Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Stamps4Life »

Thank you ikanek

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

Dear Readers, I know nothing about this area of collecting.
Can you tell me a bit about this stamp please ?


IMG_20210325_0002 (6).jpg

The usual stuff. Genuine, fake, issued when, value if any. The back is blank.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Hyderabadi »

Ubobo.R.O it looks fake to me - the postmark is strange, can’t read the Indian script if it’s supposed to be hindi. However let the experts also weigh in...
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Stamps4Life »

That stamp I cannot find in the India SG catalog. That’s the only SG I have. In Scott I have the complete set but do not see that stamp anywhere. But I also have limited experience. I’ll be waiting too to see why the experts have.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Hyderabadi »

It’s not a postage stamp :D never will find it in any catalogue.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by digeriukas »

Big thanks for all the answers above.


What do you think about this Jaipur SG4a sheet ? I think it's genuine, but I'm just a beginner so what do I know ? :geek: :mrgreen:


JaipurSG4a_1.jpg
JaipurSG4a_2.jpg

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by ikanek »

Yes, absolutely genuine. :D

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Stamps4Life »

Hyderabadi wrote:
26 Mar 2021 01:10
It’s not a postage stamp :D never will find it in any catalogue.
file.jpg
So what is it?

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by ikanek »

Stamps4Life wrote:
27 Mar 2021 03:37
Hyderabadi wrote:
26 Mar 2021 01:10
It’s not a postage stamp :D never will find it in any catalogue.

Image
So what is it?
I think some bogus stamp.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Stamps4Life »

stevel wrote:
15 Mar 2021 02:06
Hi all

Hope someone could assist re. identifying these 'oddities' :)

Image

I cannot find a half anna Bamra stamp printed on white paper in the SG Commonwealth catalogue. This is printed on thick paper. A stationery cut out maybe? I'm really not sure :?

Cheers

Steve 8-)
heres one that i am doing too. they look like twins. In a group of a few i have left to place....
Bamra2.jpg
Bamra.jpg

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

Stamps4Life wrote:
27 Mar 2021 03:56
stevel wrote:
15 Mar 2021 02:06
Hi all

Hope someone could assist re. identifying these 'oddities' :)

Image

I cannot find a half anna Bamra stamp printed on white paper in the SG Commonwealth catalogue. This is printed on thick paper. A stationery cut out maybe? I'm really not sure :?

Cheers

Steve 8-)
heres one that i am doing too. they look like twins. In a group of a few i have left to place....

ImageImage
See my previous reply:

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=7147252#p7147252

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Stamps4Life »

Yep - Tks Peter. I put it up for a comparison and thought it funny working at the exact stamp too. Haha. Tks again.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by shivnair »

I just acquired three original artwork pieces . one (below) a hand painted essay for Chambha State Court fee



[/AddSpace]
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by shivnair »

and the other two, a composite essay for a one anna Jath State Revenue and a photo essay for the same.
The composite has the picture pasted in while the surround is painted


[/AddSpace]
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by RogerE »

Very nice pieces, shivnair! Thanks for showing them :D

/RogerE

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by shivnair »

A Pleasure Sir, what's the fun in collecting, if not in sharing with fellow collectors?
#shivshankarnair

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

Ubobo.R.O. wrote:
25 Mar 2021 19:30
Dear Readers, I know nothing about this area of collecting.
Can you tell me a bit about this stamp please ?


Image

The usual stuff. Genuine, fake, issued when, value if any. The back is blank.
Thankyou for the answers so far but does anyone know exactly what this is ? I have filed it under "philatelic funny".
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Stamptastic »

It's time to double the ugliness :mrgreen:
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

Nice stamp.

It would help future users searching the forum if you provided captions for your images, such as:

Charkhari SG 28a, unlisted variety with a double impression.

SG tend not to list double impressions of handstamped issues, but collectable nonetheless.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by indianchariots »

peterh wrote:
01 Apr 2021 08:41

SG tend not to list double impressions of handstamped issues, but collectable nonetheless.
Hey Peter.

SG not inclined towards listing double impression variety in Handstamps - I have heard of this before as well. Is it because with all the human angle involved in the process there is always a room for doubt, whether the stamp is genuinely an accidental one or a deliberate creation?
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Stamptastic »

peterh wrote:
01 Apr 2021 08:41
Nice stamp.

It would help future users searching the forum if you provided captions for your images, such as:

Charkhari SG 28a, unlisted variety with a double impression.

SG tend not to list double impressions of handstamped issues, but collectable nonetheless.
Sorry , to be honest I didn't even know its catalogue number untill you replied, I have sveral Indian states stamps and can only figure out about half of them :D

I looked for a double print to try identify it and wnen i couldnt find it listed l just passed it off as printers waste.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

indianchariots wrote:
01 Apr 2021 12:41
peterh wrote:
01 Apr 2021 08:41

SG tend not to list double impressions of handstamped issues, but collectable nonetheless.
Hey Peter.

