Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wanted

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Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wanted

Post by frontfloater »

I recently bought this interesting item, which purports to be a Woodblock 1d error of colour in a se-tenant pair. I intend to send it to the RPS for certification, unless anyone recognises it as a well-known forgery. I would welcome any opinions from specialists in COGH.

Image

Image

I realise that the rarity of genuine ones means that the odds are not in my favour. But IF it is correct, it would be a major find.

Alan Stevenson's famous 1950 book lists an error pair as the third rarest COGH item, after (1) the unique Woodblock tete-beche pair and (2) mint Woodblock errors of colour ; and he quotes another specialist as saying that only 4 such 1d blue pairs were known at that time.

I'm only a newbie on the forum, so please go easy on me if I have made any unintentional errors in this post.

BOB

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by David Benson »

Sending it for a certificate is money well spent,

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Allanswood »

Doesn't look like laid paper to me.

Can you do a bigger scan as the front is breaking up into a catalogue printed cutout to my eyes.
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by frontfloater »

The stamp will arrive tomorrow, and I'll take a hi-res photo then. These are just the photos from Ebay. The back appears to have album page residue, perhaps from being glued down at some time.

If it was removed from a printed catalogue, it wouldn't seem to make sense to damage the pair stamp in this way - surely a scammer would want it to look as good as possible ... ?

The seller offered me a full refund if the certificate comes back saying it's a fake, so it was worth a risk.

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Global Administrator »

frontfloater wrote:I recently bought this interesting item, which purports to be a Woodblock 1d error of colour in a se-tenant pair.
Image
Image
Here is a genuine copy, with a genuine cancel, on normal genuine paper.

What was the question again re your ugly scrap of waste paper?

Love to know the astute and cunning purchase price. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Another Ebay "BAHHRGIINN" indeed. You guys crack me up.

Even on ebay I cannot believe anyone fell for it.

RPS Cert indeed. They must laugh their heads off receiving waste paper like this, and getting paid to return it noted as being waste paper.
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by frontfloater »

If Mr Benson says it's worth sending for certification, I respect his opinion a great deal more than yours.

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by David Benson »

Thanks,

When you receive it, scan at 600dpi., both sides.



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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by capetriangle »

frontfloater

I apologize for my abysmal photographic skills, a hand held digital camera shot from an auction catalogue.
Image
What you have, I believe, is a brutalized/savaged illustration of of the above. The illustration of the pair appears in the "Royal" book which is on fairly thick high quality wove paper. (Congratulations to Allanswood for noticing that it was not on laid paper.) I am as confident about this opinion as I am about the fake Plate 77 cover.

So what you have is a cut-out from the "Royal" book illustrations.
From another thread "I remember being able to buy sections from the "Royal" book, they were sold by Harris Publications in the 1960s and I believe my father bought the Australasia, Africa and the Asia sections for £5 each, together with a complete set of the photographs from the whole book."
So at least a copy of the book was not sacrificed!

Now the auction catalogue that my poor digital photograph was taken from was Spink London 17 May 2001, "Stamps and Covers from the Royal Philatelic Collection." Lot no. 127, realized £65,000.

The item entered the collection of Dr. James Foght which was auctioned by Spink in London on 23 September 2004. It was lot no. 626.

The purchaser was Her Majesty the Queen, who bought the pair back, and I saw it at the Royal Philatelic Society London in September 2007 of the Queen's British Africa Collection.

As Glen has posted:
Love to know the astute and cunning purchase price. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I hope you are able to obtain a refund without going to the expense of obtaining the Royal certificate.

I am sorry to be the bearer of sad news.

Kindest regards

Richard Debney

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by frontfloater »

Thanks, Richard, for your informative and courteous reply. It certainly does look like the same item. That would also explain the shreds of text on the back, which I initially thought were from being stuck onto an album page ; it now appears that they may simply be the remnants of text on the opposite side of the catalogue page, which someone tried to scrape off.

It also appears that the same person added an extra black blob of "cancellation" on the S of POSTAGE, perhaps to make it appear less like the original illustration.

