France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

General things you want to know. Stamps you can't identify. Catalogue values you need to establish. Advice on ANYTHING stamp related you want. SOMEONE might be able to help. You can post photos of the stamps right here to assist . NOTE: - We have a nearby Forum for basic questions from *NEW* collectors.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by NCTarheel »

Hello - recently have reviewed a number of France "Liberation" stamps/sets for sale from 1944 from various dealers. Catalog pricing is referenced to Mayer in most cases - does anyone have a source for this catalog? Also interested in who Mayer was and why is he so involved with these issues. Many thanks!

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by dchris »

Mayer refers to a catalog published by Martine Mayer. She has continued a project started by her grandfather and father. The version I own is dated 11th edition, 2015 and I know of no newer edition. It is the most complete listing of Libération of which I am aware. There is an earlier treatise "Les Timbres de la Libération" by Jacques F. Lion, Éditions Sinfonia dated 1964, I think. Lion's treatise goes into greater depth per issue but doesn't cover as many issues as Mayer. Lion's book is out of print but xeroxed copies can be obtained. The name of the person who provides copies of out-of-print treatises on French philately escapes me at present. Mayer's book is probably still available and copies show up from time to time on Delcampe. Having said all this, counterfeits abound--even signed by Mayer. I assume it's as easy to forge the signature as it is to forge the overprint. I've been burned. Caveat emptor!

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by NCTarheel »

Thanks dchris -

Excellent information. Good point on the forgeries too - I wonder how close even the good dealers check the signatures, never mind the validity of all the different "RF", etc. liberation type overprints. Some of these issues have a very high catalog value!

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by dchris »

Often, items offered for sale or bid state "signed" which I believed was a gold standard until I sent a suspicious envelope to Maison Calves to be expertized and it came back marked "false" even though it was stamped with Mayer's mark. Now, if I want assurance of authenticity, I look for a certificate containing a statement describing the stamp, a photograph of the stamp and an embossed seal.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by dchris »

Earlier, I referred to a man in France who sold xeroxed copies of out-of-print books dealing with French philately. I found his name and have posted it below. I've purchased a number of treatises from him. The copies have always been clean and neatly bound. The drawback is that xeroxing does not do a good job copying printed photos so any illustrations in these books which depend on photography are virtually useless. On the plus side, line drawings and text reproduce very well. Net result: the reprints are well worth the money.

Jacques Putard putardjacques@yahoo.fr

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by NCTarheel »

Thanks for that information dchris; I'll give him a try!

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by DJCMH »

Bonjour à tous!
France 1944 Liberation local overprint - which city?
France 1944 Liberation local overprint - which city?
Could someone help me identify which of the Liberation local overprints from 1944 the stamp above is from. Colnect has it listed as Lyon, but checking my Maury 2011 the overprint does not look at all right so I think it has been misattributed.

Merci d'avance :)

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by NCTarheel »

Rather than an individual location, this appears to be the general issue of 1944 - check Yvert Cat # 659

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by DJCMH »

Ah, definitiely misidentified then!

Thanks!
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by mbg1248 »

I was recently offered this 1949 French cover. I have not been able to find something similar. Does anyone have an idea what the value is?
France-1949-cover2.jpg

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by dchris »

My guess is that it is not an official creation but merely a cover sent to a friend on the occasion of the centenary of the first French stamp. As such, it certainly has value for one collecting stamps on envelopes or covers marking a special event. I would not expect to find anything like this in a catalogue. That said, I find it interesting that not only does it commemorate an event but it is also directed to a country/colony that no longer exists, Southern Rhodesia.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by NCTarheel »

Maury prices the stamps, at least for the "centenaire " band portion, as 15 euro each on cover so I suppose a catalog value could be in that 50 to 60 euro range for all of them. There is no price listed for the entire band (catalog 833A) on cover. The other stamps on cover are insignificant.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Clapas »

This cover is very beautiful ;) ;) ;) ;)
The band of stamps concerning the centenary of the French postage stamp (833A) only on letter is between 5 and 10 euros on Delcampe :|
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by sagi2917 »

