Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

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Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Poll ended at 16 Jun 2021 23:18

Yes - for philatelic reasons.
8
9%
Yes - for financial reasons.
4
5%
No - for philatelic reasons.
34
39%
No - for financial reasons.
41
47%
 
Total votes: 87

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Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by The Pom »

As is being discussed elsewhere in this section of the Board:

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=67493&start=1300

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=52624&start=850

Stanley Gibbons have spent $8.3 million on a stamp and are now hoping to sell shares (price TBC) in it.

Would/wouldn't you, and why/why not?

I'll amend the content of the poll if other options get a mention.
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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by Global Administrator »

.
EVERY new thread needs an image, this one especially. :roll:



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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by makielb »

No, I would not buy a share. For me stamps and postal history are for my own pleasure and enjoyment. I like paging through an album or stock book and actually looking at the stamps that I own. If, on the other hand I viewed it as an investment I might consider owning a share.
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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by ddaann »

That is just plain silly. I'd much sooner buy precious metals.
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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by Malaya »

If they allow me, as a co-owner, to do spectroscopy on it and examine it under compound/electron microscopes, I might buy a share. Price negotiable depending on what analyses they allow. Otherwise no.

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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

No.
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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by stampnik »

There are times of economic/monetary froth -- and times of frost.

There has never been more froth around than at the present as a result of "money printing" (expansion of the money supply by one means or another). Some prices in the art and collectables markets are double and treble what they were seven years ago. Bond prices are at insane levels; the yields insanely low. PE ratios have never been higher. The well-to-do have so much money they do not know that to do with it. US$8.3m is small change to a lot of people.

Under these circumstances, that a famous stamp should sell for less now that seven years ago says something about the hobby of philately. Something unhealthy. It is the hobby of old men who are dying off along with their hobby. Not an area for investment.

Problem is: holding cash might turn out to be even worse!

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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by Global Administrator »

.
I do like the concept though.

I for instance am doing it on a much smaller scale.

Send me $5 and you have a 10% share in this superb MUH stamp. GUARANTEED genuine in all respects.

$40 gets you a 100% share, and a block of 10 costs only $350 for a full share.

You may sell your share(s) at any time.

Stamps are stored in my fireproof safe in air-conditioned premises, with 15 security cameras, and back to base alarms, and are fully insured with Lloyds of London.

A Limited Number of lucky members are invited to participate. :lol: :lol: :lol:

For an extra $25 per stamp, a Certificate Of Authentic is supplied.

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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by Catweazle »

.
I can see their thinking behind this in terms of marketing.

But, no.

I don't understand how one could purchase a share when there's only the one thing to go around anyway.

Or is the idea that one day, S.G. will sell it for a profit thereby passing these profits to its British Guiana share holders?

Next they'll be producing digitised images of this thing and sell it as non-fungible token (NFT) to those with too much cryptocurrency to spare.

I'll keep my money, and swap it for Roos and Penny Blacks instead. Or put it into blue-chip shares. Or buy a yacht and a watertight Tupperware container in which to store my stockbooks. :lol:

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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by banknoteguy »



In these days of anything goes (i.e., you can bet on anything) and with this much money involved, it looks like a capital asset to me.

As an investment though, it looks overpriced. I think SG paid all-the-money. In ten years, minus heavy inflation, they will be lucky to get 80% of what they paid. Owning a share of something is different than owning it outright. A fractional owner is never going to be able to put this in his album. I'm not sure putting an image on your main British Guiana page works -- :roll: :D :o

Yet to be determined whether this model will work for SG.

British Guiana 1c magenta enhanced fractional owner.jpg

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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by The Pom »

Catweazle wrote:
10 Jun 2021 00:49


But, no.

I don't understand how one could purchase a share when there's only the one thing to go around anyway.

Same as any other share. There's only one Google/Microsoft/whatever company to go around. You buy rights to a tiny fraction of the whole.

Presumably, if demand outstrips supply, you would be able to sell your stamp shares at a profit, regardless of the stamp being sold. If SG sold it for double in 5 years time, you'd like to think they'd pass this on....

And if they didn't sell all the shares? Buy-back policy?

The small print will be interesting, when it appears.
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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by lesbootman »

Where did SG get $8.3 million?

This is a totally daft idea - you'd be just as well buying a plot of land on Mars.
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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by gregbear61 »

If they included timeshare then who knows - it might be fun to pop it the stock-book for a week :D

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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by Cullen »

Personally, I would never buy or 'invest' in this.

However it may be the sort of novel idea that friends and family might buy as a gift for a collector.

