Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by ikanek »

rodneyf wrote: 23 Aug 2021 09:09 Is this NAWANAGAR: 1877 Typeset or 1880 Typeset ?
The characteristic of these stamps is quite different to what Stanley Gibbons shows.
a. The colours appear to be varying shades of deep mauve. Could the age affect the fading of these colours.
b. The stamps have all thick horizontal and vertical framelines when compared to the 1880 issues.
c. The stamps are 15mm wide and
d. Typeset black
e. Wove paper and s.
f. The stamps are 1 doc, 2 doc and 3 doc in order from left to right.
g. The 2 doc stamp has a feint oval intaglio seal strike

Can someone confirm the which year these stamps relate to and their Stanley Gibbons Reference No.
Does one know the value of these stamps?
Image
Image
These three stamps are very crude forgeries therefore they differ in so many details as you mentioned.
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Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by rajk »

Can any one help how many dies were used to print this Hyderabad state ½ anna yellow envelope
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by rodneyf »

ikanek wrote: 24 Aug 2021 00:50
rodneyf wrote: 23 Aug 2021 09:09 Is this NAWANAGAR: 1877 Typeset or 1880 Typeset ?
The characteristic of these stamps is quite different to what Stanley Gibbons shows.
a. The colours appear to be varying shades of deep mauve. Could the age affect the fading of these colours.
b. The stamps have all thick horizontal and vertical framelines when compared to the 1880 issues.
c. The stamps are 15mm wide and
d. Typeset black
e. Wove paper and s.
f. The stamps are 1 doc, 2 doc and 3 doc in order from left to right.
g. The 2 doc stamp has a feint oval intaglio seal strike

Can someone confirm the which year these stamps relate to and their Stanley Gibbons Reference No.
Does one know the value of these stamps?
Image
Image
These three stamps are very crude forgeries therefore they differ in so many details as you mentioned.
Many thanks for your determination - appreciate your contribution to this site and collectors
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by DarrenK »



I've just listed a lot of Indian States on EBay as I don't collect them but ended up with a large collection/accumulation of them.


While listing I was running through Stanley Gibbons and getting a rough idea of value. I found this Jaipur Official stamp and there are two which are very similar. SG O8 and SG O12. This appears to be O8 due to the serifs on the fonts of the overprint. The stamp wasn't released without an overprint. Considering its catalogue value I would like to get an opinion on it. Is it genuine?

Jaipur Offical_0001.jpg

Jaipur Offical_0002.jpg


Thank you.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by 22028 »

I just noted the (by me) yellow highlighted note in the auction catalogue
Gems of Indian States
1864 –1950
377th Heinrich Köhler Auction
Tuesday, 21st September 2021, from 9.00 a.m.

https://www.heinrich-koehler.de/de/pdf-kataloge

Seiten aus 377_Indian-States_web.jpg
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by indianchariots »

DarrenK wrote: 03 Sep 2021 01:00

I've just listed a lot of Indian States on EBay as I don't collect them but ended up with a large collection/accumulation of them.


While listing I was running through Stanley Gibbons and getting a rough idea of value. I found this Jaipur Official stamp and there are two which are very similar. SG O8 and SG O12. This appears to be O8 due to the serifs on the fonts of the overprint. The stamp wasn't released without an overprint. Considering its catalogue value I would like to get an opinion on it. Is it genuine?


Image


Image


Thank you.
Hey DarrenK

Glad to see a new entry in Indian States. This is a perfect platform to share your doubts or even new acquisitions for an opinion.

While what you have shared is a beautiful stamp, but I'm sorry to break your bubble, as it isn't a 1Rupee value. It rather is 1Anna. I don't see your fault in it, as the design of the stamp no where reads 1Anna in English.

This actually is an SGO3c - 1Anna Rose Red, with a market value of just $1. Apologies. Didn't wish to be a bearer of bad news. But it is what it is you see!

Differentiating between the two types of Service overprints is fairly easy as the Type I is a very thin one and the Type II is very bold.
Screenshot_20210902-230659_cropped.png

1R values SGO8 and SGO12 Used are quite rare indeed. Just as their catalogue value suggests. They often sell for a full Cat value. Sometimes even over them.

Both the values 1Anna and 1Rupee were Issued even without overprints as normal stamps in 1928. They were later overprinted as Officials. Normal stamps happen to be rarer than the official ones.