I said clearly at the outset, it PURPORTS to be an error pair ; and that the odds were not in its favour ; and that I had the offer of a full refund if not correct. In those circumstances, the comment "I cannot believe anyone fell for it" Sheriff's post is stupid as well as rude. I had little to lose, other than perhaps the £40 cost of a RPS refusal certificate, and potentially lots to gain. What's life without an occasional risk ...?
Last edited by frontfloater on 14 Aug 2017 05:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Machaggis52 »

Richard, the postmark on the pair you show, does not seem to match that on the part pair in the OP.
With kind regards, Jim

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Global Administrator »

Machaggis52 wrote:Richard, the postmark on the pair you show, does not seem to match that on the part pair in the OP.
Are you related genetically to frontfloater in any way? It must be Ground Hog Day!

He can't see it is a crude low rez offset cut out from a book, that has been in a washing machine, and then left out on the M1 for a week, and you can't see the cancels match exactly. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Global Administrator »

frontfloater wrote:I had little to lose, other than perhaps the £40 cost of a RPS refusal certificate
No-one with an IQ above double digits would imagine that absurd fuzzy piece of waste paper was genuine. Not even most ebay buyers. I've printed 10 more watching TV .. yours for a quid each, or take them all for a fiver. Post FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Why not donate the £40 to the Red Cross or somewhere that will do some good for others less fortunate, as thanks for what we have MOST certainly saved you today?

Methinks the chances of us seeing a receipt from the likes of you for that, are as likely as seeing Trump re-elected!


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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by gavin-h »

frontfloater wrote:... the comment "I cannot believe anyone fell for it" Sheriff's post is stupid as well as rude. I had little to lose, other than perhaps the £40 cost of a RPS refusal certificate, and potentially lots to gain. What's life without an occasional risk ...?
No, it's an astute comment from someone who's seen it all before, albeit maybe in a slightly bluff Aussie manner. :idea:

And I agree with him 100%. :!:

If you want an occasional risk and have 40 quid to spare, I'll gladly catch the Number 11 bus into Blackpool and toss you a coin for it. :wink:
frontfloater wrote:If it was removed from a printed catalogue, it wouldn't seem to make sense to damage the pair stamp in this way - surely a scammer would want it to look as good as possible ... ?

No, a scammer would want to disguise the fact that it was an obvious cutout from a book and rough it up enough to gouge even a couple of percent of the 16 grand a real one would be worth.

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Global Administrator »

frontfloater wrote:If Mr Benson says it's worth sending for certification, I respect his opinion a great deal more than yours.
Your call of course on whose views to listen to. 8)

I've bought and sold a genuine 1d Woodblock error of colour, so what would a mere experienced dealer know of such things, compared to the eternal wisdom of an Rolled Gold ebay Bargaaaain Hunter. :roll:

"Mr Benson" was suggesting YOU spend the 40 quid. Not him. Think about it. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Buy your laughable ebay bargeeen gem for 50 of 100 quid or whatever, and spend another 40 quid getting told by RPSL it is a beaten up scrap of cutout from an old book - who needs to give advice to such a towering stamp intellect? :mrgreen:

I do hope we see that donation to Red Cross receipt. Your learning curve is very steep, and at least the 40 quid we just saved you is worth helping others less endowed with money to squander on such rags.

My experience is folks like you never donate in such cases. Sad really.

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by capetriangle »

Machaggis52 wrote:Richard, the postmark on the pair you show, does not seem to match that on the part pair in the OP.
I am sorry, I think it matches very well with the amendment over the S of POSTAGE.

Kindest regards

Richard

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Post by Allanswood »

Thanks for the image Richard, I hadn't gone back far enough in my archives to find it.

It's also obvious on the rear of the cutout that the words are readable - therefore not the result of peeling the stamp off an album page as that would result in mirrored lettering.

As far as the postmark not being a 'perfect' match for the original (McHaggis52), um... well.... there aren't 2 of such a rarity of stamp with a postmark in the same place with the same weight of cancel! Taking a photograph and printing the image in a book will cause some differences. :D
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Machaggis52 »

Global Administrator wrote:
Machaggis52 wrote:Richard, the postmark on the pair you show, does not seem to match that on the part pair in the OP.
Are you related genetically to frontfloater in any way? It must be Ground Hog Day!

He can't see it is a crude low rez offset cut out from a book, that has been in a washing machine, and then left out on the M1 for a week, and you can't see the cancels match exactly. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I think you need to get your reading glasses checked. There are at least half a dozen points where the cancels don't match exactly.
With kind regards, Jim

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Global Administrator »

I know whose glasses need to be checked.

