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I stake claim on this thread as Property of the GB KGV 1d "Downey Head" stamp!
My journey into the land of the more "specialized" study of a particular stamp is just beginning, and I plan on making lots of mistakes along the way to becoming more knowledgeable, that unfortunately is the way I learn the best
I would like to exchange information on the different dies, various flaws, shades etc. with fellow collectors of this issue, with the eventual goal being an extremely useful reference thread dedicated to this issue. I know you folks are out there, and I truly hope that some of you can find the time to participate in this.
The first two stamps I would like to share I have identified as Die 1B, one a Harrison printing, the other a Somerset House printing.
The way I understand it is that the bottom margin of the Somerset House printings were either imperforate or had a single extension hole, while the Harrison printings had perforated bottom margins. Based on this information the stamp above left is a Harrison, with the right being a Somerset House, as it shows a clear example of the extension hole.
Both of these stamps have the large single crown watermark, perf 15X14, and are identified in the SG GB 4 Kings Specialized Catalogue as N8, this number replaces the standard SG329/31
Hi skilo54 your two control stamps IMHO are Harrison based on the following:
The stamps were generally printed by the firm Harrison and Son. However preliminary printings were also made by the government printers at Somerset House. The Somerset House printings can be identified from the controls which have an additional dot placed between the letter and the number.
BACK O' BOURKE wrote:Hi skilo54 your two control stamps IMHO are Harrison based on the following:
The stamps were generally printed by the firm Harrison and Son. However preliminary printings were also made by the government printers at Somerset House. The Somerset House printings can be identified from the controls which have an additional dot placed between the letter and the number.
Somerset House
HI Back O B.
Thanks for taking the time to add to this thread, and help build this thread 8)
The note that was used as the basis for my first (incorrect) observation is posted below:
I gather what I have done was to make an assumption based on this note = ass u me
Would I be correct in thinking that Harrison prints also had imperforate bottom margins then? I know that the perf. size of 15X14 on KEVII immediately identifies certain issues as Harrison only, does the same apply for this issue? Were Somerset House prints only die 1A?
I now realize the dot between the A & 11 is the clear identifier between these two printers, but seeing as there are other inking/printing issues with the margin printing on the imperforate margin stamp, I thought maybe the dot was not printed? Please see below:
I look forward to learning more about these stamps, Thanks!
Yes, very interesting, great work! I liked it so much I sent you a private email a few months back asking you for the offered PDF file of that tutorial, unfortunately I never heard back from you I gather that my email probably got filed in your junk email or something,
Two things I noticed and would like to talk about are:
BACK O' BOURKE wrote:
i)That there is no dot between the A and 11 on this Somerset House printing, and earlier you mentioned the dot as a determining factor of the Somerset House prints.
ii)The bottom margin is imperforate with the extension holes, which according to the SG catalogue is a determining factor with regards to identifying Somerset House prints.
My reason for mentioning these is that the stamp I initially described as a Somerset House shares both of these factors, yet you believe that my stamp is a Harrison print. I would really appreciate it if you could explain to me how you determined my stamp to be a Harrison. Does it have to do with the font used for the controls?
Here is a better scan of the stamp in question:
I have identified the "scratch to left of lions face" flaw as noted in the SG catalogue on this particular stamp and would value any opinions you may have on my ID of this.
Two things I noticed and would like to talk about are:
BACK O' BOURKE wrote:
i)That there is no dot between the A and 11 on this Somerset House printing, and earlier you mentioned the dot as a determining factor of the Somerset House prints.
ii)The bottom margin is imperforate with the extension holes, which according to the SG catalogue is a determining factor with regards to identifying Somerset House prints.
My reason for mentioning these is that the stamp I initially described as a Somerset House shares both of these factors, yet you believe that my stamp is a Harrison print. I would really appreciate it if you could explain to me how you determined my stamp to be a Harrison. Does it have to do with the font used for the controls?
Here is a better scan of the stamp in question:
I have identified the "scratch to left of lions face" flaw as noted in the SG catalogue on this particular stamp and would value any opinions you may have on my ID of this.
Thanks for your time,
Skilo54
"Scratch to left of lions face"- I think it is the scratch. This is my stamp:
This stamp is the other of my original pair that I previously posted, it has a catalogued flaw as well.
(No, the black mark isn't the rare "infected head wound" variety )
N8-d (white spot left of 'O' & above 'T') Die 1b, Wmk-Crown, Perf-15X14
Close up of the white spot left of 'O'
Close up of the white spot above 'T'
I believe that I have identified this correctly, but I look forward to hearing others opinions on this & seeing more scans of catalogued flaws on the GB KGV 1d Downey Head 8)
Very Nice Die II Blocks asmodeus, your first block with the pair of missing crosses is very interesting! 8) 8)
Have you ever considered giving it a nice bath in a cold salt-water bath with a squirt of palmolive? I think some of that staining may disappear if you decide to try and clean it. Not a criticism, just a suggestion
I look forward to some more scans of your 1d Downey Heads.
