice for Inherited Collections

Post by patg »

waroff49 & mcgooley:
Thanks for the replies and I.D.'ing the cancel for me. It is always nice to find something you have shown has a bit more interest and rises slightly above the ordinary.

And with that I understand the feeling someone new has coming into the hobby. They've heard the stories about someone finding grandfather's old album and getting thousands of dollars for a few stamps.
And look, they found an album their dad had, and it has a stamp that looks kind of like the one in the picture.

Well, unfortunately their album may look like this:
Image
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At that point they are told by (this board, stamp dealer, some other collector) that what they are showing is not worth anything.
While that may be, depending on how the person is told that will determine if the person looks for more information, or tosses it aside and asks no more questions.

While it may be true that some who come asking are only looking for the quick ($ £ € ), others are truly babes in the collecting woods, looking for help and guidance. The difference, by the questions asked, will readily be apparent.

I think it is in all our best interests to bring as much new blood into the collecting club as we can, otherwise all we will be left holding is colorful bits of paper of value to no one.

On closer inspection we can see, while many are damaged, there are many worth saving. With a bit of work and patience, they can be salvaged and presented as a collection ready to be added to.
Image
Image

Now you can start to be drawn into the history of the stamps, the reasons they were printed, where they came from, why those countries are no longer here. The colors, cancels, perforations, watermarks. Or, you like trains on stamps; cats, dogs, trees, flowers, maps. All are great ways to enjoy the hobby. While there is no wrong things to collect, there are wrong (not good) ways to collect (but that is a skills question we can talk about later).

For now what you should have are (stamp tongs, stock book, magnifying glass), later you will need (access to a catalog, perf gauge, watermark detector and stamp album if you wish)

All for now, I'll be back with more discussion about the collection.
Here's a quiz: can you pick out the one that catalogs $20?

My best to all,
pat
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Re: Some Advice for Inherited Collections

Post by mcgooley »

patg wrote:Here's a quiz: can you pick out the one that catalogs $20?
Here, I'll show my complete ignorance on stamps outside my own collecting area (and also my ignorance on pretty much everything!). Of all the stamps on the pages, the only ones that caught my eye were the used hyper-inflation overprints....and the perfin :roll:

I've seen complete collections of the overprints before, but I don't think I've ever seen more than a couple of used examples. Monetary value or not, that would make them special to me :D
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Re: Some Advice for Inherited Collections

Post by patg »

mcgooley:

That stretch of time is a tough one. I'm no specialist, but I do like the period. I have my Michel in hand, and do the best I can with Google translate.
Of course the $20 one is the one I'm most suspicious of (looks too nice), but I'm hopeful since the book was intact and all seemed to have been placed there in period. Of course now that it's out of the book, that reference has been lost.
The other inflation period ones are all in the $1-$3 range and look more like the cancel you would see on a typical period letter.
There are other threads on this board that also cover this topic very well.

You would think someone would not waste their time post cancelling the common used ones, but I've seen a box full of unaddressed covers full of the inflation period stamps all with very neat cancels just waiting to be soaked off. (I wish I would have got a few for reference now).

Also, it does not help that there are literally (tens of ?) thousands of these in full sheets just waiting for someone to have a bad idea. I have ~75 of the full sheets in a box here someplace, to which someday I'll get to looking for plate variety's.
So I guess the only way to be sure is collect them on in-period covers, and even then have the more expensive ones evaluated.

Thanks,
pat
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Help needed on these Great Britain album pages please.

Post by RockySC »

I am am going through the album I have mentioned on here before and I need help on these pages of Great Britain stamps. What should I be looking for? Do you experienced collectors see anything of note here that I should focus on? Thanks in advance!

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Re: Some Advice for Inherited Collections

Post by patg »

I've been meaning to tell the story about the young stamp collector (name withheld to protect the easily embarrassed), who one day found a pack of letters in the back closet. Because he was sure no one would mind, he decided to tear off all the old different stamps he had found to add to his meager newly acquired (he was sure his brother had not even missed it once, yet) collection.