Just a rough repro of the genuine pair, from some old magazine, that some printer has hand-touched up the line work on the cancel with a black pen.

If you can't see these are identical cancels, on identical stamps you really need a new hobby. :lol: :lol:

Don't ever go into stamp dealing tho, is my sincere suggestion, if you can't match these 2. :shock:
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Allanswood »

IF you can't see that the stamp on the left is a tricked up mangled mess of a cutout of the real pair (1 of only a very few known) on the right then perhaps it's you that needs to clean his glasses!

Image

There cannot be 2 of these rarest of stamps with that cancel, in that place, at that angle etc etc.

(I found my archive image)

Glen beat me to the punch line. :D
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Global Administrator »

Your graphics as usual are far superior than mine Greg, but again I am gobsmacked how so many folks when clearly told something by experts is so, scream and holler and argue that it is not so. :roll: :roll: :roll:

When as in this case, it is plainly evident to a Blind Nun at midnight, they were off with the Pixies.

Weirder still, our stroppy member frontfloater paid good money for this totally worthless piece of paper, my cat can tell from the photos was a dud, was told it was a crude repro, gave me a broadside several times for daring to suggest that, emailed me the same, and said he was taking David Benson's also totally absurd advice to continue sending it in with 40 quid for a Royal Cert, despite what I had told him.

Naturally these intellectual geniuses NEVER donate the £40 to Charity that EXPERT advice here has saved them from squandering. Very sad people. Ebay is welcome to them.

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by A Helmich »

Image

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1861-QV-Cape-of-Good-Hope-SG14-4d ... 2706772628

eBay item number: 182706772628


I would be worried about the "No returns Accepted" policy.
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Global Administrator »

700 QUID "Buy It Now" from ebay stamp spiv "zafiracar" for that absurd piece of waste paper from an old article on 'scarce stamps'?

I'll take back the Bunny Of The Month Award to "frontfloater", and have amended it to the -

"Ebay Bunny Of The YEAR"


Seriously, deliberately buying that joke is total stupidity totally beyond belief even for 7 quid - even for an ebay buyer. But SEVEN HUNDRED QUID??!! What kind of hallucinogenic drugs is he on???

Genius stamp expert "frontfloater" has emailed me saying how mean we were to him, along with leaving several other messages here along those lines, that were edited as being off topic.

Drop kick - we just saved him from a £700 DISASTER and a further £40 getting it Expertised by the RPSL as "a damaged and worthless cut out from a stamp magazine, you total goose".

He needs to donate £300 to Charity to thank us here for saving himself from himself. He is still £440 ahead that way.

"frontfloater" is the type of person in life who generally learns nothing from good FREE advice, as they are too busy blaming their stupid decisions on "someone else" but just in case he wises up, he needs to FIRST do some researcch on ebay stamp spiv "zafiracar" and his ilk. :idea: :idea:

The MINUTE you see these con-men mixing up selling kosher material in the normal fashion, and then nonsense like the Woodblock and the Africa fiscals as "PRIVATE AUCTIONS" you know he has something serious to hide. We have posted that 1000 times here, but many ebay buyers have an IQ in low single digits, so never get it, as they read nothing. :roll: :roll: :roll:

You then also look at the other world shattering offerings from ebay stamp spiv "zafiracar" and you see these African stamps with clearly obvious fiscal cancels being offered with no mention of that, at Bunny Bait high prices, not the small sums they really trade for fiscally used in the REAL world of REAL dealers.
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by emason »

Image
Putting aside the cancellation, the stamps themselves appear to be different.
1. The 'cutout' stamp is poorly defined and appears to be a double print or a crude forgery.
2. There is a horizontal line at the top of the 'cutout' stamp which is missing from the genuine stamp.
3. The 'cutout' is lacking the lower frame extension of the genuine (upper) stamp.
4. The lettering is much larger on the 'cutout' compared with the genuine.

Just an observation.
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Post by capetriangle »

Arthur

Congratulations on your computer/ebay skills for finding out the purchase price of the illustration, a price that both Glen and I were itching to know!

In the 2001 auction, Spink had an estimate of £18,000 - £20,000 on the real piece. My bid was £28,000 on the book which was easily surpassed, however it represented all the spare cash I had at that time. (times were flush then!)

