Torres Strait Settlement & Murray Steam Nav. Co local stamps

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Torres Strait Settlement & Murray Steam Nav. Co local stamps

Post by iomoon »

Wanted, information on the stamps of these locals - particularly where and when "stamps" were issued.

I collect Volcanos on stamps

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Re: Torres Strait Islands local stamps info wanted.

Post by Global Administrator »

Jim .. history a bit murky - value about $500 a full set.

1870 (?) Torres Strait Settlement 4c to 36c complete (missing the 2c brown), the 4c is marginal, the 16c & 36c have one straight edge, unused. Very scarce "phantom" issue.

The Torres Strait labels offered here are all part of the "Brussels Find": see our auction #180 of 7/5/2013.


https://www.prestigephilately.com/cats.php?sortcode=viclovic&auctionnum=180

- these are all "T" lots so local buyers needed to add 10% GST to the Hammer price and THEN the 20% of whatever buyer fee.


Lots of Murray Steam Navigation Co stamps there as well -
Image

Image
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Re: Torres Strait Islands local stamps info wanted.

Post by iomoon »

Thanks Glen. What is "Brussels find"?

It's not found by Google though this post already is.

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Re: Torres Strait Islands local stamps info wanted.

Post by Rod Perry »

"A bit murky" sounds almost complimentary, Glen.

Downright bogus, created by the same philatelic "entrepreneurs" who created the equally bogus Murray Steam Navigation Co (MSNC) "locals" of Victoria. (also part of the Brussels find)

The supposed cover bearing a "tied" by signature MSNC stamp?

Famous that may be, but it's also bogus.

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Re: Torres Strait Islands local stamps info wanted.

Post by Global Administrator »

Rod Perry wrote:"A bit murky" sounds almost complimentary, Glen.

Downright bogus, created by the same philatelic "entrepreneurs" who created the equally bogus Murray Steam Navigation Co (MSNC) "locals" of Victoria. (also part of the Brussels find)

The supposed cover bearing a "tied" by signature MSNC stamp?

Famous that may be, but it's also bogus.

Rod

Yes an interesting issue. Totally different perforation and centering standard to the Torres Strait Settlement stamps however. To sidetrack Iomoon's topic for a moment .... :mrgreen:

I personally had always liked the MSNC, but spoke at length with Tony Presgrave at a recent show where he had a display on Murray River stamps, and he has researched these ,and also does not think the story stacks up with owner of the company and alleged user of the cover as laid out by Allan Levy seller of the cover below. I also asked Geoff Kellow his thoughts, as as you will know he is not too keen on them either. :lol:

In 1981 I purchased via a USA auction, in a cheap collection of navigation related locals, the only 2 'used' copies reported off cover. These were the 1d and 3d values, and were cancelled by a lazy rhombus of pen dots.

The used 3d value is illustrated in Bill Hornadge's 'Local Stamps Of Australia' handbook. I sold it for a VERY handsome sum that year, and it has appeared in several major actions since, always getting hefty prices. The "cancel" May have been done by a bored kid - who really knows, but it cost me zero!

Only one cover is known from this series, being noted "per S.S. Kelpie" Murray River riverboat, and addressed to the Police Magistrate at Echuca Victoria, and backstamped there February 10, 1869. A 2d Victoria stamp paid the inward postage. A 3d 'Local' allegedly paying the riverboat conveyance charge is affixed and pen-cancelled.

This cover was auctioned in October 1992 by Corinphila Switzerland for 14,950 Swiss francs, or double the 7500 franc pre-sale estimate. This was well in excess of $A15,000 at the time, and sadly I can't source an image of that - maybe someone else can?

The usually collected set has denominations - ½d, 1d, 2d and 3d. The usually seen ½d is inscribed "HALF PENNY". A few were printed in error inscribed 'HALF PENCE'. It appears only a few copies of this error are known.

One I recall seeing was as part of the full set of 5 values. Rodney Perry offered this set in his 'Ausipex' Rarity Auction in 1984. The set was unsold on estimate $A2,000-$2,500. Rod may recall what happened to it? It will have found a new home eventually I am sure. :mrgreen:

Image
"Quite a good set"

The set 4 of the Murray Steam Navigation Co (MSNC) "locals" of Victoria illustrated above is of typical usual horrid appearance. There are also often thins, creases and toning on these when you look on the back. Our sadly departed colleague Simon Dunkerley paid over $1,000 for this very set above at auction a decade back, and told me it was 'quite a good set' and later sold it on eBay for well over $2000. I later looked at the photo, and laughed my head off and reminded him of his comment now and again. :lol:

.