SG not inclined towards listing double impression variety in Handstamps - I have heard of this before as well. Is it because with all the human angle involved in the process there is always a room for doubt, whether the stamp is genuinely an accidental one or a deliberate creation?
I agree with that assessment.

One exception seems to be with Kishangarh, where there are several doubly printed varieties listed of the early issues that were printed singly.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

Stamptastic wrote:
02 Apr 2021 09:43
peterh wrote:
01 Apr 2021 08:41
Nice stamp.

It would help future users searching the forum if you provided captions for your images, such as:

Charkhari SG 28a, unlisted variety with a double impression.

SG tend not to list double impressions of handstamped issues, but collectable nonetheless.
Sorry , to be honest I didn't even know its catalogue number untill you replied, I have sveral Indian states stamps and can only figure out about half of them :D

I looked for a double print to try identify it and wnen i couldnt find it listed l just passed it off as printers waste.
It’s a nice stamp and worth its place in a collection.

If you have any more you’re unsure about, please post them here.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by digeriukas »

Hi,
are these Bhopal sheets genuine ? Thanks ;)

SG 54
SG 54
SG 89a
SG 89a

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

digeriukas wrote:
02 Apr 2021 23:54
Hi,
are these Bhopal sheets genuine ? Thanks ;)


ImageImage
These look ok, but check the embossing on the SG 54 to make sure it's the correct octagonal type rather than the circular type of a later reprint.

Having said that, some of the alleged reprints and imitations are known in what appear to be postally used condition.

Also, when the stamps with the later embossing were catalogued by SG (many years ago), some of them were actually priced higher than the apparently correctly issued stamps.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Hyderabadi »

I’m sure this was discussed earlier some where in these pages - but is the stamp on the right ok? It doesn’t have the background engraving in the center circle compared to the stamp in center & left..
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

Hyderabadi wrote:
04 Apr 2021 21:18
I’m sure this was discussed earlier some where in these pages - but is the stamp on the right ok? It doesn’t have the background engraving in the center circle compared to the stamp in center & left..
Image
Yes, they are all genuine.

There is a lot of variation in this issue and particularly in the lower values, which went through many printings, with numerous shades, plate wear, etc.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Hyderabadi »

Thank you peterh
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Travancore-Cochin SG O12 perf 13½ New find?

Post by Chris111 »

I have just found a mint no gum, Travancore-Cochin 1a on 2ch orange SG O12 with perforation 13½ (13.2 to be exact). It is not listed by Gibbons. The non-official stamp, SG 4 is listed with this perf (and is cataloged at £225 for a mint copy, £2 used).

I thought I'd found some thing new but have found a Canadian seller on Ebay offering a used copy of SG O12 with perforation 13½ for £18. Imagine my disappointment. But then my copy is pristine. Has anyone else see this stamp?

But perhaps more importantly do you think it would be worth contacting Gibbons. Surely this stamp should be listed?

All thoughts welcome ...
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Re: Travancore-Cochin SG O12 perf 13½ New find?

Post by peterh »

Are you sure the watermark is correct for SG O12?

It could be SG O17c with the sheet watermark, which is a common stamp?

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Re: Travancore-Cochin SG O12 perf 13½ New find?

Post by Chris111 »

Methinks you are right. I shouldn't jump to conclusions! thanks...

The Canadian seller has probably made the same error ..

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by ikanek »

That´s right, the perforation 13½ was used only on a Cochin sheet watermark. It must be also stated that this perforation is comb perforation, not line as in other sizes.

The sheet watermark is present on some stamps only, but the paper is in general much thicker and white compared to the standard conch shell watermark.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by digeriukas »

peterh wrote:
03 Apr 2021 06:54
digeriukas wrote:
02 Apr 2021 23:54
Hi,
are these Bhopal sheets genuine ? Thanks ;)


ImageImage
These look ok, but check the embossing on the SG 54 to make sure it's the correct octagonal type rather than the circular type of a later reprint.

Having said that, some of the alleged reprints and imitations are known in what appear to be postally used condition.

Also, when the stamps with the later embossing were catalogued by SG (many years ago), some of them were actually priced higher than the apparently correctly issued stamps.
Thanks for reply ;)

Does anyone know if ISES (Indian States Expertizing Service Inc.) certificates are reliable ?

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

I would very much trust an ISES certificate.