Last but not the least, your stamp is Genuine by all means. And they were never gummed.

Trust this answers your queries. Do not hesitate to ask for anything more if your doubt still persists.

Happy collecting!
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by DarrenK »



Thank you for you quick and precise answer indianchariots.

I had a mixture of stamps and the best value of the others was around £60. The SG doesn't give a great guide to the differences between the stamps and no pictures. Not being able to read anything (usefully) that isn't English doesn't help.

I may have some more questions as I'm tackling the other States over the next few days. Is the writing Sanskrit?

Darren
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by ikanek »

DarrenK wrote: 03 Sep 2021 11:40

I may have some more questions as I'm tackling the other States over the next few days. Is the writing Sanskrit?

Darren
If you think the script on the Jaipur stamp, it is Devanagari.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by RogerE »

ikanek wrote: 04 Sep 2021 01:08
DarrenK wrote: 03 Sep 2021 11:40

I may have some more questions as I'm tackling the other States over the next few days. Is the writing Sanskrit?

Darren
If you think the script on the Jaipur stamp, it is Devanagari.
Thanks ikanek for that clarification.

DarrenK, please check out this link to the Stamps and Languages thread — it's almost as if it was the tailor made answer for you, before you ever asked your question!
https://stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=90529&start=787
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by ikanek »

ikanek wrote: 04 Sep 2021 01:08
DarrenK wrote: 03 Sep 2021 11:40

I may have some more questions as I'm tackling the other States over the next few days. Is the writing Sanskrit?

Darren
If you think the script on the Jaipur stamp, it is Devanagari.
Now, I realized that my response had been incomplete. The right side value panel contains inscription in Urdu.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by RogerE »

Thanks ikanek.

So DarrenK, you can also find a good number of posts about Urdu in the Stamps and Languages thread, starting at
https://stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=90529&start=125
.
Others can be accessed by replacing "125" in that link with any of the following:
130, 132, 135, 137, 141, 142, 461
.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by indianchariots »

DarrenK wrote: 03 Sep 2021 11:40

Thank you for you quick and precise answer indianchariots.

I had a mixture of stamps and the best value of the others was around £60. The SG doesn't give a great guide to the differences between the stamps and no pictures. Not being able to read anything (usefully) that isn't English doesn't help.

I may have some more questions as I'm tackling the other States over the next few days. Is the writing Sanskrit?

Darren

image.jpg
1Anna on left & 1Rupee on right

That's both the values in discussion together. Your 1A is a Type I overprint and the 1R value is a Type II. Hope you get the difference.

And as Jiri rightly mentioned, its Devanagari एक आना in the left tablet and Urdu on right.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by indianchariots »

0018500533.jpg

Jaipur 1928 Chariot Type I officials for your understanding DarrenK. This might be of future help. Contains all the values.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by DarrenK »



A pool of information here that is very deep.

Thank you so much for all the additional information. It is very much appreciated.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by DarrenK »



Back again.

This first one is from Duttia (Datia) but given the number and variety and also the catalogue values maybe a fake?

Indian State_0002.jpg

Indian State_0005.jpg


This one is from Las Bela. There are not many stamps from this state but appears to be many different printings.

Indian State_0001.jpg

Indian State_0004.jpg
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

Darren - these both appear genuine.

The Duttia is SG 16 or 16a. The stamp is unused - the blue control mark is not a cancellation.

The Las Bela is harder to pin down as to a catalogue number, but is one of the SG1-7 group printed relatively close together. The paper colour of these is hard to be sure about, but this might be SG 1.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by DarrenK »



That is good news Peter. Thank you.

I'll have a close look at the catalogue, from memory SG1 is listed a "Thick Paper". Do you know the thickness by chance or is it just thicker than the others?

Thank you for your information. Really appreciate it on an area I know virtually nothing about.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by Lundy »

Hi there, in a collection I bought I found this - I think it is an Indian States stamp possibly Jammu and Kashmir but it is very lightly printed and smudged... It may also be a forgery! Seems to be on sort of laid paper....

It was in a small glassine with a note on it but I am struggling to read that.... maybe No. G5 1 anna brown orange 4/- unused? not sure of rest...
Old India States Jammu and Kashmir
Old India States Jammu and Kashmir
Old India States Jammu and Kashmir
Old India States Jammu and Kashmir
Grateful for any help identifying this

Lundy :)
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by Chris111 »

Hi All, I've found a puzzle in a bundle of Cochin stamps I purchased recently. The 1913 service overprint on the 4p green, SG O2. Problems:

- it is a light blue, not the expected and issued green
- the right hand value tablet is green

Otherwise the stamp is as expected, with watermark sideways, perf 14. There is a little stamped image on the back at bottom left, which may or may not be relevant.