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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by jaywalker »

Rod,

I had thought that the Murray Steam Navigation Co locals had been found to be "real locals"? Is there any more information about the "philatelic entrepreneurs" available? (unless you are saving the anecdote for the book mentioned on another thread)

From the 1974 Bill Hornadge "Cinderella Stamps of Australasia":
Torres Strait Settlement

The label issued above was one of a set of six (2c brown, 4c blue, 5c orange, 16c green, 24c violet and 36c carmine), all with common design showing two mountain peaks and the Union Jack which appeared on the philatelic market about 1879.

As there were at that time no settlements in the Torres Strait, which is located between Australia's Cape York Peninsula and Papua, the stamps were immediately branded bogus and have remained in this category to the present day for lack of evidence to the contrary. It has been suggested that they may have been produced by some steamship company operating between the north of Australia and Asian ports but this is pure surmise. One thing that has long puzzled Cinderella collectors is that the labels have always been scarce, which is not the usual pattern of phantoms produced for the philatelic market. Covers are unknown.

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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by jaywalker »

Had a quick look in Hornadge's "Local Stamps of Australia" - couldn't see anything on the Torres Strait Settlement stamps there - but there is about six (A5) pages on the Murray Steam Navigation Company stamps, including specific mention of "a Sydney stamp dealer Mr Glen Stephens" :lol:

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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by Rod Perry »

It is perhaps no coincidence that significant remainders of both Torres Strait Settlement and Murray Steam Navigation Co "locals" were found in Brussels (so-called "Brussels Find").

It had earlier been surmised that J.B. Moens, who had a stamp shop in Brussels as early as 1848, and was a pioneer specialist in New issue supply, was involved in the production of these items. Who better to launch "new issues" on a naive, and unsuspecting stamp collecting public in the early days of Philately than a New issue service?

The famous cover referred to above is a fake. The "local" stamp was added much later.

I know who prepared the fake; he passed away in 1970s.

When I inspected the cover, it could be clearly seen on front of envelope (and reverse side of that portion) an indentation corresponding to the "Mayne" signature which "ties" the stamp. A genuine signature of Mayne had been traced for that purpose. (In 1886 two men, John Mayne and Enoch Nickless, began a parcel delivery service in Melbourne, styled Mayne Nickless Ltd)

I bought the faker's Victoria Locals (not the cover, that was offered separately in the Estate auction), and his Boyd's Express page had multiple rubber stamp impressions of the circular and line cancellations . . . applied to the album page as tests (!), as well as to two otherwise genuine examples of the local stamp on the page.

The cover was once offered for £10,000 by P/T by a noted London auction firm, and I believe is boldly presented in the Williams' "World Rarities" volume.

The scallywag who created it would be amused.

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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by Global Administrator »

Rod Perry wrote:
I know who prepared the fake; he passed away in 1970s.

When I inspected the cover, it could be clearly seen on front of envelope (and reverse side of that portion) an indentation corresponding to the "Mayne" signature which "ties" the stamp. A genuine signature of Mayne had been traced for that purpose.
Very interesting stuff Rod, and a great chapter for "The Book". :lol: :lol:

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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by jaywalker »

Thanks for the update Rod.

(and for those not aware, Mayne Nickless is now Toll Holdings Limited - another logistics / freight company)

http://www.tollgroup.com/news/celebrating-125-years-in-business

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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by Allanswood »

And to update the update with a Philatelic theme:

As of May 2015 - Toll was bought out by Japan Post.

http://www.tollgroup.com/media-release/toll-celebrates-first ... japan-post
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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by mikeg »

I did a quick check of my 1864 & 1877 Moen's catalogs - there is no sign of either of these issues, yet the 1877 catalog lists many bogus locals, including many of S. A. Taylor's products.

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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by Rod Perry »

mikeg

Nice reference works.

My library is presently in storage. Can any SB member ascertain when Torres Strait Settlement and/or Murray Steam Navigation Co stamps were first noted in the philatelic press?

They may not have appeared by 1877?

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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by mikeg »

Here are the relevant pages from Melville's 'Phantom Philately' :D

Image

Image

He gives dates of 1872 for the Murray issue and 1879 for the Torres.