Years later he was to find out his grandfather had been a sailor serving on-board the USS Brooklyn, stationed at Vladivostok Russia (Siberia) during the Russian revolution in 1919. And the letters were from a girl he had met there.
Years later he would realizes it would have been better if he had left the stamps on the envelopes and taken better care of them. :(

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Don't be in a hurry with what you find, you can always take them off later when you find out what you really have. It's much harder to try and put them back on.(I've tried) :lol:

Best to all,
pat
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Re: Some Advice for Inherited Collections

Post by hutch »

I have read this entire thread a few times now. I have found it extremely interesting and informative!

The only problem I have, is that you need to be able to connect with every stamp collector...serious or just hobby collector...to this site so they can get advice on how to leave instructions for the inheritors of an estate. Probably an impossible task! If you know a stamp collector...tell them about stampboards...carry it on!!! I have commented on another thread about the thousands of stamps some friends found blowing around the tip one night from a deceased "clean up". :cry: they did manage to scoop up lots and between 3 collectors we probably got close to 300 stamps each!

Surely, everyone who has visited this forum has some idea of what needs to be done with their collection...I know I do....but finding someone who is remotely interested in my collection is the hard part!! Our 5 girls, are always saying 'Oh Mom, are you still collecting those little bits of paper?'

Well, regardless of whether they are interested or not in my stamps, on the first page of every albumn will be a notice of a link to this board for advice. And for specific areas or countries, I have left further specific instructions for the stamps, covers, whatever to be sent to a certain person to be divided up between other like collectors that I know are interested in those items! Like my Indian State Stamps!

There are still a lot of older collectors out there that do not have/don't want, internet connections and their family either don't want the stamps/haven't got time to research the stamps/ just plain out couldn't care about the stamps, and because they have no interest, think it's all rubbish and that is exactly where it ends up....in the bin! Or :lol: try to sell it on Ebay!!!

Ah, stamp collecting is full of perils! We love the challenge BUT we need to make sure our treasures go to someone who appreciates the challenge...not the tip!

I would far sooner give my entire collection to a young collector that is showing enthusiasim than leave it on the shelf for the girls to throw out! Not that they would, but you know what I mean!

And I'm sure in the long run it would end up in a cat fight because so and so got the really valuable one...the proverbial "I can't read the catalogue but it's old so must be worth a fortune".

After that rant, I'll leave you guys and girls to make some more sane posts!

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Re: Help needed on these Great Britain album pages please.

Post by doug2222usa »

There are a few stamps that catalog a few dollars each. I do not see anything over $5, however. Your local library should have a set of Scott Catalogs, and for this group, even a set 5 years old will suffice. Most of these stamps would be easy to look up, with a minimal number of varieties.

Ideally, for positive identification, album page scans should be no more than about "4 stamps" high and "4 stamps" wide, after setting your scanning area to about 5 inches square.

Do not set the scanning area at (say) 9 x 12 inches and crop away the excess, as that leads to poor, fuzzy results.

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Re: Help needed on these Great Britain album pages please.

Post by skilo54 »

You have a nice Die1 Downey Head on your first page. It is the one that looks like my Avatar and IMHO is the nicest stamp in the lot. There is also a Sideface KGV ½d. with a triangular postmark, first stamp-second page that is interesting and collectible. Without getting in there and doing a little inspekting for watermark variations, Plateflaws and such, I would have to agree with Doug that your GB album pages contain some fairly common material.

Have a good one,

Skilo54

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Re: Help needed on these Great Britain album pages please.

Post by europhil »

doug2222usa wrote:Do not set the scanning area at (say) 9 x 12 inches and crop away the excess, as that leads to poor, fuzzy results.
Huh? DPI is DPI. Result will be the same if you re-size
before scanning or crop after scanning. The crop method
just takes longer and consumes more memory.

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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by patg »

Rockey,
Were you looking to continue the collection, or just wondering whats it's value was. Either way is fine, just that the answers would be different depending on what you wanted to do.
I liked the first one for the York cancel.
pat
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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by patg »

On a previous thought about German inflation stamps:

Here is another page from a typical "found" album. Across the top, an array of mint inflation stamps. You will find them in most every world stamp album you find. Most are at the catalog minimum value, a few cents more for never hinged.
Image

And below, the reason they will never be worth much more than that. Look at the staple on the left hand side at the 50 mark. It holds ten full sheets together as they came from the post office. So that's 10x10x10 = 1000 MNH stamps in this one picture. @25¢ x100 on the sheet, do you think I can get $25 for the sheet? $250 for the pack? How many do you think are out there like this, and in all the other values?
Went to EBay Germany, saw all kinds of inflation period stuff there. Saw one offer for this sheet. They wanted 10€ for it, (good luck).