Any thoughts?

thanks ...
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by rakeshk »

Hi,

This is quite commonly seen with Cochin stamps, its caused by oxidation, causing green stamps to turn blue, mainly due to the condition in which it was stored - its called a "changeling". This is not a variety, its similar to toning and other environmental factors affecting stamps.

Most commonly seen are green stamps turning blue.

Here's a stamp boards thread on the topic -https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=35849
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by Lundy »

Sorry. just a bump on this - or is it too ugly to be identified? in the middle I half see Freddie Mercury!

Thanks

Lundy :D
Lundy wrote: 12 Sep 2021 08:27 Hi there, in a collection I bought I found this - I think it is an Indian States stamp possibly Jammu and Kashmir but it is very lightly printed and smudged... It may also be a forgery! Seems to be on sort of laid paper....

It was in a small glassine with a note on it but I am struggling to read that.... maybe No. G5 1 anna brown orange 4/- unused? not sure of rest...
Image

Image

Grateful for any help identifying this

Lundy :)
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

Lundy:

This is a Jammu & Kashmir ‘old rectangular’ 1 anna for use in Kashmir, SG 94-96. The exact shade is hard to determine as these often get oxidised to a darker shade.

Your image is upside down ;)
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by Lundy »

Thanks Peter,

Really appreciate that I can now add it to my album in the right place! Apologies for it being upside down too- these are very unfamiliar stamps to me

Thanks again

Lundy
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by abhisri »

Lundy:

I stead of G5, it might be 95. So yours copy might be SG95
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by bob stanley »

Lundy,

Your glassine envelope reads: No. 95 1anna brown orange 4/- unused Issued 1867. You had it substantially right.

SG # 95 was first issued in 1868 - but close enough.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by norvic »

If this is in the wrong place, please arrange for it to be elsewhere, but I thought it might be of interest to people who collect the Indian States.

India's misunderstood maharajahs

Interesting article provides a “more accurate” picture of the maharajas than that painted by reporting in colonial times. Extract:
The fact, however, is that princely territories - spread over two-fifths of the Indian subcontinent and not under direct colonial control but linked through treaties and agreements with the Raj as vassals - featured rulers who were anything but the stereotype of glitter and parade.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by 22028 »

A friend of mine is having this Bhopal cover and would be interested to know from where to where it was sent. Any info is appreciated.

Bhopal.jpg

Bhopal2.jpg
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by RogerE »

The address on the Bhopal piece shown by 22028 is in Urdu script.
The block of stamps is inverted relative to the manuscript address.

That is the extent of my very limited ability to help with this piece. I'm sure there are Stampboards members well able to read the Urdu details, so I leave it to them to add more information...
.
Bhopal.jpg
.
Bhopal2.jpg
.
The date might be 10 April:
Screen Shot 2021-10-07 at 1.58.14 pm.png
.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by HalfpennyYellow »

I recently acquired my first stamp from Idar, and it is one of the 1¼a postal fiscals of 1945. Looking at Tony's illustrated listing of Idar stamps, it seems to be the blue green shade (SG F5b) and not the yellow green one (SG F5).

The stamp seems to be genuine to me, but I'm far from an expert in the Indian states so would it be possible to confirm its authenticity and shade please?

The blue green is catalogued at £110 mint / £180 used in SG (2015), as opposed to the yellow green which is £25 mint. Is there really such a difference in the stamps' value, and what would be the approximate retail value for my stamp (assuming that SG catalogue values are inflated as usual)?

The stamp seems to be unused but it has paper adhesion on the back (not sure if it's from an envelope/document or an album page).

Idar postal fiscal.jpg
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

I’m pretty sure the Idar stamp is genuine.

The paper adhesion on the back is probably the thin interleaving that was between the panes of stamps in the booklets.

I always find it difficult to comment on shades because there are so many variables that determine how it looks on a screen.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by DarrenK »

Back to sorting out more Indian State stamps.

Tonight I found one stamp that may be a listed error and another that I can't find listed with the extra overprint.