This post was started before Glen's post above but I had to have a tire replaced on my car in the interim.

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Post by capetriangle »

emason

Bill, an interesting observation.

I have the real illustration somewhere framed in the house but, of course, cannot put my hands on it when it would be helpful.

If any member has a "Royal" book and could perhaps post?

Kindest regards

Richard

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by MarkoSK »

Of course they are same.

All "differences" are result of":
1) another source of photo/scan
2) poor print
3) fluid where it was washed for "I am very old with no text on back" work

Never send items like this to RPSL! There work old people, they can die easily!

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Post by Allanswood »

capetriangle wrote:emason

Bill, an interesting observation.

I have the real illustration somewhere framed in the house but, of course, cannot put my hands on it when it would be helpful.

If any member has a "Royal" book and could perhaps post?

Kindest regards

Richard

Richard, the composite image I posted above was of the actual image taken from the auction website. It's not your distorted photo image.
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Post by capetriangle »

Allanswood wrote:
capetriangle wrote:emason

Bill, an interesting observation.

I have the real illustration somewhere framed in the house but, of course, cannot put my hands on it when it would be helpful.

If any member has a "Royal" book and could perhaps post?

Kindest regards

Richard

Richard, the composite image I posted above was of the actual image taken from the auction website. It's not your distorted photo image.
Greg, I absolutely realize that. Once again I admire the computer skills necessary, as the Spink website is notoriously difficult to navigate. I used to swear at it at least once or twice a week when I worked at their New York office.

What I would like to find is the illustration which appears in the "Royal" book, irritating as there are least two examples somewhere in my house, one in the Africa section of the "Royal" book and one framed.

Kindest regards

Richard

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Allanswood »

Richard, I got the details off the Christies website for the Spink 1274 (2001) sale. The Spink website only seems to keep accessible catalogues for current sales only and then reverts to a convoluted section that needs to be searched by description.

I haven't logged in for a while to the site, but losing the PDF downloads is annoying for doing any historical research. I need to remember to visit and download each time a new auction is announced.

The price on the sold lot is listed as £74,750.00 :shock:

I have just 2 images of the blue colour error pairs, this one and Stephenson's image from his book.

Oddly searching the net for colour error pairs does not return the results I would expect and image searching gives no results that I can find yet for these stamps.


The item we're looking at here having older roman typeface on the back and being in colour and on that grade of paper would mean (to me) either a book or catalogue printed about these stamps, but not perhaps an auction catalogue cut out. Likely, to me, not the Royal Collection volume either. Aren't their images printed on blank backed pages?
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by capetriangle »

Allanswood wrote:
The price on the sold lot is listed as £74,750.00 :shock:

I have just 2 images of the blue colour error pairs, this one and Stephenson's image from his book.

Oddly searching the net for colour error pairs does not return the results I would expect and image searching gives no results that I can find yet for these stamps.


The item we're looking at here having older roman typeface on the back and being in colour and on that grade of paper would mean (to me) either a book or catalogue printed about these stamps, but not perhaps an auction catalogue cut out. Likely, to me, not the Royal Collection volume either. Aren't their images printed on blank backed pages?
Greg

£74,750 would include the buyer's premium. (15%)

The other two pairs bearing a 1d error would be the one in the "Eastern" collection, Harmers of New York, October 16-18, 1979 lot 970 realized $57,500 + 10% (buyer's premium) and, of course, Dale-Lichtenstein, Harmers of New York, November 25-26, 1989 (in Washington D.C.) lot 336 realized $30,000 + 10% (buyer's premium).

Our £700 illustration here is certainly not an auction catalogue cut-out and I am still looking for my "Royal" Africa book.

Kindest regards

Richard

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Global Administrator »

It might have been taken from one of a 1000 books or articles or postcards etc, over the past century on "very rare old stamps" etc

If frontfloater saves his pennies real hard, he might be able to buy even more from the same source. :lol: :lol:

ebay stamp spiv zafiracarmight give him a bulk discount? 700 QUID "Buy It Now" is a pretty good return for each one snipped out, and "aged".

There is a Western Australia Swan with Inverted Centre. And that cool 1d Black with corner letters "VR". And an ugly stamp from British Guiana - he can get a Hagner page full of them.

