Is this a rare USA 1920/30s 1c Green Franklin stamp?

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Re: What is the measurement on the Scott 552 1c Franklin?

Post by stallzer »

The Green ink you see is not a set-off. It is a characteristic of a Flat plate print.
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Re: What is the measurement on the Scott 552 1c Franklin?

Post by Tom Wesley »

This is the article from which I received that term.

http://www.linns.com/news/us-stamps/1247/Is-your-1%C2%A2-gre ... e-a-winner

Here is the particular paragraph:
Another way to identify a flat-plate stamp is to look on the back. It will usually have specks of green ink, called set-off, transferred when printed sheets were stacked one on top of another to dry. Rotary press stamps were dried by passing the printed web through a heated chamber before being rolled up, so they seldom have set-off on the back.
I don't want to get into unnecessary debates about terminology, but is the term "set-off" correct or not?

Or is this one of those "experts disagree"! :D

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Re: What is the measurement on the Scott 552 1c Franklin?

Post by drkohler »

Tom Wesley wrote: I don't want to get into unnecessary debates about terminology, but is the term "set-off" correct or not?
It is correct. Even if there are but a few green splashes of color, it's still a set-off of the stamp(s) on the sheet just below the stamp.

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Re: What is the measurement on the Scott 552 1c Franklin?

Post by stallzer »

Personally I don't consider it an offset / set off unless the image is on the back of the stamp.
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Re: What is the measurement on the Scott 552 1c Franklin?

Post by Tom Wesley »

I understand the different interpretations.

In the case of a scenario where there are only specks, if it is not set-off, what would it be called. Just plain, "specks"?

In either case, a result of the flat-plate process.

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Re: What is the measurement on the Scott 552 1c Franklin?

Post by billw2 »

I usually see the ink on the reverse of flat plate stamps referred to as offset.

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Re: 1924 United States 1 Cent Green Franklin Stamp - Scott #

Post by Remco Mouthaan »

To stirr up an old thread... sorry glen ... :).

First let me start that i dont think i hit the jackpot or anything.

But what Scott# type might this be?

It has got perf. 11 all round, measures 19.25mm x 22,5mm
As you can see in the pictures, it is not the nicest stamp when you look at it, but ok.
The paper is quite different from all the others i found over here.

Perf. 11 on the left, the more yellow ish paper..

Thanks in advance,

1.

Image

2.

Image

3.

Image

4.

Image

5.

Image

Dont laugh at the perfs.. :), they are not that ehh good looking.
And dont shoot me for asking something stupid again ;).

Remco

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Re: 1924 United States 1 Cent Green Franklin Stamp - Scott #

Post by billw2 »

The one on the left is flat plate printed (Hence the offset on the reverse of it) so it can't be one of the good ones.

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Re: 1924 United States 1 Cent Green Franklin Stamp - Scott #

Post by Remco Mouthaan »

;), now thats a quick anwser, thanks alot.

May i be so rude to ask for your thoughts on the scott number, or is that really impossilbe with
the info and pictures i provided?

To be honest i dont know how the reverse of a "good" one should look, but it should not have the
ink ish impression on the back..?

Edit: got it, sorry :). Smooth it should be..

Thanks for the anwser given sofar !! :)

Remco

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Re: 1924 United States 1 Cent Green Franklin Stamp - Scott #

Post by stallzer »

Correct, the ink you see on the bak of the stamp is a dead giveaway of a flat plate print. All the scarce ones are rotary press.
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Re: 1924 United States 1 Cent Green Franklin Stamp - Scott #

Post by Remco Mouthaan »

:), thanks.

Makes it so much easier with some help from people with knowledge.

Now lets see if i can find the right numbers..

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Is this USA 1c Benjamin Franklin "Scott 596" help me please

Post by Ahmed »

hi all friends

To all 1¢ Benjamin Franklin Experts,

This is "596 scott" Please help me confirm that

first dark green

Image

second

Image

thanks for help
Last edited by CMJ on 28 Dec 2017 06:10, edited 6 times in total.
Reason: Expanded rather vague heading

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Re: This is "596 scott" help me please

Post by phyvillo »

Please post a picture so we can help you.

This thread will help you to learn how.

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=284

Cheers Phil
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Re: This is "596 scott" help me please

Post by Ahmed »

thanks phyvillo

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Re: This is "596 scott" help me please

Post by phyvillo »

ahmed wrote:thanks phyvillo
No Problem. Well done with the pictures, they came out well.

If you still can edit the post, please add the country USA to the title. As "This is "596 scott" help me please" does not say what country you are talking about. You have one hour to edit your posts after making them.

