Is this a rare USA 1920/30s 1c Green Franklin stamp?

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1924 USA 1c Green Franklin Stamp - Is this Scott 596?

Post by fredr »

Image

United States stamp-Franklin,1 cent,dark green.
Perf 11.

Width of stamp is 19 1/4 mm.
Height of stamp is 22 1/2 mm.

Stamp on old Town Post Card-Albany,New York.

Cancelled in Albany, New York on Sept.21, 1924.

Looking to find the Scott number for this stamp.

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by jugoslavija_post »

It's either:

552 - $0.20 (Plate?)
596 - $120,000 :shock: (Rotary)

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by fredr »

hello-that's quite a large range in values......how can we narrow down which one?
What criteria?

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by Flying Tiger »

The stamp dimensions you provided indicate the stamp is:
Rotary Press Perforated 11
Scott 596.

Priced used only....with machine cancel $130,000 (2007)
with bureau precancel $110,000 (2007)
Majority of bureau precancels are "Kansas City, Mo"

While not impossible, I doubt it is a 596.
Last edited by Flying Tiger on 29 Dec 2009 11:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by iomoon »

Eight of the thirteen examples of 596 known, have Kansas City cancels.
The chances of it being 596 are several million to one against.

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by fredr »

Were any cancelled in New York state?

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by Flying Tiger »

fredr wrote:Were any cancelled in New York state?
My reference material only mention Kansas
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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by fredr »

Was Kansas,MO. the only city/state to cancel the # 596?
Has anyone ever heard of another state that cancelled the # 596?

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by iomoon »

The remaining five only have wavy lines, no city.

Definitely not a NY duplex.

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by fredr »

What makes the #596 different from the # 552? (other than the money)

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by jugoslavija_post »

As mentioned earlier, different printing methods.

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by librarianc »

Ya know Fred........if you were to ever get a chance to drop in on the Hamilton Stamp Club for one of their meetings....

http://www.hamiltonstampclub.com/

I bet they would have some reference books and catalogues that members are allowed to use.

You have so many great stamp questions that these books would provide a wealth of information for you.

Click on the link above to get the meeting dates and check them out. Your local stamp club can be one of your best resources!!

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by fredr »

I'm trying to get info on the 'printing methods' and am not getting definitive answers.
More specific,please........just in case I have the # 596.

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by Khep »

http://www.1847usa.com/identify/YearSets/1923.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This link may be of some help. See "The Sheet Rotary Rarities of 1922 and 1923", about half way down the page.

Also, this page, and the link to "methods of printing" note (1) at the bottom.

http://www.1847usa.com/Sc551_686.htm#1c%20Franklin%20of%20the%201922-1935%20Series" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Canada, NZ, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Sweden

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by Brummie »

Khep, that Year Set site is really good. I found the 13 known stamps so fred can see what they look like...as they say a picture is worth a thousand words.

http://www.siegelauctions.com/enc/census/596.pdf

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott #

Post by mstary1 »

fredr wrote:Image
United States stamp-Franklin,1 cent,dark green.
Perf 11.
Width of stamp is 19 1/4 mm.
Height of stamp is 22 1/2 mm.
Stamp on old Town Post Card-Albany,New York.
Cancelled in Albany,New York on Sept.21,1924.
Looking to find the Scott number for this stamp.
looks like a 552 to me , I thought the 596 green colour was a tad paler and almost lime green?

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by fredr »

Hello-I received an email that the #596 was dark green-not lime green.

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by Flying Tiger »

Send it in to the APS for expertization.

http://www.stamps.org/Services/ser_AboutExpertizing.htm
Regards, Jay

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by Global Administrator »

Fred . . yes, send it in and spend $40 to get told what we have all told you here. That you are a dreamer. :lol:

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Ce

Post by tonyevans1 »

It looks EXACTLY the same as my six copies so it MUST be #596 - Tony
If no one else collects Heligoland or UPU how come I have to pay so much ?????

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by Eric Casagrande »

Global Administrator wrote:Fred . . yes, send it in and spend $40 to get told what we have all told you here. That you are a dreamer. :lol:
Thank you for saying what I have been debating to say all day.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott # ?

Post by Flying Tiger »

Global Administrator wrote:Fred . . yes, send it in and spend $40 to get told what we have all told you here. That you are a dreamer. :lol:
I will tell him it is not a 596 for $20 :D
Regards, Jay

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Re: 1924 United States 1 Cent Green Franklin Stamp - Scott #?

Post by Global Administrator »

Sorry to undercut you, but I'll do it for just $10. :lol:

All credit cards accepted of course .. and paypal.

Fred could pay for my current vacation very fast I think - I can see at least $1000 for 2 minutes work right here -

http://www.stampboards.com/search.php?author_id=3341&sr=posts.

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Re: 1924 United States 1 Cent Green Franklin Stamp - Scott #?

