Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

josto wrote:
25 Aug 2020 03:14
BR20:
Image
Image
Unclear. Please send a clearer picture at 1200 dpi.

Thanks,

Philip

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

josto wrote:
25 Aug 2020 03:15
BR46:
Image
Image
Yes,

A nice example of the break in shading.

Philip

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

josto wrote:
25 Aug 2020 03:15
BR47:
Image
Image
Yes,

A lovely example of the denting.

Philip

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

josto wrote:
25 Aug 2020 03:16
DR60:
Image
Image
Not totally convinced.

Given there is no image in the WIKI, in it goes (with caveat) - https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=6782461#p6782461

Philip

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

josto wrote:
25 Aug 2020 03:17
EL16:
Image
Image
Yes,

In its second state.

Philip

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

Micky wrote:
22 Aug 2020 22:50
Hi again, this 2½ Roo looks to have a bite out of the back of the neck, thanks to the postmark for making it difficult.

Image
Image
Image


Micky
Micky,

No mention of such a flaw in the ACSC, in Pope's guide or in Legge's The Kangaroo Issues of Australian Stamps

Philip

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

PhilipAdams wrote:
25 Aug 2020 07:15
No mention of such a flaw in the ACSC, in Pope's guide or in Legge's The Kangaroo Issues of Australian Stamps
Philip
Philip,

You neglected to mention consulting the "crystal ball"!
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

f19ae062b4c0e068a064193ce8315684-800.jpg

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Micky,

I think your Roo was injured by the 'crown' watermark. See "StampCompare" output.

2020-08-24_16-04-56.jpg
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

PhilipAdams wrote:
25 Aug 2020 08:59
Image
Swift!

Thanks. I didn't require use of it. Save it for another revelation.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by rsellens »

PhilipAdams wrote:
25 Aug 2020 06:48
josto wrote:
25 Aug 2020 03:08
Hi!

Here are some possible examples for the WIKI, but they need to be confirmed.

BL48 second state:
Image
Joachim,

Unclear from the picture whether it is second or third state. Please re-send at 1200 dpi and with a close up of the area to the right of Cape York.

Thanks,

Philip
Josto's is 3rd state.

This is my BL48 3rd state.
BL48.jpg
BL48a.jpg

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

Ross,

You are almost certainly right, but a clearer image from josto would assist.

Note that the WIKI has three images of the stamp (after some editing): Cape-York flaw not present (State 1), initial flaw (State 2), and flaw in its full glory (State 3).

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=87758&p=6039888#p6039888

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by david3461 »

Thanks Philip

Your thoughts, please, on this one being DL57 ?? The nick seems to be in the right place, but how small a nick is a "small nick".....

Cheers

DL57.jpg
DL57a.jpg

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Micky »

Kainnikanada wrote:
25 Aug 2020 09:09
Micky,

I think your Roo was injured by the 'crown' watermark. See "StampCompare" output.

Image
Thanks Rod and Philip, I was hoping for a little something different, the watermark deceived me again. :)

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Micky »

Here is another one and its a long way from the watermark, I have it on hold as again I don't know if it's anything special. I noticed the Kangaroo has a bit more inking also, so maybe just over ink and a blob E. :roll:

The 2nd stamp shows a decent blob near the last E, again the postmark is interrupting the view.
6d Roo blob near E
6d Roo blob near E
def e1.png

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Micky wrote:
25 Aug 2020 20:14
Thanks Rod and Philip, I was hoping for a little something different, the watermark deceived me again.
Micky,

I failed to complete my assessment of your apparent flawed 2½d. After I prepared the overlay I should have added this observation.

Notwithstanding the convergence of the watermark and the flaw it is interesting to note that the edge of the incision into the roo's neck is quite sharp which seems to contradict the effect that the watermark would possibly have on the ink deposition. Having said this had it been constant I do believe we'd have seen a listing in Pope at best. Unfortunately, the postmark is too heavy to determine anything. Since the watermark underlies the area in question we should go with it as being the culprit or mechanism.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Micky,

If you are thinking that your left stamp has the defective second 'E' it cannot be since I can see the horizontal watermark line. Your pair is from the base of the pane. The defective 'E' is from position 34 (if I recall correctly from its position in my discovery strip) that's from the centre of the pane of 60.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Lesley »

Hope someone can help with plating this ½d pair. Left marginal line with water mark low.