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Re: Is this USA 1c Benjamin Franklin "Scott 596" help me ple

Post by samcam »

US Scott #596 Franklin is of size 19¼ x 22½ mm, perf 11. Most of these stamps are Bureau pre-cancelled "Kansas City, Mo." (c.v. $110,000).

I do not have the census of the non pre-cancelled singles but both of the above ones are most probably Sc #552 perf 11 ($0.25 used). Or if you can measure the size minutely and if it comes to 19¼ x 22½ mm and perforated 10 all sides then it could be 581 ($0.75 used).

But if the perforation is 11 and size is 19¾ x 22¼ mm, than it could be Sc #594 ($12500 used - another high value desirable single).

Start by measuring the perfs first and then go on to measure the image area size (first horizontally and then vertically).
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Re: Is this USA 1c Benjamin Franklin "Scott 596" help me ple

Post by Ahmed »

thanks samcam

for help :)

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Re: Is this USA 1c Benjamin Franklin "Scott 596" help me ple

Post by billw2 »

Post a scan of the backs first.

Second one absolutely is not. First one I'll look at later today.

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Re: Is this USA 1c Benjamin Franklin "Scott 596" help me ple

Post by Ahmed »

thank you billw2 for help

scan with back

:? :( :o

Image


Image

:roll:

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Re: Is this USA 1c Benjamin Franklin "Scott 596" help me ple

Post by Ahmed »

new photo with mobile

Image

:roll: :wink:

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Re: Is this USA 1c Benjamin Franklin "Scott 596" help me ple

Post by billw2 »

Both are common, neither is the rarity.

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Re: Is this USA 1c Benjamin Franklin "Scott 596" help me ple

Post by Ahmed »

thanks billw2 for information

:)

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Re: USA 1c Ben Franklin - Don't tell me this ISN'T Scott #59

Post by father jack »

Just found this one on ebay uk. Im no expert but i think this is a 552 not a 596.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-cent-green-franklin-stamp-1923-c ... 3f54545be7

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Re: USA 1c Ben Franklin - Don't tell me this ISN'T Scott #59

Post by Global Administrator »

father jack wrote:Just found this one on ebay UK. I''m no expert but i think this is a 552 not a 596.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-cent-green-franklin-stamp-1923-c ... 3f54545be7
As per our standard rules here (and common sense!) ALWAYS load the image in the thread please, or in a few weeks this auction will scroll off forever. :idea:

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Re: USA 1c Ben Franklin - Don't tell me this ISN'T Scott #59

Post by stallzer »

Here are the sellers small and inadequate pictures. The scan of the back of the stamp clearly shows it to be a flat plate print which rules out the coil waste claim, but what would one expect from a seller with zero feedback ?


Image


Image
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Re: USA 1c Ben Franklin - Don't tell me this ISN'T Scott #59

Post by billw2 »

father jack wrote:Just found this one on ebay uk. Im no expert but i think this is a 552 not a 596.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-cent-green-franklin-stamp-1923-c ... 3f54545be7
Ahh what the heck I'll help the new guy...

Image

Feck, Arse indeed.

The absolute giveaway is the offset ink on the reverse of the stamp indicating that it was flat plate printed and CANNOT be a 594/596.

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Re: USA 1c Ben Franklin - Don't tell me this ISN'T Scott #59

Post by Wucky100 »

Hi Everyone,

One thing I can say, "Said" started a really interesting thread here, I hope he is still reading this, as I have been collecting US stamps for 40 years and I have learned a lot about this 1 stamp.....

Thanks for everyone's opinions and thoughts,

"Philately".....Such a great hobby!
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Re: USA 1c Ben Franklin - Don't tell me this ISN'T Scott #59

Post by Mitgar62 »

Ah, perforations. I have thousands of KEVII and KGV UK stamps awaiting their perf checks when I get the moment... but as I've already found a SG279 I know it's worth the search.

Still, I know perfectly well that I'll be lucky to find anything else of value in the remnants, and I'm not going to get snarky to someone else who obviously knows what they're saying and has visual evidence to back it up, should I post a mistake. That's where these people go wrong. Just say, "oops, sorry", and move on.

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US Postage One Cent Franklin

Post by Gasman »

Hi Everybody,
I would like to ask for help with bellow picture of stamp. I mean, if its worth for sending to USA to Philatelic Foudation for examin. I dont understand for stamp perforation.
So, please, can anyone explain me what kind of stamp is it?
Thank you very much
Ondrej

Image

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US one cent Franklin Stamp

Post by Gasman »

Hi everyone,

please, is there any person, who tell me more about this stamp? I mean, if its worth to send to examin. Thanks to every reply.

Image

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Re: US one cent

Post by psestamp »

It appears to be a very common Perf 11 flat plate.