The good thing about Melville - he always gives references.

Rod - I will look in a couple other places tomorrow - it's 1am and my eyes are starting to get blurry :lol:

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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by Global Administrator »

Well done Mike .. great info. :)

The "Brussels Hoard" has a very large bunch of the scarce Echuca Railway Stamps that there is no doubt are kosher, so it might have been a real "find" Rod?

http://www.stampboards.com/images/prestigephilately/cats.php ... ionnum=180

Watson wrote a detailed piece/article on it somewhere - someone might recall?

A precis was in sale preface above -

Early this year, I received an email from a dealer friend in Belgium, Rodolphe de Maleingreau. Was there, he asked, any interest in Australia in local stamps and the like?

Perhaps I was expecting him to have a collection of Hutt River labels or similar fluff. Anyway, with exaggerated nonchalance, I opened the attachment...and nearly fell over!

I was looking at blocks of Echuca Railway stamps, Murray River Steam Navigation carrier stamps and Torres Strait Settlements “phantoms”. I had never seen anything like it.

Neither, it transpired, had anybody else.

The opportunity to bring important new finds to the market is one of the best things about running auctions.

And because public auction is the medium, all of our clients can share in the opportunity to acquire items that have never previously been recorded

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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by Rod Perry »

mikeg

Good sleuthing.

Moens is looking less like having been involved in issue of T.S.S. and M.S.N.Co (Perry yet again hangs innocent man will be the twitter outcry).

If the T.S.S. series first appeared in 1879 (?), that would explain their absence from Moens' 1877 publication.

It doesn't explain why the 1872 (?) M.S.N.Co was omitted, however.

The Echuca Railways items in the Brussels Find I confess did puzzle me, as these have not previously been under the shadow of doubt long associated with the other series'.

I remain fairly confident that the find comprises remainders from a New issue service, perhaps one specialising in less Traditional issues?

A search for a Brussels-based 19th century Locals and related subjects specialist may direct us to the original source of the find?

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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by mikeg »

Here is the information from Chapier 'Les Timbres de Fantaisie' :D

Like Melville, this dates from the 1930's.

For Murray, he really does not give any useful info:

Image

For Torres, he states that it was produced by a 'European philatelist' in 1880:

Image

Image

Although Chapier is not too generous with details, I have always found his information to be correct :D

I have never really looked these issues up before, as I do not have any examples of them.

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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by Rod Perry »

mikeg

Nice library you must have!

The two M.S.N.Co 1d shades listed, more distinct colours actually, "rouge carmin" and "vermillon rouge" are interesting.

I've not seen anything other than the second, or more what I would term rose-red?

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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by David Benson »

mikeg,

re.
I have never really looked these issues up before, as I do not have any examples of them.
now is your chance, Status has a few of them for sale tomorrow,

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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by Daniele »

Dear users,

I am glad i have found this topic.

I would add that the cover franked with 3d of M.S.N.C. appeared at first on´The Cinderella Philatelist´ 1964, vol IV, pag 71.

On 1984 ( for us..) famous Italian philatelic expert Giovanni Chiaverello wrote about it:

´´ ... claimed as the most rarest cover in the world, it is in fact a fake ( De Thuin?) , it has been added a 3d ´Murray´ to an original cover (...), the pen cancellation doesn't match the handwriting of those who have learned to write in the first half of 1800 and is laid very slowly and studiosly: you notice the effort of a Latino who wants to imitate the style of an Anglo-Saxon.

This rarity was created to be sold to the famous collector Dr. Steindler, who informed me abouit it on 1964 writing me from Chicago: The Murray stamps were issued on 1871, but the cover is signed 10 february 1869!

I also would add that the cover is franked with a 2 pence stamps, so how the Murray steam navigation would ask for an extra 3 pence?´´


This article appeared in Italian philatelic magazine.

I am collecting informations about those stamps, so i would be glad if anybody can tell me more about the so-called Bruxelles finding sold on prestige philatelic auction.

Thanks a lot and i hope my English is readable.

Daniele
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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by Rod Perry »

Daniele

The 1984 claim by Giovanni Chiaverello "This rarity was created to be sold to the famous collector Dr. Steindler" is not correct.

This fake was created by a Melbourne collector, whose estate was auctioned by P.J. Downie in Melbourne in the early 1970s.

