France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

in the 1850s, a first stamps has been issued, same design and unperf also. But color a little different and crisper printing.

In 1870s the stamps has been reissued perfed, and unperfed for colonies. Same stamps for france & colonies, only difference is perforation.

The Guadeloupe cancel is a pretty common one ;)
My blog with my French General Colonie Collection : http://phila-colgen.blogspot.fr/

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by StampLearner »

Thank you for the detailed explanation!

Best wishes !

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

If you have any other question do not hesitate ! ;)
My blog with my French General Colonie Collection : http://phila-colgen.blogspot.fr/

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Luigi »

French Post Offices in Zanzibar
Fr Zanzibar.jpg
Lockdown boredom had me sorting my French Sage types and I found these two un-overprinted stamps used in Zanzibar (25c & 75c) that I had put by some years ago.

I currently have a Gibbons catalogue which only lists the overprinted Sage stamps. Does anyone have a French catalogue (or Michel) which lists the un-overprinted issues and can give me their respective catalogue numbers and any value ascribed to them?

Many thanks.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Greaden »

Luigi wrote:
26 Jun 2020 02:45
French Post Offices in Zanzibar

Image

Lockdown boredom had me sorting my French Sage types and I found these two un-overprinted stamps used in Zanzibar (25c & 75c) that I had put by some years ago.

I currently have a Gibbons catalogue which only lists the overprinted Sage stamps. Does anyone have a French catalogue (or Michel) which lists the un-overprinted issues and can give me their respective catalogue numbers and any value ascribed to them?

Many thanks.
Maury (African colonies, 2014) values the 25c at 60 euros, and 75c at 200 euros. There is a 50% premium for very good centering, which your 25c seems to have, whether that refers to the stamp or the postmark. No catalogue numbers given. Postmarks on French stamps are listed at the beginning of the Zanzibar section.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by StampLearner »

Hello !

Could you comment on the stamp which, I guess, has the same cancel, as on the orange 40 c. stamp I showed a few days ago, but this cancel is not as crisp though.

Also, could you please tell me what colour it is ? I only have Maury (2011) for France, but not for colonies, and Scott defines the colour of this stamp as brown yellowish, which I do not see (the scan is very close to reality). I'd call it a variation of grey or some tint of very light bistre.

30 ceres.jpg

I'd be obliged for the answer.

Kind regards

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

Guadeloupe - Pointe à Pitre ;)

Not the same cancel, but same colonie/city ;)
My blog with my French General Colonie Collection : http://phila-colgen.blogspot.fr/

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Luigi »

Greaden wrote:
26 Jun 2020 04:24
Luigi wrote:
26 Jun 2020 02:45
French Post Offices in Zanzibar

Image

Lockdown boredom had me sorting my French Sage types and I found these two un-overprinted stamps used in Zanzibar (25c & 75c) that I had put by some years ago.

I currently have a Gibbons catalogue which only lists the overprinted Sage stamps. Does anyone have a French catalogue (or Michel) which lists the un-overprinted issues and can give me their respective catalogue numbers and any value ascribed to them?

Many thanks.
Maury (African colonies, 2014) values the 25c at 60 euros, and 75c at 200 euros. There is a 50% premium for very good centering, which your 25c seems to have, whether that refers to the stamp or the postmark. No catalogue numbers given. Postmarks on French stamps are listed at the beginning of the Zanzibar section.
Thank you, Greaden.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by StampLearner »

gugusg wrote:
26 Jun 2020 06:10

Not the same cancel, but same colonie/city ;)
Thank you !
What is the correct French name for this colour?

Kind regards

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Ceres »

Hi stamplearner,

I hesitate between a brown-olive or a brown-grey....

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by StampLearner »

Thank you, Ceres !

I'd prefer the original French name for the colour, as then it will be easier to establish through comparison.

Thank you anyway,

Kind regards.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by memphre »

StampLearner wrote:
27 Jun 2020 03:17
Thank you, Ceres !

I'd prefer the original French name for the colour, as then it will be easier to establish through comparison.

Thank you anyway,

Kind regards.
It is one of numerous shades of «BISTRE».

Now you can speak like a «connaisseur».
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I'm also Memphre on Delcampe. Always about 15,000 items in my Delcampe store: stamps, postcards and postal history. See it here: http://www.delcampe.net/boutiques/memphre

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Ceres »

Well in the Maury catalogue it is under brun-olive or brun-gris.

There are two other tones: brun (brown) and brun clair (light brown).

However the date on your cancel seems to be 18(83) or 18(89).

Assuming that it comes from the last shipment of 1876, then the colour is brun-olive.

Off that last shipment some of the unsold stamps were re-used in 1891 with the GUADELOUPE overprint.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Ceres »

"Bistre" would be more yellowish.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by StampLearner »

Thank you memphre and Ceres for the answers !

I have found the term in my Maury for France and as it has good pictures, I can clearly see it and compare.
And indeed, I'd be happy to become a "connaisseur".

