WWII German cover with French legion stamp Fake?

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Robustian
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WWII German cover with French legion stamp Fake?

Post by Robustian »

.
Have this cover that’s been lying around and i never really researched it properly.

Reading around on the forum I realise the amount of fakes that’s out there.

Hitler on one side and a imperforated French Legion stamp on the other.

When i look at it, it just doesn’t feel right so a second opinion is needed

1D1A5350-6EA6-4270-B437-0182CDFC1F1B.jpeg


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Re: WWII cover with French legion stamp Fake?

Post by Alchemy68 »

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I am no expert in the area but have an interest in the LVF from waay back. The label colour saturation looks wrong and the paper looks too white to be contemporary. But equally telling is the postmark on the label. That is a special handstamp claiming to be from the SS Der Fuhrer division which was a pretty prestigious fighting unit.

The LVF on the other hand were poorly regarded and were disbanded in September 1944 (postmark on the stamp is December 1944). The remaining LVF soldiers were then associated with the SS Charlemagne division rather than Der Fuhrer.

It is possible of course that someone transferred, or that a Der Fuhrer soldier had an LVF label lying around but i doubt it.

I am always prepared to be wrong but I would agree with your gut feeling; that does not look right for the dates and handstamps used. I suspect a copy LVF label has been added many years post war to a real 1944 Hitler head cover.
.

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Re: WWII cover with French legion stamp Fake?

Post by Number-O-Ne »



I know from experience with my Italian Social Republic collection. Many German military seals became available after the war. These were quickly obtained by stamp enthusiasts and used to "embellish" rather bland documents. I see a lot of those on Italian related covers, as well.

Typically, SS seals are used because of the visual effects and notoriety.

Authentic Italian SS-soldier postal documents are in fact very rare. In the immediate post war period, Italian partisans searched the houses of the people suspected of sympathizing with German forces. Any proof of SS affiliation, such as a soldier letter with SS signs, was an immediate death sentence for the soldier. These letters were destroyed by the families quickly. Given the how the French resistance fighters felt about Charlemagne and similar Waffen SS units, it may be fair to assume French SS letters were also destroyed at the time..


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Re: WWII cover with French legion stamp Fake?

Post by Robustian »

Alchemy68 wrote:
19 Sep 2021 05:34
I am no expert in the area but have an interest in the LVF from waay back. The label colour saturation looks wrong and the paper looks too white to be contemporary. But equally telling is the postmark on the label. That is a special handstamp claiming to be from the SS Der Fuhrer division which was a pretty prestigious fighting unit. The LVF on the other hand were poorly regarded and were disbanded in September 1944 (postmark on the stamp is December 1944). The remaining LVF soldiers were then associated with the SS Charlemagne division rather than Der Fuhrer.

It is possible of course that someone transferred, or that a Der Fuhrer soldier had an LVF label lying around but i doubt it.

I am always prepared to be wrong but I would agree with your gut feeling; that does not look right for the dates and handstamps used. I suspect a copy LVF label has been added many years post war to a real 1944 Hitler head cover.
You are probably right. Seems unlikely they wrote a return address as well.

0B5B034B-9CCD-4124-BC57-A5BBF72B1A60.jpeg
It was supposed to be in the first post, but forgot.


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Re: WWII cover with French legion stamp Fake?

Post by Number-O-Ne »

Writing a street return address on a Feldpost cover was prohibited. The letter would have been returned (if lucky), or most likely destroyed without notice.

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Re: WWII cover with French legion stamp Fake?

Post by Robustian »

Number-O-Ne wrote:
19 Sep 2021 06:33


I know from experience with my Italian Social Republic collection. Many German military seals became available after the war. These were quickly obtained by stamp enthusiasts and used to "embellish" rather bland documents. I see a lot of those on Italian related covers, as well.

Typically, SS seals are used because of the visual effects and notoriety.

Authentic Italian SS-soldier postal documents are in fact very rare. In the immediate post war period, Italian partisans searched the houses of the people suspected of sympathizing with German forces. Any proof of SS affiliation, such as a soldier letter with SS signs, was an immediate death sentence for the soldier. These letters were destroyed by the families quickly. Given the how the French resistance fighters felt about Charlemagne and similar Waffen SS units, it may be fair to assume French SS letters were also destroyed at the time..