The fake never left its creator's collection until that estate auction, where it was sold to another Melbourne collector.

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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by Daniele »

Thanks for your reply.

Chiavarello wrote that Śteindler informed him about this cover in 1964, also a photo of this cover appear on Cinderella philatelist the same year.

This information doesnt match with yours ( early 1970s ). I just try to compare different source of informations.

By the way the Steindler collection was sold by Robson Lowe in 1972 ( just after he passed away), so for sure this ˇcoverˇ appeared between 1964 and 1972.

At this point would be interesting to show the page coming from C.P. of 1964. I will try to recover it.

Daniele

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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by Rod Perry »

Daniele

My library is in storage at present, and I can't access my Robson Lowe catalogues.

Are you saying that the Śteindler catalogue in 1972 had the cover which featured in 1964 Cinderella Philatelist?

I spoke today with the buyer of the cover in the Downie sale in the 1970s (he thinks the year was 1976 - again I can't access my Downie catalogues). We both recall the price realised: AU$900.

In 1980-81 the cover was offered by Robson Lowe for sale by Private Treaty for £10,000!

Can any reader provide scan of C.P. article, and R.L. 1972 sale if cover was offered therein?

I contend that the perpetrator of this faked cover owned it from the time it was made, until the time his estate was auctioned by Downie. But I could be wrong!

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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by Daniele »

Hello Rod,

please forgive my english which can lead to some misunderstanding.

I meant that Steindler collection was sold in 1972 by Robson Lowe, but Steindler didnt own that cover, he refused to buy it because he tought it was a fake.(According to Chiavarello article)

I just meant that at those time (1972) the cover was for sure already offered in the market because Steindler already was meantioning it.

So looks like the cover was already well know outside Australia between 1964 -1972.

Daniele
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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by Daniele »

Image


Hello,
above is a photo of the cover we are talking about

Daniele

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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by Daniele »

Another point of view on this cover is offered from Mr. L. N. Williams in his article "Murray River Locals: their history"

appeared on Philatelic Magazine number 6 -7 . vol. 90

Anybody can find this article?

thanks a lot

Daniele
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Re: Australia Torres Strait Settlement local stamps info sou

Post by Daniele »

Ehy, thanks for the Murray stamp in my avatar :lol: :D

Daniele

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Re: Torres Strait Islands local stamps info wanted.

Post by Global Administrator »

Global Administrator wrote:
Only one cover is known from this series, being noted "per S.S. Kelpie" Murray River riverboat, and addressed to the Police Magistrate at Echuca Victoria, and backstamped there February 10, 1869. A 2d Victoria stamp paid the inward postage. A 3d 'Local' allegedly paying the riverboat conveyance charge is affixed and pen-cancelled.

This cover was auctioned in October 1992 by Corinphila Switzerland for 14,950 Swiss francs, or double the 7500 franc pre-sale estimate. This was well in excess of $A15,000 at the time
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Re: Torres Strait Settlement & M.S.N.Co local stamps info so

Post by mikeg »

I found a bit more info on the Torres Strait issue in the 1881 Stafford Smith & Co 'Stamp Collectors Annual' :D

Image

Image

It does not add anything new - but it is another contemporary report 8)

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Re: Torres Strait Settlement & M.S.N.Co local stamps info so

Post by Global Administrator »

Mike .. nice piece. :)

I thought I would add a sharper image of the 1869 Murray Steam Navigation Company stamps to the thread, this one a 3d Green value.

It was this value I found ~35 years ago in an envelope of spares that cost me near nothing in an USA auction of navigation related stamps and locals that had been assembled before WW2. I think there was a "used" of some kind 1d red MSNCo among it too.

My 3d was cancelled by a rhomboid of dots with ink pen. Bill Hornadge ran a story on it in 'Stamp News' at the time, and illustrated it in his 'Local Stamps of Australia' handbook or catalogue. Someone here may have a copy of that book - mine is lost!

That cancel may too have been bogus, I have no idea, but this set has always fetched good money, even 100 years back, and someone wrecking a 3d like that does not seen likely at all to me.

I got a few $100 for it as I recall, and have seen it turn up a few times since in major auctions.
Image
1869 Murray Steam Navigation Company 3d green stamp
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Re: Torres Strait Settlement & M.S.N.Co local stamps info so

Post by Global Administrator »

https://www.auspostalhistory.com/articles/1792.php

A bit more data on these above. These sites generally vanish entirely sadly, as someone chooses not to pay domain renewal etc.