I'm wondering if this is SG 22C (CHUCRRAM where the "K" has become an "R" ? It is a very fine line across the top but I can't find any examples online.

Trav SG 22C.jpg


This one has the "SERVICE" overprint and a "SPECIAL" overprint as well. I can't see a listing for that.

Travancore_0001.jpg

Travancore_0002.jpg


Please note: I was looking under "OFFICIALS" to find this stamp and I re read the catalogue and found it was the last stamp in the "normal" stamp section, SG77. The "SPECIAL" was stamped on there to cancel out the "SERVICE" overprint apparently.

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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by ikanek »

DarrenK wrote: 08 Oct 2021 00:40 Back to sorting out more Indian State stamps.

Tonight I found one stamp that may be a listed error and another that I can't find listed with the extra overprint.


I'm wondering if this is SG 22C (CHUCRRAM where the "K" has become an "R" ? It is a very fine line across the top but I can't find any examples online.


Image

No, it is not the listed variety.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

This is the Travancore 'CHUCRRAM' variety on the unoverprinted stamp.

Stamps388.jpeg
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by DarrenK »



Thanks for the excellent example Peter.

Very clear.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by rodneyf »

SHAHPURA Overprinted "Rajasthan"
Shahpura 1948 1 anna Postally used Fiscal. Pin perf: 7. Hand stamped "RAJASTHAN" in deep violet. Size 23mm X 22mm, wove paper, fiscally used. Die II - Tip of character resembling "J" is straight. Colour : red ( variations of red seen on such stamps). Inside diameter of sun measures 4mm. Hanuman’s left hand appears to touch the sun’s rays. Manuscript in feint blue across stamp. RARE- Not listed by Stanley Gibbons.

Any views on whether:
1- Stamp genuine.
2- Die 1 or Die II
3 - Perforation
4- Does Hanuman's left hand touching the sun's ray differ in Die 1 or II.
5 - Hand stamp more black than deep violet
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by HalfpennyYellow »

peterh wrote: 07 Oct 2021 21:47 I’m pretty sure the Idar stamp is genuine.

The paper adhesion on the back is probably the thin interleaving that was between the panes of stamps in the booklets.

I always find it difficult to comment on shades because there are so many variables that determine how it looks on a screen.
Thanks Peter! :D

It's interesting that most Idar stamps were apparently only issued in booklets and not sheets.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

rodneyf wrote: 08 Oct 2021 23:52 SHAHPURA Overprinted "Rajasthan"
Shahpura 1948 1 anna Postally used Fiscal. Pin perf: 7. Hand stamped "RAJASTHAN" in deep violet. Size 23mm X 22mm, wove paper, fiscally used. Die II - Tip of character resembling "J" is straight. Colour : red ( variations of red seen on such stamps). Inside diameter of sun measures 4mm. Hanuman’s left hand appears to touch the sun’s rays. Manuscript in feint blue across stamp. RARE- Not listed by Stanley Gibbons.

Any views on whether:
1- Stamp genuine.
2- Die 1 or Die II
3 - Perforation
4- Does Hanuman's left hand touching the sun's ray differ in Die 1 or II.
5 - Hand stamp more black than deep violet
Image
These are something of a minefield. See here and follow the discussion if you have not seen it:

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=4117141#p4117141

Since then, it seems that Sandeep Jaiswal has revised his opinion on the type he referred to as a forgery, calling it 'Die II' subsequently.

Your example does appear to be 'Die II', if that means anything.

Unless on cover, manuscript cancellations on these are assumed to be a revenue usage.

As you say, this stamp with the Rajasthan handsamp is not listed in Gibbons.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by rodneyf »

Thanks Peter.
Appreciate your knowledge and analysis. The reference you provided was very useful. I have tried researching this stamp and could not find any example of a Shahpura stamp with pin perforation 7. Is it pin perforation :7?. Would like some one to tell me what the feint blue script across the stamps means. Appreciate the opinion that it is revenue usage as it is not on a cover.
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Puzzling unlisted Travancore perforation varieties

Post by Chris111 »

I’ve come across perforation varieties in the later stamps of Travancore that are not listed on Gibbons. Neither have I found anyone selling these. I cannot believe I’ve made some new discoveries so can anyone explain what there is no interest shown in these? Do they have value? Am I missing something?