It is run by Sandeep Jaiswal and Dan Walker, who both have undoubted expert status in this area.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Stamps4Life »

Can anyone shed any light on these 2? I find not anything at all in SG or Scott for Mysore or Karnatka.... C%M = Civil & Military Station, not sure what that is. Thank you.
Mysore1.jpg
Mysore 2.jpg

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by ikanek »

Stamps4Life wrote:
08 Apr 2021 06:36
Can anyone shed any light on these 2? I find not anything at all in SG or Scott for Mysore or Karnatka.... C%M = Civil & Military Station, not sure what that is. Thank you.
Image
Image
These are revenue stamps of Mysore. You are right it is an issue for Civil and Military Station in Bangalore. Also note that you have two versions of the basic stamp - one with true watermark (at right) and the second with "watermark" added by print on the back of the stamp.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by Stamps4Life »

Thanks. On the sheet I pulled them from they were under Karnatka - ?? Is the signature on the front considered a "cancel" ?

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by ikanek »

Stamps4Life wrote:
08 Apr 2021 07:09
Thanks. On the sheet I pulled them from they were under Karnatka - ?? Is the signature on the front considered a "cancel" ?
It should be Karnataka, an Indian Union state. Mysore lies within this state.

Yes, many revenue stamps of India and princely states were canceled in manuscript.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by digeriukas »

peterh wrote:
08 Apr 2021 00:39
I would very much trust an ISES certificate.

It is run by Sandeep Jaiswal and Dan Walker, who both have undoubted expert status in this area.
Thanks for information ;)

Is this genuine Bundi SG 20a ? Lower stamps are C and B, but I have trouble distinguishing upper stamps :geek:

SG 20a
SG 20a

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

digeriukas wrote:
08 Apr 2021 11:02
peterh wrote:
08 Apr 2021 00:39
I would very much trust an ISES certificate.

It is run by Sandeep Jaiswal and Dan Walker, who both have undoubted expert status in this area.
Thanks for information ;)

Is this genuine Bundi SG 20a ? Lower stamps are C and B, but I have trouble distinguishing upper stamps :geek:

Image
Yes, looks ok. SG 20a is from setting 25, with cliches in order A/D/C/B.

The flaws in cliches A and D are not easy to see in this setting.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by digeriukas »

Thanks for info ;)

This sheet is very beautiful in my opinion.. that green... :D

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by mukulgarga »

Can someone please identify this stamp?
JK SG91.jpg
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by banknoteguy »

Looks like a 1/2 Anna Jammu & Kashmir watercolor. Probably a SG58. Can't tell from your image what kind of paper it is on. Should be native paper to be SG58.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by mukulgarga »

banknoteguy wrote:
09 Apr 2021 00:23
Looks like a 1/2 Anna Jammu & Kashmir watercolor. Probably a SG58. Can't tell from your image what kind of paper it is on. Should be native paper to be SG58.
Isn't it SG91?
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by banknoteguy »

Could be but it looks more like Sg58 to my eyes. Color is more ultramarine but the design looks like earlier issue. Pretty blurred though. Sg91 is very common, so that may be correct.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

mukulgarga wrote:
09 Apr 2021 00:06
Can someone please identify this stamp?

Image
I'm pretty sure this is SG 91, as you stated above.

Not 100% on the position, but I think it is stamp 5 (row 1, stamp 5) in the sheet.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by banknoteguy »

peterh posted,
I'm pretty sure this is SG 91
OK, maybe I can learn something here. Below is the definition from current SG catalog for these two varieties:

J&K Sg58,91 def-cat.jpg

Now here is the item in question marked up. Note the two dots and the dot in the center of the star [these seem to me what is most different in the definitions between these two types]. This looks to me more like T4 than T6. What am I missing? Are you identifying based on color only?

J&K Sg58 or 91.jpg

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

I see where you are coming from, but you have made me realise how poor is the SG illustration of their type 6.

The Jammu plate (SG 52-85) is correctly illustrated. There was only the one plate of four stamps, so any unknown stamp that you think may be from this issue has to conform to one of the exact types.

The composite Kashmir plate (SG 88-89 and 91-96) consisted of 20 half-anna stamps and five 1 anna stamps. Each of the stamps has slight differences in the design.

The SG illustration does not accurately represent any of the positions in the plate. In particular, they always have the dot in the centre of the star at the top.

If you look at the www.kashmirstamps.com site, there is an illustration of a plate proof of the full sheet which is helpful in identifying these stamps.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by banknoteguy »

Thank you Peterh, I did learn something!

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mukulgarga
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - Indian States stamps

Post by mukulgarga »

Thanks banknoteguy and Peterh. Sorry to have thrown in the question like this, but if I had not deliberately created a confusion then the actual analysis would not have come out. We people rely too much on the description from the large auction houses, which actually always should be taken with skepticism in areas like J&K. The stamp in fact was auctioned as SG66 (Hammer £1400) at Feldman Auction. But I still believe that it is SG58 deep violet blue rather then bright blue of SG66.

Like Peterh even I had a confusion of it being SG91 and banknoteguy's observations here helps to identify these stamps from hereon.

I guess it's high time somebody creates dedicated and more illustrated catalog for Indian feudatory states. I don't expect much from SG for this.
You can't have them all

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