France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

General things you want to know. Stamps you can't identify. Catalogue values you need to establish. Advice on ANYTHING stamp related you want. SOMEONE might be able to help. You can post photos of the stamps right here to assist . NOTE: - We have a nearby Forum for basic questions from *NEW* collectors.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by JonEboy »

Memphre is correct, so hopefully this helps?

Image
Image

Description from eBay;
Colonie Générale N°18 10c Brun S. Rose BDF Superbe Neuf *. Cote 280 €. On ne peut pas savoir si c'est le colonie ou le 10c de France en non dentelé.
Good old Google Translate reckons it says;
"General Colony No. 18 10c Brown S. Rose BDF Superb Nine *. Price 280 €. We can not know if it is the colony or the 10c of France in not serrated." (I'm guessing that's imperforate)

Item No: 352425658397
Seller: Au Phil Du Timbre 'fredericm'
Feedback: 15,242 with one negative in the last twelve months.

Now, back to the original question,
vnmission wrote:The discription seems to be misleading:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eb ... 2425658397

Can someone help identify this item please? Thank you.
Jon
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

Image

The problem is that the 10 c brown on rose with small figures does not exist unperf as Colonies Générales. Col Gén 18 is with large figures. Hence this should be n° 58 of France unperf, whether the lack of perforation is accidental or from an official collections printing. So the title of the sale is misleading. However, the french unperf 58 is more than two times the catalog price of Col Gén 18.

Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by memphre »

Hi

Bruno has it right, small figures 10 cent. brown on rose can only be mainland France. :oops: :oops:

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by JonEboy »

A case in point as to why we need images on posts like these :!:

Thanks for the information Memphre and Bc92 and well spotted :D

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by vnmission »

Thank you all very much. Can it be some kind of a colour proof, please?

I will be trying to post images here.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Greaden »

Here is a French Colonies stamp postmarked from the long-forgotten entity of Cote d'Or et Gabon, which existed from 1859-1886 when the Cote d'Or (now the Cote d'Ivoire) was attached to Senegal, while Gabon joined the newly conquered French Congo, and ultimately French West Africa and French Equatorial Africa diverged as separate colonies.

Image

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Ceres »

Good find Greaden.

Pity we can't see the date

Cheers

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by vnmission »

Bc92 wrote:Image

The problem is that the 10 c brown on rose with small figures does not exist unperf as Colonies Générales. Col Gén 18 is with large figures. Hence this should be n° 58 of France unperf, whether the lack of perforation is accidental or from an official collections printing. So the title of the sale is misleading. However, the french unperf 58 is more than two times the catalog price of Col Gén 18.

Bruno
Thank you, Bruno. I found the 58b in Yvert, which in 2007 was valued at 600, while the Colonies 18 was 270 euros.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Greaden »

This, I take it, is from Obock, and probably not CTO.

Image

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Greaden »

Can anyone tell me where this red lozenge postmark came from?

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

most probably Reunion :D
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Greaden »

gugusg wrote:most probably Reunion :D
Thank you! Merci bien!

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

you're welcome ! :)
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by aerogi »

Sharing a few from my collection. I know most of them have been cut too short, but perhaps some cancels may be interesting. Especially first picture, 2nd stamps I wonder what kind of cancel it is. Cancel with '1' in the third picture, is that for Paris? In the last picture there is a gutter pair, but the '8' seems like up-side-down. The last stamp does have a word above, could that be from a publicity tab?

Image

Image

Image

Image

[Image

Image

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

Aerogi, all the numeral lozenge cancels seem to come from medium to large post-offices with no or very small bonus from the cancel.

- 1st line, 2nd stamp : A 20 c Cérès cancelled by a grill (the grill was normal in Paris and province from 1849 to 1851 included). No bonus.

There are two cancels from Paris :

- 2nd line, 4th stamp : 40 c Empire cancelled by a Paris mute star (head post-office, Paris, 1852-1876). No bonus.
- 3rd line, 2nd stamp : 80 c Empire cancelled with star 1, Paris "Place de la Bourse" post-office, 1863-1876, no bonus because a very busy post office.

Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

I forgot the last line !

The 5 c green sower is known with the "8" figure - for 1908 - of the year reversed (3 to 4 times scarcer).

The 30 c blue sower looks like from a booklet but I could'nt recognize which one from what can be seen of the advert.

Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

I also forgot another from Paris : 2nd line, 1st stamp, 1 c Empire with date stamp (DS) Paris (DS) / 60. From secondary Paris post office D1 (or DS1) attached to district D post office, before sept 1863. Very probably on a printed matter. D1 was located near North railway station. I don't think you get any real bonus with this one either, even if it might help forget the slightly short corner.

Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by aerogi »

Bc92 wrote:I also forgot another from Paris : 2nd line, 1st stamp, 1 c Empire with date stamp (DS) Paris (DS) / 60. From secondary Paris post office D1 (or DS1) attached to district D post office, before sept 1863. Very probably on a printed matter. D1 was located near North railway station. I don't think you get any real bonus with this one either, even if it might help forget the slightly short corner.