ONLY on ebay - NO IQ tests needed from buyers. Just a fat PayPal account and dollops of GREED. :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by capetriangle »

All concerned

Well I have just found my "Royal" Africa book, essentially hidden in plain sight for the last eleven years, wrapped up in green bubble wrap.
Image
It was found at the lower-right of the bookcase (from the Messiest stamp room thread).

There is nothing printed on the back of the illustration, so it certainly looks like our £700 illustration (or rather frontfloater's £700 illustration) is not the actual illustration from the book but it is still unquestionably based upon it.

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by capetriangle »

Allanswood

Now in the daylight in New York, an image of the illustration as it appears in the "Royal" Africa volume, again a hand-held digital camera shot.
Image
Now the "Eastern" and Dale-Lichtenstein multiples, also hand-held camera shots. I apologize for the quality of the digital photos but they were the best I could manage.
Image
Image
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Global Administrator »

Richard, stamp shonks like ebay stamp spiv zafiracar will not be cutting up the Royal Collection book. Could be from 100 other sources, as posted already. There were lots of cigarette cards sets on "rare stamps", on coarse thin card, and peeling one down the centre would deliver our "ebay RAREETEEE" I feel sure.

Cheap poorly printed dotted low rez original source. How ANYONE bid more than a few quid on that junk is on the great ebay mysteries.
Global Administrator wrote:It might have been taken from one of a 1000 books or articles or postcards etc, over the past century on "very rare old stamps" etc

If frontfloater saves his pennies real hard, he might be able to buy even more from the same source. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by capetriangle »

Glen

I did point out before that the plates were available separately, however I do not now believe that our £700 illustration is from that source.

I once in the past encountered a former colleague of mine who was taking over the responsibility from me for Stanley Gibbons Auctions in New York in 1980 who had a cut-out (a horizontal strip of five) from the Lord Buccleuch block of 38 of the Great Britain 1840 2d from the Royal Collection, in a hawid mount on a black stockcard. (as if it were genuine)

He wanted to know if I and a former director of Stanley Gibbons Ltd. (visiting the New York office at the time) thought it was good (and presumably what it was worth). I brought out our copy of the "Royal" book and we were both in stitches laughing at the mistake (the director and I were in a separate room). What made it irritating was that he was being paid $10,000 a year more than me at the time, I was being replaced by a relative idiot. He wasn't even tipped off by the lack of a watermark and gum.

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Global Administrator »

Richard,

How come it WAS in the Royal Collection and then needed to be bought back?
capetriangle wrote:
Now the auction catalogue that my poor digital photograph was taken from was Spink London 17 May 2001, "Stamps and Covers from the Royal Philatelic Collection." Lot no. 127, realized £65,000.

The item entered the collection of Dr. James Foght which was auctioned by Spink in London on 23 September 2004. It was lot no. 626.

The purchaser was Her Majesty the Queen, who bought the pair back, and I saw it at the Royal Philatelic Society London in September 2007 of the Queen's British Africa Collection.

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by capetriangle »

Glen

The Spink sale of 17 May 2001 was of "duplicates and unnecessary material" selected by the former curator Charles W. Goodwyn in order to, I believe, finance the purchase of new items, especially the 1840 1d Black block of ten on F.D.C? (From Stanley Gibbons for £250,000, if memory serves.)

The selection of the greatest multiple of the Cape 1d error of color to sell was simply a mistake and the Queen was lucky to have the opportunity to rectify the mistake within the relatively short period of less than four years. I forget whether Mr. Goodwyn was still the curator or whether Michael Sefi, the current curator, had taken over at the time of the Foght sale?

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Global Administrator »

Thank Richard ... what a strange thing to sell off in the first place!

They have ENDLESS full sheets of valuable things they could snip off a corner block of.

So only 3 pairs of these exist?
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by capetriangle »

Global Administrator wrote:Thank Richard ... what a strange thing to sell off in the first place!

They have ENDLESS full sheets of valuable things they could snip off a corner block of.

So only 3 pairs of these exist?
No, actually four pairs are recorded, the only one not shown by me in the post above is illustrated in the Stevenson textbook.

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by capetriangle »

And here it is:
Image
Once again a hand-held digital camera shot. (I appear to be getting better at this.)