First stamp has a void area of Queensland coast lines 20,21 and 22 counting down from cape York .
½d flaw coast Queensland
½d flaw coast Queensland
scan248B.jpg

Thanks, :)
Les

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

david3461 wrote:
25 Aug 2020 17:48
Thanks Philip

Your thoughts, please, on this one being DL57 ?? The nick seems to be in the right place, but how small a nick is a "small nick".....

Cheers


Image


Image
David,

"Small" in this context can be very very, very, small..

Sadly, your stamp fails the first test, namely that plate D clichés do not show breaks in the first shading lines above and below N of ONE. Your Die II stamp clearly has the lower break - the postmark hides the top break. Hence it is not from plate D.

Philip

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

Lesley wrote:
26 Aug 2020 04:11
Hope someone can help with plating this ½d pair. Left marginal line with water mark low.

First stamp has a void area of Queensland coast lines 20,21 and 22 counting down from cape York .

ImageImage


Thanks, :)
Les
Les,

I haven't seen a posting on Kangaroos from you for some time. Good to see your continuing interest.

Certainly not in Pope or ACSC. I thought I had something similar, but after looking carefully can't find anything.

Philip

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Lesley »

Thanks for looking Philip, since posting have had a look at the updated wiki!

2L54 ,flaw off Townsville looked like a winner but for the left marginal line . ;)


Thanks,

Les

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

Yes,

2L54 is not in the Pope guide, or the ACSC.

It is discussed here https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=4640343#p4640343

Les, your image is not good, but to the extent that I can see your smudge is further away from the coast than is the 2L54 smudge.

Philip

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Micky »

Kainnikanada wrote:
26 Aug 2020 02:45
Micky wrote:
25 Aug 2020 20:14
Thanks Rod and Philip, I was hoping for a little something different, the watermark deceived me again.
Micky,

I failed to complete my assessment of your apparent flawed 2½d. After I prepared the overlay I should have added this observation.

Notwithstanding the convergence of the watermark and the flaw it is interesting to note that the edge of the incision into the roo's neck is quite sharp which seems to contradict the effect that the watermark would possibly have on the ink deposition. Having said this had it been constant I do believe we'd have seen a listing in Pope at best. Unfortunately, the postmark is too heavy to determine anything. Since the watermark underlies the area in question we should go with it as being the culprit or mechanism.
It is a shame the old postmark makes a difference, still it's something I greedily purchased just in case. I appreciate your time and knowledge Rod.

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Micky »

Kainnikanada wrote:
26 Aug 2020 02:52
Micky,

If you are thinking that your left stamp has the defective second 'E' it cannot be since I can see the horizontal watermark line. Your pair is from the base of the pane. The defective 'E' is from position 34 (if I recall correctly from its position in my discovery strip) that's from the centre of the pane of 60.
Hi Rod, sorry I didn't explain :oops: I thought it might have been a retouch or something to do with the defective E.

I have these two coming from the same seller so I thought I better ask as a precaution in my favour. Shown on forum 6d Substituted cliche. https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=25115&p=6750347#p6750347

Substituted cliche, will scan it when arrives for confirmation.
Image

Image

Defective E.
Image

Michael

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by david3461 »

Thanks again Philip - not having much luck here :(

This one is written up as DR28. but there is no reference in the wiki for such a position, so I am not sure if it even exists. Is it relative to another position ?? !! Hopefully you can throw some light on the subject.......

Many thanks for your patience
David


DR28.jpg

DR28a.jpg

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

David,

Can't be from plate D because of the breaks in the first shading lines above and below N of ONE.

====================
Beware! - thus follows a lesson.

