Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thread

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by The Pom »

Thanks Bunge. I had a senior moment & managed to combine Redmyre & Strathfield into a new place called Strathyre...
Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by eharper »

I think this a Victorian numeral 30 but on a South Australia stamp. I suppose the stamp and cancel could both be fake? ---- Edward Smith
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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by Bunge »

eharper wrote:I think this a Victorian numeral 30 but on a South Australia stamp. I suppose the stamp and cancel could both be fake? ---- Edward Smith
Image
Hi Edward, wrong on both counts, it's a New South Wales stamp, it's written on the stamp !! Secondly it's a NSW numerical cancel..

30 ~ Camden
Type 1B
Rated S (31 to 49 copies recorded)

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by eharper »

Thanks, I should know better than to post while distracted by other things. It's good that the postmark is scarce but too bad about the horrible cutting job on the stamp. --- Edward Smith

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by Global Administrator »

Saw this and assumed it was 116 of NSW. Looked exactly like a rays 116.

However reading Freeman 118 makes more sense - even though Hugh does not record this cancel used on Roos.

Any thoughts? :mrgreen:
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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by mcgooley »

Ashford's 118, known to have been used on KGV, so within period. Still an uncommon usage.
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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by Global Administrator »

Thanks Jenny. :)

Put it into stock as 693JA, as apparently the only use on Kangaroo stamps recorded of NSW numeral cancel 118. As this was an end of 1915 issued Third Watermark Roo, pretty late use on Roos .. mostly seen on 1913 1d Reds etc.
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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by ko1987 »

Hi all,

I have just found these cancels, any information on them?
I assume they are common cancels but admittedly I've become confused the more I read!

Thanks

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by Bunge »

Hi mate, your first 2 are Victorian Barred Numerals

BN 73 of Port Melbourne
3rd Duplex
Not Rated

BN 54 of Kilmore
2nd Duplex
Not Rated


The next 3 are Numerical Cancellations of NSW

1233 of South Woodburn
Type 4B
Not Rated

79 of Coolah
Type 3R16
Not Rated

916 of Boggy Flat
Type 4D2
Rated S (31 to 49 copies recorded)

Cheers Bunge :P
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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by ko1987 »

Thank you Bunge!

That help is much appreciated!
I thought an 'S' rating was between 201-300 copies recorded?


While I'm here, are these also numeral cancels or simply part of the year?

Image
Image



Thanks again,

Kent

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by Kainnikanada »

Kent,

It's the date portion of a roller canceller as seen in this Sydney example below:
Image
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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by ko1987 »

What a clear example, thank you!

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by Bunge »

ko1987 wrote:
I thought an 'S' rating was between 201-300 copies recorded?

Well Kent, I suppose that depends on who writes the catalogue, and in most catalogues 201-300 copies would be "Not Rated", or be rated with perhaps "V" (very common) and that's for 100 + copies..

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by john6625 »

What a great thread this is, thanks to all who contribute.

I have come by a few which I could use a little help with regarding any rarity rating.
Image
239 Dunolly

Image
163(5) Tarneit

Image
MD88 Lake Boga

Image
298 Diggers Rest
I think I have identified these correctly but happy to be corrected. Thanks in advance.
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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by muttly2011 »

john6625,

Your postmarks appear to be

239(4) Dunolly - not rated
1630 (2) Cobram - not rated
1588 (1) Lake Boga - rated RR but "Also in blue, 1894 and 1905" so probably rarer as such.
298(1) Diggers Rest - rated R.

Source: The Barred Numerals of Victoria by Hugh H. Freeman, APR, Published 2018 (Brusden White)
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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by john6625 »

Thanks muttly2011 very appreciated. :D
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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by Balbarrup »

john6625 wrote:
Balbarrup wrote:Hi ,

This postmark is from Tammin Western Australia. I cannot find any further information in regards to type of usage. I would appreciate any feedback.

Kind regards


Image
Hi

I can't see anything in the WA Postal Markings Compendium. It may be a railway strike of some sort as Tammin was one of the original stations when the line was first opened in 1895. (Thanks Wikipedia)
Thanks John. I will Keep Looking
Kind regards
Greg

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by MJ's pet »

Image

1908 Falk PPC ('A Homestead Scene at Armadale WA') to China, 1d with 'TAMMIN/MR11/8/WA' cds (no decade slug), 'SHANGHAI/BR PO' arrival cds.