Image

But that does not mean they are worthless to the collector. This one sheet has a few very well known plate flaws: one being shown in the scan below.
(This web site has many other good examples of what to look for)
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://w ... md%3Dimvns

Sprung in Rosett (Korbdeckel) from Michel. (at the 9 o'clock position)
Image

And it doesn't mean they don't belong in your collection. They do , along with any good examples of used ones ( just remember the used are hard to certify off cover, and should be viewed accordingly)
Image

I probably hinged these to the page 30 years ago, and they're as fresh as the day I put them down; not stuck down, not toned.(It's all in how you treat them). Now I keep the MNH in stock books, along with all the used, varieties and postmarks. Much easier to re-arrange and study.

All for now.
Best to all,
pat
:D "I don't have a lot - But I like what I got" :D

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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by patg »

Slightly off topic, but still some good advice.

Every now and then, leave the stamps and go for a walk & enjoy nature.
Don't worry, they'll be there when you get back.

These are a few of the places we go for a day trip, when the urge hits.

Yosemite Valley, Upper pines campgtound
Image

Yosemite Falls from valley floor
Image

Muir Woods, Marin County
Image

Big Trees State Park, In the Sierras north of Yosemite
Image

Image

See, California is not all paved over & end to end freeways :D
Best to all & more stamps coming,
pat
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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by patg »

Time for a short trip back to Aunt Jeannie's album:

One thing to think about is that usually you can't tell what a stamp's value is just by looking at it.

Sure, there are classics and high values that just sitting there look and feel expensive, and maybe somewhere deep inside (maybe sometimes not so deep) we feel a wee bit of avarice when looking at them.

But if the catalog ups & downs of something is your barometer of satisfaction, then you are an investor (not that there is anything wrong with that :D )

I'm a prospector: small "t" treasure hunter. I like the hunt, digging in the dirt and finding the small nuggets, putting them together and having the fun of doing it, and maybe in the end having something to show for it. Others are happy to just walk into the coin dealer and buy the gold coin.

Below is another result from Aunt Jeannie's album. There is really nothing to write home about, but I'll use it for an example for something else: "Without the right tools you can't even start digging."

A catalog: To help you find they're Austrian (not Australian :lol: ). A magnifying glass: To help you see the feathers on the 2s. One is cat [at] $5.25, the other is $65.00. One has 5 feathers a side, the other 7. Which is which?

The other a fairly poor example of the 1000k. Minimum cat at perf 12½, $250 at perf 11½. Sure be nice to have a perf gauge right about now.

And, if you had a specialized catalog for your country of choice, another whole world of possibilities will open up for you.

I'll save watermarks for another time. But if you're into Roo's or KGV, you know all about what a difference they can make.

Image

What's the value?

Would you pay $15 for those below?

Haven't sorted out the Russian Zone from the DDR, so that should hold some surprises.
The middle four are back number singles.

Image

How about for several hundred?
Image

How about four pounds off paper? Someone said ~300-400 stamps per pound off paper.
So about 22,000 stamps at cat minimum of 20¢ = $4400! I'm rich!
Image

But no, it was only worth $15 for the dealer to have me cart it off. His time is too valuable to sift through all of that pile and sort it out.

Ans so, as my free time is priceless (and you couldn't pay me enough to sort through that if it was for a wage), I have my bucket of mud to take home and over the next several days, find my nuggets and treasure I look for.

The clear date cancels, perfs, plate varieties (I was hoping to find a plate type I on the Germania), watermarks, colors (look at the three 20pf Germania); they're almost as bad as the KGV for variety.

What's the price on these?

Pennies or priceless it's up to you. If not these, then something in that bucket is your treasure and only you can say.
Image

I'm winding down finally.

This is suppose to be about "advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections", and I guess it still is.

The advise I have is:

If you want to be a collector with what you were given, be a good one & enjoy what it gives you. If not, find a dealer who will offer you what it is worth (hopefully some of this will help you manage your expectations), and give another collector the fun of discovering the nuggets that may be there.

