France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

General things you want to know. Stamps you can't identify. Catalogue values you need to establish. Advice on ANYTHING stamp related you want. SOMEONE might be able to help. You can post photos of the stamps right here to assist . NOTE: - We have a nearby Forum for basic questions from *NEW* collectors.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by cere-sear-seer-sere »

When the stamp arrives I'll post a full scan for a better view of the postmark -- I just purchased the stamp quite inexpensively, on a lark, thinking it was a forgery because the '1's in the two numeral '10's across the bottom (particularly the '1' in the first '10') and the last 'C' in the bottom right looked quite different from other versions I found poking around on Colnect and Stampworld -- both for France and general colonies issues.

But I'm very new to this area -- without seeing the postmark clearly, can you tell me which colonial stamp this is?

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

Hello,

this is french general colonies Cerès 10c "big number" YT18

Postmark may indicate us where it has been used :ugeek:

Guillaume
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by cere-sear-seer-sere »

Merci beaucoup, Guillaume -- I will follow up with a scan when it arrives!

- c-s-s-s

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by cere-sear-seer-sere »

Hi, Guillaume,

I've just been looking at the listing on Colnect for French Colonies YT 18 -- https://colnect.com/en/stamps/stamp/302508-Ceres-Ceres-French_Colonies -- which, if I understood you correctly, is the stamp I've just purchased. But this stamp is described as having "tinted paper." It certainly looks as such:
Cerès 10 c, French Colonies YT 18 - tinted paper
Cerès 10 c, French Colonies YT 18 - tinted paper




And here, again, is (the admittedly not great photo of) the stamp I just bought:
Cerès 10 c,  French Colonies YT 18?
Cerès 10 c, French Colonies YT 18?


It looks like it's printed on white paper... or at least not the same paper as the other example.

Could the paper have lost its coloration? (Not just fading but actually bleaching to white?) Or is there some other explanation?

Thanks,
-- c-s-s-s

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

Depending on printings, there is huge difference in color on this stamps ;)
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by cere-sear-seer-sere »

Got it, thanks. But not so much variation, I presume, that my stamp could actually be YT 11. (I imagine you would have mentioned it if that was a possibility!)

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

Hello,

Here is some various color/differences from YT18
IMG_20210822_0001.png
The YT11 has small number, unlike yours :)
IMG_20210822_0002.png
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by cere-sear-seer-sere »

Thanks, very helpful to see this illustrated. Mine still looks far and away the lightest of the bunch -- the only one with paper-based white in the goddess's cheeks -- but I can see that the range is quite large.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

I think yours is not so far from the left stamps of mine.

The bad quality of scan can explain the white paper we see. Lets see it when you will have it in hand :D
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by FSAMAAA »

I'm struggling with an airmail stamp from Togo, that appears to have been used. Neither Maury nor Scott provide a value for used, and Scott indicates that "there is doubt whether [this stamp was] officially placed in use" (I can't tell what Maury says about the stamp, as my French isn't up to par).

I'm guessing this was just a favor cancel, but I would welcome thoughts from others. Is this something special (presumably not), or is there a story to explain it?
Togo_C13_front.jpg
Togo_C13_rear.jpg
Thanks!

Rob

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Ceres »

Hi,

Looking at an old Yvert et Tellier catalogue (1985) it is the only one with a value. Valued at 5 French Francs or about 0.76 Euros

The other ones of the same set have nothing.

That same design has been used in other West African colonies as well and have no used value either.

I don't have a clear answer for it at this stage.

Cheers

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

Hello,

As a general rule, stamps for french african colonies were printed in metropolitan France, a part beeing sent to the colony for its own use, the other part beeing sold (non obliterated) to philatelists in Paris.

This scheme came to failure when, after the Nov 1942 allied landings in North Africa, the french Vichy goverment and the Vichyist colonies of West Africa could no longer communicate. The issued stamps could only be bought in metro France by collectors, and could not be used for mail at that time.

Those stamps were never made unvalid, except for those with Petain's head. So it is possible to find them with more or less late cancels.

Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by FSAMAAA »

Thanks to both for your replies. They both provided the insight I was looking for.

Next question. I have the following two Alouites stamps, with Scott (#39) identifying a Type I and Type II, but not including any additional information on to distinguish between the two. Maury (Dallay 36 I and 36 II, Maury 36 and 37) identifies a type I and type II, with the difference shown visually as the shape of the "4" in the upper-left corner of the overprint. The "4" in the second stamp shown here matches the image in Maury for type II (a thicker hypotenuse). However, the script upper-right (to the left of the double-bars) is different between the two stamps shown, and Maury doesn't show that difference.