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Re: South Australia Cancellations

Post by MJ's pet »

BURRUNGULE

Original 1930’s PMG official post office date stamp,
Brass, oak, and steel manufacture, with PMG stamped into the wooden handle,
Complete, and working order, with year dates available from 1930 to 1950’s
Issued to BURRUNGULE post office, (near Mount Gambier), South Australia,
This post office closed in the 1930’s.

On ebay, start $499 or Buy It Now $999.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GPO-DATE-STAMP-circa-1930-BURRUN ... 3571441800

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Re: South Australia Cancellations

Post by MJ's pet »

Six pictures of BURRUNGULE SA cds:

ImageImage
ImageImage
ImageImage

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Re: South Australia Cancellations

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Personally I don't think any PO implements should be made available for sale at any time. They should be either permanently held in Aust. Post or State Philatelic Societies archive storage or destroyed.

In the wrong hands they allow easy creation of faked covers with 100% legitimate cancels.

I do realise they are often from obscure PO's that have been closed rather than major GPO's so they aren't as potentially dangerous, but they are still a problem IMO.
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Re: South Australia Cancellations

Post by MJ's pet »

The South Australia Philatelic Council or one of the many South Australian clubs could buy it and take it off the market of course.

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Re: South Australia Cancellations

Post by mcgooley »

Lakatoi 4 wrote:Personally I don't think any PO implements should be made available for sale at any time. They should be either permanently held in Aust. Post or State Philatelic Societies archive storage or destroyed.

In the wrong hands they allow easy creation of faked covers with 100% legitimate cancels.

I do realise they are often from obscure PO's that have been closed rather than major GPO's so they aren't as potentially dangerous, but they are still a problem IMO.
I'm not sure selling a fully working example is legal... I have seen other cancellers offered for sale without the dateline.
Having said that, I know of about a dozen fully operational Victorian CDS cancellers held in public institutions (mostly historical parks and the like) around the State - got strikes of several of them... Fakers would need to have done an enormous amount of homework to be able to recreate a cover using one of these - and I ain't telling what kind of homework :evil:
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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by Global Administrator »

Might be handy for some members here to save or link to etc -
satsuma wrote:I just came across this interesting site which I thought would be of interest to postmark specialists

https://www.mingor.net/special-interests/post-office.html

Here's an example:

Image

Grass Valley
How about this for a post office? It's just a metal garden shed with an entry door at the rear, a little service window at the front, and a number of private post office boxes. Looks like it's been here since 1986. It has even been included on the State Heritage list. Photo - June 2011
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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by tascollector »

RLMS wrote:This looks to be 198, Ellerslie 1878 - 1905. Or is it 98, Middleton, with a heavy side bar?

Image

If Ellerslie, was the PO on Elerslie Road, Battery Point in Hobart?

Any help would be appreciated.

Richard
If this has not already been answered, it looks like 198, Ellerslie, to me. The PO was located on a minor road NE from Conara, central Northern Tasmania heading towards the township of Ben Lomond ( not the Mountain). Nothing to do with Ellerslie Rd in Battery Point. It opened in 1878.

The numeral one of the rarer 4R numerals according to John Hardinge. The datestamp is rated 3R and known from 15 Jul 1901 to 30 Oct 1905. The numeral was in use until 1899 but as copies are very scarce thats about all is know as far as I am aware. A very nice item.

There are a few obscure post offices in this part of Tasmania. These also include Lagunta initially called Kingston (another confusing name as Kingston was later located south of Hobart).

If you happen to have the Post Mark publication by John Hardinge published last year, you can just see Ellerslie on the front endpaper near the bottom on the right - above Conrara. :-)

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by RLMS »

Tascollector

Many thanks

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Re: South Australia Cancellations

Post by Global Administrator »

MJ's pet wrote:The South Australia Philatelic Council or one of the many South Australian clubs could buy it and take it off the market of course.
Exactly. Did it sell does anyone know?
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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by john6625 »

Hi all.

Just after confirmation that the postmark below does have a rarity rating of 'SS' and not RRRRR as is shown in this thread.
Image
Barred numeral 1933 THALIA
The reason I ask is that is is shown as 'SS' in the other thread.

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=17108

I am sure it is SS but any information is appreciated.