Some new entities added to the collection:

LEBANON (FRENCH MANDATE) 1924-1941
SAINTE-MARIE DE MADAGASCAR 1894
MAYOTTE (FRENCH COLONY) 1892-1912
PORT LAGOS (FRENCH POST OFFICE) 1893 - 1898
FRENCH COLONY OF DAHOMEY 1899-1944

IMG_8888.JPG

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Kipling »

This is Y & T 128, the high value of the five 1902 Mouchons,type - “ Mouchon retouché”

Mouchon retouché
Mouchon retouché


I have a set of these that I am thinking of selling, but I can't find any information about the “retouché”. My catalogues are silent on the question.

In case I am asked I would like to know the answer.

Can any of you assist?

Many thanks.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by David Benson »

That is to differentiate the 1902 issue which now has the word POSTES at the top,

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Kipling »

Thanks David.
I was expecting something more subtle!
The 1900 set has "Postes" in the value circle - so they just took it out of there and moved it to the top of the stamp. I wonder why?
Thanks again,
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by memphre »

I would say the difference is a little more than moving the word POSTES .

In fact, the value tablet in the original series is rectangular and incorporates the word POSTES at the top, whereas the «retouché» set sports a shield shaped value tablet and the word POSTES is moved into the top border.

Nothing like an image:
2021-07-07-0001.jpg
France - Mouchon and Mouchon retouché

The first two lines show the original set, the bottom line the "retouché" set. Note the two types of 10 and 25 cent. in the original set. These are the only values in the first set that exist both printed in a single pass and printed in two passes where only the value figures were printed separately.

Of course, printing in two passes generated some badly centred values as well as value figures in shades slightly different from the rest of the stamp.
2021-07-08-0001.jpg
France - Mouchon 20 cent. two passes printing

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Kipling »

Thanks Memphre.
I have the first set and I must admit I am having some difficulty in seeing the difference between the two 10s and the two 25s. Old eyes maybe.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by dchris »

For the 10c, look at the bottom of the digit 1. Type 1 is straight across the bottom and type 2 is definitely curved. For both the 10c and the 25c, in type 1, the frame surrounding the value is unbroken while in type 2, that frame is broken across the bottom. For old eyes, such as mine, I scan the stamp and enlarge it on my computer to see the state of the frame. Thank heavens for a high definition scanner and a computer!

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by NCTarheel »

Good points all! Maury catalogue explains the differences very well. All Type I's were printed in two passes and all Type II's were printed in one pass. Hence there can be no displaced values in Type 2's. And as Memphre explained only the 10c and 25c were printed in both Types. The 15c was only printed in Type II while the 20c and 30c were only printed in Type 1. Very interesting set with many possible variances.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Lokomotiv »

Hello,
I have this Navigation & Commerce issue Guadeloupe stamp which has a cancel that I am trying to locate where on Guadeloupe or wherever this was cancelled. I believe it is Colon A Bord, which was translated by Google as "Settler on board". Looks to me that it has a 1904 date on it.

I doubt that it was cancelled on board a vessel, I don't know.

I've gone to an on line map of Guadeloupe and and had a look at all the various populated areas with no luck, though the name could very well likely have been changed by now.

I've searched for Guadeloupe postal cancellations, again coming up empty.

Would anyone have an idea about this?
Colon A Bord II0000107-11-2021_.jpg
.
Colon A Bord II0000207-11-2021_.jpg
Last edited by Lokomotiv on 12 Jul 2021 13:04, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by David Benson »

Posted on board French Paquebot ship, Colon, Panama to Bordeaux, France,

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Lokomotiv »

Thanks very much David,

Your reply was faster than I could edit the post. :lol:

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by abelaray »

Hello to all,

I have recently started to focus on classic France stamps, beginning with the 1849-50 Ceres issue.

Whilst I am fully aware that this collecting area is a minefield in so far as the volume of forgeries
peddled on the market is concerned, I was not expecting to encounter so many difficulties in weeding out
forged stamps. And this in spite of investing in a couple of good books on the subject!