I kicked myself I did not get around to buying this for $A1300 in Feb this year. Astounding piece IMHO.
Image
https://www.prestigephilately.com/cats.php?sortcode=vic&auctionnum=209&lim=20

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Re: Torres Strait Settlement & M.S.N.Co local stamps info so

Post by mikeg »

Glen - that is a very cool block :D

It is interesting to see it is comb perforated- not something you would find in your typical outback print shop :wink:

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Re: Torres Strait Settlement & M.S.N.Co local stamps info so

Post by Global Administrator »

Well whomever was in charge of the perforating machine did an appalling job. :lol: :lol:

I like this set and EVERY set of 4 I have seen was in appalling centred condition, and this one fits the bill -
Image
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Re: Torres Strait Settlement & M.S.N.Co local stamps info so

Post by dukeprince »

When was the so called, Brussels find of Torres Straits and Murray steamship Stamps.

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Re: Torres Strait Settlement & M.S.N.Co local stamps info so

Post by dukeprince »

dukeprince wrote:When was the so called, Brussels find of Torres Straits and Murray steamship Stamps.
I have been told Brussels find was around 2012/13 .

I am chasing the halfpenny black Murray S N Co stamp, does anyone have one?...john

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Re: Torres Strait Settlement & M.S.N.Co local stamps info so

Post by Global Administrator »

dukeprince wrote:
I am chasing the halfpenny black Murray S N Co stamp, does anyone have one?
Remember there is a ''HALF PENNY'' value, corrected from the rare original ''HALF PENCE'' printing.

PAGES of info on this issue in the Ringstrom and Tester "The Private Ship Letter Stamps of the World - Part 2 - Australia - Europe - South America" Book I listed up here this week -

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First two of the many pages of the Murray Steam Navigation Company Stamp issues


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Re: Torres Strait Settlement & M.S.N.Co local stamps info so

Post by dukeprince »

Global Administrator wrote:
dukeprince wrote:
I am chasing the halfpenny black Murray S N Co stamp, does anyone have one?
Remember there is a ''HALF PENNY'' value, corrected from the rare original ''HALF PENCE'' printing.

PAGES of info on this issue in the Ringstrom and Tester "The Private Ship Letter Stamps of the World - Part 2 - Australia - Europe - South America" Book I listed up here this week -
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First two of the many pages of the Murray Steam Navigation Company Stamp issues


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https://stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=82359
Thanks Glen , yes 2 versions of the halfpenny exist the HALF PENNY version is the most common and that would do me nicely .

Now lets see if there is one out there for me to purchase? , envisage A$200 or maybe a bit more so take a look Guys ,typically back of book item.

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Re: Torres Strait Settlement & M.S.N.Co local stamps info so

Post by dukeprince »

Today I have purchased the Half Penny stamp , any leads on the Half Pence version would be appreciated, John

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Re: Torres Strait Settlement & M.S.N.Co local stamps info so

Post by Global Administrator »

dukeprince wrote:
Today I have purchased the Half Penny stamp, any leads on the Half Pence version would be appreciated, John
Good luck with finding the HALF PENCE. I have only seen a few, in 40 years of being VERY interested in this interesting stamp issue from the River Murray Steam Navigation Co.

That comedian David Elsmore lists it in his hilarious alleged "catalogue" at $100 - HALF the price of the far more common HALF PENNY. These kind of Froot Loop prices are of course the time honoured code for Dave not owning ANY of them.

I suspect he'd buy the HALF PENCE (real world value about $1000) for $100 in a heartbeat, and the cover for $400 - auction price easily 10 times that, even today.

His site is quite useful in many areas but sadly descends into farce in these areas Dave does not own.
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Re: Torres Strait Settlement & M.S.N.Co local stamps info so

Post by Rod Perry »

Of the Half Pence, Glen, if you've seen "a few", you've seen three times as many as I.

In the 1970s, sitting in a Robson Lowe London auction room, the only example of a Half Pence I've seen, was offered.

I let it go; there were far more necessary Victoria items I had to have being offered later in the auction.

I agree Dave is a tad light on with some of his valuations: I owned the 1d Die proof, which sold for SF4400+buyers (in 1987), and the faked 3d cover (never mine) sold for £10000 c1980.