Cheers
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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by muttly2011 »

john6625 wrote:Hi all.

Just after confirmation that the postmark below does have a rarity rating of 'SS' and not RRRRR as is shown in this thread.

Barred numeral 1933 THALIA
Correct - Thalia is rated SS according to 'The Barred Numerals of Victoria', Hugh Freeman, Brusden White, 2018.
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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by john6625 »

Thanks muttly, cheers
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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by johnrcrow »

Having just put on Bushfire Auction a number of basic NSW barred numerals I am now stimulated to reviewing what NSW barred I have.

As a start I am adding some possible rarer items (as assessed by me and the ´bible`) and would appreciate comments - Some I already posted many moons ago but I will show again.

This will help me place stamps with more confidence as to their identity.

I also note that some are difficult, so extra eyes would be beneficial to any assessment since some of the rarer numerals command high prices.

1. Is this a 15 MOLONG 2R20 (3) RRRR or (4) MOLONG 3R16 NR?

Should be easy to answer?

The heavy 15 indicates the RRRR.

So count the rays I hear you say. I make out more than 16...not so easy to assess.

Also the rays are fragmented and irregular, unlike the example of 3R16 given where also the 15 is small.

Opinions welcome.


Image





2. Is this WELLINGTON 16 (3) Type 2R20 RRRR or (4) Type3R16 SS?


In fact having to up enlarged now seems to be a 167!
If 167 best bet is LOUISA CREEK HARGRAVES (2) 3R16.

MAYBE 1 161 ABERDEEN?

HELP NEEDED.



Image







3. Is this the 25 (2) KIAMA 3R12 RRRR? I assume so since it is strikingly different to most barred numerals.


Image







4. Is this 639 JUNCTION POINT (1) RRRRR (not illustrated in book nor description of type).


Looks like a 539 at first impression BUT 529 is a 3R16 (mine shows 12 rays).

All 839 are type 4A.




Image






5. Thought originally this was 550 TOORALE TYPE 3R16 RRRRR (no example in book.

But it is the 560 MT, MACQUARIE NEVILLE TYPE 3R20 not rated. The curved top to six gives it away. Pity.


Image


More fun later.

John

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by johnrcrow »

Mistakes already. I meant:

´Looks like a 539 at first impression BUT 539 is a 3R16 (mine shows 12 rays) in above post`.



6. Is this 1253 BOAMBOLA- GLENBOWER (1) RRRR TYPE 4B?



Image







7. Is this 1688 BECTIVE TYPE 4B RRRR?


Image




8. Is this 1285 PURNAMOOTA RRRRR TYPE 4B?


Image


Image






9. Is this 1231 LAKE BATHURST (1) TYPE 4B RRRR?


Image





10. Is this 1553 KIERAVILLE (1) TYPE 4B RRRR?


Image

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by johnrcrow »

11. Is this 1688 BECTIVE (1) TYPE 4B RRRR?


Image

Image





12. Is this 1749 BUXTON (1) TYPE 4B RRRR? Looks likely.


Image









13. Is this 1886 DARK CORNER (1) TYPE 4B RRRR? Or 1885 KIRKDALE TYPE 4B RRRR?


Image

ENLARGMENT CLICHES IT? 1886!

Image

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by johnrcrow »

14. Is this 1906 KENSINGTON 4B RRRR, a 806 GOOMBARGONA (NNR) or a 906 FITZGERALD´S VALLEY RRRR OR NONE OF THESE?

I think KENSINGTON!


Image

Image

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by johnrcrow »

15. Is this 1318 MARSHALL McMAHON REEF (1) RRRR?[/b




Image












16. Is this 717 MILLIE (2) TYPE 4B S or FIFIELD (1) R?


Image

or LANDSDALE 1712 RRRR?

Not so easy to tell.






17. Is this 1919 FEDERAL. RRRR FOR BOTH SIZES OF 4B.

The part cancel says yes.


Image

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by johnrcrow »

18. Is this 1684 RAMORNIE TYPE 4B RRRR

Handy having 4 stamps to combine cancels!

Image

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by johnrcrow »

Just found this.

19. Is this 762 KEEPIT TYPE 3R12 RRRR or 352 ESBANK LITHGOW 3R12 NR.


MY STAMP (I think a 762 a better example than in book)?