Post by fredr »

ouch

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1c Franklin 594 or 596? hoping its something good

Post by ChicagoRon »

Could this be the 1c Franklin 594 or 596?

Image

Image

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Re: 1c Franklin 594 or 596? hoping its something good

Post by stallzer »

Welcome Chicago Ron, what part are you from ? 596 is out of the question as it was a bureau Pre-cancelled Stamp with "Kansas City MO." As far as it being the coil waste 594 I would highly doubt it as it's 3 years after the 1923 #594 was issued. Looks to be a Scott#632.

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http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10277
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Re: 1924 United States 1 Cent Green Franklin Stamp - Scott #

Post by sedmdesatkw »

Hello everyone.I have this stamp. It looks like scott #596,and is considerably taller than the regular flat plate issue.
Please specify some more information on the different shades of the stamp.Also i would like to know if any other issues of the same design as scott #596 (for example scott #632) could have exactly the same design size ( 19.25 mm wide , 22.50 mm height/tall).Information about the machine cancellation would be also appreciated. Here is a photo of the stamp.


Image

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Re: 1924 United States,Green 1 Cent Franklin Stamp-Scott #

Post by stallzer »

fredr wrote:I'm trying to get info on the 'printing methods' and am not getting definitive answers.
More specific,please........just in case I have the # 596.
Fredr, your Stamp is a Scott # 552, the printing is too sharp to be a Rotary press. Yours is a Flat plate print making it a 552.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my grandfather did–in his sleep. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car."

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Re: 1924 United States 1 Cent Green Franklin Stamp - Scott #

Post by AussieStamps »

Please can someone tell what my stamp is...
One photo with/without light. It has six wave lines.
Thanks.
ImageImage

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Re: 1924 United States 1 Cent Green Franklin Stamp - Scott #

Post by Machaggis52 »

With German stamps, unless you have a top margin copy, it is virtually impossible to determine whether a stamp is flat plate or rotary print. Is it the same with these?
With kind regards, Jim

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Re: 1924 United States 1 Cent Green Franklin Stamp - Scott #

Post by stallzer »

The difference between Flat and Rotary press on the Washington / Franklin Stamps is the print quality and size. Aussie Stamps, the 6 wavy lines are from a Machine cancel.
Not in front of my catalogs so I'll take a look after work if nobody has responded.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my grandfather did–in his sleep. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car."

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Re: 1924 United States 1 Cent Green Franklin Stamp - Scott #

Post by Stewart »

G,day sedmdesatkw,

Try this site for information on wavy line cancellation
http://www.hamiltonphilatelic.org/presentations/postmarks.pdf
Also according to this site http://www.1847usa.com/1922identifier.htm
the 596 is 19x22.5+

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Re: 1924 United States 1 Cent Green Franklin Stamp - Scott #

Post by Stewart »

Image

This stamp is a Scott 596, the information I have relied on is,
(1)Perforations 11x11 (exact gauge using Instanta gauge 11.4x10.8 )
(2)using, https://www.1847usa.com/1922identifier.htm ,to verify Design Size 19mm x 22.5mm
(3)Stamp is Rotrary using, https://www.1847usa.com/FlatPlateVsRotary.htm
(4) Colour variations, https://www.siegelauctions.com/enc/census/596.pdf

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Re: 1924 United States 1 Cent Green Franklin Stamp - Scott #

Post by Hronik »

stewart wrote: (2)using, http://www.1847usa.com/1922identifier.htm ,to verify Design Size 19mm x 22.5mm
A wet stamp can be easily stretched.
0.5mm is just about 2% of design height.

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Re: 1924 United States 1 Cent Green Franklin Stamp - Scott #

Post by Stewart »

http://www.1847usa.com/FlatPlateVsRotary.htm

Determines whether the stamp is Flat plate or Rotrary, I have since making the previous post discovered that the # 596 was perforated with the flat plate perforator and not the rotrary perforator.

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USA Ben Franklin 1c P11 x 10½ - listed? Can't see in Scott

Post by mjp108 »

I have this stamp and am unsure as to how to identify it. The perfs are
11 x 10½ and that doesn't seem to match any of the stamps and markings listed in Scotts. Any thoughts?

Image

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Re: USA Ben Franklin 1c

Post by The Pom »

mjp108 wrote: Any thoughts?
MODERATOR COMMENT

Several thoughts!

Please use the preview button, I've tidied up your post to remove all the erroneous bits of picture link.

Please also take note of our Rule "Create descriptive titles". "USA Ben Franklin 1c" doesn't really say much. I will amend your title to something more specific.

Hopefully someone will be along shortly who can help with your query.
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Re: USA Ben Franklin 1c P11 x 10½ - listed? Can't see in Sco

Post by Sc16221 »

If you're right about the perfs (and from the shade of green I'd say you are), it's the 1c from the 1926-34 Rotary press issue. The set was issued piecemeal from 1926 onwards and this value appeared officially on June 10, 1927, although it is known on cover as early as May 24.