(These observations are due to Adams, Bell and Pope and are repeated elsewhere by other authors).

There are three Die II plates - D, E and F. Die II exists in two sub states on these plates. The second sub state has breaks in the first shading lines above and below N of ONE. The first sub state does not have these breaks.

Plate D clichés are of the first sub state (no breaks). Plates E and F are of the second sub state (with breaks).

Bellow are two stamps. The first is from plate D, the second is from plate F. Plate D has no breaks. Plate F has breaks.

Plate D
Plate D(A).jpg

------------------------
Plate F
Plate F(A).jpg

=====================
Plate D
Plate D(B).jpg

------------------------
Plate F
Plate F(B) (2).jpg

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by david3461 »

Hi Philip

Brilliant - beautifully explained:

It is, therefore, with great confidence, that I attach scans for DR55....


DR55.jpg

DR55a.jpg

Cheers

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

"Brilliant - beautifully explained" AND totally derivative!

Very nice example of the flaw David, thank you.

Thus, https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=6782457#p6782457

Philip

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

The "missing" 1d WIKI entries for the right pane of plate B have now been added.

Philip

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by david3461 »

Thanks Philip - no stopping me now.

I do believe this one to be DR56......

DR56.jpg

DR56a.jpg


DR56b.jpg

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

David

A lovely example. Hence, https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=6782458#p6782458 .

Philip

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts ple

Post by josto »

langtounlad wrote:
08 Jul 2019 10:55
rehautala wrote:Need some expert advice on this one.

SG #133 ACSC #29 9d Roo CofA

To me, it looks like a possible DieII substituted cliche. However, it does not match any of the ones listed in my ACSC (2013 Ed.) Have any new ones been discovered?
Is it, in fact, just an over-inked DieIIB?

Is it possible to plate this stamp as to position? The cancel is somewhat heavy, unfortunately, however, it is dated.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Thanks.
rehautala

This is a Die 2B. If you look closely at the area in the top frame where the Die 2B break should be you will note a small swelling of the frame. In the cliches where this swelling is present the break is usually inked over. The swelling in your stamp is more subtle than most.
In the top right corner have a good look at your enlargement of this area and you will see a break in the right inner frame - very fine but definitely there. This is a strong Die 2B marker.
The Die 2A break in the left inner frame is there but it is partially obscured by the date stamp ink.

Unfortunately the cancel covers areas I would like to see especially the I of nine has two clear markers for Die 2B in the 9d issue. Could not see any markers to plate your copy.

There have been no new discoveries of the 9d substituted cliches since the date of your catalogue. One was announced in the 2017 Kangaroos issue but as it was on the wrong plate and the cliche nominated (3L18) was an already well known Die 2B listed flaw you can imagine the reaction of the Kangaroo community.

Regards
Frank
Hello,

I found this small ebay lot for 10AU$. Normally a quite high price for this lot, but I spotted this little beauty in the lot. Would be great if one of the spezialists could confirm my identification!? It is a 9d violet CTO kangaroo with wmk CofA. Am I right, that this is ACSC 29(4)e "Die II Substitution" 4L3 (break in shading west of tip of Cape York, breaks in inner frame under "N" and "E" of "NINE" and under second "E" of "PENCE"!? If I`m right, then 10AU$ should be a small bargain, as the stamps has a cat. value of 150AU$ (maybe plus a small premium for being a CTO example?)!

Greetings

josto
Attachments
s-l1600.jpg
Australia 9d kangaroo flaw991.jpg

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Pampstamp »

Hi Josto

I have an interest in the 9d Substitute cliche's and in my opinion it certainly is!!

ACSC 29(4)e "Die II Substitution" 4L3 :D

The only variation to ACSC is the break in the inner frame in the second N of nine!!

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by dj_claz »

Hi

Just wondering if this is a known flaw on this 9d 1st watermark? Apologies I did try searching this topic to see if already mentioned.