For example, I purchased the attached stamp as a Sperati forgery hoping to be able to compare it
with a genuine stamp. I first sent it off to Monsieur JF Brun, the top expert on these issues, who
confirmed that it is indeed a forgery, but not by Sperati (he did not identify the forger).

Would anyone kindly assist in explaining a) the differences between my forged stamp and the Sperati
version of same and b) the differences as against the original stamp?

I have searched on the Internet but cannot seem to locate a comprehensive site
on this topic.
Ceres 40c forgery
Ceres 40c forgery
Many thanks in advance,

Ray

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by earlierthebetter »


I really like this registered cover from Indochine / Indochina to Bellingen NSW Australia.

Bellingen is a small town about 500 klms north of Sydney.

The cover features four stamps from the Exposition Internationale held in Paris France in 1937 plus a 6c definitive.

Posted on 1st September 1937 at Lao-Kay, Tonkin and back-stamped Saigon, Singapore, Sydney and finally Bellingen on 30th September 1937.

The wax seal reads Luong (star symbol) Luong.

It has seen better days but I think quite unusual origin and destination combination.

.
A6D83DD5-B709-495E-9FD4-D61C96CCBB03.jpeg
.
610D1511-9B2F-4785-92CF-6D259E2DB8D1.jpeg
.
9724A5B6-6690-47F2-ADCF-F7672F748515.jpeg
.
Cheers

Greg
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

Hello,
abelaray wrote:
13 Aug 2021 00:04
Would anyone kindly assist in explaining a) the differences between my forged stamp and the Sperati
version of same and b) the differences as against the original stamp?
The quality of the forgery is impressive, however two things strike me :

- The colour is much too dark, and much too uniform.

- The grill lozenge cancel has rounded corners, hence is fake.

I would class the stamp in the modern forgeries, with no strong argument.

Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by abelaray »

Thank you very much Bruno for your input.

Your observation about the "grille" cancellation is very helpful. I had concentrated mainly on the stamp design,
but now that I am checking the cancellations on my other Ceres stamps, I can confirm that none of the "grilles"
have rounded edges like my forgery. It would be very interesting to discover the source of this forgery, and why
the seller attributed it to Sperati.....

I am now uploading another forgery, though bought as genuine, this time the 20c black. Apart from the thicker
top and bottom frame lines, are there any other clues?

Best Regards,
Ray
ceres20cnoirforgery.jpg

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

Ray, allow me to return your question,

What are your reasons for making this 20 c a forgery ?

Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by abelaray »

Hi Bruno,

I sent it to Monsieur JF Brun for his opinion and he confirmed that it is forged.

I understand that Mons Brun is one of the top French experts right?

Thanks
Ray

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

Ah, OK, both were seen by Brun. Yes, Brun is the best for french (and colonies) stamps.

On the black stamps, there are small differences in some details with the original.

In your fake, the wavy vertical lines are connected by small lines. In the original (see below), it is points, not lines.

The hair on top of the head, the dots on the jaws and neck, are more precisely drawn on the original, giving an impression of "downstrokes and upstrokes".

A stamp of mine :
IMG_20210813_0001.jpg
Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by abelaray »

Bc92 wrote:
14 Aug 2021 01:15
Ah, OK, both were seen by Brun. Yes, Brun is the best for french (and colonies) stamps.

On the black stamps, there are small differences in some details with the original.

In your fake, the wavy vertical lines are connected by small lines. In the original (see below), it is points, not lines.

The hair on top of the head, the dots on the jaws and neck, are more precisely drawn on the original, giving an impression of "downstrokes and upstrokes".

A stamp of mine :

Image

Bruno
Thanks again Bruno,

Not easy at all to weed these out............. I guess one needs a lot of experience handling these issues.