Here are the details:

SG74 4ca on 3/4ch Brown: P 12.5 x 11
SG75 8a on 6ch Scarlet: P 12 x 12.5
SG O97 1½ch Scarlet: 12.5 x 12
SG O104 3/4ch Brown: 12 x 11
SG O106 2ca on 1½ch Scarlet: 12.5 x 11

I've pondered if these might be re-perforated but don't know what I should be looking for. I'd guess that re-perforated stamps would be smaller than genuine, but my copies are not, their size is similar to genuine.

Just so no one thinks that I’m confusing these with compound perfs I’ve included photos of SG 74 under a perforation gauge as an example.

Thanks in advance …
Attachments
trav1.jpg
trav2.jpg
trav3.jpg
tray4.jpg
trav5.jpg
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Re: Puzzling unlisted Travancore perforation varieties

Post by ikanek »

Chris111 wrote: 10 Oct 2021 22:32 I’ve come across perforation varieties in the later stamps of Travancore that are not listed on Gibbons. Neither have I found anyone selling these. I cannot believe I’ve made some new discoveries so can anyone explain what there is no interest shown in these? Do they have value? Am I missing something?

Here are the details:

SG74 4ca on 3/4ch Brown: P 12.5 x 11
SG75 8a on 6ch Scarlet: P 12 x 12.5
SG O97 1½ch Scarlet: 12.5 x 12
SG O104 3/4ch Brown: 12 x 11
SG O106 2ca on 1½ch Scarlet: 12.5 x 11
Chris, all these perforation varieties are listed in Gibbons under the heading "compound perforation". There are usually more varieties and I have some stamps with more than 6 different compound perforations.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by DarrenK »



There are a few choices for this one.
Stamp collectors are always optimists when it comes to finds so I will ask for peoples thoughts first.
Is it safe to soak in water? I would like to remove the hinge remains.
I have added a small part of the SG catalogue as a reference.

Thank you.

Cochin SG.jpg

Cochin_0001.jpg

Cochin_0002.jpg
Always interested in trading German material especially post war period.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by rodneyf »

JAMMU & KASHMIR
PRE-STAMP PERIOD
DIFFERENT TYPES OF FRANKS

1860’s? pre-stamp native J&K envelopes with a good strike of three different franks and local manuscript on front and rear of covers. Covers & paper appear to be of the period.
Cover 1 – The Frank is rectangular in shape in a dull orange red and measures 23 mm in height by 28 mm in width. The impression is somewhat smudged. I cannot find reference of this frank.
Cover 2 – The Frank is more oblong in shape and measures 25 mm in heigh by 27mm in width. Does have an outer ring to the seal. Does show an indication of truncated corners. I cannot find reference of this frank
Cover 3- The Frank seems more rectangular with truncated corners in dull purple . It measures 23mm in height by 27mm wide. It does not look exactly like The Kashmir Frank illustrated in Kashmirstamps.com. That measures 23mm in height by 25mm wide.
I would appreciate if anyone can:
1. Draw light on the three different types of Franks.
2. If and what manuscript dates in local inscriptions are noted alongside or at the back of the cover. The dating of these covers may give an insight as to when they were used.
3. Are these Jammu & Kashmir Franks a notable rarity
Attachments
J&K Pre Stamp Covers _ Back (3 covers) (back).jpg
J&K Pre Stamp Covers _ Front (3 covers) (front).jpg
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

DarrenK wrote: 24 Oct 2021 00:14

There are a few choices for this one.
Stamp collectors are always optimists when it comes to finds so I will ask for peoples thoughts first.
Is it safe to soak in water? I would like to remove the hinge remains.
I have added a small part of the SG catalogue as a reference.

Thank you.


Image


Image


Image

Looks like SG 1b to me, it's not laid paper.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

rodneyf wrote: 24 Oct 2021 21:58 JAMMU & KASHMIR
PRE-STAMP PERIOD
DIFFERENT TYPES OF FRANKS