As for myself, no one in my family is interested in what I have. But when I go, my wife knows who to bring it to for a fair price (she may be surprised), and it's my hope that it get thrown back out there to give other collectors the same enjoyment I had in finding them.

Past my bedtime.

Best to all,

pat
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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by patg »

"How about four pounds off paper? Someone said ~300-400 stamps per pound off paper."

So much for proof reading. Should have been "~300-400 stamps per ounce".
:D "I don't have a lot - But I like what I got" :D

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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by collectalot2 »

very informative and needed. thank you.

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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by Sewmebug »

Hey!

Just a thank you for all the valuable information on stamp collecting; have been reading a variety of posts on here and appreciate so many of you who give freely of your time/knowledge about stamps; it helps a new person who has inherited a stamp collection try to figure out the choices; keep and continue; sell and be done.

I am enjoying all the history and general information you all share.

Raye

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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by patg »

Another wandering post:
New collectors should spend some time roaming the internet looking at the vast array of philatelic possibilities. If you live near a club or philatelic museum, go visit. If not, get on line. There are literally thousands of sites to explore, and search engines are getting pretty good at digging them out.
Go to some of the major auction sites and look at some really stunning rarities. Here's one I like https://www.cherrystoneauctions.com/gallery.asp ( And no, I don't think Aunt Jeannie's album has any of them in it :lol: ).

To the thought at hand:
I know there are "X"- billions of stamps that have been produced and used throughout stamps history, billions lost through time and billions (maybe :D ) soaked off cover to be put in collections.
While we can't undo the past:
Image

I hope we will spend a bit more time with the stamps on covers that come our way. Even if you are not interested in collecting covers, take the time to see what you have before you make the final decision. For one thing, even ordinary stamps look nice on cover.

Image

How about if these ordinary stamps were off cover, what part of the story or historical view would we have lost.
Image
Or these:
Image
What could they have told us about their to and from journey.

O.K. then, you're not interested in history, how about turning pennies into dollars:
Scott 605 - 15¢ off cover. $15 on cover used as 3rd class mail.
Image

But you have a space in your album for this stamp you want to fill. I'll bet someone will be happy to trade you one like it for that cover (plus a few more).
Image

Not to beat a dead horse, but if you could take your choice, what do you think it would be.
Image

Our stamps are historical , every one was made with a story behind it,when we look at them we should try and find out what that was, however you find it.
Image


You say you only like "bug" stamps. That's o.k., there are probably as many stamps about and collectors of, who like them, and plenty of them are on this board.

Good! Enjoy them for all that they can teach and show you.
Image

Many times even a simple thing can have an amazing story when you pull that thread:
Image
Image
The message side talks about this years upcoming Kearsarge veterans meeting, this being the 42ed anniversary.

But, you may say, they're only stamps and postmarks and envelopes we're collecting, not real history. Maybe; but wait until the first time you go behind that door, and see the history and humanity that ties us to what we are holding:
You may have the stamp, they are fairly common; even the postmark "Dresden", a major German city with hundreds of years of history and culture.
Post mark: Dresden 1946 (Russian zone):
Image
Dresden 1946
Image
Google it, get a book, find out for yourself what the world was doing at that time. (I don't think schools teach it anymore :( )

Or this one. I don't know how it makes you feel, But every time I read it , it stops me cold, and I contemplate all the sacrifices people and our families made before us.
Image

All for now, but I do not wish to leave on a somber note, so I give you this:
One very dull cover.
Image
Except for this:
Image

I don't even want to know what they would do if he owed them $10 :lol:

None of what I've shown is expensive or rare. And even if I sell all the stamps I have, I could not buy even one of Cherrystones rarities. But, they are mine, I like them & I do believe I think I'll keep them. :D

To steal two motto's for collectors:
The first on how to treat our stamps:Hippocratic oath (paraphrased) - "First, do no harm".
The second on how to enjoy our stamps:Nike's "Just do it".