May I take the liberty to upload my most prized stamp so far which, although supported by a clean Robineau
certificate, has me harbouring doubts. It is the rare 15c, vert bouteille shade, and what is annoying me is the fact that
a) the keys patterns on the lower left seem to be incomplete and
b) there is no dot before the first figure of 15c

Could this be a case of excessive over-inking?
ceres15cvertbouteille.jpg
Regards
Ray

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

Hello, Ray
abelaray wrote:
14 Aug 2021 02:28
May I take the liberty to upload my most prized stamp so far which, although supported by a clean Robineau
certificate, has me harbouring doubts. It is the rare 15c, vert bouteille shade, and what is annoying me is the fact that
a) the keys patterns on the lower left seem to be incomplete and
b) there is no dot before the first figure of 15c

Could this be a case of excessive over-inking?
Image
I don't like it very much (personal opinion)...

The cancel is a 9x9 mute lozenge of points which is not unknown on this 15 c stamp, and is associated with canceling of waste stamps.

Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Hyderabadi »

Can any one suggest if this stamp is ok - supposed to be with India Postmark
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Greaden »

The postmark is Pondichery. The margins are wide enough to rule out a snipped French stamp.
Hyderabadi wrote:
15 Aug 2021 23:25
Can any one suggest if this stamp is ok - supposed to be with India Postmark

Image

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Hyderabadi »

Greaden wrote:
15 Aug 2021 23:48
The postmark is Pondichery. The margins are wide enough to rule out a snipped French stamp.
Hyderabadi wrote:
15 Aug 2021 23:25
Can any one suggest if this stamp is ok - supposed to be with India Postmark


Thank you Greaden for the quick response - very helpful
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

Greaden wrote:
15 Aug 2021 23:48
The postmark is Pondichery. The margins are wide enough to rule out a snipped French stamp.
Hyderabadi wrote:
15 Aug 2021 23:25
Can any one suggest if this stamp is ok - supposed to be with India Postmark

Image
Agree it is a colonial stamp, not a french one
My blog with my French General Colonie Collection : http://phila-colgen.blogspot.fr/

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

abelaray wrote:
14 Aug 2021 02:28
Bc92 wrote:
14 Aug 2021 01:15
Ah, OK, both were seen by Brun. Yes, Brun is the best for french (and colonies) stamps.

On the black stamps, there are small differences in some details with the original.

In your fake, the wavy vertical lines are connected by small lines. In the original (see below), it is points, not lines.

The hair on top of the head, the dots on the jaws and neck, are more precisely drawn on the original, giving an impression of "downstrokes and upstrokes".

A stamp of mine :

Image

Bruno
Thanks again Bruno,

Not easy at all to weed these out............. I guess one needs a lot of experience handling these issues.

May I take the liberty to upload my most prized stamp so far which, although supported by a clean Robineau
certificate, has me harbouring doubts. It is the rare 15c, vert bouteille shade, and what is annoying me is the fact that
a) the keys patterns on the lower left seem to be incomplete and
b) there is no dot before the first figure of 15c

Could this be a case of excessive over-inking?
Image

Regards
Ray
Not a big fan of it too, it should be verified by an expert I think ...
My blog with my French General Colonie Collection : http://phila-colgen.blogspot.fr/

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

Bc92 wrote:
14 Aug 2021 01:15
Ah, OK, both were seen by Brun. Yes, Brun is the best for french (and colonies) stamps.

On the black stamps, there are small differences in some details with the original.

In your fake, the wavy vertical lines are connected by small lines. In the original (see below), it is points, not lines.

The hair on top of the head, the dots on the jaws and neck, are more precisely drawn on the original, giving an impression of "downstrokes and upstrokes".

A stamp of mine :

Image

Bruno
The differences are very small with a correct one and could be by overinking.
If Brun told it is a fake, you should trust him he is by far the best expert right now. And having it in hand is better to see the fake.
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

abelaray wrote:
13 Aug 2021 00:04
Hello to all,

I have recently started to focus on classic France stamps, beginning with the 1849-50 Ceres issue.