1860’s? pre-stamp native J&K envelopes with a good strike of three different franks and local manuscript on front and rear of covers. Covers & paper appear to be of the period.
Cover 1 – The Frank is rectangular in shape in a dull orange red and measures 23 mm in height by 28 mm in width. The impression is somewhat smudged. I cannot find reference of this frank.
Cover 2 – The Frank is more oblong in shape and measures 25 mm in heigh by 27mm in width. Does have an outer ring to the seal. Does show an indication of truncated corners. I cannot find reference of this frank
Cover 3- The Frank seems more rectangular with truncated corners in dull purple . It measures 23mm in height by 27mm wide. It does not look exactly like The Kashmir Frank illustrated in Kashmirstamps.com. That measures 23mm in height by 25mm wide.
I would appreciate if anyone can:
1. Draw light on the three different types of Franks.
2. If and what manuscript dates in local inscriptions are noted alongside or at the back of the cover. The dating of these covers may give an insight as to when they were used.
3. Are these Jammu & Kashmir Franks a notable rarity
Image
Image
I may be wrong on these, but I am doubtful that these are from Jammu & Kashmir. The last one does have some similarities to the Jammu frank, and is the approximate colour, but I think it is more likely that these are all from Jaipur rather than Jammu & Kashmir.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by boban76 »

DarrenK wrote: 24 Oct 2021 00:14

There are a few choices for this one.
Stamp collectors are always optimists when it comes to finds so I will ask for peoples thoughts first.
Is it safe to soak in water? I would like to remove the hinge remains.
I have added a small part of the SG catalogue as a reference.

Thank you.


Image


Image


Image
Darren

its 100% safe to soak this issue as they are on somewhat thicker paper; dont forget to dry them on a flat surface under weight
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by sagi2917 »

Please help to confirm if these Jasdan stamps are genuine


Front
JasdanF.jpg
Back
JasdanB.jpg
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by sagi2917 »

Also requesting your help to confirm if this Nandgaon stamp is genuine

NandgaonF.jpg
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by indianchariots »

rodneyf wrote: 24 Oct 2021 21:58 JAMMU & KASHMIR
PRE-STAMP PERIOD
DIFFERENT TYPES OF FRANKS

1860’s? pre-stamp native J&K envelopes with a good strike of three different franks and local manuscript on front and rear of covers. Covers & paper appear to be of the period.
Cover 1 – The Frank is rectangular in shape in a dull orange red and measures 23 mm in height by 28 mm in width. The impression is somewhat smudged. I cannot find reference of this frank.
Cover 2 – The Frank is more oblong in shape and measures 25 mm in heigh by 27mm in width. Does have an outer ring to the seal. Does show an indication of truncated corners. I cannot find reference of this frank
Cover 3- The Frank seems more rectangular with truncated corners in dull purple . It measures 23mm in height by 27mm wide. It does not look exactly like The Kashmir Frank illustrated in Kashmirstamps.com. That measures 23mm in height by 25mm wide.
I would appreciate if anyone can:
1. Draw light on the three different types of Franks.
2. If and what manuscript dates in local inscriptions are noted alongside or at the back of the cover. The dating of these covers may give an insight as to when they were used.
3. Are these Jammu & Kashmir Franks a notable rarity
Image
Image

Hello rodneyf

Peter is right in his observation. These are all Jaipur State pre-stamp covers and aren't related to the Kashmir state.

First and third cover is an Official Cover or sometimes what's known as a "Service Cover". Rectangular seal that see is found only on Official covers. Denoted by the word "Karsarkar" in devanagri on such covers. This word is even a part of the letters on the seals.

Second cover which bears a circular impression is a private correspondence. Both the seals carry a franking power of 1/2 Anna, which was the letter rate. Occasionally you will notice them impressed in Black colour instead of shades of Red. Those are Unpaid / Berang postmarks. Again carrying a franking power of 1/2 Anna.

Deciphering dates is often difficult on such covers as none of these seals used to be dated cancellations. Dated cancellations came into effect in Jaipur's Postal History only after 1904 or the Stamp era. These covers are all dated pre-1900 usually. Opening the letters one can find dates being mentioned at the end close to the signatures of the sender.

While they aren't worth much, they form an interesting study material. Value about $5 each. Trust this helps.

Happy collecting
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by peterh »

sagi2917 wrote: 25 Oct 2021 04:19 Please help to confirm if these Jasdan stamps are genuine


Front

Image

Back

Image
These look genuine to me. SG 5.
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Re: Banging the drum for the Uglies - discuss Indian States stamps

Post by kelliegirl33 »

I don't really know much about these stamps. I just learned what the " uglies " stamps really were. I am going through stamps that I inherited and noticed that I have some of these. Not sure if their all legit...but this is what I have...


IMG_20211024_141025460~2.jpg
IMG_20211024_141224399~2.jpg
IMG_20211024_141351142~2.jpg
IMG_20211024_141444065~2.jpg
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