Can someone provide some insight into whether these two stamps are indeed the type I and type II stamps, or is the second stamp something completely different.

Thanks!
Alouites_39_front.jpg
Alouites_39a_front.jpg

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Ceres »

Hi there,

They are definitely of Type I and II.

Now if you look at the stamp in the Maury catalogue under the number 45, the Arabic overprint is similar as in your number 36 type II.
Maury n45
Maury n45

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by FSAMAAA »

Ceres wrote:
10 Sep 2021 13:01
Hi there,

They are definitely of Type I and II.

Now if you look at the stamp in the Maury catalogue under the number 45, the Arabic overprint is similar as in your number 36 type II.
I appreciate your certainty. I wasn't sure whether or not I could use that image in Maury as a guide for deciphering that portion of the overprint, as the (now definitively identified) Type II stamp has "ALAOUITES" in all upper-case letters, and the image for #45 has "Alaouites" with mostly all lower case letters.

Again, thanks for providing your insight. It is very much appreciated!

Rob

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by FSAMAAA »

Next one ...

This stamp with doubled overprint isn't listed in Maury or Scott (to the best of my knowledge, at least). There are others in the series that also have the double overprint, though, that are listed. I've seen reference to a number of uncatalogued errors, and I am assuming that this is one of them.
French_Equatorial_Africa_121a_front.jpg
French_Equatorial_Africa_121a_rear.jpg
I'm more curious about this, though, because the stamp with a single overprint is valued fairly highly. Others with the double overprint catalogued show a value that is 10x higher (or more) than the single-overprint version. Using that math makes this worth pursuing.

What is the right next step to take with this stamp? Is it to acquire a expertization certificate? Something else? If expertization is the right answer, who is the right person? Jean-François Brun? How do I start the process? All I can find through Google is an e-mail address.

Thanks (as always) for everyone's help with these questions.

Rob

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Ceres »

Hi,

I'm just pointing out that this stamp has short and missing perfs. It is going to reduce its value considerably.
Also I don't collect colonies passed 1930, so I'm afraid I can't help you there, sorry.

But if you still want an expertise just visit jfbphilatelie.com and contact them.

Hope that helps

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by aerogi »

Any help on this stamp?

It is from the Bella Bellow series, issued +/- 1999

There is a brown version according to Colnect with face value 3000, and also according to stampworld (without picture, but colour is sienna).

But I have two light blue versions with face value 3000.
Togo.JPG

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by aerogi »

Ceres wrote:
11 Sep 2021 19:20
Hi,

I'm just pointing out that this stamp has short and missing perfs. It is going to reduce its value considerably.
Also I don't collect colonies passed 1930, so I'm afraid I can't help you there, sorry.

But if you still want an expertise just visit jfbphilatelie.com and contact them.

Hope that helps
I think if it is something incredibly rare and only a few copies exist, it might not reduce value considerably.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bachius »

FSAMAAA wrote:
11 Sep 2021 14:00
This stamp with doubled overprint isn't listed in Maury or Scott (to the best of my knowledge, at least). There are others in the series that also have the double overprint, though, that are listed. I've seen reference to a number of uncatalogued errors, and I am assuming that this is one of them.

ImageImage

I'm more curious about this, though, because the stamp with a single overprint is valued fairly highly. Others with the double overprint catalogued show a value that is 10x higher (or more) than the single-overprint version. Using that math makes this worth pursuing.

What is the right next step to take with this stamp? Is it to acquire a expertization certificate? Something else? If expertization is the right answer, who is the right person? Jean-François Brun? How do I start the process? All I can find through Google is an e-mail address.
Greetings, I am sorry to tell you that the two impressions that you show are false.

Of this postage stamp no authentic copy with double printing is known.

Any specialist in French stamps will also confirm what I say.

Just for comparison, I show you a postage stamp with the authentic impression.

África Ecuatorial Francesa 1940 LIBRE
África Ecuatorial Francesa 1940 LIBRE
Classic stamps of the world until 1940. Spain and Italy. Basic stamps.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by FSAMAAA »

Bachius wrote:
12 Sep 2021 05:53
Greetings, I am sorry to tell you that the two impressions that you show are false.

Of this postage stamp no authentic copy with double printing is known.

Any specialist in French stamps will also confirm what I say.
Bachius

Thank you for your insight, and for saving me the time and cost to get this expertized. When comparing the two, it is clear that the "LIBRE" overprint on my stamp is different than what is shown on yours.

Rob

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by FSAMAAA »

I'm now struggling with an interpretation of the description that Maury includes for a variation of one of the listed stamps. For Afrique Equatoriale Francaise #215 (211), it lists an "a" variation, with a description of "impression sur raccord". Google Translate is of no help with this, as it tells me that this phrase means "print on fitting".