My best to all here,
patg
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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by wjamesd »

Good grief! What a gedoente! But very useful and timely. I think that Pat has the right answer. Enjoy collecting and leave the lot someone who will also enjoy collecting. Simple.
I have consulted with my daughter and we have gone through my collection; and she is willing to take over the lot: stamps, albums, boxes, catalogues, books, electronic storage and uncle tom cobley and all.
That's it.
Now I can relax and enjoy my stamps and add to them periodically, knowing that that they will all be quite safe in due course.
Here in South Africa, all that I had to do was to ensure that the entire lot is left to her in my will.
Wjamesd

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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by patg »

wjamesd:
Thank you (At least I think so! :?)
Afrikaans - gedoente. English - ado; affair; contraption.
Maybe the local usage means something else. :lol:

I'm glad you have someone who is interested in carrying on what you have started.

Best to you & daughter,
pat
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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by wjamesd »

Very good, Pat!!
I use
gedoente
for anthing that seems to me to be a bit over-the-top!!
Fuss and hubbub are also acceptable translations.
wjamesd
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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by ivqii »

Waneer is jou gedoente gedaan? :wink:
Nobody will ever win the Battle of the Sexes. There's just too much fraternizing with the enemy

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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by ivqii »

Rough translation

"When is your fuss finished?"

The pun only works in Afrikaans
Nobody will ever win the Battle of the Sexes. There's just too much fraternizing with the enemy

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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by wjamesd »

Bliksem!!
How on earth did we get from inherited stamp collections to pedantic semantics??
:o :o :shock:
Enough already
wjamesd

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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by mcgooley »

wjamesd wrote:Very good, Pat!!
I use
gedoente
for anything that seems to me to be a bit over-the-top!!
Fuss and hubbub are also acceptable translations.
wjamesd
:) :)
It's a bit sad, for me, that this thread should even exist. But, like with so many things, where there's a will there's a lawsuit :roll: and stamp collections seem to be one of the main causes of a lot of strife, for a lot of different reasons.

If you have read through this topic from the very beginning, and viewed the thread which gave birth to this one, you may understand why I felt the original suggestion was worth following through. I very strongly believe that Pat's visual display and discussion is a valuable lesson, just as the comments by many of the other members here also can be of value to people who have unearthed a collection.....and think they've discovered a goldmine.

To sane, sensible, 'normal', stamp-collectors (although I doubt such an animal exists :lol: ) everything here on this thread will be passe. Realistically, it wasn't aimed at them - this scenario comes up every day, in every country, on every continent; in stamp clubs, at Sunday markets, and in dealer's shop-fronts, and auction houses.

As regards the pedantic semantics.....umm, we are talking about stamp collectors (aren't we :wink: ), and philatelists are even worse :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by waroff49 »

Macca, you're not saying this thread got off topic are you?

If so, then you're correct.
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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by mgjpostalhistory »

I evaluate stamp and postal history collections and have had to disappoint some families that thought "just because it's old, it must be valuable."

However, even in all the chaff, there occasionally is wheat to be found. I am currently reviewing a collection consisting of nine large tubs of stamps...literally all thrown together. Pounds and pounds of common material.

However, to date I have rescued very nice selection of early Canada and Nova Scotia, some high catalog Great Britain and colonies, and most recently, in a large box of common commemoratives, a mint $2.60 U.S. zeppelin and used U.S. #1 (2 copies) and U.S. #2.

Finds like these are the reason I never refuse to take a look at a collection.

mgjpostalhistory

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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by CLOUD9 »

Image

I have liked reading these posts as I have inherited two of the collections above. The first my Great Grandfather's / Grandfather's 1840's - 1930's, the second my mother's 1930's - 1950's and the third is my own childhood collection 1950's-1970's.
In my retirement I have decided to add to them, study them, and although I am aware the majority will have no real value, I am really enjoying identifying them from a collection of Stanley Gibbons catalogues that I purchased. I also sell my "swaps" on ebay for fun. (Full refunds if not completely satisfied!!).
Please keep the posts coming for the "novice" collectors like myself.

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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by ivqii »

CLOUD9 wrote:Image

I have liked reading these posts as I have inherited two of the collections above. The first my Great Grandfather's / Grandfather's 1840's - 1930's, the second my mother's 1930's - 1950's and the third is my own childhood collection 1950's-1970's.
In my retirement I have decided to add to them, study them, and although I am aware the majority will have no real value, I am really enjoying identifying them from a collection of Stanley Gibbons catalogues that I purchased. I also sell my "swaps" on ebay for fun. (Full refunds if not completely satisfied!!).
Please keep the posts coming for the "novice" collectors like myself.