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Re: Torres Strait Settlement & M.S.N.Co local stamps info so

Post by Global Administrator »

Rod, those Elsmore prices are on the Village Idiot level of stupidity.

The cover as reported above sold for near 15,000 Swiss francs, ex the Jacques Grasset/Emile Antonini collection, which was sold by Corinphila Switzerland in October 1992 for 13'000 CHF plus all the fees. Elsmore in his huge wisdom rates it as $400, as of course he does not own it, or else it would be $40,000. :roll:

He rates the HALF PENCE at $100, so that says it all!

Not sure how many I have seen - someone had a set 5 in fairly recent years I bid on, but it went over my pensioner budget! Do recall a couple of others over the decades but agree they are DARN scarce. Unless your name is Elsmore. :)

That website above had examples but like so many of these short sighted hillbilly sites they assemble a ton of superb data then one day choose not to pay the $20 a year to renew the domain name, and it all vanishes. :roll: :roll: :roll:

The normal HALF PENNY is about, as can be seen below.

These local stamps are sometimes accompanied by serious Certs - RPS and BPA etc.

The highest price I recorded at public Auction was $A3,725 invoice for the set below from Prestige, Auction 114.
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1869 Murray Steam Navigation Company Stamp issue invoiced $A3725.
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Re: Torres Strait Settlement & M.S.N.Co local stamps info so

Post by Global Administrator »

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As an example of how absolutely appalling these 1869 Murray Steam Navigation Company Stamp issue can be in appearance, this was the set from the ''Cost no object'' Besançon collection sale recently conducted by Corinphila.
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Re: Torres Strait Islands local stamps info wanted.

Post by Global Administrator »

Global Administrator wrote:
Rod Perry wrote:"A bit murky" sounds almost complimentary, Glen.

Downright bogus, created by the same philatelic "entrepreneurs" who created the equally bogus Murray Steam Navigation Co (MSNC) "locals" of Victoria. (also part of the Brussels find)

The supposed cover bearing a "tied" by signature MSNC stamp?

Famous that may be, but it's also bogus.

Rod
I personally had always liked the MSNC, but spoke at length with Tony Presgrave at a recent show where he had a display on Murray River stamps, and he has researched these, and also does not think the story stacks up with owner of the company and alleged user of the cover, as laid out by Allan Levy seller of the cover below. I also asked Geoff Kellow his thoughts, and as you will know he is not too keen on them either. :lol:

In 1981 I purchased via a USA auction, in a cheap collection of navigation related locals, the only 2 'used' copies reported off cover. These were the 1d and 3d values, and were cancelled by a rhombus of pen dots.

The used 3d value is illustrated in Bill Hornadge's 'Local Stamps Of Australia' handbook. I sold it for a VERY handsome sum that year, and it has appeared in several major actions since, always getting hefty prices. The "cancel" May have been done by a bored kid with a pen and ink - who really knows, but it cost me basically zero!

Only one cover is known from this series, being noted "per S.S. Kelpie" Murray River riverboat, and addressed to the Police Magistrate at Echuca Victoria, and backstamped there February 10, 1869. A 2d Victoria stamp paid the inward postage. A 3d 'Local' allegedly paying the riverboat conveyance charge is affixed and pen-cancelled.

This cover was auctioned in October 1992 by Corinphila Switzerland for 14,950 Swiss francs, or double the 7500 franc pre-sale estimate. This was well in excess of $A15,000 at the time, and sadly I can't source an image of that - maybe someone else can?

This famous "per S.S. Kelpie" 3d Murray River Steam Navigation Company stamp is being auctioned in May by Corinphila in Switzerland.

They are not organised enough yet to have their catalogue listed on the web yet - someone will update this with estimate when they do, I have no doubt.

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Murray Steam Navigation Company stamp "Halfpence" new 3rd

Post by stampchi »

A new discovery! A "HALFPENCE" error of the Murray Steam Navigation Company. This is the 3rd stamp known. This particular stamp has been cut in 2 and clumsily stuck back together again with a hinge. It was purchased from France among a lot of revenue stamps. It will be offered by Phoenix in one of their future auctions.

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Re: Torres Strait Settlement & Murray Steam Nav. Co local st

Post by Global Administrator »

This breathless announcement has the hallmark of the vendor I'd guess. :roll:

Even more reason to abide by this -
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Re: Torres Strait Islands local stamps info wanted.