The collection I am (slowly) working through included a variation of this stamp, where the print appears to be quite a bit less intense. The lines are thinner, and the color appears slightly lighter than the "base" version of the stamp (although both are blue). The owner of the collection listed it as "nuance claire", which Google Translate tells me means "light shade".

Any help for how to interpret what Maury really means? I've included an image of the base version, followed by what was listed as a variation.
French_Equatorial_Africa_169_base_front.jpg
French_Equatorial_Africa_169_front.jpg
Thanks!

Rob

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Ceres »

Hi Aerogli
think if it is something incredibly rare and only a few copies exist, it might not reduce value considerably.
Sure but not in that case. I should have been clearer.

To FSAMAA

Impression sur raccord is when an accident occur while in a rotating printing process and that the stamps are ripped apart, then they are stuck back together to continue the printing process and it leaves a mark

impression sur raccord
impression sur raccord
It can also happen at the paper factory when they are making the printing paper rolls

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bachius »

aerogi wrote:
12 Sep 2021 02:43
It is from the Bella Bellow series, issued +/- 1999

There is a brown version according to Colnect with face value 3000, and also according to stampworld (without picture, but colour is sienna).
But I have two light blue versions with face value 3000.
Image
Greetings, there is no 3000 F., brown stamp. The correct color is the one you show.

Both catalogs you cite are wrong.

As it says, the stamp is from 1999 and you do not have two versions, simply the first postage stamp on the left is very deteriorated.
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by aerogi »

Bachius wrote:
12 Sep 2021 23:15
aerogi wrote:
12 Sep 2021 02:43
It is from the Bella Bellow series, issued +/- 1999

There is a brown version according to Colnect with face value 3000, and also according to stampworld (without picture, but colour is sienna).
But I have two light blue versions with face value 3000.
Image
Greetings, there is no 3000 F., brown stamp. The correct color is the one you show.

Both catalogs you cite are wrong.

As it says, the stamp is from 1999 and you do not have two versions, simply the first postage stamp on the left is very deteriorated.
Then I wonder what this is which is shown in Colnect:
Bella-Bellow-Singer.jpg

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bachius »

Greetings, now that you show the postage stamp I see that I am totally wrong, I really have my reasons.

I looked at the Yvert catalog of Togo (it was a French colony) in which the color of the stamp is not specified and as you can see in 2005 there is no value of 3,000 F.

I immediately assumed that the value you showed was that of the issue from 1999.
Bella Bellow 2005 Yvert
Bella Bellow 2005 Yvert
But when you put the image of the brown color I consulted the Michel catalog and then I saw that really that was the stamp issued in 1999.
Bella Bellow 1999 Michel
Bella Bellow 1999 Michel
Therefore I come to the conclusion that seeing the image of the light blue stamp that you show where it says the year of issue (posts 2004) the Yvert catalog did not record this value.

I'm sorry I can't help you anymore since all my cataloging books only go up to 2006.

I hope you understand my explanation as my English is not very good.
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by aerogi »

Hi Bachius,

thanks a lot. It is a lot clearer now. And now that I have a catalogue number, I can add it to Colnect in the near future.

Apparently very difficult to judge for catalogue values.

Can you give me the YT number for the 3000 light blue stamp? So I can add it to colnect.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bachius »

aerogi wrote:
14 Sep 2021 19:13
Hi Bachius,
Can you give me the YT number for the 3000 light blue stamp? So I can add it to colnect.
Greetings, I'm sorry but it was impossible for me to find the value of 3000 F. of light blue color in the Yvert catalog and I have not found it in the German Michel catalog either.

These two catalogs are really very confusing when it comes to registering this series.

The 3000 F. in Brown color is the Yvert 1688DD or the Michel 2859, is the only thing I know.
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by kelliegirl33 »

I inherited some stamps and I know nothing about stamps. Here are a few of my French ones. Can anybody tell me if their worth anything ? Sorry about the pics...
Attachments
received_251139670256600.jpeg
received_1290172378115585.jpeg
received_216772823820666.jpeg
received_943608526217946.jpeg
received_376977480703684.jpeg
This is the few that I picked out
This is the few that I picked out

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Hyderabadi »

Can any one help identify where this was used? Is it 8 points or nine in the losange cancle…


FF8FAA64-D17F-421A-8A7B-E9D4C86CD800.jpeg
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

Probably losange 8x8 in Guadeloupe
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Hyderabadi »

Thanks gugusg - Reunion must be easy to collect in colonies general issues - there seem to be so many of them :) even Cochin China - rest seem to be scarcer
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

Reunion is easy ... but not all offices :p

Easy are Reunion (St Denis / St Pierre), Cochinchina (Saigon), Tonkin (Hai Phong), Guadeloupe (Pointe à Pitre, Basse Terre) and Martinique (Fort de France, St Pierre)
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by fchd »

There was an article (plus a follow-up) about the Togo Bella Bellow series about 12-18 months ago, trying to clarify the differences between the catalogues and what actually exists. I believe it was done with the co-operation of the West Africa Study Circle or something similar.