WELL DONE!! - People like you are the REAL winners when it comes to inherited collections :D
Nobody will ever win the Battle of the Sexes. There's just too much fraternizing with the enemy

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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by patg »

CLOUD9: Well done. Glad to see you kept them. Maybe when you get a chance you can share some nice pages.

Well, since no one else seems to have any advice to share recently, I guess I'll throw in my 2¢ (again).
And, it's nice to see people are still taking a look here (nice to be a sticky)
Also, it was only a very short detour and I appreciated wjamesd's reply to my question :)

I'll admit my advice has really tilted more toward people who have a desire to keep what they were given, and want to grow in the hobby. I'm no specialist or expert by any means, and seem to be easily distracted by any new post or link that looks interesting. But, on the other hand I'm interested in all the details of what I'm looking for at that time. I especially like tracking down all the history and details of APO & ships covers to as to where they may have been when the cover was sent. It is truly amazing the information that can be had on the internet.

I said earlier there are no wrong things to collect. But, there are wrong (not good) ways to collect or take care of what you have.

The following may have been done by : As mcgooley put it "sane, sensible, 'normal', stamp-collectors to who everything here on this thread will be passe". And I think who either, didn't know, didn't care, or didn't collect what was there.

I think if it was done by a "collector / philatelist" they should have their stamp tongs taken away. :D

As has been said many times before, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. But, if it was done by someone who didn't know any better (like me in an earlier story), maybe this will (if they read this) prevent it in the future.

This one pains me to see. Why would someone who had even a small knowledge of collecting, roughly rip off the corners of over 50 very nice airletters, rendering them useless :twisted:
Even though, when I find these, I trim them neatly for the cancel and add to a stock page. I hate to waste.

Image
Image

In this case at least there is some history as to cutting to shape, as people who collect the early embossed issues of England and others know. You will find many of these in early collections. I also used to take corners off of envelopes when I first started out. Now, only if their is no other reason to keep it intact because of damage or poor cancel.
Image
I don't know what they were thinking with the ½ stamp right above, but it came off of an album page :shock:

If you have to trim, try and make it as neat as you can.
Image

The same goes for postal cards as with Airletter sheets.There is no catalog or esthetic value to clipping off the corner, and should be collected intact.
I've asked the question before, but never really got an answer as to why it's acceptable (collector world wise) to have catalog listing for stamped envelope corners, but not postal cards or airletter sheets.

Image

All for now.
My best to all who enjoy this hobby. I know for me, coming home and working on one thing or another on my collections is very relaxing.
Even coming here is (mostly) enjoyable, but usually always informative.
pat
:D "I don't have a lot - But I like what I got" :D

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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by patg »

Now a picture (and history) lesson of what could have been lost in that pile of torn off letter sheets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidong_Island

Image
Image

Just saying, take some time before you act. It could be about more than just the stamp on the corner.

Best to all,
pat
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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by patg »

Hello to all (new and old):
Just had a thought for new members coming to this post (or any new thread) for the first time. It would be to your benefit to go to the start of this discussion, or it may not make sense in it's evolution.
As you will find, some of these have been ongoing for years (not this one), and your question may have been answered, or you will think of new ones as you read the evolving posts.

Anyway, best to you & enjoy,
patg
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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by mcgooley »

Something to ponder:

Recently, I received a phone call from a gentleman in the region who asked me to come and assess an old box of stamps which he had discovered when he was cleaning out his father's effects. He seemed to think that perhaps one of the stamps in the box might be worth something because there was a newspaper cutting in an envelope with the stamp, which indicated to him that the stamp was worth $$$$$$$

With sinking heart, another club member and myself fronted the gentleman's house. We were shown inside and went into the dining room where he'd laid the contents of the box out on the table.

The 'box' is an old-style trunk. He was eager to show us the envelope, and was very downcast when it was pointed out that the stamp he has, although similar, isn't the same as the one in the newspaper. No $40,000 stamp here. And the smell of "must" was strong.....that box hadn't been opened for a very, very, long time.

BUT......

our friend has over 200 years of family history in the contents of the trunk. The envelope mentioned, along with the newspaper cutting and the stamp, has an 1838 English cancel on it, addressed to a family member.