Bruno
Hi, thanks for the updates!

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Kipling »

Hi all. I have recently started to collect France.

The “classic” period seems to be a minefield and I would be grateful for your opinion of this stamp, the postmark and the signature on the reverse. I bought it as being Y2 (Scott 2, SG4)?

Image

Image

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

Hi.

Your stamp looks genuine (as far as one can say "genuine" from a scan). The cancel is the normal one, a dotted star from Paris (15 c was the specific rate for Paris to Paris letters).

The signature is Georg Richter's, but it is said that it doesn't prove much, as it is known to have been faked or to exist on fake stamps.

Apart from the left margin beeing short, there seems to be a thin on top (left side on the reverse).

Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Kipling »

Thank you Bruno.
There is indeed a thin. I hadn't noticed it and I doubt if the seller did either. I might try to get a small part refund from him. It is not a stamp I could afford in a fine condition.
This thread is a wonderful resource - I have read it from start to finish and will do so again.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Kipling »

Image

Image

Can anyone assist with this cover? Bruno?

1. The cancellations have the day and month but no year that I can see. The letter is dated Dec 1871 (I thought it looked like 1870 but the stamp wasn't released till Sept 1871?)

2. The letter was sent from Chabanais to Montemboeuf, both small places? And close together (Google says 22.3 kms ). There's a third postmark but it's not complete. Do these cancellations add any interest or value to the cover?

(The scans are enhanced to make them more readable - the original looks better.)
Cheers

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

Kippling, you are right it's december 1871. It happens that the year is hardly or not visible. In 1871, but most often in the prussian occupied zone of sept 1870-april 1871, it could also happen that the small metal piece for 71 had not been sent due to postal disorganisation. Most probably not the case here.

Otherwise it is an ordinary letter. The Chabanais 825 lozenge is not a rarity. I think the partially legible transit date stamp could be 'La Rochefoucauld', west of Montembeuf.

Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Kipling »

Thanks Bruno.
'La Rochefoucauld' makes sense, as it seems the Chateau is Montemboeuf''s main claim to fame.
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by vnmission »

Can someone help tell the difference between France number 1 and general Colonies number 11, please? Thank you!

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

First, France #1(1850) and France #36 (1870) are the same stamp, the second one being issued with perfs. That second stamp was also issued in 1871 unperf for use in Colonies (Col #11).
So we have 3 stamps, the 1st one being 20 years older.

On a cancelled stamp, it is rather easy, most of the time, to tell a colonial cancel from a metropolitan one, by the date or by the type of the cancel.

On an unused stamp, it is more difficult to distinguish France #1 from Colonies #11. The colonial stamp is (exactly like France YT 36) rather less finely printed. The paper is more yellowish-brown. There is also a difference in gum but I am not able to describe it.

Moreover, France #1 had an official reprint in 1862, and France #36 had also a 'Granet' unperf reprint in 1887.

Could you show your stamp, or was it a general question ?

Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by vnmission »

Thank you very much, Bruno.
I collect Colonies only, hence highly appreciate your comments on France. Now I know if a seller says it's a Colonies, it highly likely is. If he/she says it's France #1, we have to check carefully.

I want to acquire a copy of France #1 for comparison. Do you think this offer is good enough? Thank you!
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eb ... 2409983357

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by memphre »

[quote="vnmission"

I want to acquire a copy of France #1 for comparison. Do you think this offer is good enough? Thank you!
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eb ... 2409983357[/quote]

This looks like a reprint. A number 1 would be a darker shade of brown, not so yellowish.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by vnmission »

Can someone help me with a photo of Colonies Generales YT#36A please? I have never seen a genuine one. Delcampe lists an item said to be the one, but it looks like YT#29 to me:
https://www.delcampe.net/en_GB/collectables/stamps/france-fo ... 37882.html

Thank you!

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by memphre »

vnmission wrote:Can someone help me with a photo of Colonies Generales YT#36A please? I have never seen a genuine one. Delcampe lists an item said to be the one, but it looks like YT#29 to me:
https://www.delcampe.net/en_GB/collectables/stamps/france-fo ... 37882.html

Thank you!
Hi

Sorry I don't have a used Yv 36A to show but you are right the stamp you refer to on Delcampe is a type I #29 as can be seen even with the very bad scan. "N" from signature "INV" is clearly under the "B" of "REPUBLIQUE", not under the "U" as a type II would.

I've notified the seller.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

YT#36A (colonial) is still shaded with mystery.

No unperf 1 F Peace and Commerce type 2 N/U was ever intended to be sent to colonies.

One unperf partial sheet (100 stamps) from France was sent (as specimen, but without any overprint) to UPU.

Some stamps of this sheet 'managed' to get into the stamps trade, and some of them were presented by owners in Indochina to get cancels from there. Yvert also lists a french unperf (YT#82b) which is or which is not the same.

Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

Yes I do not understand why Y&T list this, the status of the stamps is clearly not a real stamp sent by administration to colonies ...
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by vnmission »

Thank you all so much! I noted it was mentioned somewhere that the stamp was only "used" in Tonkin in 1884!

I don't know if it's appropriate, but I am looking for the following stamps to complete my collection (Y&T numbers of colonies generales):

USED anywhere IN INDOCHINA: #2a, 13b, 19, 24, 26, 28, 30, 31, 33, 37, 42, 44;

MINT: #2a, 13b, 16.

If you happen to have and can part with any of these items, please kindly inform me. Thank you!

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

I think I can sell you a lot and send you pics of a lot of exemples, send me an email ! :)
My blog with my French General Colonie Collection : http://phila-colgen.blogspot.fr/

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by vnmission »

Email sent. Thank you!

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Eli »

VNmission and all,

If you need an album pages to host your French Indochina stamps, please contact me. I sell a digital PDF file that you can print out in your own printer. Here are 2 pages of the digital album (I had to reduce resolution in order to post them here):

Image

Image

The same pages with real stamps from my collection:

Image

Image

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

vnmission wrote:Thank you all so much! I noted it was mentioned somewhere that the stamp was only "used" in Tonkin in 1884!

I don't know if it's appropriate, but I am looking for the following stamps to complete my collection (Y&T numbers of colonies generales):

USED anywhere IN INDOCHINA: #2a, 13b, 19, 24, 26, 28, 30, 31, 33, 37, 42, 44;

MINT: #2a, 13b, 16.

If you happen to have and can part with any of these items, please kindly inform me. Thank you!
42 & 44 have not been delivered in cochinchina :D
2a is what exactly ? not on my Y&T :( 5 without circle ?
13b is very scarce :)
My blog with my French General Colonie Collection : http://phila-colgen.blogspot.fr/

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by vnmission »

gugusg wrote:42 & 44 have not been delivered in cochinchina :D
2a is what exactly ? not on my Y&T :( 5 without circle ?
13b is very scarce :)
- Please kindly identify the source for information related to #42 and 44 (my Y&T 2006 does not mention that they were not distributed to Cochinchina).
- Yes, 2a is Y&T #5 "sans parentheses".
- I am aware that #13b, as well as #16, are scare and prepared to consider higher prices.
Thank you very much, gugusg. I look forward to your emails.

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

#13b is very very scarse, I do not have any from cochinchina myself :)

Image


For YT2a, this is only an "overinking", not a real different stamps :) so you can find different versions from "totally absent" to "circle very visible" :)

For the tirages, I have compiled a lot of sources from official papers to define what have been sent and where. Here is an short example :

Image
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by vnmission »

Your information is extremely helpful, Gugusg. I hope you can share with us the rest of your compilation.
I have #38 (2c brun-lilas) and #39 (4c lilas-brun) cancelled in Cochinchina. I will try to learn how to post an image here.
Please also look for other items in my want list. Again, thank you!

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by vnmission »

Does general colonies number 56 have imperforated copies like this one, please:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eb ... 3104821933

Thank you!

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Bc92 »

This Alphee Dubois issue is known for its unperforated essays, of roughly the same colors than the perf stamps. They have approximately the same value than the mint perf stamps.

Then you have the more distinguished "Regents printing".

And it is always possible in theory that a sheet first or last row was not perforated, leaving stamps unperf on 3 sides, the 4th side beeing "arranged" (trimmed) later.

Bruno

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by vnmission »

Thank you very much, Bruno. I learn from you every day!

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Greaden »

Here is a French (general) Colonies stamp postmarked St. Bartholmy right after France acquired the island from Sweden:

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Greaden »

Obock:

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by David Benson »

Greaden,

Looks like St. Pierre, Guadeloupe to me,

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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by gugusg »

There is not St Pierre in Guadeloupe if I am not wrong, and it is really St Barthelemy. Nice cancel scarse :)
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David Benson
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2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by David Benson »

Gusgug,

I can see it now,

David B.

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Greaden
I was online for Post Number 6 MILLION!
I was online for Post Number 6 MILLION!
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Joined: 02 Dec 2012 16:02
Location: Philadelphia, USA

Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by Greaden »

Phew! I spent the day re-examining the postmark, and consulting Maury and Stone. Now I am reassured.

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JonEboy
5000 Great Posts - WHAT a Milestone!
5000 Great Posts - WHAT a Milestone!
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Re: France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

Post by JonEboy »

I picked this cover up as an addition to my Algeria collection, hoping to demonstrate usage. The cover is from Oran to Vienna, Austria. There's a nice TB label on the back which is a bonus but my question is, can anyone confirm that 3Fr90 is the correct rate for the period, April 1928?

Image
Image

Also, is there an online resource for checking postal rates from the colonies for this period?

Thanks

Jon
Barbados, Commonwealth, France & Colonies, GB, Line Engraved, Intaglio & Recess printed stamps
http://www.barbadosstamps.co.uk

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