No winner here unless you can measure the perfs and show it isn't perf 11.
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Re: US Postage One Cent Franklin

Post by Chas Adrion »

looks like SC 552, common; please post same scan of the reverse to confirm

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Re: US one cent Franklin Stamp

Post by Allanswood »

And please don't start the same thread multiple times. :)
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Re: US Postage One Cent Franklin

Post by kuikka »

Perforation number tells how many holes there are on 2cm distance. With perforation gauge you do not need to do the counting.

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Re: US one cent Franklin Stamp

Post by fromdownunder »

Moderator Comment:

Identical threads merged.

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1 cent Franklin postmarked 1925

Post by Just Mike »

I found some postcards from the 1920's. Most are green or red Washingtons. One that was unmailed. Then I found this franklin. What's the difference?

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Re: 1 cent Franklin postmarked 1925

Post by fromdownunder »

I really won't say what I really want to say. But you might have read the eMail which welcomed you to Stampboards and followed the yellow brick road.

The difference is that it maybe had a different stamp, and since it is an invisible postcard, nobody will ever know as you did not bother to show us anything!.

So, I might as well lock this useless waste of bandwidth.

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What catalogue number is my USA 1c green Franklin stamp?

Post by Just Mike »

I heard in the early 20s there were different types of Franklin and green one cent stamps how do I tell if mine is a value I'm a little confused attached is a photo.
Image
Last edited by GlenStephens on 23 Mar 2017 11:10, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited the mangled up photo link so it posts here.

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Re: Franklin 1 cent stamp

Post by Kainnikanada »

Just Mike,

Here's the link to the 'posting' thread you should be reviewing i.e. post a scan on this thread rather than the easy way out link which some Stampboarders are reluctant to click on:

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=284

Try it out and you'll have a more informative post.

You might also wish to update/correct the heading of this thread to provide more impact - add a country name, a catalogue number etc..

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Re: Franklin 1 cent stamp

Post by capetriangle »

Just Mike

I taken a look at your internet image and the stamp is so off-centre as to be practically unmeasurable. I would assume therefore that it is one of the cheapest examples.

Kindest regards

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Re: Franklin 1 cent stamp

Post by GlenStephens »

Please READ our simple tutorial re posting images - the massive image you posted needed to be edited by Mods. Using the PREVIEW button would have told you that. :idea:

THEN, This might be an opportune time to remind ALL, that headings here are at all times to be descriptive please, and make ready sense to all other members quickly browsing new topics -

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2556

“Franklin 1 cent stamp” Does NOT qualify in any way, and please bear that in mind, for wording on your future new thread headings. :idea:

No-one can read YOUR mind, and thoughtful headings take only 10 extra seconds, get a far quicker and better answer to YOUR question, and saves the Volunteer Moderators a TON of needless work a year. Thanks in advance. 8)

We do NOT charge by the word here, so add as many words as you can to ALL headings, as it makes YOUR query more visible to more members then and you’ll get your answers. 4 word headings etc never work.

Google and BING and Yahoo all have an army of ‘bots’ glued to this site 24/7, as you can see. They index EVERY word, and EVERY photo. Thoughtful, intelligent, headings then get a global exposure to answer YOUR query. We do NOT charge you by the word, so use PLENTY! :D

Heading has now been amended to what it should have been in the first place i.e. something like this -
"What catalogue number is my USA 1c green Franklin stamp?"
Remember, all members have ONE HOUR from posting any new topic, to edit the contents or heading etc.

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Re: What catalogue number is my USA 1c green Franklin stamp?

Post by stallzer »

The darker green shade most likely makes it a Scott #552.
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Re: What catalogue number is my USA 1c green Franklin stamp?

Post by gavin-h »

Just Mike wrote:I heard in the early 20s there were different types of Franklin and green one cent stamps how do I tell if mine is a value I'm a little confused attached is a photo.
Mike,

In general, you can narrow it down using a few simple logical steps.

Firstly, the date on the postmark. In this case, "1925" jumps out at you! So, you can IMMEDIATELY dismiss any varieties produced after that date. Logic: "It can't be used before it's made!"

Secondly (and I don't know these issues, so this is just an illustration!), let's say there were different printings in 1911, 1921 and 1924. Yours would most likely (though not 100%) be the 1924 printing, less likely the 1921 and least likely the 1911. Logic: "It's unlikely that someone would have had a stamp hanging about for a decade or more"

Thirdly, let's say you've narrowed it down to two possibilities, one is worth $1,000 and the other is worth 10 cents. Yours would almost certainly be the 10 cent variety. Logic: "An expensive stamp is very rare, and unlikely to turn up randomly compared to a cheaper variety".

None of these are foolproof (not even the first test if a clerk set a wrong date on the canceller - and yes, that does happen from time to time!). But they are always a good starting position to lead you to a sensible conclusion.