There are other, earlier, envelopes - some with their contents - as well as invoices, receipts, and other legal papers - all bearing revenues from the 1880s onwards, up to quite high values.

There is nothing later than 1940 in the contents. Most of the stamps are housed in cigarette/tobacco/cigar tins; there are about a dozen home-made albums (the stamps are GLUED DOWN :cry: :cry: :cry: ) and one c.1900 album with about 6 pages filled.

The strength in this hoard is in the revenues. These items are generally not found in a stamp catalogue; they are a specialist area. There are threads on this board which show the value of 2-pound 'roos "on piece"....revenues "on piece" are much, much, harder to find.

At the end of the day, we advised our friend to leave everything out of the box and let it air. He is keen to learn how to best present it to an auction house (our suggestion) for disposal, as he doesn't set any store by family history - apart from a couple of books he wishes to keep.

After three hours, we (I hope!!!) gave him clear and concise instructions on what to leave alone, and what he could safely start cleaning up. I will be keeping in touch with him and assisting where I can, regards rehousing and presentation.

As my fellow-member informed our friend; "stamps aren't necessarily stamps".
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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by patg »

Yea! Someone finally added something! :D I was running a contest (in my head :lol: ) to see how long it could go, before someone (else) added something.
June 2 - Sept 10

mcgooley: Thanks for the story. Your friend is absolutely correct, it's (should) never be just about "the stamps".

Now that you've broken my self-imposed exile, I have a few more thoughts to throw out. But first I have to be on travel for the next week to L.A. (without stamps :( )

My best to all,
patg
:D "I don't have a lot - But I like what I got" :D

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fixa4377
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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by fixa4377 »

very interesting reading for a newbie this thread was!!

i have an "aunt Jeannie" collection but have had it for many years, and always keep a keen eye out and interest, i am curious of values ect but am more happy that the collection reflects my Pa's history as he was a postal worker, i have absolutely no idea about the stamps in my collection, some are unused in blocks, most are used though, i will get around to posting the collection in pics after i have sifted through the search function here a bit more as i aknowledge annoying habits of newbies and their "million dollar finds" haha, i am pretty confident my collection is worth probably less than the album they are found within, but it is nice to share with other collectors and interested people, and keep diving into the history the collection has from a family side of things, thanks guys and please forgive me for future ignorance relating to stamps :oops:

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robgod
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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by robgod »

...and another newbie joins the forum :-) (i.e. me!)

Like "fixa..." above, I've also got an inherited collection and am under no illusion that it was anything other than just a hobby. Even though there are some beautiful examples from around the world, both used and unused, wonderfully laid out in albums and books (aswell as piles curling in shoeboxes!), I have read enough around this board, to appreciate the complexity of philately. (If I've used the word correctly!).
In nearly all examples, something that decreases value, can also increase its value. How crazy is that?? You've just GOT to have respect for enthusiasts...it makes all other hobbies seem, well, "easy".

So many posts here seem to be re-assuring reality checks to eternal optimists - which is probably just aswell!

Since I have obtained my dads collection - and knowing that I would never give it the appreciation it deserves - I am seeking advise on how to sell stamps when their value is not known. Its not feasible to get every stamp valued and I don't have the skill to attempt valuation myself so I will assume they are all worth little...but in most cases, worth something none the less.

Should I sell the lot to a collector? Should I photograph each one and list on eBay with a 1p starting bid? Or sell as a packs of "stamp selection"? are there any tips on categorisation when selling (for example, do / do not mix countries? group by date/year? Used/unused?)

(Apologies if these questions have been answered....I confess i haven't read EVERY post!)

Of course, I could actually start taking an interest and ADDING to the old mans collection (he'd be so proud) :-) but I just dont think i'd do it justice.

thanks
Rob

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mcgooley
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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by mcgooley »

To both 'fixa' and Rob, firstly, welcome to the weird, wacky, and wonderful world of stamp collectors.

I don't know if you're a member of other chat rooms, but here there are a few rules which are adhered to, because this board attracts a large number of people for whom English is not their first language. Checking your posts prior to hitting the "submit" button is always worthwhile.