Post by muruk »

Global Administrator wrote:
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I believe I have located the mountains depicted on these stamps:
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They are Twin Peaks on Tioman Island in what is now Malaysia, and was part of Straits Settlements. It is not far from Singapore.

The suggestion that the stamps were for mail across Torres Strait appears to be wrong.

The other suggestion, that they were for mail between Singapore (Strait Settlement) and a place called Torres (possibly Torres Strait) is more credible.

The layout of the wording on the stamp also suggests this. There appear to be two separate notations: * Strait Settlement * and * Torres *. Why would Torres be below Strait Settlement if the intended message was Torres Strait Settlement?

Neither Australia, nor British New Guinea used decimal currency at the time these stamps were supposedly issued (1870?). Straits Settlements did.

Also, the flag is not the Union Jack, as most descriptions claim. It more closely resembles the flag of Straits Settlements (which includes the Union Flag in the upper hoist).

(Just a technicality, but the flag of the UK is the Union Flag. It becomes the Union Jack when it is hoisted aboard a vessel.)
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Re: Torres Strait Settlement & Murray Steam Nav. Co local st

Post by Global Administrator »

Interesting observation Muruk. :)

Here are some better images from ''The Brussels Find'' offered by Prestige/mossgreen/abacus


QUEENSLAND: c.1870 (?) Torres Strait Settlement 4c to 36c complete (missing the 2c brown), the 4c is marginal, the 16c & 36c have one straight edge, unused. Very scarce "phantom" issue. ÞÞThe Torres Strait labels offered here are all part of the "Brussells Find": see Lots 415 to 427 under Victoria. Most of these labels were stuck fast in a stiff paper "pancake". Some had been damaged as a result of a misguided attempt to separate them: they have been discarded. As a result of being soaked, most of the labels now have no gum. This & the next lot are the only "sets" of singles. Remarkably, not a single example of the 2c brown was included in the find. (Qty 5)

https://www.prestigephilately.com/cats.php?auctionnum=180&sortcode=cind

2013 Auction - #180

Oddly, none of these lots of the singles in blocks appeared to get a bid. Weird. For unique pieces, on modest estimates. The 2 sets 5 at $500 est were LOW estimates in my view.

https://www.prestigephilately.com/priceslist.php?auctionnum=180

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Torres Strait Settlement - Australia - QUEENSLAND: 24c violet large-part sheetlet of 15 with straight edges at the top & the base, unused. [Of the 24c, one single plus a block of 10 are yet to be offered] Est $750.
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Re: Torres Strait Islands local stamps info wanted.

Post by dukeprince »

muruk wrote:
Global Administrator wrote:
Image
I believe I have located the mountains depicted on these stamps:
Image
They are Twin Peaks on Tioman Island in what is now Malaysia, and was part of Straits Settlements. It is not far from Singapore.

The suggestion that the stamps were for mail across Torres Strait appears to be wrong.

The other suggestion, that they were for mail between Singapore (Strait Settlement) and a place called Torres (possibly Torres Strait) is more credible.

The layout of the wording on the stamp also suggests this. There appear to be two separate notations: * Strait Settlement * and * Torres *. Why would Torres be below Strait Settlement if the intended message was Torres Strait Settlement?

Neither Australia, nor British New Guinea used decimal currency at the time these stamps were supposedly issued (1870?). Straits Settlements did.

Also, the flag is not the Union Jack, as most descriptions claim. It more closely resembles the flag of Straits Settlements (which includes the Union Flag in the upper hoist).

(Just a technicality, but the flag of the UK is the Union Flag. It becomes the Union Jack when it is hoisted aboard a vessel.)
I believe you are onto something here, hopefully others will be open to further exploration on these stamps.

Sets of so called bogus stamps should never achieve the prices that these get when auctioned and after the so called Brussels find the 2c is the key stamp and possibly worth as much as the others combined.

A wonderful chance for new information to come out.

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Re: Torres Strait Settlement & Murray Steam Nav. Co local st

Post by satsuma »

We are deep into the discussion about the Straits Settlement Torres issue and the only image of the 2d value is a black and white engraving of nearly 150 years ago.

I note the comment that none were in the Brussels find but, has anyone seen one? Can anyone provide a scan?

One would think that whether the series was a new issue scam or saw actual use somewhere the lowest value would not be the hardest to source.

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