I'll try and find them and put the relevant info on here.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Phila-Tourist »

The philatelic periodical MICHEL-Rundschau is currently republishing a German translation of the Bella Bellow study. It is a very long text, so it is being published in instalments. Part two was released in June.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by abelaray »

Bc92 wrote:
14 Aug 2021 20:48
Hello, Ray
abelaray wrote:
14 Aug 2021 02:28
May I take the liberty to upload my most prized stamp so far which, although supported by a clean Robineau
certificate, has me harbouring doubts. It is the rare 15c, vert bouteille shade, and what is annoying me is the fact that
a) the keys patterns on the lower left seem to be incomplete and
b) there is no dot before the first figure of 15c

Could this be a case of excessive over-inking?
Image
I don't like it very much (personal opinion)...

The cancel is a 9x9 mute lozenge of points which is not unknown on this 15 c stamp, and is associated with canceling of waste stamps.

Bruno
Hello Bruno,

Just a brief update on this stamp.

I have sent it off to Mons Brun and he has certified it as genuine with the observations that :

a) it is over-inked at bottom left and
b) it is cancelled by an 81 dot lozenge cancel

So now it has 2 experts vouching for its integrity!

Regards,

Ray

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Uppercanadian »

Congratulations Ray. It's a beautiful stamp.
All the best,
Brad Fallon - maltonmanor at hotmail dot com

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by abelaray »

Uppercanadian wrote:
30 Sep 2021 01:24
Congratulations Ray. It's a beautiful stamp.
Thanks Brad.

Regards,

Ray

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Hyderabadi »

This is confusing, can anyone suggest the different uses of the 9x9 cancel, assumed it was used for a specific place. Beautiful stamp by the way, congratulations.
abelaray wrote:
29 Sep 2021 23:14


The cancel is a 9x9 mute lozenge of points which is not unknown on this 15 c stamp, and is associated with canceling of waste stamps.

Bruno
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

A very similat stamp here, signed by Behr :

dc8cbb5d-48b4-42da-8009-02a036f1f59b.jpg
https://www.catawiki.com/fr/l/51600575-france-ceres-1849-185 ... hr-yvert-2

Estimation 600-700€ it seems
My blog with my French General Colonie Collection : http://phila-colgen.blogspot.fr/

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abelaray
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by abelaray »

gugusg wrote:
30 Sep 2021 19:07
A very similat stamp here, signed by Behr :


Image
https://www.catawiki.com/fr/l/51600575-france-ceres-1849-185 ... hr-yvert-2

Estimation 600-700€ it seems
Very nice stamp, albeit in the regular green shade. The estimate is on the high side though, as is
often the case with Behr's auctions. In my view, around €350-€400 would be more realistic.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by VFND55 »

A minor error overprint but is this Ivory Coast error listed in any catalogues (missing bottom leg of "E" in D'Ivoire) ?

French Colony Cote D Ivoire 1c.jpgA.jpg

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

On my last Y&T this is listing only in 20c : COTE D'IVOIRF :mrgreen:

value approx 2* a normal stamp
My blog with my French General Colonie Collection : http://phila-colgen.blogspot.fr/

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by VFND55 »

Thanks gugusg for the information. I would think that multiple values of the Ivory Coast 1892-1900 Navigation & Commerce issue overprints would have this type of error. Maybe this is proof there are more to be discovered.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by VFND55 »

Marshal Henri-Philippe Pétain stamps commemorating his 88th birthday, April 1944. Once a Hero at the battle of Verdun during WWI then convicted of treason for collaborating with the Nazi regime during WWII. Are there any used covers with these stamps?

France II.jpg

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

Hello,

These three stamps were issued together on April 24th, 1944. They were bought for 20 francs for 7,50 francs of postal value.

Yes, they exist used on mail, but essentially of philatelic origin. That is of course due to the high surtax. Otherwise they correspond with common uses such as interior letter 1st and 2nd rate, and UPU letter 1st Rate.

The cat value on cover is 20 to 30 € for each of them (for normal use at the correct rate).

To be noted, they were made without value (demonetised) on Nov 1th, 1944, like all 'Petain' stamps.

Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by VFND55 »

Thank you Bruno. I thought these stamps used on covers would be more scarce since they were only available for 7 months.

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