That said, how would the average disinterested non philatelist hear about such a novel idea for a surprise present?

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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by banknoteguy »



Timeshare -- hmmmmm. Nice thought but it has its drawbacks ...

More likely you will get something along these lines for your album:

Attachments
British Guiana 1c magenta enhanced fractional owner.jpg

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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by RevRed+ »

Cullen wrote:
10 Jun 2021 02:03
Personally, I would never buy or 'invest' in this.

However it may be the sort of novel idea that friends and family might buy as a gift for a collector.

That said, how would the average disinterested non philatelist hear about such a novel idea for a surprise present?

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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by Number-O-Ne »

I wouldn't. Doesn’t make sense from philatelic or financial standpoint.

How many shares could be issued?

To get the full money back, and make some profit, we can round up the figure to $10M
Will it be 1 million shares at $10 each? Is it worth to pay $10 to "own" 0,000001 stamp? Could be a nice gift, but the market is not big enough to sell all shares.

If 10000 shares are issued, it will be $1000 a share. There are better ways to invest that amount. Any dividend stock will give a better return and better appreciation.

SG is playing on feelings, not objective data.

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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by David Benson »

Will it have SG's handstamp on the reverse,

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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by memphre »

Shame I could only vote No for financial reason, I think I would also vote no for philatelic reason.

How much will SG spend on insuring the stamp? Such a fragile and expensive item will need be insured to the fullest before any financially savvy investor will even think about plunging in. That should increase total ownership cost, along with required expensive security.

In case of a misadventure, lets put it mildly, SG is certainly not able to cover the loss.

Let's say a new 2mm tear appears. How much do you collect from insurers? How does that sum accrue to the part-owners? This and so many other hypothetical questions need be answered. There you go, the lawyer's bill will be substantial.

Buying one share out of 10,000 is not going to give me any sense of ownership. So no philatelic interest. Many other much more interesting purchases can be made for the money.

Prospect for profit is negative, so no financial interest.

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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by gavin-h »

Would I buy a share in that stamp?

No!

Why not?

Two words: Stanley Gibbons :idea: :idea: :idea:

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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by hatter »

Hi I posted this on Stanley Gibbons share price thread where this topic is also being discussed
Post by hatter » 10 Jun 2021 00:42

Don't have a clue what it will cost yet per 'share' though, or even the detail of what they are offering.
Rigs, please tell us all when SG tell you.

Fascinated to know how this can work.

I note and agree with Glen's comments about marketing value of email addresses.

But at $8.3M to cover the loan they need 83,000 folk at $100. Or pro rata.

and the marketing nous to get the $s / email address :roll:
hopefully Rigs will enlighten us all when SG contact him
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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by prtnz17 »

This is an interesting question, and I answered yes for financial reasons. But and it would be a big BUT, it would depend on who was offering the product and what the outcome was to be. For example, Silver Lake a venture capital firm wants to buy shares in New Zealand Rugby and the All Blacks, but given their history there is some doubt as to the true nature of their investment, it sure isn't purely for altruistic purposes, they will want a profit somewhere.

Given SG's current management I wouldn't, but given what Glen proposed I would more than likely consider it, especially if it was an item such as some of the high value "Roos that I can't affrod. It's like buying shares in a major company management skill and knowledge make a big difference to "share" performance, poorly run companies or companies that make bad decisions end up losing money, so if I were to invest in a share of a stamp I would like my investment to be managed by someone with knowledge of stamps and of financial management, not some snake oil salesman.

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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by maxden »

Yes. It might be a bit of fun to own a part of philatelic history.

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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by polisciguy2011 »

I voted "No for philatelic reasons" but I'd also have voted no for financial reasons if permitted. Philatelically speaking, I wouldn't feel like the stamp was part of "my" collection if there was shared ownership. When I collect, I want to be able to place the stamp, piece, or cover into my albums; it gives me a sense of satisfaction to see a set or page be completed, and I feel like I've accomplished something with my collecting, no matter how small a collector I may be. Owning a fractional share of a stamp, even something unique like the 1c British Guiana magenta, just wouldn't give me that same feeling (assuming I collected British Guiana or rarities in general).

Financially speaking, it just doesn't feel like a good investment to me. The resale value of a share has a huge ?? factor hanging over it, especially if there are a large number of shares on the market, and the only real market is going to be other collectors, suggesting they may struggle to fully subscribe the offering. I can't imagine it becoming a part of my investment portfolio given the uncharted nature of it all.