It's a very common stamp. I don't know what the Scott number is, but hope this helps you find it.

Clive

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Re: USA Ben Franklin 1c P11 x 10½ - listed? Can't see in Sco

Post by stallzer »

Scott # 632, 1927
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USA Franklin rotary press coil waste?

Post by MMMikey64 »

Hello everyone,
In my recent searching through my collection for rare stamps, I think I have found what is a very rare stamp ( correct me if wrong) the franklin is a genuine 11x11 and has the measurements of the more rare coil sheet waste stamp; I came to this conclusion because I have the flat plate perf 11x11 and the one I suspect of being rotary coil sheet waste is taller and has the dimensions as well as a machine cancel. I have other franklin coils that are bigger than the one I suspect and the design is 19x 22.5+ but my franklin is measured as 19x22.5 exactly. Here is a picture of the flat plate and the franklin I suspect as being rotary sheet waste; both perf 11x11 Image

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Re: USA Franklin rotary press coil waste?

Post by Sailer2002 »

Not sure? Join the club. I have tried to check for waste stamps without success. I have purchased them and the dimensions you mention are correct. However your reference to a machine cancel is mis leading. Do you mean a Pre Cancel? This issue is known to exist with a precancel for Kansas City. Kansas

I would send it out for authentication at one of the services.
http://www.1847usa.com/1922identifier.htm
I use this site for much of my franklin study.
http://www.1847usa.com/washfrank/design3/d31p11.htm
there is also Washington Waste stamps as well. Good luck.
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Re: USA Franklin rotary press coil waste?

Post by MMMikey64 »

Thanks for the reply. I have also compared it to a coil perf two sides 10' and the design measurements match. I have also seen these with this cancel as well on auction. I do well agree with you about the Kansas precancel although in my readings I also see that most of them have the precancel as others would have cancels like mine. I am not 100% sure but I have seen them. Thanks so much for the backup. One thing though and one question; this stamp has a paper thin; how much do you think a rotary sheet waste can go for with a thin? It is also hinged, sadly.

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Re: USA Franklin rotary press coil waste?

Post by MMMikey64 »

Although the franklin rotary sheet waste can be found mostly with Kansas overprint, the franklin rotary sheet waste can also be found with a machine cancel that looks like mine. Check out this auction and read carefully about this stamp. I don't believe it but I think I've found it!! http://stampauctionnetwork.com/y/y968b47.cfm

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Re: USA Franklin rotary press coil waste?

Post by stallzer »

I think you have a bit of catalog confusion. First off the design size for your supposed "Coil waste" which would make it a Scott #594 (Design type A155) has a design size of 19¾ X 22¼ mm. If it were the Rotary press sheet waste it would be Scott #596 (again, design typeA155)this is the one most often found with the Kansas City MO. bureau precancel, this design size is 19¼ X 22½ mm.

I'd get a new perf gauge. If you have a Rotary press, it's 11 X 10½. Otherwise, the only way to know for sure is to spend the money and get it certified but I think you'd be wasting money.
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Re: USA Franklin rotary press coil waste?

Post by MMMikey64 »

I really do apologize but how does a metal in form perforation gauge lose its strength? I am most sure that this is perforated 11' I may make mistakes but I am educated enough to use a perforation gauge. I see one on auction with it stating that 5 of the found copies actually do not have the precancel. I could be mistaken but most likely not. I apologize for being rude about the gauge. Thanks,

Michael

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Re: USA Franklin rotary press coil waste?

Post by patg »

Good info here. The four corner template method works pretty good.

https://www.1847usa.com/FlatPlateVsRotary.htm

patg


P/S- Here's some I had made:
(off topic) the German inflation one one the right, helps me look for over/under stitches, without counting each one.

Image
Last edited by patg on 20 May 2014 12:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: USA Franklin rotary press coil waste?

Post by MMMikey64 »

If this is an impossible find, where are the others? Should we give up on finding these types of rarities? Believe it or not, they are out there and I truly believe I have stumbled upon one. I am going to get this certified and keep posted. Those are very good templates. I used the half cut template for this issue because it has a difference in how tall it is.
Last edited by MMMikey64 on 20 May 2014 12:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: USA Franklin rotary press coil waste?

Post by MMMikey64 »

Thanks for the template tip. I will do that right away but I have already used a flat plate franklin printing for dimension difference. Thanks

Mike

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Re: USA Franklin rotary press coil waste?

Post by MMMikey64 »

I have used the flat plate printing template and I have checked my perforation more than ten times. Like I said, I am going to get this certified.


Mike


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Re: USA Franklin rotary press coil waste?

Post by MMMikey64 »

I believe this is coil sheet waste but not (coil waste) there are 596's with this cancel. Another point I want to make is I believe I am 100% correct about the dimensions of 596. Here is the proof http://www.1847usa.com/1922identifier.htm
Last edited by MMMikey64 on 20 May 2014 13:09, edited 1 time in total.

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