Yes, very interesting, great work! I liked it so much I sent you a private email a few months back asking you for the offered PDF file of that tutorial, unfortunately I never heard back from you I gather that my email probably got filed in your junk email or something,
Have a Good One,
Skilo54
Thanks for sending me your work Alastair! You really have done an excellent job and should be proud of your effort!
asmodeus wrote:Die II from Plate 2. See attached article from Mike Jackson (GB Journal):
Very Interesting Asmodeus! Thanks for sharing that 8) I did a quick scan of my Die 2's and haven't seen one for my own yet Nice One! You have some great blocks 8)
Here is something I would like to present on this thread, it is a sort of KGV 1d Downey Head Die 1b Superstamp, I have illustrated each SG catalogued flaw as noted in their specialized catalogue.
To accompany this for easy reference I created this:
I hope that my illustration is accurate, but please let me know if I have incorrectly represented any of the catalogued flaws, or any comment or criticisms you may have of this presentation. Thanks
Great work, Skilo54 I very much like seeing a maximum of flaws on the same stamp. That one must be worth a fortune
So you had fun with your favourite drawing tool. From looking at my 4 Kings specialised catalogue (13th edition 2009) it looks like SG also had to resort to same kind of thing!
Your rendering looks pretty accurate to me but it would appear to refer only to N8 (SG 329/31). You could also add the "white flaw above value" (N9f/N10f) which also concern die 1B.
As a suggestion, several flaws (in any stamps) are more easily identified when a comparison diagram/scan of the normal state is also shown. In the case of N8, I would recommend comparisons for flaws B, H, K and L (and perhaps also E).
I hope you keep up the excellent work. Obviously flaw K ("pale lion") would be more difficult to "fake". Perhaps you will even write a tutorial on this. That would be great!!!
I have gone through my Downey Heads and can only find one stamp with a flaw. It is die 2 with simple Cypher watermark (N12 SG 345).
The white "shading" behind the foreleg runs into the frame line. There is also a white mark at the back of the head, to the right of the ear. These are not recognised flaws in the SG specialised 13th edition so are probably not constant.
Alastair wrote:Great work, Skilo54 I very much like seeing a maximum of flaws on the same stamp. That one must be worth a fortune
So you had fun with your favourite drawing tool. From looking at my 4 Kings specialised catalogue (13th edition 2009) it looks like SG also had to resort to same kind of thing!
Your rendering looks pretty accurate to me but it would appear to refer only to N8 (SG 329/31). You could also add the "white flaw above value" (N9f/N10f) which also concern die 1B.
As a suggestion, several flaws (in any stamps) are more easily identified when a comparison diagram/scan of the normal state is also shown. In the case of N8, I would recommend comparisons for flaws B, H, K and L (and perhaps also E).
I hope you keep up the excellent work. Obviously flaw K ("pale lion") would be more difficult to "fake". Perhaps you will even write a tutorial on this. That would be great!!!
Thanks-a-lot Alastair, It was pretty fun to create, and I am glad you enjoy it as well!
The plan for me is to create a "Superstamp" for each of the dies, and post them on this thread. My next creation I am working on is part II of my first, so your point about the "white flaw above value" will most definitely be represented I have some figuring to do first though re: showing the "pale lion"
I also truly appreciate and really like your suggestions about the comparison scan, and I will try to incorporate them in my future posts.
It would be neat if I could create an image that showed the flaw when the mouse pointer arrow was over the area or the description text, and back to the normal state when the pointer was moved from it. 8)
Anyways, thanks for the compliments, and for contributing to this thread!
As I`ve seen you posting some Downey heads, I thought I might show you the ones I have and perhaps you`d be interested in them!? I never had the knowledge or time to study for shades, wmks or something else. I noticed one missing crown 1d one and there is one strange looking blue green 1/2d. I also have this postcard with a missing crown variety on it.
As I`ve seen you posting some Downey heads, I thought I might show you the ones I have and perhaps you`d be interested in them!? I never had the knowledge or time to study for shades, wmks or something else. I noticed one missing crown 1d one and there is one strange looking blue green 1/2d. I also have this postcard with a missing crown variety on it.
I think I`m giving away all my British material!
Greetings
Hi Josto! You have a very nice collection of Downey Heads there, and your Tuck's Illustrated Post Card is really sharp, having that nice example of the missing crown is Icing on the cake really! Thanks for adding them to this thread!
What you have is pretty much Exactly the type of addition I look for to add to my Downey Head Collection, so I am without a doubt, more than interested! Please email me directly if you are serious about coming up with a mutually beneficial arrangement, whether cash or trade for material that suits your collecting interests!
I look forward to hearing back from you, take care!
[quote="asmodeus"]No flaws or varieties but First Day Covers Downey Heads (postcards) Hi Asmodeus!