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Global Administrator »

Nice shots Richard. :)

Our clueless member "frontfloater" who cheerfully and greedily paid £700 for this ugly rag on left on FeeBay, peeled off an old sale catalogue, or a "Rare Stamps" trading card etc (the real pair resides in the Royal Collection!) got a full refund it seems from seller, but still left neutral feedback for that seller.

Charity did not benefit one cent from the donation that I suggested he made, as we managed here to save himself from his ebay total stupidity and greed. All we got were gobfulls of abuse, for saving him the £700 for his "Ebay BARGEEEEN". Happily paying £700 quid for this is totally insane. The wonderful world of Ebay Bunnies. :roll: :roll:

I wrote about this Bunny madness in the next "Stamp News" magazine -

https://www.glenstephens.com//snoctober17.html
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by acutipuerilis »

Hello. I'm not a blind nun. And that's not just because I'm not a nun. I am, however, a taxonomist, which means I spend a lot of time examining minute differences and similarities. And there's no way these are the same stamp.

They're superficially very similar, granted, but that's largely because the same postmark stamp has been applied in almost the same place, probably at the same time. Given how few of these sheets must have been distributed, I'm guessing that's not as unlikely as it might seem.

Let's start with the stamp itself: as emason said, they're not the same. The known pair has a guide line vertically from the bottom left, and obliquely at upper right. The eBay thing has a horizontal one along the top. The lettering is dramatically different, and so are a lot of the other design details if you look at them closely. It also appears to be a kiss print or double impression, as said above. They really are not the same at all.

Am I right in thinking that each die was carved separately? If so, these differences would be expected, I guess. I don't know this area well enough to say whether the eBay pair is a forgery, but it's certainly not a photocopy of the genuine pair.

Now, the cancellation. This is also different in the detail, and in its position. Compare the upper left corner, relative to the inner frame lines: the genuine one is lower. The same is true where the bars cross the gutter between the two stamps (clearest on the upper right). There are spectacular differences in the inking of the 'H', and also in the details of the lines to the left of it (and everywhere else, for that matter). The same goes for the 'O'.

In some places the inking is heavier on the known pair, and sometimes on the eBay pair. It's not a result of bleaching, or wear, because the blobs making up the lines do not correspond. In some places, the line is slightly kinked in one, but not the other. In short, these cancellations are from the same canceller, but they're not the same strike.

I have no idea whether it's a cunning forgery based on the known pair, or a genuine pair cancelled by the hand of the same clerk in his office, getting repetitive strain injury from making the same movement time after time... but it is clearly not the same pair.

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Allanswood »

Good grief. It is absolutely impossible that this is a genuine pair!

You are comparing a modern day, colour printed image based on most likely a copy of a copy of a photograph that has been cut out of a catalogue or magazine article that has highlighted this exact pair because there are only 4 pairs in existence.

Me, I'm thinking 1960's to 80's stamp magazine article cutout.

Naturally there will be heavier inking, distorted imagery and the like. Take a look at any historical image of the 1c British Guiana Magenta and you see the same thing!

When I zoom in on the fake, I can see the 4 colour patterns of the modern print press and just look at the halo edge where the paper has been cut/torn.
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by acutipuerilis »

Allanswood wrote:Good grief. It is absolutely impossible that this is a genuine pair!

You are comparing a modern day, colour printed image based on most likely a copy of a copy of a photograph that has been cut out of a catalogue or magazine article that has highlighted this exact pair because there are only 4 pairs in existence.

Me, I'm thinking 1960's to 80's stamp magazine article cutout.

Naturally there will be heavier inking, distorted imagery and the like. Take a look at any historical image of the 1c British Guiana Magenta and you see the same thing!

When I zoom in on the fake, I can see the 4 colour patterns of the modern print press and just look at the halo edge where the paper has been cut/torn.
As stated pretty clearly, I am NOT saying this is genuine.

Whatever it is, though, the differences between the two are also not just random distortions due to reproduction errors: they are systematic differences in the relative positions of stamp and cancellation, and in many, many details of the stamp and postmark.

I have no axe to grind here, but the differences are so clear-cut that I couldn't let the flawed assessment stand unchallenged. I've shown it to my wife, too, and she rapidly came to exactly the same conclusion. Can you honestly not see that these are not the same?