But I respect those who think differently! I can see why part ownership might appeal to people who either collect the area or who want to feel they have a piece of philatelic history to their name. Just not my particular cup of tea!
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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by ottawasteve »

No, for a few reasons.

First is philatelic. Even though I appreciate the value of my collectIon, I collect for non-financial reasons, so just do not want to wade into the stamps-as-an-investment-vehicle world.

Second, I cannot imagine that the BG magenta has room to move upwards in value. The same goes for a lot of the classics, like Cottonreels or the Mauritius primitives. I would be investing high, like going after Google or bitcoins now. I could imagine, though, someone starting a fund based on an up and coming area...maybe China or even Australian states. I would still not invest, but I could understand the rationale.

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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by Waffle »

Under no circumstances would I buy a share in this or any other stamp. If it is not mine outright, I have NO say in what happens to it! Perhaps they will put it in a shredder and send each shareholder a tiny fragment.
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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by luvthecmonwealth »

Reminds me of a Ponzi or pyramid scheme where any “profit” flows from the bottom upwards, so I think I’ll stick to investing my money in good quality early Canadian and KGVI stamps.
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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by satsuma »

Tell them they're dreaming.

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Re: Would you buy a share in a stamp?

Post by briggia »

gregbear61 wrote:
10 Jun 2021 01:53
If they included timeshare then who knows - it might be fun to pop it the stock-book for a week :D
:lol: Just about the only reason that I might consider it. Not much point owning something and not being able to see it in the flesh as it were.

It’s just so improbable. It’s not like owning a share in a racehorse that you at least have a chance of multiple returns and the enjoyment of seeing it run.

Desperate marketing ploy by SG :!:

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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by Rigs »

Only a fool slams the door on a deal before listening to its terms.

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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by satsuma »

Nah.

You've got to want the subject of the deal before there's any point to listening.

For example, it doesn't matter what the terms are; I'm not interested in a seat on Elon Musk's first passenger space voyage.

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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by Rigs »

satsuma wrote:
10 Jun 2021 20:17
Nah.

You've got to want the subject of the deal before there's any point to listening.

For example, it doesn't matter what the terms are; I'm not interested in a seat on Elon Musk's first passenger space voyage.
Well that’s a relevant and logical analogy isn’t it?

So your saying buying a share in a valuable stamp is risking your life?

Or, what are you saying exactly?

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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by satsuma »

My statement was quite clear, I have no interest in such a deal whatever the terms.

If you want to fault my example, which wasn't an analogy, so be it.

Personally, the only value I can see in owning such a part share is to poseurs, and to those who cannot distinguish between the worth and the value of a thing.

Any possible deal would be little more than an hopeful upmarket version of pitching an offer to ebay bunnies.

Do you like that analogy?

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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by maxden »

Speaking as a poseur I wouldn't mind a trip on Elon Musk's rocket. However as I can't afford it maybe a miniscule share in the stamp would appeal to me. It may not make finacial sense (need to see the terms) but it has a certain panache.

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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by Rigs »

satsuma wrote:
10 Jun 2021 21:00
My statement was quite clear, I have no interest in such a deal whatever the terms.
As I said above, only a fool slams the door on a deal before listening to its terms.

Thank you for confirming that.

I suggest you stick to your semantics and big debate about what constitutes an analogy vs an example - pitch your meagre retirement income to it if you must.

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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by norvic »

Rigs wrote:
10 Jun 2021 21:48
satsuma wrote:
10 Jun 2021 21:00
My statement was quite clear, I have no interest in such a deal whatever the terms.
As I said above, only a fool slams the door on a deal before listening to its terms.

Thank you for confirming that.

I suggest you stick to your semantics and big debate about what constitutes an analogy vs an example - pitch your meagre retirement income to it if you must.

It’s quite logical to slam the door on a deal which is of no interest, whatever the terms.

For instance, I could enter a competition in which the prize is non-transferable. If that prize is scuba-diving, then I wouldn’t enter because I can’t swim.

If the prize was a trip to India in the next 12 months, I would also decline.

So whatever the terms of the offer (other than that I knew it was non-transferable) it is quite logical and reasonably to save my time and/or entry fee.
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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by Rigs »

norvic wrote:
10 Jun 2021 22:21
Rigs wrote:
10 Jun 2021 21:48
satsuma wrote:
10 Jun 2021 21:00
My statement was quite clear, I have no interest in such a deal whatever the terms.
As I said above, only a fool slams the door on a deal before listening to its terms.

Thank you for confirming that.

I suggest you stick to your semantics and big debate about what constitutes an analogy vs an example - pitch your meagre retirement income to it if you must.
It’s quite logical to slam the door on a deal which is of no interest, whatever the terms.
You think it’s logical, I say it’s foolish.