Now that I have picked myself up off the floor after that "right-hook" from Josto, followed by your "knock-out" punch!
Those Day of Issue postcards are really nice as well, no need for errors when you have those beauties! You truly have some remarkable holdings in your collection! Thanks for adding them to this thread! Those would be the crowning jewel to any Downey Head collection!
I have been working some more on my own collection, and will also be able to add to this thread in the next few days! I am finally in possession of a colour key, so my analysis of shade varieties has started.
asmodeus wrote:No flaws or varieties but First Day Covers Downey Heads (postcards) Hi Asmodeus!
Now that I have picked myself up off the floor after that "right-hook" from Josto, followed by your "knock-out" punch!
Those Day of Issue postcards are really nice as well, no need for errors when you have those beauties! You truly have some remarkable holdings in your collection! Thanks for adding them to this thread! Those would be the crowning jewel to any Downey Head collection!
I have been working some more on my own collection, and will also be able to add to this thread in the next few days! I am finally in possession of a colour key, so my analysis of shade varieties has started.
Have a Good One,
Skilo54
Oh great colour comparisons- I´m incompetent to specify colours......
1981 British Philatelic Exhibition - 70th Anniversary Mini-sheet #04401. A new addition to my collection and although not really "stamps", I absolutely love it and it looks killer in my George V album! 8)
Through my membership to the GBPS I have been fortunate to make contact with a fellow Canadian Collector of Downey Heads, and he only lives about an hour away! He tells me that we're some of the only ones in Canada!?! 8) His collection has won the R.A.G. Lee Cup and we plan on meeting sometime in the new year! I am really excited about this, and really look forward to discussing the various questions I have with him, particularly some of my shade identifications and uncatalogued errors.
I have started to prepare a virtual album for my Downey Head Collection. I really like the flexibility of using the computer to mess with the layout and adjust the text when need be without the need to handle my stamps. Here is a screen shot of an arrangement showing my copies of each of the different types of the Downey Head 1d. issue. These represent the Primary Catalogue listings, with each one having several sub-listings regarding shades, watermarks or plateflaws etc.
Last edited by skilo54 on 28 Dec 2010 09:32, edited 2 times in total.
Would you be interested in the Downey heads I`ve shown lately? If yes, just let me know about an offer. If not, I`ll give them away otherwise.
Greetings from Germany
Hi Josto,
Let me think about that for a seco-YES!!
I'll send you an email, and appreciate you thinking of me when you decided to get rid of your Downey Heads! I've been watching ebay like a hawk thinking you were going to list them there!
Now that I have shown the major types of 1d. Downey Head issue, I would like to share some basic information on identifying the different Die types. I hope the following information will be useful in helping identify the Downey's you may have.
Timeline of releases:
June 22 1911 - Die 1A - Issued on Coronation Day and met with public and professional criticism of the blotchy printing. This poor quality was due to the head being copied from a photograph wasn't really compatible with the Typographic printing process and was often blotchy. The following shows the key to identifying a Die 1A stamp from the other releases:
August 1911 - Die 1B - These fresh plates were made to answer the quality issues associated with the original dies. The dies were deepened but the improvements were still not up to the standards of those in charge or the public. The following shows the key to identifying a Die 1B stamp from the other releases:
January 1 1912 - Die 2 - In answer to the unsatisfactory results from Die 1B, and openly public criticisms of some of the design elements, a new die was produced. Die 2 was produced from Die 1A and several changes were made to try and improve the quality and public opinion of this issue. The following images shows the primary design difference between Die 1 and Die 2 stamps:
Thanks for having a look, I hope it helps! Good Luck with your Collection!
Hey Erik, Thanks for the offer! When those Machin Covers I sent arrive, my address is on the back of the envelope. If you feel like sending them my way that would be great, but if you want to hang onto them as a solid foundation of your own Downey Collection, that would be cool too! Those Machin Covers were a gift so don't feel obligated to send them my way!
p.s. - Did you win that Hong Kong lot on Stamporama? It looked like a nice one! 8)
Our fellow member Josto and I came to a mutually beneficial arrangement for this material, and I am over the moon! Thanks for putting these together and offering them to me Josto, I really appreciate it, and can't wait to include them in my Downey Collection!
If anyone else has some Downey Heads that they don't collect in their holdings, please feel free to contact me regarding a trade or straight-up purchase. I am always on the hunt!
Dummy stamps were submitted to the Post Office by De La Rue in a bid to retain the printing contract for the production of postage stamps.
On the 24th July 1911, Sir Evelyn De La Rue sent a pane of 48 impressions to the Post Office authorities. Within this pane, 36 impression had the Minerva head that is most often found on these dummy stamps - the other 12 impressions had the Downey Head and this was probably done for the purpose of comparison.
Enlargement from the top right of the block
Sorry for the quality of this scan. Tried several times and this was the best ...
I gather that my email probably got filed in your junk email or something, 
Nice One! You have some great blocks 8) 