Image



Image from book for 762

Image


Image from book for 752


Image

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by johnrcrow »

20. Any ideas on this one?

I cannot match this to anything in book especially with the distinctive 2?


Image

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by johnrcrow »

A couple more.

21. 1858 and 1927 Barred NSW cancels. Both rated RRRR.


Image

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by johnrcrow »

Some more barred numerals rated RRR.

22. Barred numeral cancels NSW 1481 and 1721 (rated RRR).

Image





23. Barred numeral cancels NSW 1858 and 1927 (rated RRR).



Image




24. Barred numeral cancel NSW 1130 (rated RRR).

Image


I have realised this maybe a 1430 BLAKEHURST RATED RRRRR.





25. Barred numeral cancel NSW 617 (2) (rated RRR).


Image



26. Barred numeral cancel NSW 869 (1) (rated RRR).


Image





27. Barred numeral cancel NSW 433 (1) (rated RRR).


Image

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Re: South Australia Cancellations

Post by MJ's pet »

Global Administrator wrote:
MJ's pet wrote:The South Australia Philatelic Council or one of the many South Australian clubs could buy it and take it off the market of course.
Exactly. Did it sell does anyone know?
Glen's question didn't receive an answer.

I don't know if the BURRUNGULE SA cds sold or not and the link is now dead.

Guessing the price was too steep and it went back to where it came from.

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by MJ's pet »

RMLS wrote:This looks to be 198, Ellerslie 1878 - 1905. Or is it 98, Middleton, with a heavy side bar?
198.

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by rehautala »

Found this (among some others) in a large collection of Australia/States a while back.

Bought the CD on NSW cancels from Glen (as well as many other reference books). Paid for the CD (and probably some of the other materials) with this one find, though I'm in no hurry to sell it. I love cancels on stamps. 5R or not, this is a nice one.

In fact, I think this one is nicer than the one shown on the CD.
Interesting that it is the same stamp and cancelled at the same angle. Could it have been on the same cover once? If not for the obvious difference in perfs, I would have wondered if it was the same stamp.

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SG203 p13 w33 678(1) Tooleybuc RRRRR

From Freeman CD:

Image

Image

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by MJ's pet »

rehautala, that is nicer than the one illustrated by Freeman. Well done.

Fortunately - for you - Hugh Freeman is no longer alive to wrench it from your collection. :D

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Last edited by MJ's pet on 09 Feb 2020 12:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by MJ's pet »

Tooleybuc - nearly in Victoria!

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by rehautala »

Thanks for the map. Nice to see where this is located.

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by muttly2011 »

johnrcrow wrote:20. Any ideas on this one?

I cannot match this to anything in book especially with the distinctive 2?


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This looks like it's 824, Ravensworth, rated RRR - everything shown matches perfectly except the missing 8!
It's possible that another stamp overlapped this one when it was postmarked, taking the 8 with it.

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Source: 'The Numeral Cancellations of New South Wales', Hugh Freeman, APR, Brusden-White, 2017.
Fair Dinkum Stamps - Specialising in stamps from early Australia and the colonies.
https://www.fairdinkumstamps.com/

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by johnrcrow »

Good spot mutty2011.

Thanks.

I searched for the rather distinctive 4 but did not find one.

You did and I tend to agree with you.

The rays arrangement and intersects with the numbers also add value to the assessment.

John

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by castores »

I have very few state stamps of Australia, but having received from Glen a 'Triumph' book which included these stamps my interest grew.

This thread is large and it is going to take quite some time to take even a small portion of it in. In saying that and I have no idea if this NSW postmark is imaged in this reference but if not here it is.

I assume this is '693' Vegetable Creek (later named Emmaville), 12 rays?
I am very naive in respect to Australian numerical postmarks but would appreciate any further information on it.

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New South Wales 2d 1882
SG 224ba pale blue, watermark 40, perf 13 x 10

At my best guess.

Seeing I can still edit this post, any ideas on this? I cannot make head or tail but some of you astonish me on what you can see (10 rays?).

Image
Last edited by castores on 16 Mar 2020 19:38, edited 2 times in total.
Australia : Islands : various countries : Thematics : etc

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Re: Australian States numeral postmarks/cancels resource thr

Post by Bunge »

castores, there are only 2 Types for 693, and only one with rays..

Yours is Type 3R12 - Rated R

I can give you no more information than that..

Cheers Bunge :P
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