Whilst I am fully aware that this collecting area is a minefield in so far as the volume of forgeries
peddled on the market is concerned, I was not expecting to encounter so many difficulties in weeding out
forged stamps. And this in spite of investing in a couple of good books on the subject!

For example, I purchased the attached stamp as a Sperati forgery hoping to be able to compare it
with a genuine stamp. I first sent it off to Monsieur JF Brun, the top expert on these issues, who
confirmed that it is indeed a forgery, but not by Sperati (he did not identify the forger).

Would anyone kindly assist in explaining a) the differences between my forged stamp and the Sperati
version of same and b) the differences as against the original stamp?

I have searched on the Internet but cannot seem to locate a comprehensive site
on this topic.
Image
Many thanks in advance,

Ray
The color is not very good yes, too bight, or it is your scan.

Why the seller told you is it sperati : because the Sperati's one are often more expensive than real stamps.
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Hyderabadi
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Hyderabadi »

66E84B63-45C9-466C-B64F-96E1F2FCB060.jpeg
4C9C7B96-8C48-4CB8-88D8-266247CE5A0C.jpeg
0E928C67-68EE-4CA7-A3A3-71B7E8A41E9A.jpeg
If you could share your opinion on these as well please… are they colonials?
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

Yes for me this is colonial stamps
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Hyderabadi »

896622A5-6A04-4FC8-BD10-FD9DF70465D6.jpeg
2B04D5BC-66D9-44CD-9E1F-3F05042D644A.jpeg
2D520EBC-608C-4390-9714-30FB55468E53.jpeg
652759DE-2072-4C58-A45F-1EE09C8E1FC2.jpeg
465A4F9E-505F-4806-9C1A-94A216C8C0C2.jpeg
Could I ask the experts opinion on these - are they ok & would you pay 10 euros for each of them?
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

theses are General colonies from India - Pondichery

I think 10€ each is a little overpriced - quality is not the best - I have probably the same for way less :lol:
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Hyderabadi »

gugusg wrote:
17 Aug 2021 05:38
theses are General colonies from India - Pondichery

I think 10€ each is a little overpriced - quality is not the best - I have probably the same for way less :lol:
Thanks for the response… yes was wondering about the quality. Will have to look out for better ones :(
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

send me an email if you need something, I could check :D
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by JonEboy »

I was wondering if the experts on this thread might be able to help me with this cover?

I bought it at auction as a curiosity because it contains a single Barbados stamp, which as you can see has been neatly cancelled 'Versailles Congres De La Paix - 7/5/19'.

scan 87 copy.jpg


Initial research has uncovered a bit about the event and the cancellation, but nothing about why a Barbados stamp might be on this cover. As far as I can tell, Barbados did not attend this conference.

Does anyone have anything which might help unravel the mystery?

Thanks in advance,

Jon
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by abelaray »

Bc92 wrote:
14 Aug 2021 20:48
Hello, Ray
abelaray wrote:
14 Aug 2021 02:28
May I take the liberty to upload my most prized stamp so far which, although supported by a clean Robineau
certificate, has me harbouring doubts. It is the rare 15c, vert bouteille shade, and what is annoying me is the fact that
a) the keys patterns on the lower left seem to be incomplete and
b) there is no dot before the first figure of 15c

Could this be a case of excessive over-inking?
Image
I don't like it very much (personal opinion)...

The cancel is a 9x9 mute lozenge of points which is not unknown on this 15 c stamp, and is associated with canceling of waste stamps.

Bruno

Hi Bruno,

Attaching herewith certificate which accompanied the stamp. I understand that Mons Robineau is also
one of the top experts?

Regards
Ray
15cVertBouteilleCert.jpg

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by cere-sear-seer-sere »

I assume this is a forgery; does it happen to be an interesting or easily identifiable one?

France stamp - Yvert 36 forgery
France stamp - Yvert 36 forgery


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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

It is not a forgery but is it a colonial stamp for sure.

A better image could maybe help us identifying the postmark,

Guillaume
My blog with my French General Colonie Collection : http://phila-colgen.blogspot.fr/

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