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Global Administrator »

acutipuerilis wrote:Hello. I'm not a blind nun. And there's no way these are the same stamp.
Image
I really can see how ebay thrives -- we have SEVERAL esteemed members making this same loopy comment. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

My STRONG advice - NEVER take up a career in stamp dealing!
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by acutipuerilis »

Another difference is that the gap between the two stamps is narrower in the genuine/known pair. Blow them up, and measure it relative to a fixed design element, such as the length of the upper edge, or the width of the name tablet. They are significantly different.

I may not be a stamp dealer, but I'm at the top of a career that relies on accurate and detailed observation. Not saying I'm infallible, though, and it's your choice as to whether to actually look carefully at what I'm saying.

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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Global Administrator »

My grandmother used to say -
"Common sense is not NEARLY as common as many imagine"
Image.Image
THIS above is the same image the ebay spiv loaded up on his ebay listing, and our dopey ebayer spent his £700 based upon seeing, and David Benson (an FIP International Stamp Judge for goodness sakes!) urged him to send along with £50, to the RPS for a Certificate!

EVEN the Blind Nun above can see from this reverse scan alone, even if the appaling front stippled print, off a mass produced medium did not tip you off, it is simply peeled off from a trading card or something like that - the original printed writing wording on the back of coarse cardboard, is still partly evident to all except to BLIND NUNS, ebay Bunnies and FIP Judges! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Don't you people SEE the remains of all those all those serified black letters printed direct onto the back, being from the other side of the "Rare Stamp" card etc ???????????????

They are clearly in POSITIVE orientiation .. if they were offset after being lightly affixed to something, they'd be mirror image NEGATIVE. The 2 letter "t" lower left are clear as a bell. Durrrhhhh.

Never MIND that the genuine Woodblock pair is in the Queen's collection, and it cost her £75,000 to buy it in the past decade. Some of you folks crack me up.
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Allanswood »

acutipuerilis wrote:Another difference is that the gap between the two stamps is narrower in the genuine/known pair. Blow them up, and measure it relative to a fixed design element, such as the length of the upper edge, or the width of the name tablet. They are significantly different.

I may not be a stamp dealer, but I'm at the top of a career that relies on accurate and detailed observation. Not saying I'm infallible, though, and it's your choice as to whether to actually look carefully at what I'm saying.
And there you have your answer!

The left CANNOT be genuine. There was only one wrong position on early printings that was later corrected and the gaps MUST be the same if genuine.

Here's the easy scenario-

It's a magazine/souvenir rarities card/catalogue cutout.

It's mangled, discoloured and torn at the bottom.

It's printed with a 4 colour press and not a single pass using blue only and the result is very fuzzy in the image provided by the seller.

It's meant to be an image of the exact stamp and likely years ago there was no good quality image to be had.

It's been touched up with a helping hand on the cancel.


I'm glad your observant, so you will have already noticed that the fake is actually larger by about 3mm in width than the genuine beside it and so you're seeing a wider gap between the stereos.
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by Global Administrator »

Allanswood wrote: I'm glad your observant, so you will have already noticed that the fake is actually larger by about 3mm in width than the genuine beside it and so you're seeing a wider gap between the stereos.
HEY -- he is the TOP of his "accurate observation" Career Tree he modestly assures us. The observation skills of the LOWER branches of that tree would be quite scary!
acutipuerilis wrote: I'm at the top of a career that relies on accurate and detailed observation.
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Re: Cape of Good Hope. Woodblock error of colour opinions wa

Post by capetriangle »

acutipuerilis wrote:
Am I right in thinking that each die was carved separately?

Now, the cancellation. This is also different in the detail, and in its position. Compare the upper left corner, relative to the inner frame lines: the genuine one is lower. The same is true where the bars cross the gutter between the two stamps (clearest on the upper right). There are spectacular differences in the inking of the 'H', and also in the details of the lines to the left of it (and everywhere else, for that matter). The same goes for the 'O'.

I have no idea whether it's a cunning forgery based on the known pair, or a genuine pair cancelled by the hand of the same clerk in his office, getting repetitive strain injury from making the same movement time after time... but it is clearly not the same pair.
Am I right in thinking that each die was carved separately?
No, they were stereotyped.

The same goes for the 'O'.
The letters in the postmark are "C," "G" and "H." For your "O" are you referring to the "C" or the "G"?

I have no idea whether it's a cunning forgery based on the known pair,
I have no doubt.

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Richard Debney

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