Regarding your questions, something I've said before and continue to say is...a hobby should be fun - first and foremost. Your Dad, or Aunt Jean, or Joe Bloggs from Upper Kambuckta West, collected (acquired, accumulated, whatever,) items that gave them a sense of satisfaction. I have seen some wonderful collections of material that "serious" philatelists would scorn because they are made up of what is, generously, known as 'wallpaper'. Monetary value? Zilch. Satisfaction? Priceless.

Rob; to dispose of your father's collection; if you have access to a scanner, scan a few pages that appeal to you (if you're unsure, try some on the Want to add a photo/image? Practice posting a picture HERE! thread first) in your own topic on the NO question is too basic or silly - you ask - we WILL help you with it! or the You ask the questions - SOMEONE will have the answers! forums.

Just a heads-up.

If you have the opportunity, time, and patience, to go to your local library and flip through the stamp catalogues; remember the prices quoted are the "DEALER" prices - mostly including handling costs - and, mostly, do not reflect the selling prices in the real world.

If you choose to go down the eBay path - without having seen your Dad's material - there are a number of routes.

1. Take a lot of photos of the entire collection - books, boxes, envelopes, the works - and show images of the various pages, contents, and any post office packs (POP), or first day covers (FDC) from the collection.

2. Break it down into countries, or, if his collection is mainly made up of "thematics" - i.e. if you see a lot of, say, motorbikes; butterflies; horses; cars; flowers; trains; religion; certain types of animals; etc. - and take photos of the main groupings, and use that description in your title.

Beware; if there is a large quantity of very common material like, say, machins; you may not be able to give them away (I had nearly a 1kg quantity of machins that I couldn't give away!)

In this section, if there is a quantity of items with postmarks, or stamps with funny-looking holes in them, or seemingly unrelated items in the one envelope; then these will need careful checking. The same is true for items which ARE NOT stamps - railway; telegraph; mail strike; advertising items - also known as 'Cinderellas'.

3. In general, the 'Classic' period - i.e. up to 1870 - has the possibility of having value. There are other time-frames for some countries, but as a general rule-of-thumb, it is the very early issues of countries which hold the most value. This will require some work on your behalf to investigate, but it could prove worthwhile.

My (very general) advice would be to use the Search function; and check for yourself on any items that appeal to you. This board has an enormous vault of knowledge available - all you have to do is look for it.

The other piece of advice I would offer is;

If there are any pieces of family history - letters, envelopes (covers), or images, newspaper articles, or other documents - seriously; think three times about getting rid of it. Just like the truism that it's difficult to re-attach stamps to a cover; it can be almost impossible to regain an item once it has passed from your possession.
FORESTS OLD, PASTURES NEW
"Truth is stranger than Fiction, but that is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." MARK TWAIN

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robgod
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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by robgod »

Good advice, thanks. There are some Machins (after I looked up on Wikipedia what that meant!) but mostly not. Naively, I thought they would still be worth face value if nothing else!

There doesnt seem to be a theme....not even specific countries! But I learnt this week that one of my relatives used to work for Stanley Gibbons so that helped feed the collection.

And yes, there are a few complete envelopes, addressed to my childhood home, so yes, these are more nostalgic value for me.

I will post some images from some of the albums in the next few days.

Rob

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Brummie
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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by Brummie »

mcgooley, that is the best all round general advice I've seen in one post, you are brilliant! 8)

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robgod
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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by robgod »

mcgooley wrote: I don't know if you're a member of other chat rooms, but here there are a few rules which are adhered to, because this board attracts a large number of people for whom English is not their first language. Checking your posts prior to hitting the "submit" button is always worthwhile.
I am English, have always been English, and do not speak any other language. Any errors; spelling, grammatical, syntactical or otherwise, are entirely down to my computer :wink:

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adrianlck
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Re: Some advice regarding inherited Stamp Collections

Post by adrianlck »

Today i received one of the "Aunt Jeannie" stockbooks that this thread has been talking about.
I bought it for around USD 400. Although some of you may find that price unacceptable, for me, i think i will have a lot of enjoyment from this lot. Doesnt matter if they are little off centred, pulled perf or not cos i do not think i intend to auction any of this anyway. There were > 10000 stamps stuffed in this album and as i opened it, stamps were literally dropping out.

Please allow me to share my joy regarding old stockbooks.

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Adrian

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