And that's before you've started looking at things like the perforations, the watermark and the shades which will lead you to the ultimate identification of your stamp.

Ain't stamp collecting fun???

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Re: What catalogue number is my USA 1c green Franklin stamp?

Post by billw2 »

1925 would mean that it's virtually guaranteed to not be a "1 out of millions" 594 or especially a 596.

For those unfamiliar... the stamp posted above is a 1 cent from the fourth bureau issue of 1922. There were many billions of these stamps printed and despite being 80-95 years old they remain dirt common and worth extremely little.

There are, however, a very small handful of esoteric and rare varieties of these stamps that can be extremely valuable. These were made from leftover stamps ("sheet waste") printed on the (then) new high volume rotary printing presses. The bureau took these leftover stamps, perforated them and sent them out to be sold.

Due to minor variations in size of the stamp and perforations, these varieties range from very rare to extremely rare today. Also, when first issued there was no knowledge of them amongst the collecting community and as these were often used on the equivalent of "junk mail" precious few survived.

The first, Scott #594, was made from waste originally meant to be used for coil stamps. According to Siegel Auctions' census 120 are known to exist. This stamp is worth 5 figures.

The second, Scott #596, was made from waste meant for sheets of stamps. Also, according to Siegel's census, 15 are known to exist. This is a 6 figure stamp.

So, on some of the American stamp boards, people pop in weekly and think they have one. They generally don't as people have been looking for these for 80 years and very few have surfaced.

Siegel's census on the 4th bureau perf rarities:

https://siegelauctions.com/enc/rotary.htm

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Re: What catalogue number is my USA 1c green Franklin stamp?

Post by gavin-h »

billw2 wrote:There were many billions of these stamps printed and despite being 80-95 years old they remain dirt common and worth extremely little.
Yes, I've often had the conversation with non-collectors or new collectors who say "It's really old, it must be worth a fortune...".

My reply is along the lines of: think about what life was like back then - no mobile (cell) phones, no internet, many ordinary folks didn't have a phone. If you wanted to enquire about a product in the store, or have a chat with your aunt and uncle, or just to invite friends round for a meal, you wrote a letter. And in a highly-literate society that meant that millions of people were writing billions of letters a year. And near every one had a stamp on it!!!

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Re: What catalogue number is my USA 1c green Franklin stamp?

Post by Allanswood »

Watched a show lat night that said that mail volumes basically doubled every 10 years well into the 1900's.

In the UK alone in the early 1900's 9,000,000,000 (9 billion) items were being posted each year. The world wide postal service was one of the biggest industries on the planet.
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Re: What catalogue number is my USA 1c green Franklin stamp?

Post by billw2 »

Allanswood wrote:Watched a show lat night that said that mail volumes basically doubled every 10 years well into the 1900's.

In the UK alone in the early 1900's 9,000,000,000 (9 billion) items were being posted each year. The world wide postal service was one of the biggest industries on the planet.
Another thing too, back in the 19th century the British were moving a huge percentage of the world's mail, even if it just transited England they saw a huge amount of mail that went overseas from the USA for example.

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Re: What catalogue number is my USA 1c green Franklin stamp?

Post by billw2 »

gavin-h wrote:
billw2 wrote:There were many billions of these stamps printed and despite being 80-95 years old they remain dirt common and worth extremely little.
Yes, I've often had the conversation with non-collectors or new collectors who say "It's really old, it must be worth a fortune...".

My reply is along the lines of: think about what life was like back then - no mobile (cell) phones, no internet, many ordinary folks didn't have a phone. If you wanted to enquire about a product in the store, or have a chat with your aunt and uncle, or just to invite friends round for a meal, you wrote a letter. And in a highly-literate society that meant that millions of people were writing billions of letters a year. And near every one had a stamp on it!!!
Yup! People are amazed when they see stamped covers from the 1850s that sell for perhaps $5-10. Took a friend of mine to a stamp show and he couldn't believe that "Old letters from the Civil war era" were $5 each. Well, yeah... the Civil was was raging and it was what everyone was talking about but a 3c Rose on cover from the 1860s from, say, New York to Boston is nothing special, it's just a 150 year old piece of regular mail.

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Re: What catalogue number is my USA 1c green Franklin stamp?

Post by Just Mike »

Thank you everyone for the information. Although this stamp was the youngest in my post cart collection, it was the only Franklin. Most Washington's starting from 1915

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Re: What catalogue number is my USA 1c green Franklin stamp?

Post by gavin-h »

Don't be discouraged at the thought that many (most!) stamps are worth very little, Mike.

As you can see from our comments, there's TONS of history in there - the social impacts of the postage stamp are absolutely fascinating, and you can learn a heck of a lot about what your country was like in the years and decades before you were born. That's why so many of us think it's such a great hobby. :idea:

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