Broken N to inner frame.
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IMG_1163.JPG

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by The Pom »

That one seems to crop up quite often on the 9d, and isn't listed in the ACSC. I assume it's just a bit of plate wear.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by phoff »

The flawed N is noted in Banwell & Parsons as UCV-C2:
"NINE: on the first N the side and part of the upper outline of the serif at the top of the diagonal are missing; variable. Four copies seen, all 1st watermark.We are not convinced that this flaw is constant and think that more than one psoition may be involved. One stamp is from a left column and another is not from row 10."

I have two copies myself, from 1st wmk; one is from plate 2, position 1, and the other an unknown position.

dj__claz, it would be interesting to see a scan of the back, to see what watermark and any lines present.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by dj_claz »

Thanks The Pom and phoff.

I’ll certainly take an image of the reverse tomorrow and post.

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by josto »

Pampstamp wrote:
16 Aug 2020 23:54
Here are two that I would love for someone to have a copy off!! Both 1st watermark.

Check out the break in the coast!! :lol: :lol:
It is similar to 13(2)ha which is in 3rd watermark!

This is a 1st watermark and the break in coast far extends south!

Image

Image


Image

Image
Hi!

I just found this attached 1st wmk 3d kangaroo, which álso looks more like the 13(2)ha picture in ACSC!? I hope this is of some help and maybe this also confirms 13(2)ha on 1st wmk!?

Greetings
Attachments
Australia 3d kangaroo flaw.jpg
Australia 3d kangaroo flaw_cr.jpg

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Pampstamp »

josto wrote:
05 Sep 2020 21:30


Hi!

I just found this attached 1st wmk 3d kangaroo, which álso looks more like the 13(2)ha picture in ACSC!? I hope this is of some help and maybe this also confirms 13(2)ha on 1st wmk!?

Greetings
Image
Image
Hi Josto

Thanks for posting your 3d Roo . It confirms what I suspected that there is a State 111 in this flaw!!
In First Watermark!! :D

It could be listed in ACSC as:

12(2)hb Deformed coast in Bight-State 111

This follows the 12(2)ha State 11 -1st watermark posted above!! (only currently listed as 3rd watermark 13(2)ha)

I will post your find to the Suggested ACSC changes thread and hopefully it may be considered!!!

Cheers

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by josto »

Hi!

I found this little gem in an old collection. It is a 3rd wmk 2/- maroon kangaroo. The stamp shows a doubling of the upper frame and of the left frame,the word AUSTRALIA, Western Australia cost, but ,most striking is the doubling of the numeral 2, which shows a doubling shifted to upper left. Has anyone seen such avariety on this issue before!?

Greetings

josto
Attachments
Australia 2shillings flaw.jpg
Australia 2shillings flaw_cr.jpg
Australia 2shillings flaw_cr1.jpg
Australia 2shillings flaw_cr44.jpg

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Pampstamp »

josto wrote:
05 Sep 2020 21:54
Hi!

I found this little gem in an old collection. It is a 3rd wmk 2/- maroon kangaroo. The stamp shows a doubling of the upper frame and of the left frame,the word AUSTRALIA, Western Australia cost, but ,most striking is the doubling of the numeral 2, which shows a doubling shifted to upper left. Has anyone seen such avariety on this issue before!?

Greetings

josto
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Interesting example Josto!!

Can you post the back? Any frame watermark at back ?

The ACSC states only OS examples known!!

Your copy isn't similar to the confirmed ones I have seen. Could be a variation :D
The Pom wrote:
21 May 2020 05:57
I was one of the underbidders as well. :cry:

It's a known & listed variety, CV $4000 per stamp. All known examples are perf OS.

This is the picture from the listing. The seller had no idea they were selling a rarity, so must have been quite surprised by the result.

Image

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by josto »

Hi!

here is a scan of the back. I played with light and contrast to show the watermark better. I can`t see any marginal watermark line.

Greetings
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KGV 4d lemons016.jpg

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Pampstamp »

josto wrote:
06 Sep 2020 00:03
Hi!

here is a scan of the back. I played with light and contrast to show the watermark better. I can`t see any marginal watermark line.