Thanks that’s good info,
when I searched the other cancellation as unclear as it is i ended up in Austria.

I put a picture of the back in my reply to Alchemy68 above.
And as I wrote there I doubt he would give a return address.


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Re: WWII cover with French legion stamp Fake?

Post by Robustian »

Number-O-Ne wrote:
19 Sep 2021 07:27
Writing a street return address on a Feldpost cover was prohibited. The letter would have been returned (if lucky), or most likely destroyed without notice.
And the guy who wrote it directly to the front. :D
It’s good that i didn’t pay any money for it.
Was in a box a previous inhabitant left in the storage.

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Re: WWII cover with French legion stamp Fake?

Post by ligneN »

ice bear label AND the black mark are recent forgeries.

The purely civilian mail cover (without the left side additions) is genuine.
The place in the postmark is REMAGEN (yes, the town famous for the bridge, movie ec.)
It is adressed to "Dudweiler" in the Saar region.

It is an "altered" cover with fake mounted / fake mark applied.

Perhaps that was done in Poland, where embelleshing old cheapo german nzee period covers with "attractive" SS and other "Reich" stuff is done by entrepreneurs, using zinc-made imitations of handstamps. Tons of these are seen with dealers in Benelux and France.

BTW, the imitated marking is a units official senders marking, used in official business matters (like paymaster, reports... Never appears on or from mails of servicemen, and is a sort of seal, not a postmark. So easily ID-d as a fake for unexperienced buyers who want to make "the find".

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Re: WWII cover with French legion stamp Fake?

Post by gavin-h »

ligneN wrote:
24 Sep 2021 04:25
.
The place in the postmark is REMAGEN (yes, the town famous for the bridge, movie ec.)
.
Looks more like PAMHAGEN to me - small town in Burgenland, Austria which would have also used German stamps in late 1944. :idea:

Other than that, completely agree with your comments about the cover, clearly a modern fake "stamp" and postmark embellishing an equally clearly genuine cover.

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Re: WWII cover with French legion stamp Fake?

Post by ligneN »

gavin-h wrote:
25 Sep 2021 04:01
ligneN wrote:
24 Sep 2021 04:25
.
The place in the postmark is REMAGEN (yes, the town famous for the bridge, movie ec.)
.
Looks more like PAMHAGEN to me - small town in Burgenland, Austria which would have also used German stamps in late 1944. :idea:

Other than that, completely agree with your comments about the cover, clearly a modern fake "stamp" and postmark embellishing an equally clearly genuine cover.
Yes true, Pamhagen. It is an austrian type (pre-1939) datestamp, puzzled me.

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Re: WWII cover with French legion stamp Fake?

Post by Global Administrator »

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The crudest of crude Zinco fake cancel that even Ebay Bunnies would not be fooled by is my guess!
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Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

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Re: WWII cover with French legion stamp Fake?

Post by MJ's pet »

Alchemy68 wrote:
19 Sep 2021 05:34

I am no expert in the area but have an interest in the LVF from waay back. The label colour saturation looks wrong and the paper looks too white to be contemporary. But equally telling is the postmark on the label. That is a special handstamp claiming to be from the SS Der Fuhrer division which was a pretty prestigious fighting unit.

The LVF on the other hand were poorly regarded and were disbanded in September 1944 (postmark on the stamp is December 1944). The remaining LVF soldiers were then associated with the SS Charlemagne division rather than Der Fuhrer.

It is possible of course that someone transferred, or that a Der Fuhrer soldier had an LVF label lying around but i doubt it.

I am always prepared to be wrong but I would agree with your gut feeling; that does not look right for the dates and handstamps used. I suspect a copy LVF label has been added many years post war to a real 1944 Hitler head cover.


Agree with this. Looks like a fake label and fake "postmark" added to an otherwise ordinary cover.

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Re: WWII cover with French legion stamp Fake?

Post by MJ's pet »

Number-O-Ne wrote:
19 Sep 2021 07:27
Writing a street return address on a Feldpost cover was prohibited. The letter would have been returned (if lucky), or most likely destroyed without notice.


This is a really good point. :idea:

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