Best wishes
Last edited by StampLearner on 28 Jun 2020 00:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by StampLearner »

Meanwhile is here one more stamp to ask about, definitely colonial, but too many things at the same time.

I have only found the initial info on it, but not the perfin and the Chinese characters.
I'd be grateful, if you tell me.
75с.jpg
kind regards

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Ceres »

Hi,

The Perfins are HS on top and BC, maybe the Hong Kong bank HSBC but I'm not sure.
As for the overprint in "Chinese" I think it says 75c.

Hope someone else can share more lights on your query

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

StampLearner wrote:
28 Jun 2020 00:35
Meanwhile is here one more stamp to ask about, definitely colonial, but too many things at the same time.

I have only found the initial info on it, but not the perfin and the Chinese characters.
I'd be grateful, if you tell me.

Image

kind regards
Hello,

The stamp itself without overprint is Maury 54 of Indochine (9,5€ used)
The stamp have been overprinted "30 cents" in 1919 in cents and piastres of Indochine (number 85 valued 3,5€)

Theses stamps seems to have been used in chineses offices in Indochine and overprinted chinese character and "CANTON"
You can find them in Maury in category "Canton Bureaux indochinois"

The number 62 (without the "30 cents") is valued 12 used
The Maury 79 (with "30 cents") overprint is valued 2,5€ used ==> your stamp

The perfin is a way to avoid steal of stamps by employees in big companies, it was accepted at that time by administration that stamps could be perfined by private companies but this is not a postal thing.
My blog with my French General Colonie Collection : http://phila-colgen.blogspot.fr/

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by StampLearner »

I was just going to thank Ceres for the guess, and say I'll be still waiting for someone else to share knowledge, when I dicovered this most comprehensive description from gugusg to whom I'd like to express my sincere gratitude.

The thing is I only have Maury for France, and not for colonies, of which I have a mere handful of stamps. So some things, especially cancels, I have to ask about.

Very best wishes to all

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by StampLearner »

Hello !

Though this is a stamp of the British East Africa and Uganda, it bears a French cancel of a ship line, I understand, from Reunion to Marseille.
Where should I look for more information on such cancels? Also, if possible, what is its current value?
cancel+crown.jpg
KInd regards

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Re: La Réunion à Marseille Sea Post Office Postmark (Salles 308)

Post by Joy Daschaudhuri »

StampLearner wrote:
30 Jun 2020 19:11
Hello !

Where should I look for more information on such cancels?

Image

KInd regards
The octagonal cancel on East Africa and Uganda 1907 6c SG 36 is the LA RÉUNION À MARSEILLE sea post office postmark (Salles 308) of Ligne V (Saint-Denis–Marseille).
Here V is the letter, not Roman numeral.

The lower part of the postmark has the set number of the Ligne after L.V. No., ranging 1–4 of which L.V. No.1, 2 & 4 are recorded used during 1888–1912 and L.V. No.3 in 1888–1905.

So, this postmark had L.V. No. anything among 1, 2 or 4.

If the year was visible, the L.V. No. could have been easily deduced and also the name of the specific mail steamer of Compagnie des Messageries Maritimes, on board of which the postmark was used.

Incidentally during 1897–1912, Ligne V was operational via Mahé, Seychelles.

Ref. La Poste Maritime Française Historique et Catalogue (Tome VI: Les Paquebots de l'Océan Indien Réunion–Mauritius–Australie–Nouvelle Calédonie–Bombay–Océanie–Madagascar)
Raymond Salles.
private, Paris, France 1969
Chapitre IX: La Ligne V, Marseille à la Réunion
Les cachets à date Ligne V, 1888–1912; p.143

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

There are two sources about french "poste maritime" :

1) Raymond SALLES, La Poste Maritime Française, Tome VI, les paquebots de l'Océan Indien (published in the 1960's).

2) POTHION, ALEXANDRE & ROBINEAU, Poste maritime.

The first one is much more detailed and explicative, while the second one is a more simple price list of the cancels.

The french line between Marseille and La Réunion (actually, Marseille to Mauritius) had a port of call in Zanzibar, and, from 1912 on, in Mombasa. Detached french or foreign stamps with this cancel are not rare.

Bruno

(Sorry, Joy, posted without seeing your reply)

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by StampLearner »

Thank you so much Joy Daschaudhuri and Bc92 for the quick answer and precise information. Your knowledge is amazing !

My very kind regards to both of you

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Kipling »

Looking for some information about these imperf stamps. Are they imperf versions of Spink/Maury 91 and 108, or something else? (Colonial?).
And why do the catalogues not give a used value for imperf versions of French stamps? They value them new, so why not used?
France imperf version of Maury 108?
France imperf version of Maury 108?
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France imperf version of Maury 91?
France imperf version of Maury 91?

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

Kipling, the first one is most probably a cutout from stationnery (newspaper wrapping). Printed during a long time with various shades.

Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Kipling »

Thanks Bruno - yes it looks a bit like that.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by StampLearner »

Hi everybody,

Though it does not look colonial, I'd be much obliged to you if you tell me what exactly this cut-out is. In Maury for France there is a similar stamp (label), but different colour. This one has a kind of a letter fragment on the other side.
Telegr-50.jpg
Kind regards

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by StampLearner »

Is there someone to comment on the colour of the cutout?

The only colour I found quoted by Maury for this value is 'rouge sur rose' which has nothing in common with this one.

Please help!

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

This 50 c cutout is from a Paris pneumatic letter-card, several models between 1881 and 1899, all on bluish paper.

Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

Two examples among others, taken from Delcampe current sales :

Bruno
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228_001.jpg
350_001.jpg

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by StampLearner »

Thank you so much, Bruno, for the information and the wonderful illustrations. Very helpful !

Meanwhile, I wonder why Maury does not mention possible coulour varieties.
It looks then that this cut-out was utilised for the same purpose as well. Am I correct?
Telegr-30.jpg
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by StampLearner »

OK, this time I found the right example myself (but following the ones shown by Bruno).
It is the same type of thing, also the colour not being mentioned by Maury
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1.jpg

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by StampLearner »

Greetings to everyone !

A couple of days ago I posted this image in a different thread of the same forum, the one dealing with cancels on Australian stamps.
nouvelle.jpg
Though I did get a useful clue from Ubobo.R.O. and I'm aware now that the cancel is from NOUMEA NOUVELLE CALEDONIE, French overseas territory, I could not get any other info.

Looking on the WEB I found one example of a cover (low resolution shot) suppporing the origin of the cancel, but when, how and under which circumstances such cancels were applied still remains unknown (to me).
536.jpg
If there is someone willing to share information, please do.

Kind regards

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

I guess this happened on an australian cover to Noumea, where the stamp did not receive any cancel at departure.

There was an instruction, by 1905, in the french (and also, I suppose, french colonies) postal administration to cancel such stamps with a linear administrative marking that each post office should have had at hand. Before 1905 the stamp(s) would have been barred with ink pen. It was not permitted to cancel them with a date cancel.

Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

Sorry, 1905 is not correct. I'll have to look for a certain date.

Otherwise, I stand for a stamp uncancelled at departure.

Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by StampLearner »

Thank you, Bruno !

Every piece of information is valuable. Your opinion sounds highly probable.
Just in case : this stamps was issued in 1933.

kind regards

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Re: [France / French Colonies] Thread for discussions

Post by DRKKLP »

Greaden wrote:
24 Jul 2014 02:29
I have a question about the imperforate stamps with drawn perforations from Obock and the French Somali Coast.

Who designed them? What thought went into them? What were the circumstances around their production?
1894 Somali Coast Proofs - Somali Warriors with Spears and Shields

In my collection ex Arthur Maury collections:

These were part of the Jewels of Philately exhibition at the Musee de la Poste in Paris, June 2010.
.
som 1.JPG
1894 1 cent essay of colour in violet and claret (issued stamp in black and claret). Simulated perforations.
som 2.JPG
1894 2 cent die proof in the issued colour of claret and black, simulated perforations.

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Re: [France / French Colonies] Thread for discussions

Post by Greaden »

Wow. Thank you for that. I am still curious as to the artist, and why they went for such a bold design ahead of its time.
DRKKLP wrote:
25 Jul 2020 13:11
Greaden wrote:
24 Jul 2014 02:29
I have a question about the imperforate stamps with drawn perforations from Obock and the French Somali Coast.

Who designed them? What thought went into them? What were the circumstances around their production?
1894 Somali Coast Proofs - Somali Warriors with Spears and Shields

In my collection ex Arthur Maury collections:

These were part of the Jewels of Philately exhibition at the Musee de la Poste in Paris, June 2010.
.Image
1894 1 cent essay of colour in violet and claret (issued stamp in black and claret). Simulated perforations.

Image
1894 2 cent die proof in the issued colour of claret and black, simulated perforations.

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Re: [France / French Colonies] Thread for discussions

Post by DRKKLP »

Greaden wrote:
27 Jul 2020 00:52
Wow. Thank you for that. I am still curious as to the artist, and why they went for such a bold design ahead of its time.
Sorry have not studied the stamp to that detail.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by StampLearner »

Greetings to everyone !

Though this stamp (QV Hong Kong 10c) has lost most of its colour, alas, I'm still curious about the cancel, which seems French to me. Please any opinion?
QV 10c blue-Fr. cancel.jpg

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

Mayne "ANNAM" on the bottom yes
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by StampLearner »

Thank you gugusg so much for your answer !

I might sound ignorant, but what is Mayne? "ANNAM", I understand, was a French protectorate in Northern Viet Nam.

Kind regards

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

Mayne = Maybe with a typo :D

Yes annam was in the center of Vietnam, with "HUE" city ;)
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by StampLearner »

OK, I see, thanks. I was a little confused :lol:

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