But I guess we all admire the terms of Brexit, an outstanding British negotiation, before the door was slammed.

Oops, sorry. that’s another thread. :)

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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by satsuma »

Rigs wrote:
10 Jun 2021 21:48
satsuma wrote:
10 Jun 2021 21:00
My statement was quite clear, I have no interest in such a deal whatever the terms.
As I said above, only a fool slams the door on a deal before listening to its terms.

Thank you for confirming that.

I suggest you stick to your semantics and big debate about what constitutes an analogy vs an example - pitch your meagre retirement income to it if you must.
You have no idea about my retirement income, nor in fact if I am retired.

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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by The Pom »

MODERATOR COMMENT

Please stick to the topic. Any further off-topic posts will be deleted.
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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by gavin-h »

Rigs wrote:
10 Jun 2021 20:06
Only a fool slams the door on a deal before listening to its terms.
Or considering WHO is establishing those terms. :idea: :idea: :idea:

With the name St**ley Gi**ons floating the idea, I don't need to know the details. I'd take a fast-bowler's run up to slam that particular door. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by norvic »

gavin-h wrote:
11 Jun 2021 00:34
Rigs wrote:
10 Jun 2021 20:06
Only a fool slams the door on a deal before listening to its terms.
Or considering WHO is establishing those terms. :idea: :idea: :idea:

With the name St**ley Gi**ons floating the idea, I don't need to know the details. I'd take a fast-bowler's run up to slam that particular door. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by jwk »

As to the question: No.
To me it all looks a bit too much like a "Buy a square foot of land in Scotland and become a Scottish Laird!" scheme.

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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by AMark »

This might be a silly question, but would anyone buy shares in Stanley Gibbons (The owners of the world's most expensive stamp)?
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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by Waffle »

I am unsure if that would be a sensible investment seeing as how they or their backers have shelled out 8.3 million pounds for an old piece of paper, even if it is very rare. I certainly would not wish to be a SG shareholder.
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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by Number-O-Ne »

jwk wrote:
11 Jun 2021 05:30
As to the question: No.
To me it all looks a bit too much like a "Buy a square foot of land in Scotland and become a Scottish Laird!" scheme.
I have to admit, "Invest in a cask of Scotch Whisky" ads make a lot more sense.

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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by DigitalPhilatelist »

I posted a mini-response to this From the 1c Magenta to Crypto Stamps.

I don't see this going well. :(
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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by ozwire »

I would be very wary of "investing" in "shares" in this stamp on the expectation of sharing in the return when eventually sold (for a profit??). The odds of Stanley Gibbons being solvent in 5 years is quite low. Try getting your share back if the asset is tossed into the liquidation.....

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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by luvthecmonwealth »

DigitalPhilatelist wrote:
11 Jun 2021 10:49
I posted a mini-response to this From the 1c Magenta to Crypto Stamps.

I don't see this going well. :(
I can’t either to be honest.
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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by polisciguy2011 »

DigitalPhilatelist wrote:
11 Jun 2021 10:49
I posted a mini-response to this From the 1c Magenta to Crypto Stamps.

I don't see this going well. :(
Good article, from someone who didn't know a ton about SG's previous investment scheme. Definitely agree with the conclusion here.
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Re: Would you buy a part share in a very valuable stamp?

Post by Global Administrator »

DigitalPhilatelist wrote:
11 Jun 2021 10:49
I posted a mini-response to this From the 1c Magenta to Crypto Stamps.

The Golden Rule of good journalism is to post facts. :)

''With a market cap of £13.94m, the purchase of a USD$7m stamp equates to nearly a third of the total value of Stanley Gibbons.''


Twice in this piece you say the stamp just sold for $US7 million to SG. That would be true if Sotheby's but not add on a cheeky $US1.3 million in buyers fees and including the outrageous 1% extra change to cover their ostentatious New York building that they charge buyers for.

To get back to the boring FACTS .... this stamp cost Gibbons at least $8.307 million plus insurance fees etc. And doubtless the legal import taxes or VAT on top when imported into the UK.

I assume the system is that UK taxes are required to be paid on entry to the UK making the true cost to SG with even a low 1% all risk transit insurance cost, close to $US10 million cost to SG. Not ''$US7 million'' as you state. :lol:

As I understand it, when sold VAT inclusive to a UK buyer, SG claims back the input, But a sale is not sale until someone buys it, so it sits in their books as a $US9-10 million purchase. Not a $US7 million one. Small difference. :D
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