Josto

I ran the stamp through retroreveal!!

Something is definately going on!! :D
josto2a.jpg

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by josto »

Hi!

Thank you for showing the retroreveal picture! Maybe it would be better for retroreveal to have the natural scan instead of the scan I changed in contrast and brightness to make the watermark better visible!? Here is the natural scan!

Greetings
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KGV 4d lemons017.jpg

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by josto »

Hi!

Another interesting roo I found in the small old collection I purchased lately. It is a third wmk kangaroo die IIb with interesting fuzzy flaw under the value circle. I had a look at Barnwell Parsons and found it as being pos. 4L54, with this interesting information:

(a) Shading below AUSTRALIA: the sixth line is thinned under "I" of AUSTRALIA, increasing the space between it and the seventh
(b) Shading south-east of circle: extensive white area, with maximum dimensions up to 1.5(to2)mm, between circle and "P" of PENCE and affecting also the figure 9, outlines very diffuse and variable. Probably not a plate flaw in the usual sense, but three copies seen, all 3rd wmk . Perhaps caused by foreign matter on the plate and therefore transient. Compare UCV C4 and the "LARGE FUZZY FLAWS" described by Davidson and Dix (1973) on page 2 of their book on the George V Four Pence stamps.

It is not listed in ACSC, maybe as they assume it as being transient, but as at least three copies are known, I would expect it as being some kind of constant flaw. Nevertheless, although my example is faulty with this missing and some short perfs, I think it is an interesting not often seen item.

Has anyone seen more examples of this flaw!?

Greetings

josto
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kangaroo 9d 020_cr.jpg
kangaroo 9d 020_cr_cr.jpg

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by josto »

Hello,

has anyone seen this defective right frame on a 1st wmk 3d olive kangaroo? I wonder if it might be constant!?

Best wishes

josto
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KGV 4d lemons019_crx.jpg
KGV 4d lemons019_crx_cr.jpg

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Pampstamp »

josto wrote:
06 Sep 2020 01:57
Hi!

Thank you for showing the retroreveal picture! Maybe it would be better for retroreveal to have the natural scan instead of the scan I changed in contrast and brightness to make the watermark better visible!? Here is the natural scan!

Greetings
Image
Hi Josto

shows very much the same in natural scan!!
josto 3l.jpg

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by dj_claz »

phoff wrote:
04 Sep 2020 05:16
The flawed N is noted in Banwell & Parsons as UCV-C2:
"NINE: on the first N the side and part of the upper outline of the serif at the top of the diagonal are missing; variable. Four copies seen, all 1st watermark.We are not convinced that this flaw is constant and think that more than one psoition may be involved. One stamp is from a left column and another is not from row 10."

I have two copies myself, from 1st wmk; one is from plate 2, position 1, and the other an unknown position.

dj__claz, it would be interesting to see a scan of the back, to see what watermark and any lines present.
Sorry for the delay, here is an image of the reverse. Watermark to the left of the stamp as seen.
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IMG_1178.JPG

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

10/- R60

Can someone confirm the following additional flaws on the 3rd watermarked 10/- roo? These are not described by Chapman thus are not recorded/described in Phoenix's flaw guide.

Are they EFOs? ...or just overlooked by Chapman?

117.5.5.30.00.092-57.R60OAF 2400.jpg

117.5.5.30.00.092-58.R60OAF 2400.jpg



117.5.5.30.00.092-60.R60OAF 2400.jpg
Looking for NSW cut-down relief date stamps, as seen in my avatar, to add to my collection.

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by phoff »

dj__claz, it would be interesting to see a scan of the back, to see what watermark and any lines present.
[/quote]

Sorry for the delay, here is an image of the reverse. Watermark to the left of the stamp as seen.
Image
[/quote]

dj__claz, thanks for the post.

Well, no lines, so not left column or 10th row = several cliches with same flaw, as B&P surmised. It would take a study of NWPI sheets (if any still exist in 9d 1st wmk) to nail these down. Interesting flaw, never the less.
Pat H

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